General Jack Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 ... when it is completely lost and forgotten in your marriage? Is it possible? After months of thinking, frustration, even some depression, I think I have come to that one simple question. I am starting to think that ultimately, many of the woes in my marriage would be forgotten if my wife and I could just get some excitement back. The complications... while there is more to love than sex... sex is still very important. My wife is admittedly not a huge fan of sex... and I am a man with needs. We have had the sex discussion before, and I think my wife has given forth some effort... but sex is still boring and infrequent. Is there any hope?we have a 3 year old daughter... she is a sweetheart and a blessing, but she is still a 3 year old!
quankanne Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I know how you can really spice things up: Have your daughter walk in on you at an inopportune time! lol ... just kidding. Though it tends to give a bit of a rush thinking about getting caught having sex. not sure what to specifically advise on getting that feeling back, because it's different strokes for different folks. Physiologically/pheromonally, it's when my husband deems to wear his Clubman aftershave, that just brings all kinds of exciting feelings to mind. Polo makes me want to hump his leg, but alas, he refuses to wear it. unasked for but thoughtful gestures are good, too ... flowers from my husband, esp. the ones from the rosebushes, because it tells me that he's specifically had me in mind when he cut them, stuck them in a budvase and has given them to me.
smartgirl Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Jack, Every situation is different, but I and many others on this site have experienced a "rebirth" of the romantic and sexual aspects of their relationship. Things had gotten bad for us, but neither was really aware of it until my H had an A. I had gained weight and been uninterested in sex for a couple of years beforehand. This was very unlike me, but the pressures of my job, the house and very busy kids was taking a toll. My H has never been romantic to begin with and really did nothing to make me feel womanly or desirable with the exception of wanting to have sex. I needed the other stuff -- the talking, attention, wooing stuff. I felt neglected and so did he. I would say in our case, the following are some of the things that lead us to where we are today. o A lot of relationship work. Did a lot of reading and talking and came to a better understanding of what each other needed and how to give it to them. Came to a better understanding of ourselves as individuals first and then how what we did was impacting the other person. We didn't have to become different people, we just needed to put in some effort and switch off the autopilot we had placed our relationship on. Agreed that we needed to express our discontents rather than letting them silently accumulate into resentment. o I came to understand that the way I had "let myself go" made my H feel unloved, that I didn't care what he thought or that he was worth looking good for. I lost 43lbs, toned up and jazzed up my wardrobe a bit (mostly in the undergarment arena.) Let's face it, I wasn't happy with me either which also negatively impacted my libidio. o He started treating me with more regard - holding doors open, looking for things for us to do, etc. He took more time to notice me and show me that he noticed. o We go out together a lot, just us -- to dinner once a week, for coffee, lunch during the work week, on evening walks, etc. We hadn't done anything without the kids for years. We talk and we listen and we reconnected. Feeling like the other person was interested in us again -- not just sexually but in knowing what we thought about things or how we felt -- was moving. o Breaking out of long standing patterns in the bedroom. Basically, giving sex more attention with more foreplay and touching rather than the roll over, do it and roll back over that our sex life had become. I continue to read and come to better understandings of how couples can relate and I share that information with him. All this may not seem like much, but it is the difference between treating your spouse as a desirable person of the opposite sex that you are interested in impressing rather than as your roomate or business partner. It made a big, big difference for us. I wish like hell it hadn't taken his A to shake us out of our sleepwalking and refocus on each other.
whichwayisup Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Make your wife feel sexy and desirable. Let her know how hot she makes you feel, how much you love her, want her..Be romantic too. Do massages and lead up to it! Plan a weekend getaway - Arrange one of the grandparents to take your daughter so you and your wife can have a change of scenery. It also doesn't have to start off with the big bang of sex. Just being together, holding hands, talking intimately as a couple ALONE somewhere else will bring you closer as husband and wife, away from being in mommy and daddy mode. Like a bed and breakfast or a nice hotel in a nearby City from where you live. Hope this helps and if you want more idea's, for some reason today I'm full of them!
