men and porn

[JerseyShortie]

Again Lucrezia, you are picking and choosing where you best want to apply the Collidge effect to your argument. You want to apply it to your argument for porn, but you want to apply it to real life and say that men aren’t looking for new women. When that is EXACTLY what men are doing when they choose to look at porn and have a real life relationship with one women they claim to be committed to, at the same time. That is exactly what porn enables men to do. It enables them to vicariously live out their desire for more and more and more new women, a never ending feeding that no one real life woman can complete with, while sustaining a partnership to one woman so that he can maximize the best of both words. There is no true commitment there. It is easy to make a commitment when you can vicariously feed it and supplement it with something like porn. There is no real sacrifice a man is making out of respect for his SO. It’s great for men, not so great for all the women out there that want a truly committed partner. They get something taken away from them and their relationship under the guise of a man’s needs obviously being more important then a woman’s.

 

I have no problem with a man wanting a variety of women. But don’t get into a relationship, and then say you want both the relationship and a variety of women. Because one completely discounts the other. And if men wonder why women are so insecure about this, it is because many men obviously aren’t participating in their relationships in a way that makes a woman feel secure, loved and happy. And that is the real fault here. There is a behavior going on that seems to cause an awful lot of women uncertainly and I don’t think they are so far fetched in feeling that way.

 

Did it effect sex with my partner? Nope. Because it had nothing to do with him. It was my own private time with me and my toys. Was he threatened? Not at all. Why would he? He's a man, he understands.

 

I think most women tend to interconnect their lives and most men tend to separate them in neat little boxes, and somewhere in the middle of that is the truth. To say it has nothing to do with your partner would be just as false to say that it had everything to do with your partner. [/FONT

 

It isn't a lack of attraction, so much as it is a separation of masturbation from sex. Men respect their partners, and don't usually like to have them reduced to porn. Porn is just that - porn. Not something you snuggle up with, fall in love with, spend your life with - just a tool. Who wants their girlfriend to be a tool?

 

If you go by that theory then men shouldn’t want to have hard, hot dirty sex with their wives/girlfriends either. And that would be completely ridiculous! I can’t speak for all women but I know for myself that I love knowing he is so attacted to me that he wants to hump me like a wild animal. And within a relationship, if you really care about someone, you can have hot dirty sex without being just a “tool”. In turn, what woman wants to see her man using x amount of women in movies or whatever use women as “tools”? I certainly don’t.

 

The spank bank women aren't even women really (not meant in a demeaning way - but I know girls in the 'business' and the ones I know all know the deal and don't feel demeaned or humiliated - it is hard work, but they like the paycheck)

 

Again, your arguments seem to contradict each other. First you say these women are just a “tool” for a man’s masturbation use then you ask what woman would want to be her man’s “tool”, insinuating that that is demeaning in itself. Then you say these women aren’t really even women and that they aren’t being demeaned but they are treating as “tools”, as you said before and implied that no woman should want to be treated that way. It seems your argument changes to address whatever point at time you are making.

 

It actually is very demeaning to women. If there was medium that women had that equaled porn, and treated men the same way, men wouldn’t tolerate it. Receiving a paycheck and doing something voluntarily doesn’t mean you aren’t being demeaned and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't demeaning to women as a whole. A man wouldn't want to see anyone he really loved and cared for in a porn for the exact reason it bothers women, because it is demeaning.

 

I think there are two sides here and there are women that like doing it, I also think there are women that do it because they are lost souls. Most normal women don’t want to do porn for the simple fact that it is demeaning and people do look down on it. But overall, my concern is not for the woman in the porn. It is for my man who likes watching women used, treated like recycled garbage and demeaned. What does that say about my man

 

Men love their women. They also have that private and taboo time of masturbation that predates even their sexual life - back to being really young and filching a Playboy and feeling an orgasm and ejaculation for the first time.

