whichwayisup Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 You're welcome. You have alot going against you in this, not just the regular marital problems, you also have to contend with his religion too, so I'm sure this isn't easy at all...
Author daisygirl Posted March 11, 2008 Author Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) You're welcome. You have alot going against you in this, not just the regular marital problems, you also have to contend with his religion too, so I'm sure this isn't easy at all... YES, our cultural/religious differences make it hard, because those are hard to compromise on. He grew up a certain way, and while it may not be right or wrong, I don't necessarily agree on his beliefs. It's just too bad that it took me 5 years to realize that I don't want to compromise....that's one reason that I feel so guilty about all of this. Edited March 11, 2008 by daisygirl
whichwayisup Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 And sadly, it just might come down to a religious issue that can't be compromised on for either of you.
shockandawed Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Hi Daisy, Let me say I have read both of your threads and my heart truly goes out to you. I know full well the ups and downs and emotions involved with a divorce. I went through one four years ago after 18 years of marriage. I understand the well being of the posters encouraging you to try to save your marriage. In most cases, I agree. But I haven't seen anything here that indicates that it is indeed salvageable. His actions and your feelings are IMHO way too gone for any type of reconcilliation. How can you even want to attempt staying with someone who is telling you that it won't be for very long, just the next couple of years? You know, there is no perfect age for a child to be when the parents get divorced. His reaction to it will lie almost entirely on how his respective parents handle the situation. I certainly can't advocate staying together strictly for the sake of any child. The tensions, pressure and almost assuredly increased hostilities will be much more detremental to his development than an amicable and civil divorce. Your husband is strictly wanting to pass the blame on you at this point. As others have pointed out, his insults and actions are only anger at no longer being in a position to control you. He is simply wanting to get control back. I would also be interested in why he is entitled to tell you he wants a divorce, then order you to another room and tell you that you will have to be the one leaving. You know, there is no way you will lose your son without strong proof that you are an unfit mother. There is NOTHING that you have posted that would indicate even the slightest bit of this. Finally, I feel you are harboring too much guilt about the EA. First of all, nothing happened, and even if it did, it is not grounds to lose a child or have any rights of parenting diminished. I know because my ex had an actual affair. My initial reaction was I am going to take the kids, because I was hurt. Quick and honest advise from my attorney showed me that affairs have no legal implications on any custodial decisions. The EA didn't cause your divorce. The EA occured because your marriage was already suffering. The only question I see that you need to address in regards to the EA is, are your feelings for him a result of your misery in your marriage or did he really have the potential to be a so called soulmate? I don't want to confuse you more, but I have been single for nearly 4 years. Finding that person who you really connect with is extremely rare and I don't think he should strictly be discounted as a meaningless third party. Edited March 11, 2008 by shockandawed
Author daisygirl Posted March 11, 2008 Author Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Hi Daisy, Let me say I have read both of your threads and my heart truly goes out to you. I know full well the ups and downs and emotions involved with a divorce. I went through one four years ago after 18 years of marriage. I understand the well being of the posters encouraging you to try to save your marriage. In most cases, I agree. But I haven't seen anything here that indicates that it is indeed salvageable. His actions and your feelings are IMHO way too gone for any type of reconcilliation. How can you even want to attempt staying with someone who is telling you that it won't be for very long, just the next couple of years? You know, there is no perfect age for a child to be when the parents get divorced. His reaction to it will lie almost entirely on how his respective parents handle the situation. I certainly can't advocate staying together strictly for the sake of any child. The tensions, pressure and almost assuredly increased hostilities will be much more detremental to his development than an amicable and civil divorce. Your husband is strictly wanting to pass the blame on you at this point. As others have pointed out, his insults and actions are only anger at no longer being in a position to control you. He is simply wanting to get control back. I would also be interested in why he is entitled to tell you he wants a divorce, then order you to another room and tell you that you will have to be the one leaving. You know, there is no way you will