Kasan Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I don't know what more I can say to you, except I feel your frustration with your marriage. Can you get that love high back? Probably not, but I do know that you can get that "in love" feeling back, as someone who has experienced this phenomenon. How do you get it back? You forgive old resentments, hurts, and you learn to empathize and be grateful that sometimes you don't walk in your spouse's shoes. You learn to be kind to each other, say I'm sorry, and know that you will have each other's back no matter what. You put each other first, when all you want to do is flop in front of the tv. I don't know what any of us can say to give your magic light bulb moment. You know what I'm talking about--when it all becomes crystal clear and you know which decision you want to make. Unfortunately, this has to come from you. We can point fingers and place blame on why you are unhappy in your marriage, she's selfish, you're selfish, she's depressed, you're depressed, she doesn't want sex, you want more, on and on we can go. The bottom line is you need to decide what you want--to stay married or get divorced. Once your decision is made, then how to get where you need to be will be easy. I told you on your last thread, that we all have gone through what you are going through, we truly have. I know that you have moved and are isolated from family and friends, how about calling the local high school and getting names of babysitters (check their references) and take your wife out, but I would advise staying away from sporting events. Sometimes we make our marriages harder than they have to be. Wishing you your light bulb moment.
Mustang Sally Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) You have been given some very good suggestions here. I am not completely a success story yet, but here is what I have tried/am trying. Of late, it's been very positive for me: 1) Exercise and eating more healthy. When I go through periods of lower libido (and these times do still come and go, at least for me), I usually feel negatively about my physical appearance/desirability and that puts a real damper on my attitude about sex. Exercise really helps me get over that negative internal dialogue. And I'm not even talking about exercise programs with huge weight-loss goals. Just increasing my current state of fitness. This really seems to be a major factor in the strength of my libido. (Must be the endorphins? ) 2) Better communication with spouse. Meaning, trying to reconnect as friends, not necessarily even sappy/lovey/mushy talk. Just spending time (uninterrupted by children and other family-life drama) shooting the breeze about current events, work situations, theology/philosophy, and any other things that one or the other of us may have on our mind. It helps me remember when we were dating and we spent hours and hours talking about....well, just about anything and everything. Above all else, to have a successful intimate connection with my spouse, I have to have a friendship with him first. (Maybe I'm weird that way? ) Good luck. I hope it works out favorably for you. Edited March 7, 2008 by Mustang Sally
angie2443 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Do you help with the child and the house work? I'm not implying that you don't. This was a huge issue with me, though, and I think it is with many mothers of young children. Children and housework can be exhausting and many, not all, fathers seem to think that it is the woman's responsibility to take care of the majority of the house work. I remember going through months where I slept maybe 4 hours a night, while he slept 9. I remember the house bieng a mess and I couldn't keep up (we had three kids back to back) and I felt resentful because my husband would hardly lift a finger to help. I don't know if this has anything to do with your situation, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case it might help. Also, does she have time to go out and do things for herself? Does she get time for herself at home? Taking care of others can be draining, draining to the point where you have little energy for sex and other things. If this is the case for your wife, then giving her some time for herself could help out tremendously. It did for me.
angie2443 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Forgot to add, doing new and exciting things with your spouse can give you that "new love high". This has something to do with brain chemicals. I can't remember where I read this, though.