 

I agree that a man’s stronghold on porn dates back to when they were boys. Sadly, men rather defend their porn over their own women and it is very telling about what is more important to men. I am sure men love their women, but men also love their porn and want to use it in tandium with their relationship. And the only person that is fair to is the man. If men loved their women more, then this would be a no brainer and so many men wouldn't work so hard to defend it. The truth is they do, so it easy to see how the porn apparently is just as important as the real life person. It says something about priorties that is rather messed up

 

I will say this - a man is not a woman with male body parts. They think differently, they act/react differently, their bodies and body systems work differently. I think sometimes that women don't really want a man. They want a woman with male parts. Someone who doesn't have that pesky testosterone problem that makes them want to masturbate and fantasize about things other than the person they are committed to

 

Well, I love that men are men. Otherwise I would date women. But is a struggle sometimes and hurtful for women when their man uses all that sexual energy against you, favoring another woman at the time. All I think many women are asking for is more self control. You mention about being more sensitive to men and their porn use, but you don’t apply that same theory to women who struggle with their partners porn use. You say something along the lines of being more understanding of men, but when are men more understanding of women? At the end of the day the porn always wins and so does the man and the woman gets screwed over for the porn.

 

You can't just choose the parts of a man you want, and expect him to ditch all the others.

 

No one is expecting that! I think women would just like to see more self control. And I don't think many men practice self control when you have something like porn in the variety and amount that we do today. It really sucks and really hard being a woman because at the end of the day, the world still faovrs men and not even our own men stand up for us. They stand up for the porn.

Edited March 13, 2008 by JerseyShortie

[LucreziaBorgia]

There really isn't much I can say to that, except that you feel that you are right. I can understand that. Many women think like you do. Men (and women like me) generally don't.

[malaclypse]

When that is EXACTLY what men are doing when they choose to look at porn and have a real life relationship with one women they claim to be committed to, at the same time. That is exactly what porn enables men to do. It enables them to vicariously live out their desire for more and more and more new women, a never ending feeding that no one real life woman can complete with, while sustaining a partnership to one woman so that he can maximize the best of both words. There is no true commitment there. It is easy to make a commitment when you can vicariously feed it and supplement it with something like porn. There is no real sacrifice a man is making out of respect for his SO. It’s great for men, not so great for all the women out there that want a truly committed partner. They get something taken away from them and their relationship under the guise of a man’s needs obviously being more important then a woman’s.

 

Sorry, but this is crap. And I think it's actually demeaning to women to put porn and a real-life partner on the same level.

 

Where did you get this crazy idea that commitment to a relationship is in any way connected to the use of porn? Seriously, if a girl gets jealous over some media the problem is likely her self-esteem...

 

And what if the porn the man watches is home-made porn with the partner? Does this change anything?

 

And if men wonder why women are so insecure about this, it is because many men obviously aren’t participating in their relationships in a way that makes a woman feel secure, loved and happy.

Exactly. If a woman gets upset about male porn consumption, there's likely to be a lot of other problems in the R already.

 

In turn, what woman wants to see her man using x amount of women in movies or whatever use women as “tools”? I certainly don’t.

Oh come on, 'healthy' porn use is never a replacement for real sex, it's just for this times where the partner is not around.

 

Again, your arguments seem to contradict each other. First you say these women are just a “tool” for a man’s masturbation use then you ask what woman would want to be her man’s “tool”, insinuating that that is demeaning in itself. Then you say these women aren’t really even women and that they aren’t being demeaned but they are treating as “tools”, as you said before and implied that no woman should want to be treated that way. It seems your argument changes to address whatever point at time you are making.

They are a tool, in the sense that when watching porn, the porn is there for selfish satisfaction. This is completely different for real sex. The partner's feelings and excitement and satisfaction are a very important part of the whole.

 

It actually is very demeaning to women. If there was medium that women had that equaled porn, and treated men the same way, men wouldn’t tolerate it. Receiving a paycheck and doing something voluntarily doesn’t mean you aren’t being demeaned and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't demeaning to women as a whole. A man wouldn't want to see anyone he really loved and cared for in a porn for the exact reason it bothers women, because it is demeaning.

Hmm what about gay porn?

 

I think there are two sides here and there are women that like doing it, I also think there are women that do it because they are lost souls. Most normal women don’t want to do porn for the simple fact that it is demeaning and people do look down on it.

Again, what about home-made porn, where there is no financial motive and no outside pressure?