lose your son without strong proof that you are an unfit mother. There is NOTHING that you have posted that would indicate even the slightest bit of this. Finally, I feel you are harboring too much guilt about the EA. First of all, nothing happened, and even if it did, it is not grounds to lose a child or have any rights of parenting dimenished. I know because my ex had an actual affair. My initial reaction was I am going to take the kids, because I was hurt. Quick and honest advise from my attourney showed me that affairs have no legal implications on any custodial decisions. The EA didn't cause your divorce. The EA occured because your marriage was already suffering. The only question I see that you need to address in regards to the EA is, are your feelings for him a result of your misery in your marriage or did he really have the potential to be a so called soulmate? I don't want to confuse you more, but I have been single for nearly 4 years. Finding that person who you really connect with is extremely rare and I don't think he should strictly be discounted as a meaningless third party. WOW! I just have to say, this is exactly what I am feeling, and your words are just way more profound than mine ever could be. Thank you for being so understanding, and not judging me (not saying that others are, though). I am truly miserable, but just feel so guilty for wanting out of a marriage where I am not being physically abused or cheated on. I have a lot I need to think about, and I hope IC will help me figure it all out. I don't think I should have to live like this. Thanks again for this great response! I always appreciate all responses, positive or negative, but yours just really struck me.... ETA: As for the EA....I wish I knew what to say about him....it's over at this time. We had never even met in person, so who knows what could have been. Had I met him at a different point in my life, I would have pursued it, in a heartbeat. Another thing I need to figure out in IC!! Edited March 11, 2008 by daisygirl
shockandawed Posted March 11, 2008 Posted March 11, 2008 Daisy, I appreciate your response. I don't respond to a ton of posts because I often don't have a clue how to help, but yours also struck a chord in me. You are correct, you don't deserve to live like this. There are many, many legitimate reasons for divorce other than infidelity and physical abuse. You obviously have emotional and physical needs that simply weren't being met. You made a mistake 5 years ago, it shouldn't have to be a life sentence. I might add, I think legal advise at this point is highly warranted, maybe even more so than IC. I think for you to clear your head and make intelligent decisions based more on facts than emotions, you need to know your legal rights. Again Daisy, I am not trying to tell you I have all the answers, but I have been in similar situations so at least I have a little experience here. I wish the best for you and please keep posting.
Author daisygirl Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Thanks to everyone for all the advice and input. I made a MC appt for us today, but we can't get in for a couple weeks. This is the last time, though. If he backs out again, I'm done. Oh, and shockandawed...I am consulting an attorney ASAP. H has already had a consultation with one, so I need to as well. Thanks for the advice on that ETA: Hey, this is my 100th post.....LOL Go me!! Edited March 13, 2008 by daisygirl
twice_shy Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 So, yesterday, H tells me that now he DOES want to try MC (we had an appt. yesterday and he told me to cancel it because he didn't want to try). He told me this was our last chance, but that he only wants to try for our son, not for me. He said he doesn't picture us being together forever, but thinks it would be better if we could try until our son is older (2-3 more years) so that our son will understand more of what's going on. I am so f-ing sick of this. I am to the point that I don't even want to do MC, especially if he just sees it as a temporary fix. Maybe I am selfish, but I don't want to be in a marriage where both of us don't see it lasting forever. What's the point? He told all of this to me right before he was leaving for the gym and asked me, "Do you want to try again, yes or no?" He said he needed an answer before he left or he'd take it as a "no". I said yes, but deep down, I didn't want to. I pretty much feel NOTHING for H right now. He was trying to kiss me and have sex with me and I wanted nothing of it. I was actually feeling relieved about the D, and now I feel uncomfortable about trying for a M that I don't really want anymore. Any thoughts?? You don't in any way entertain the idea of getting back together. Deep down he really probably doesn't want to be with you, but he isn't thinking clearly and is scared. And if you don't want it then for gods sake don't do it!! The best thing for you is to move on. And its definitely the best thing for him even though he doesn't realize it right now. No amount of MC in the world is going to keep him from reliving what you did and getting mad about it and throwing it in your face from time to time. The only way for him to truly get over what you did to him is for him to not be with you. That would be the best thing for the both of you.