Author General Jack Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 Do you help with the child and the house work? I'm not implying that you don't. This was a huge issue with me, though, and I think it is with many mothers of young children. Children and housework can be exhausting and many, not all, fathers seem to think that it is the woman's responsibility to take care of the majority of the house work. I remember going through months where I slept maybe 4 hours a night, while he slept 9. I remember the house bieng a mess and I couldn't keep up (we had three kids back to back) and I felt resentful because my husband would hardly lift a finger to help. I don't know if this has anything to do with your situation, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case it might help. Also, does she have time to go out and do things for herself? Does she get time for herself at home? Taking care of others can be draining, draining to the point where you have little energy for sex and other things. If this is the case for your wife, then giving her some time for herself could help out tremendously. It did for me. Yes, I do a fair amount of housework. Bath and reading to my daughter (about an hour process) at least 2-3 nights a week, and another night or two a week I do one or the other. Wash evening dishes once or twice a week. Mow the lawn, take out the trash, sometimes vacuum, do my own ironing, and all of the little household repairs. Keep in mind I have the fulltime job and my wife is a stay home mom. Being a stay home mommy is definitely draining, no doubt. And my wife is pretty ambitious around the house some days... some days very lazy. Oprah, American Idol and a host of other reality shows get at least a couple of hours a day, usually more than that. Of course, then when I'm on the internet looking at sports... I'm "not present." One thing that you have touched on is a problem. I actively encourage my wife to get out, go out with friends (obviously I want the reciprocation). She typically counters with something like my friends can't go out because they have kids at home. It honestly comes across to me as excuses. However, she is actually going out today for the first time in probably a couple of months. I've stated in other threads, my wife really is a good woman. She just has very high expectations of herself and others around her. 8.5 years of marriage later, I'm weary. And having a crappy sex life doesn't help one bit.
Ocean-Blue Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Physiologically/pheromonally, it's when my husband deems to wear his Clubman aftershave, that just brings all kinds of exciting feelings to mind. Polo makes me want to hump his leg, but alas, he refuses to wear it. quankanne, this is so true! General Jack, is there a cologne that you wore from back in the day (when you two were dating)? Try dabbing a little of that on and see what reaction you get. I know for me, a familiar scent can drive me up the wall. It may remind your wife of the excitement and the passion you two shared when you began this journey.
whichwayisup Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Then she needs to take the kids out and do stuff with them. She isn't getting enough out of life to satisfy her. I'm not talking about being a mom, or doing housework, I mean living life OUTSIDE of the house. Is it possible that she's mildly depressed? She can get a sitter during the day for afew hours so she can go out, join a gym, do stuff. Or drop by WITH the kids and see her friends who are at home as well. From what you've said, she seems quite housebound and is alone alot, not much adult conversation...That isn't good, hense low self esteem and no sex drive.
Author General Jack Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 I know how you can really spice things up: Have your daughter walk in on you at an inopportune time! lol ... just kidding. Though it tends to give a bit of a rush thinking about getting caught having sex. not sure what to specifically advise on getting that feeling back, because it's different strokes for different folks. Physiologically/pheromonally, it's when my husband deems to wear his Clubman aftershave, that just brings all kinds of exciting feelings to mind. Polo makes me want to hump his leg, but alas, he refuses to wear it. unasked for but thoughtful gestures are good, too ... flowers from my husband, esp. the ones from the rosebushes, because it tells me that he's specifically had me in mind when he cut them, stuck them in a budvase and has given them to me. Ha ha on the daughter walking in! I do the surprise flower arrangements from time to time, maybe every couple of months or so...?