 

Sadly, men rather defend their porn over their own women and it is very telling about what is more important to men. I am sure men love their women, but men also love their porn and want to use it in tandium with their relationship. And the only person that is fair to is the man. If men loved their women more, then this would be a no brainer and so many men wouldn't work so hard to defend it. The truth is they do, so it easy to see how the porn apparently is just as important as the real life person. It says something about priorties that is rather messed up

Where did you get this crazy idea that men would defend porn over their women? Ok, none of my gfs ever objected to porn use (they liked it themselves), but if she came and asked me to stop, that's a no-brainer...

 

At the end of the day the porn always wins and so does the man and the woman gets screwed over for the porn.

It really sucks and really hard being a woman because at the end of the day, the world still faovrs men and not even our own men stand up for us. They stand up for the porn.

You must have dated some very screwed up men... =/

[JerseyShortie]

Sorry, but this is crap. And I think it's actually demeaning to women to put porn and a real-life partner on the same level.

 

Well, that is what it feels like men do. Because men are always defending their porn use and using it in tandium to their real life realtionship.

 

Where did you get this crazy idea that commitment to a relationship is in any way connected to the use of porn? Seriously, if a girl gets jealous over some media the problem is likely her self-esteem...

 

Hey, I got self-esteem issues and I admit it. But how can you expect that with as many men that spend time looking and searching out porn while in relationships with a real woman isn't going to effect their SO or the security of the relationship, isn't fair. I use to be very confident about who I was and thought I was pretty enough. But after having enough relatoinships with men where men just never seem happy with what they have and have to incorperate porn into their relatiolnship, it is disheartening, frustrationg and defeminizing. Not to mention the disrespect with which porn treats women. It's taken a toll on my self esteem and I admit it. Men aren't effected by it in the same way because porn isn't about making super impossible fantasy men that do super impossible stuff and always are young, look good and the million other fake aspects that deny any aspect of what makes a woman a real woman with feelings other then spreading her legs.

 

 

 

And what if the porn the man watches is home-made porn with the partner? Does this change anything?

 

Of course it does. If it's between him and his partner, that is a completely different ball game.

 

 

Exactly. If a woman gets upset about male porn consumption, there's likely to be a lot of other problems in the R already.

 

Such as his porn consumption in itself.

 

 

Hmm what about gay porn?

 

What straight male is lookign at gay porn and getting off on it?

 

 

Where did you get this crazy idea that men would defend porn over their women?

 

All the time, they justify it and excuse it.

[tanbark813]

JS, get off your man-hating kick. A lot of women watch porn too. And it's tandem not "tandium".

[GoodOnPaper]

I think there is a definite distinction between compulsive and non-compulsive use of porn.

 

Sometimes, men just need a physical release when their partner is not there. Porn provides great visual stimulation. I've read that women who have had testosterone treatments gain an appreciation for this need (for release, not necessarily porn).

 

For some men, there are more compulsive aspects of using porn that can impact a relationship. Certainly, there are different circumstances in different relationships. In my case, I was frustrated with my lack of success in attracting women, and porn seemed to compensate somewhat by giving me a little of what I was missing out on. What I've learned over the years is that I haven't accepted my own darker/wilder sexual desires -- early on, I somehow developed the notion that shy, nerdy types like myself weren't "allowed" to have those. So instead of being open with myself and my partner about this side of me, it is manifested through porn use, frequency varies.

 

To the OP, your boyfriend's defensiveness at getting caught is probably a bigger red flag than the porn use itself.

[JerseyShortie]

JS, get off your man-hating kick. A lot of women watch porn too. And it's tandem not "tandium".

 

I don't hate men. Why do you think that? Just because I think porn sucks and it sucks that men have to watch it while being in relationships?

 

Funny though how you say I hate men, yet all the men out there that like seeing Housewife Sl*ts 1000000, don't hate women. Porn treats women disrespectfully like used garbage only good for spreading their legs, and yet you don't say men hate women. When if you were to guy by porn, a medium men love, it doesn't exactly look like men respect women very much.

 

Thanks for the spelling correction though. I suck at spelling.

[malaclypse]

Well, that is what it feels like men do. Because men are always defending their porn use and using it in tandium to their real life realtionship.