Author daisygirl Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) You don't in any way entertain the idea of getting back together. Deep down he really probably doesn't want to be with you, but he isn't thinking clearly and is scared. And if you don't want it then for gods sake don't do it!! The best thing for you is to move on. And its definitely the best thing for him even though he doesn't realize it right now. No amount of MC in the world is going to keep him from reliving what you did and getting mad about it and throwing it in your face from time to time. The only way for him to truly get over what you did to him is for him to not be with you. That would be the best thing for the both of you. I didn't tell him about the EA. And I never will.... But, yes, we both agree that the only reason we are doing MC is for the sake of our son. H said he won't miss me if we get divorced. I can't say I won't miss him, after all, we've been together for 5 years, but I know I'll be ok. I often wonder if he just says those things to hurt me. But it doesn't hurt me. I'm glad he won't miss me. I don't think we make each other happy. We'll see what happens... Edited March 13, 2008 by daisygirl
twice_shy Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 I didn't tell him about the EA. And I never will.... Ah yes, thats right, I forgot. However it doesn't change the fact that it will be best for him for the both of you to move on even though he doesn't know of the EA and isn't thinking clearly right now. But, yes, we both agree that the only reason we are doing MC is for the sake of our son. Which is the wrong reason to stay together. I know that couples that go through this think that is a good reason to work things out, but it isn't. Staying together just for the kids will lead to problems of resentment later. H said he won't miss me if we get divorced. I can't say I won't miss him, after all, we've been together for 5 years, but I know I'll be ok. I often wonder if he just says those things to hurt me. But it doesn't hurt me. I'm glad he won't miss me. I don't think we make each other happy. Which brings me back to my original question, why do care what he thinks about you after this is over?
Author daisygirl Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 Which is the wrong reason to stay together. I know that couples that go through this think that is a good reason to work things out, but it isn't. Staying together just for the kids will lead to problems of resentment later. I agree with you, but I think *especially* because of his culture and background, he thinks it's better to stay for our son. I was ready to move on until Monday when he asked me to try again....but now, honestly, I feel worse than ever....like I'm faking it. I told him this, and he just got really pissed off and angry and then tells me to "just get out". I feel like MAYBE the MC will bring us both some closure. Of course, I could be wrong... Which brings me back to my original question, why do care what he thinks about you after this is over? I wish I had a good answer for this. I'm just one of those people who worries what other people think. I am going to talk about this in my IC. I need to get over my insecurities. But I'm starting to get better, at least when it comes to him. I know he's angry and hurt, but lately, he's saying some REALLY hurtful things, and it's driving me further and further away from him.
Author daisygirl Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 H and I mutually decided that we don't want to do MC. I am DEFINITELY continuning IC - it's really been great for me so far. As much I have been denying it, I now realize that I've been in a emotionally abusive marriage, and I know that I deserve better than that. H refuses to acknowledge this, and says the counselors are stupid and he doesn't need one. He said if I am out of his life, that will eliminate most of his stress. According to him, I am the reason he has anger problems. I cannot change how he feels, and I am tired of trying. I made an appointment to see an attorney next week for a free consultation. I just want to know what my rights are. I have no idea if I will be able to hire her or not, since I have no money in my name. Everything is in H's name. If she can't help me, then I will contact legal aid. Another thought - H and I had originally agreed that I would be the one moving out (w/our son) because I cannot afford the mortgage. Now, H said that I can stay here, he'll keep the house in his name, and I'll pay him rent. I'd still have to pay all the utlities, of course, as well. He said he's only willing to do this because of our son, which I understand. Now, this sounded like a great idea at first, because he said he'd keep the rent low for me, and then I wouldn't have to move our son to a new place. But, then he started saying he'd have a key, so he could come in anytime he wanted. He also said he'd bring his laundry over for me to do...WHOA!! Ummm, one of the reasons I want to leave him is because he is controlling, and then if he's going to be my "landlord" and I'll be doing his laundry....what does that sound like? Sounds like he'd still be in control. I can even see him trying to tell me who I could and couldn't have in the house. So as much as I love the idea of not having to move my son to a new apartment and buy all new furniture, etc, I think it'll be best in the long run for me to be self-sufficient and get my own place. Another problem though: still no job or even any leads. This is very discouraging. Hopefully, consulting at attorney will do some good to see where i stand on some things....I'll keep updating as much as I can
whichwayisup Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Wow, he's got some balls. Let you live in the house - Yet he can come and go whenever he wants and you get to do his laundry! Holy! I actually LOL for real when I just read that! Unbelievable. Fantastic that you are doing IC! He isn't willing to DO anything to change, then that's his problem. You concentrate on you and your son, make the transition easy for him. Keep looking for the jobs, ask friends/family if they hear of anything to let you know. Something WILL come your way eventually so don't feel discouraged. You're a smart woman and honestly, getting away from him WILL improve your frame of mind. I bet within afew months you'll feel happier and lighter in general and not feel that stress and being under his thumb.