Author General Jack Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 Jack, Every situation is different, but I and many others on this site have experienced a "rebirth" of the romantic and sexual aspects of their relationship. Things had gotten bad for us, but neither was really aware of it until my H had an A. I had gained weight and been uninterested in sex for a couple of years beforehand. This was very unlike me, but the pressures of my job, the house and very busy kids was taking a toll. My H has never been romantic to begin with and really did nothing to make me feel womanly or desirable with the exception of wanting to have sex. I needed the other stuff -- the talking, attention, wooing stuff. I felt neglected and so did he. I would say in our case, the following are some of the things that lead us to where we are today. o A lot of relationship work. Did a lot of reading and talking and came to a better understanding of what each other needed and how to give it to them. Came to a better understanding of ourselves as individuals first and then how what we did was impacting the other person. We didn't have to become different people, we just needed to put in some effort and switch off the autopilot we had placed our relationship on. Agreed that we needed to express our discontents rather than letting them silently accumulate into resentment. o I came to understand that the way I had "let myself go" made my H feel unloved, that I didn't care what he thought or that he was worth looking good for. I lost 43lbs, toned up and jazzed up my wardrobe a bit (mostly in the undergarment arena.) Let's face it, I wasn't happy with me either which also negatively impacted my libidio. o He started treating me with more regard - holding doors open, looking for things for us to do, etc. He took more time to notice me and show me that he noticed. o We go out together a lot, just us -- to dinner once a week, for coffee, lunch during the work week, on evening walks, etc. We hadn't done anything without the kids for years. We talk and we listen and we reconnected. Feeling like the other person was interested in us again -- not just sexually but in knowing what we thought about things or how we felt -- was moving. o Breaking out of long standing patterns in the bedroom. Basically, giving sex more attention with more foreplay and touching rather than the roll over, do it and roll back over that our sex life had become. I continue to read and come to better understandings of how couples can relate and I share that information with him. All this may not seem like much, but it is the difference between treating your spouse as a desirable person of the opposite sex that you are interested in impressing rather than as your roomate or business partner. It made a big, big difference for us. I wish like hell it hadn't taken his A to shake us out of our sleepwalking and refocus on each other. Lots of good ideas here. The need for more effort from both of us is key. What I worry is that I may be expecting things of my wife that go against her very nature... i.e. to chill out more, or have more sex drive. Is it possible that we could be investing effort in something that really isn't meant to be? I don't feel like its fair for me to expect her to be someone she is not. We used to have sex more... but she'll even admit it was the bait on the lure prior to marriage. Similarly, the poetry I used to write for her... tapered quite a bit after we tied the know. But this leads to questions of whether or not we should have gotten married in the first place and I don't want to get into that yet. What is interesting... I used to work much longer hours and spend more nights out of town. Finally made it to the point where I could cash in my chips and take a less stressful, less demanding job with no financial sacrifice. And what happens... more time with each other turns out to only make me more discontent!
angie2443 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Unlike a typical 9 to 5 job which last 8 hours or so, the child care/house work is 24/7. When you have a younger child, sometimes, it never ends. Anyways, I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't help, just throwing out a suggestion in case it might work for you. I hope this next question isn't too personal. You say your sex life is pretty bad. Do you spend time warming your wife up anymore? It seems like so many men, once they've been with a woman for awhile, forget foreplay. A woman needs this at least once in a while to help get her in the mood. Again, I'm not saying that you do this, just throwing a suggestion in case it applies to you.
angie2443 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 You might have said in one of your post already, if so, ignore this question. Can you pinpoint the year at least when your sex life took a turn for the worse?
Author General Jack Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 Make your wife feel sexy and desirable. Let her know how hot she makes you feel, how much you love her, want her..Be romantic too. Do massages and lead up to it! Plan a weekend getaway - Arrange one of the grandparents to take your daughter so you and your wife can have a change of scenery. It also doesn't have to start off with the big bang of sex. Just being together, holding hands, talking intimately as a couple ALONE somewhere else will bring you closer as husband and wife, away from being in mommy and daddy mode. Like a bed and breakfast or a nice hotel in a nearby City from where you live. Hope this helps and if you want more idea's, for some reason today I'm full of them! More good comments and thank you. Now I must vent more, but this could be good, therapeutic. Massages to my wife are only valid if they end as a massage. Otherwise, it would be considered foreplay. My wife doesn't like foreplay. Sex is get in, get out, glad its over. At least she finally stopped saying "lets get this over with." When I slap her on the rear end, I'm being disrespectful or crass. I tell her some women would love to have their husband make an overt sexual gesture ( I know some personally), but that doesn't get me anywhere. I understand she wants romance and thats fine... but it has to be inspired. I used to be a hopeless romantic, but now I'd rather go to the dentist than have to compose poetry for her.