 

Again, it is so very wrong to put porn and a real-life woman on the same level. I'm sorry if you think like that, this is a very destructive delusion.

 

I use to be very confident about who I was and thought I was pretty enough. But after having enough relatoinships with men where men just never seem happy with what they have and have to incorperate porn into their relatiolnship, it is disheartening, frustrationg and defeminizing.

Does this also apply to non-porn movies? I mean, there are some really beautiful girls in e.g. hollywood movies. Does it also make you bad if a man wants to incorporate normal movies into his life?

 

Such as his porn consumption in itself.

Ok, where's the border? Is masturbation without porn ok? What about masturbation with fantasies of other women? What about playboy magazine?

 

What straight male is lookign at gay porn and getting off on it?

Don't change the topic. This was about the demeaning effect of porn.

 

If there was medium that women had that equaled porn, and treated men the same way, men wouldn’t tolerate it. Receiving a paycheck and doing something voluntarily doesn’t mean you aren’t being demeaned and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't demeaning to women as a whole.

So, what about gay porn, now? It is a medium that treats men the same way normal porn treats women...

[tanbark813]

I don't hate men. Why do you think that?

 

Because you keep focusing on men and can't seem to get it through your head that women watch porn too. You also think men equate porn with real life women which is ridiculous. You don't know the first thing about how men think and don't seem to be interested in listening.

[JerseyShortie]

Because you keep focusing on men and can't seem to get it through your head that women watch porn too.

 

A) Women watch it but not to the extent that men do.

B) I don't date women so OBVIOUSLY, when a man watches it is more hurtful. Not entirely equal but very true.

C) Women don't like seeing men degraded to nearly the same extent that men like seeing women degraded. What does that say about how men feel about women?

 

You also think men equate porn with real life women which is ridiculous.

 

You're right. Porn gets to be men's fantasy that they long for and the real life woman gets to be the one he has sex with after getting off to his fantasy on what he really wants.

 

 

You don't know the first thing about how men think and don't seem to be interested in listening.

 

I am interested in listenting, I just don't always agree. I can very easily say the same of you. You don't know the first thing about how women think and that you don't seem very interesting in listening or understanding.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Again, it is so very wrong to put porn and a real-life woman on the same level. I'm sorry if you think like that, this is a very destructive delusion.

 

Well that is what men do! Because they will defend porn all the time and not eve get any closer to understanding why it is hurtful. Men sometimes even put the porn above the real life women since in the porn it's all about what men wish women were really like that most real life women just can't meet men's expectations.

 

 

Does this also apply to non-porn movies? I mean, there are some really beautiful girls in e.g. hollywood movies. Does it also make you bad if a man wants to incorporate normal movies into his life?

 

First, I never said men were "bad". But I won't pretend they are perfect or don't sometimes need to address certain behaviors. Second, non-pron movies don't fall into the same catogory as porn movies do, for me at least. Non-porn movies are more balanced, less degrading, and while they have attractive people sometimes in sexual situations it isn't on the same level.

 

Ok, where's the border? Is masturbation without porn ok? What about masturbation with fantasies of other women? What about playboy magazine?

 

I think masturbation is fine. Masturbations with fantasiies of other women is kind of hurtful. Playboy is porn and sets up a false idea of what real women look like since none of the women age past 25 and have implants most of the time.

 

Don't change the topic. This was about the demeaning effect of porn.

 

I wasn't changing the subject. I didn't understand the question. It wasn't a very good one. I actually think you bringing gay porn into the dicussion is an attempt to change the subject when we are discussing issues between men and women, not gays. Why don't we stick to relationship issues between men and women since that is the orginal issue here.

 

 

 

So, what about gay porn, now? It is a medium that treats men the same way normal porn treats women...

 

Yes, I think gay porn is degrading as well. But I am not in romantic relationships with gay men. I am in romantic relationships with staight men that look at porn. But yes, both are degrading. However, in either case it isn't women degrading men. It is men degrading women or men. What is wrong with men that they like seeing women treated the way porn treats women?

[tanbark813]

Porn gets to be men's fantasy that they long for and the real life woman gets to be the one he has sex with after getting off to his fantasy on what he really wants.