ookla_2 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 H and I mutually decided that we don't want to do MC. I am DEFINITELY continuning IC - it's really been great for me so far. As much I have been denying it, I now realize that I've been in a emotionally abusive marriage, and I know that I deserve better than that. H refuses to acknowledge this, and says the counselors are stupid and he doesn't need one. He said if I am out of his life, that will eliminate most of his stress. According to him, I am the reason he has anger problems. I cannot change how he feels, and I am tired of trying. I made an appointment to see an attorney next week for a free consultation. I just want to know what my rights are. I have no idea if I will be able to hire her or not, since I have no money in my name. Everything is in H's name. If she can't help me, then I will contact legal aid. Another thought - H and I had originally agreed that I would be the one moving out (w/our son) because I cannot afford the mortgage. Now, H said that I can stay here, he'll keep the house in his name, and I'll pay him rent. I'd still have to pay all the utlities, of course, as well. He said he's only willing to do this because of our son, which I understand. Now, this sounded like a great idea at first, because he said he'd keep the rent low for me, and then I wouldn't have to move our son to a new place. But, then he started saying he'd have a key, so he could come in anytime he wanted. He also said he'd bring his laundry over for me to do...WHOA!! Ummm, one of the reasons I want to leave him is because he is controlling, and then if he's going to be my "landlord" and I'll be doing his laundry....what does that sound like? Sounds like he'd still be in control. I can even see him trying to tell me who I could and couldn't have in the house. So as much as I love the idea of not having to move my son to a new apartment and buy all new furniture, etc, I think it'll be best in the long run for me to be self-sufficient and get my own place. Another problem though: still no job or even any leads. This is very discouraging. Hopefully, consulting at attorney will do some good to see where i stand on some things....I'll keep updating as much as I can Daisy.... I know it must be hard, but isn't it also a relief now, knowing what you are moving toward? Imagine how your life will be, day to day, without worrying about him looking over your shoulder, commenting/criticizing about every move you make...I'm proud of you!! My take, for what it's worth, is this....get your son and get OUT of that house! NO WAY should you stay there, in a house that is in HIS name, and with him having access to it while you are away (or while you are there, for that matter)! (and I'm not even going to address the whole "do my laundry" thing because that's just ludicrous.) You don't want to "owe" him anything, and trust me, if he "lets" you stay in a house that is in his name, he will hold that over you, like he's just soooooo good to you, and you should be grateful to him. Screw that! I understand you need a job. There's no reason he can't leave the house temporarily, while you find a job and a place to live, and then you and your son move out... Just my two cents..
Author daisygirl Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Thank you, WWIU and ookla. I know staying in this house is not a good idea. We need to move on away from each other, besides being co-parents. BTW- I had a stomach bug Sunday and just got over it today. Well, now my son has it. I called H at work to let him know that he was throwing up. Guess whose fault it is? MINE. Yeah....H said it's my fault that he's sick and I should take better care of myself so that I don't get sick and in turn, our son won't get sick. He said I should feel guilty and since I don't acknowledge that it's my fault, that means I am not a good mother. WOW. Does he not realize how hard it is to see your little 2-year-old throwing up and crying???? Like I need to feel any worse about it. Oh, also, yesterday, he said that the reason I was sick was because God was punishing me for ruining our marriage. He said that because I have no job and no money (and because our son gets sick) that he will never let me have our son when we divorce. Can anyone tell me what WOULD happen if we were to D before I got a job? I have literally NOWHERE to go and no money in my name. Would my H get custody????
twice_shy Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Can anyone tell me what WOULD happen if we were to D before I got a job? I have literally NOWHERE to go and no money in my name. Would my H get custody???? don't know. It depends on the state and the judge. What would be so terrible about hiim getting custody? If I knew I couldn't take care of my kids, I'd want to do the right thing by them. Of course in my sitch, she was the adulterer and i still lose my kids because I am a male. Whoever said life wasn't fair was correct.