Author General Jack Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 Then she needs to take the kids out and do stuff with them. She isn't getting enough out of life to satisfy her. I'm not talking about being a mom, or doing housework, I mean living life OUTSIDE of the house. Is it possible that she's mildly depressed? She can get a sitter during the day for afew hours so she can go out, join a gym, do stuff. Or drop by WITH the kids and see her friends who are at home as well. From what you've said, she seems quite housebound and is alone alot, not much adult conversation...That isn't good, hense low self esteem and no sex drive. She actually does get out quite with my daughter - dance class and the gym twice a week, lunch at Chick-fil-A every friday. To her credit, she wants to be with me more, wants to have conversation with me... etc. And sometimes she's fine... and sometimes she is so difficult that I don't enjoy being around her. You are correct on the adult conversation, she has some, but needs more.
whichwayisup Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 When I slap her on the rear end, I'm being disrespectful or crass This made LOL for real as I'm the ass slapper around here. Drives my hubby nuts as I am always grabbing him and touching his balls when he walks by me. Afew weeks ago he actually called me a pig! I laughed, and took it as a compliment. Anyway, she obviously doesn't find that stuff funny let alone a sexual turn on. Instead of grabbing her, give her a kiss, squeeze her hand. Hug her. So maybe for a little while, do the massage thing and don't think it will lead to sex. If she can relax and enjoy, maybe the next time she'll do you. Might as well give that a try? Have you really sat down with her and told her how much sex means to you? Have you two done any couples counselling?
Author General Jack Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 quankanne, this is so true! General Jack, is there a cologne that you wore from back in the day (when you two were dating)? Try dabbing a little of that on and see what reaction you get. I know for me, a familiar scent can drive me up the wall. It may remind your wife of the excitement and the passion you two shared when you began this journey. This would be an excellent idea if my wife had a sex drive. She actually had me convinced for a while that women don't like sex. While it obviously happens in some cases, I no longer believe that is a general rule.
quankanne Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 husband (retired) will call me up at work to relate some quirky bit of news he just heard. Or gossip. Which is a nice way to break up a boring work day. if he hears me laughing when I'm reading one of my many books, he'll ask ... so I've gotten into the habit of reading aloud passages from the books when it's something I find particularly funny or odd. I guess in either case, it's a sense of giving 'self' to one another, and maybe this is what your wife yearns for? You sound like a good husband, but it's entirely possible that like you, she feels things have gotten to a blah point, but doesn't know how to communicate that. as for the sex bit, well, if she's worried that everything's gonna lead to doing the deed, why not just isolate certain actions, like planting a hot steamy kiss on her mouth or neck, then just walking away with a wicked smile on your face? That, to me, shows a man appreciates just how sexy his woman is and oh, how that can lead to a mental pick me up. Handholding, touching, those kinds of things are considered "making" love in alternate ways in my book.
angie2443 Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Then she needs to take the kids out and do stuff with them. She isn't getting enough out of life to satisfy her. I'm not talking about being a mom, or doing housework, I mean living life OUTSIDE of the house. Is it possible that she's mildly depressed? She can get a sitter during the day for afew hours so she can go out, join a gym, do stuff. Or drop by WITH the kids and see her friends who are at home as well. From what you've said, she seems quite housebound and is alone alot, not much adult conversation...That isn't good, hense low self esteem and no sex drive. I agree with this. With my first child, I nursed and was up all night. I was so exhausted, that I had no life outside of the house. I lost my identity as an adult, sexual person. My husband didn't help around the house much and I worked part time, so I had no time for myself. Finally, I told my husband that I was joining a gym and he was going to have to take care of the child and the house while I was gone. Having those three days a week that I got away from the husband and kids was just what I needed. I had much more energy to give to everyone and was a more interesting person when I was given that time just for myself.