Author daisygirl Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 What would be so terrible about hiim getting custody? If I knew I couldn't take care of my kids, I'd want to do the right thing by them. Who said I couldn't take care of my son???? My H wouldn't know the first thing about what to do with our son. He already admitted that he'd have to bring his mom over, from another country, to get her to help him. He works 60+ hours a week, so basically, he wants to give custody to his mom, who speaks NO English and can't drive, and my son has only met once.
Findingme Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Who said I couldn't take care of my son???? My H wouldn't know the first thing about what to do with our son. He already admitted that he'd have to bring his mom over, from another country, to get her to help him. He works 60+ hours a week, so basically, he wants to give custody to his mom, who speaks NO English and can't drive, and my son has only met once. Daisy, I read this thread and was.... I can't even begin to describe how I felt. Doesn't matter anyway. This is my take. Your STBX saw you comin. He saw the vulnerability from miles away and knew he could control you, or thought he could. Been there done that and got the t-shirt! These are my words of advice.... do NOT do ANYTHING he can use against you! Even this site! Clear your cashe everytime you use your computer, if you think he isn't watching everything you are doing, think again. He is gathering amunition to use against you. Scary thought but it is important that you do everything in your power to protect you and your son. You are a capable strong woman and can raise your son without him, you do NOT need him! You can get a job. Do NOT listen to people who are giving you negative thoughts about raising your son. You can do it!!! Think of it this way, do you want your son to turn into a replica of your husband? I sure wouldn't want someone like that raising my child and teaching them those same values and thoughts that a woman isn't capable. F That! I do question why your name isn't on the house or anything? Did he buy this house before you got married? It makes no sence, don't know about your state but where I live when we bought our house I was a SAHM with no income and I still had to sign papers and the house still has my name attatched to it so I am curious how he was able to purchase a house without your signature? I can guarantee you that if he defaulted on the payments they'd dang sure come after you for them! Good luck sweety and PLEASE keep us posted! HUGZ!!!
Author daisygirl Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 ((Hugs)) to everyone for all the support!! It really means a lot!! Findingme... Thanks so much for your post. You say you've been in a similar situation? What happened? (sorry to be so nosy...lol) As far as everything being in his name....we bought the house after we were married, but I filed for bankruptcy (just for myself) back in 2003, so when we bought the house in 2005, we were told it was better to just have his name on everything because of my poor credit. He also owns his own business (in his name alone, of course), but that was also acquired after we were married. I have no idea if any of that matters since nothing is in my name....I guess I'll have to see what the atty says. Thanks again
twice_shy Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Who said I couldn't take care of my son???? Well, you did indirectly. No job, no money. How else you gonna do it? Now I have no doubt you'll get a job later and things will be fine. My H wouldn't know the first thing about what to do with our son. He already admitted that he'd have to bring his mom over, from another country, to get her to help him. He works 60+ hours a week, so basically, he wants to give custody to his mom, who speaks NO English and can't drive, and my son has only met once. Well then by his own admission I guess he shouldn't have custody. But I just find it hard to swallow that most women don't think the father should have custody. My case in point, I can take care of my kids a helluva lot better than my X, but because she is a woman, there was no way I was gonna win custody. My lawyer even told me, "unless you can prove beyond a doubt that she is unfit, you will lose by default"
twice_shy Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Daisy, I read this thread and was.... I can't even begin to describe how I felt. Doesn't matter anyway. This is my take. Your STBX saw you comin. He saw the vulnerability from miles away and knew he could control you, or thought he could. Been there done that and got the t-shirt! These are my words of advice.... do NOT do ANYTHING he can use against you! Even this site! Clear your cashe everytime you use your computer, if you think he isn't watching everything you are doing, think again. He is gathering amunition to use against you. Scary thought but it is important that you do everything in your power to protect you and your son. Unless she is a drug abuser or a prostitute, there isn't anything he can use against her. She could have sex with another man in their bed, tape it, send a copy to his lawyer, and it still doesn't matter with regards to the distribution of marital property or even custody.