Mustang Sally Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Ok. I'm going to take a completely different approach here, and thow something else out there. Jack. You say your wife doesn't like and has never really liked sex. Could it be that sex just isn't that GOOD for her? I used to have this problem. I blamed my husband for the lack of GOOD for years. I think in retrospect that he definitely did shoulder part of that responsibility, in our situation. But the true breakthrough for me came when I finally decided that it was really MY RESPONSIBILITY to figure out how to make sex GOOD for me - not just him. I embarked on a personal journey to enhance my own sexuality, if you will (sounds completely cheese-filled, I know, but it's true). I finally just got damn fed up with the unsatisfying aspect of our sex life. Sex was a complete chore back then. I was tired from child-rearing and other life-responsibilities. I felt objectified by my husband. I felt like all he wanted was a hole to pork. I didn't take into consideration that the act of having sex was an important expression of love and commitment to him (as a male person). I did a lot of reading of some very helpful and empowering books on women and their sexuality and now I'm a very different (and happier with myself in all things sexual) woman. I dunno. Just a thought. I mean, hell. Sex feels good, if done (and participated in) correctly. Who wouldn't want to do it all the time? You know?
Author General Jack Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 This made LOL for real as I'm the ass slapper around here. Drives my hubby nuts as I am always grabbing him and touching his balls when he walks by me. Afew weeks ago he actually called me a pig! I laughed, and took it as a compliment. Anyway, she obviously doesn't find that stuff funny let alone a sexual turn on. Instead of grabbing her, give her a kiss, squeeze her hand. Hug her. So maybe for a little while, do the massage thing and don't think it will lead to sex. If she can relax and enjoy, maybe the next time she'll do you. Might as well give that a try? Have you really sat down with her and told her how much sex means to you? Have you two done any couples counselling? Yes, she asks me to just hug her more, and I do. Still have to get the slap in from time to time, but I listen. Massages don't lead to sex, thats almost a standing rule. Shame on me for trying that in this house. We have talked about sex, and to her credit, we actually had a couple of experiences that weren't in/out/over. But it really goes against her nature, which again is very strange because her mom and sister are both very sexual people. Yes, she needs more from me... but it leads me back to "are we really compatible or just pretending, forcing it to work."
quankanne Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 But it really goes against her nature, which again is very strange because her mom and sister are both very sexual people. that's an interesting comment. Do you think subconsciously she's chosen not to express herself that way so she can be different/stand apart from them?
Author General Jack Posted March 8, 2008 Author Posted March 8, 2008 Ok. I'm going to take a completely different approach here, and thow something else out there. Jack. You say your wife doesn't like and has never really liked sex. Could it be that sex just isn't that GOOD for her? I used to have this problem. I blamed my husband for the lack of GOOD for years. I think in retrospect that he definitely did shoulder part of that responsibility, in our situation. But the true breakthrough for me came when I finally decided that it was really MY RESPONSIBILITY to figure out how to make sex GOOD for me - not just him. I embarked on a personal journey to enhance my own sexuality, if you will (sounds completely cheese-filled, I know, but it's true). I finally just got damn fed up with the unsatisfying aspect of our sex life. Sex was a complete chore back then. I was tired from child-rearing and other life-responsibilities. I felt objectified by my husband. I felt like all he wanted was a hole to pork. I didn't take into consideration that the act of having sex was an important expression of love and commitment to him (as a male person). I did a lot of reading of some very helpful and empowering books on women and their sexuality and now I'm a very different (and happier with myself in all things sexual) woman. I dunno. Just a thought. I mean, hell. Sex feels good, if done (and participated in) correctly. Who wouldn't want to do it all the time? You know? Some very good points there... particularly on figuring out how I can make her discover how to make sex more enjoyable for herself. And the last part... I agree. And I'm 32, still fairly young, but not really young. Wise enough to know that you live once and should be happy in life, while keeping those who love you happy at the same time. And scared that I could waste the next several years of my prime unhappy if something doesn't change.
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