twice_shy Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 ((Hugs)) to everyone for all the support!! It really means a lot!! Findingme... Thanks so much for your post. You say you've been in a similar situation? What happened? (sorry to be so nosy...lol) As far as everything being in his name....we bought the house after we were married, but I filed for bankruptcy (just for myself) back in 2003, so when we bought the house in 2005, we were told it was better to just have his name on everything because of my poor credit. He also owns his own business (in his name alone, of course), but that was also acquired after we were married. I have no idea if any of that matters since nothing is in my name....I guess I'll have to see what the atty says. Thanks again No. It doesn't matter if its in his name only. It is still marital property.
luvenoluveno Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Daisygirl, I will have to side with your soon-to-be-ex-husband on this one. You cheated on him. That itself is a gross lack of respect for the trust and sanctity of marriage(whatever that's worth these days). I know you've mentioned that he has many different traits that you found undesirable, like his distant nature and his controlling nature, but that still doesn't justify cheating and lying. What you should have done was confront him about it and try to get him to change. If he would not make an effort to change, then you could have gotten a divorce - doing so at that point would probably net you alimony, custody, and child-support. Seeing as how you cheated, and he knows(doesn't he?), you probably stand to gain nothing from your marriage: no alimony and no child-support seeing as how he will get custody of the child, since it was you who broke the contract. What I find most disconcerting is the multitude of posters who condone and even congratulate your cheating on him. This is reprehensible! They promote that lying to people is okay if they're not giving you what you want! Sickening! You made a bold-faced pre-meditated attempt to cheat and your biggest regret was ending the affair? You did this without concern for your child or your future in the marriage. Perhaps you are not mature enough to take care of a child since you cannot see the consequences of your actions. My only advice is to accept that you made a huge mistake and be haunted by the result so that you do not do the same thing to the next man.
SidelineH0 Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Daisygirl, I will have to side with your soon-to-be-ex-husband on this one. You cheated on him. That itself is a gross lack of respect for the trust and sanctity of marriage(whatever that's worth these days). I know you've mentioned that he has many different traits that you found undesirable, like his distant nature and his controlling nature, but that still doesn't justify cheating and lying. What you should have done was confront him about it and try to get him to change. If he would not make an effort to change, then you could have gotten a divorce - doing so at that point would probably net you alimony, custody, and child-support. Seeing as how you cheated, and he knows(doesn't he?), you probably stand to gain nothing from your marriage: no alimony and no child-support seeing as how he will get custody of the child, since it was you who broke the contract. What I find most disconcerting is the multitude of posters who condone and even congratulate your cheating on him. This is reprehensible! They promote that lying to people is okay if they're not giving you what you want! Sickening! You made a bold-faced pre-meditated attempt to cheat and your biggest regret was ending the affair? You did this without concern for your child or your future in the marriage. Perhaps you are not mature enough to take care of a child since you cannot see the consequences of your actions. My only advice is to accept that you made a huge mistake and be haunted by the result so that you do not do the same thing to the next man. Deep. And true.
Gunny376 Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 First off! I'm not a woman nor a Femi-Nazi! Second! @sshat got what he was after? A "Greencard" A legit way to get and stay in the USA! Just that Plain! Just that SIMPLE! Fact of the matter is? Whatever property you owned before the marriage under US law is yours after a divorce? Exceptions? You put the wifes name on the mortgage ~deed etc? In the U.S? In ninety percent of divorce cases? Women get custody 90% of the time? Primarly becuase men don't fight for custody? But? In the 10% of the cases where they do fight for custody? They get custody 90% of the time For a woman to lose custody of her child in the U.S? She would just about have to be Linda Loveless! Famened Porn Star!
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