 

This is simply not true. You're making false assumptions about men and then getting pissed off about it. Have fun with that.

 

You don't know the first thing about how women think and that you don't seem very interesting in listening or understanding.

 

Not once in this thread did I make a false claim--or any claim for that matter--about how women think. I'm not the one trying to dictate an entire gender's actions.

[malaclypse]

You're right. Porn gets to be men's fantasy that they long for and the real life woman gets to be the one he has sex with after getting off to his fantasy on what he really wants.

 

This is just stupid. If all a man really wanted was porn, why have a relationship to a real woman in the first place?

 

 

Men sometimes even put the porn above the real life women since in the porn it's all about what men wish women were really like that most real life women just can't meet men's expectations.

 

Sorry, but if someone puts porn above a real person, it's time to leave. Asap. This is a matter of self-respect.

 

I think masturbation is fine. Masturbations with fantasiies of other women is kind of hurtful. Playboy is porn and sets up a false idea of what real women look like since none of the women age past 25 and have implants most of the time.

You have issues with self-esteem and a victim-mentality. It's not that the cruel cruel men are out to hurt you. It seems to me that you just project your fears and insecurities on porn (and probably other things, too), and then blame the whole thing on your partner (or men in general).

 

I wasn't changing the subject. I didn't understand the question. It wasn't a very good one.

Thanks.

 

I actually think you bringing gay porn into the dicussion is an attempt to change the subject when we are discussing issues between men and women, not gays. Why don't we stick to relationship issues between men and women since that is the orginal issue here.

Because you said no man would ever allow himself to be demeaned like a porngirl. If one accepts the premise that all porn is as demeaning as you seem to think, this is contradicted by the existence of gay porn.

 

 

Yes, I think gay porn is degrading as well. But I am not in romantic relationships with gay men. I am in romantic relationships with staight men that look at porn. But yes, both are degrading. However, in either case it isn't women degrading men. It is men degrading women or men. What is wrong with men that they like seeing women treated the way porn treats women?

Some people get excited when they are demeaning others. Other get excited when they are demeaned by others. Some porn shows women demean men, too. There is lots of different kinds of porn.

 

It seems to me you're just generalizing your past bad experiences onto all of mankind (man-kind, even ).

 

 

And, as tanbark noted before, I too sense quite a lot of misandry in your posts.

[MakeLemonade]

Geez, if only a swift kick in the a$$ could be done through the screen. Maddening.

 

OP & JS, if your man's porn use bothers you SO much that it makes you feel degraded, defeminized?, de-this, de-that and de-other, why should that be his problem? As long as he isn't throwing it in your face and saying oooooh, look at this hon, isn't she hot, I'd love to bang her, you could never do for me what she does on this here screen. From the OP's story, I gather, he was doing it in what he thought was privacy. As long as you aren't being replaced with porn, as long as he doesn't choose porn over having sex with you then he is being a man. Period.

 

If it bothers you that much, you need to find another man, don't expect him to change, if he likes porn and you "make" him stop, he will only resent you for it. It is harmless in most cases anyway.

 

What you need to realize is your man's porn use isn't your problem, your REACTION to his porn use is the problem. You always have a choice.

 

Another way to minimize the porn use is to create some of your own, my hubby has a video on our computer of me giving him a mind-blowing BJ, he watches that more often than any porn out there, and he doesn't ever get tired of it. Yes, braggin' a bit. A-HEM.

 

Stop being a victim and take some action, you won't change this aspect of a man, if he likes it, he likes it - some men don't care for it at all - they are usually duds in bed but maybe that is what you would prefer as long as he wasn't looking at Sally Hooter on the side.

[JerseyShortie]

This is just stupid. If all a man really wanted was porn, why have a relationship to a real woman in the first place?

 

I never said a man only wanted porn. He wants both the porn and the real life relationship at the same time.

 

You have issues with self-esteem and a victim-mentality. It's not that the cruel cruel men are out to hurt you. It seems to me that you just project your fears and insecurities on porn (and probably other things, too), and then blame the whole thing on your partner (or men in general).

 

This in no way addresses the issue I brought up before in saying that most porn, and certainly Playboy projects a very limited "ideal" of beauty that men put on a pedestal. And then men turn around and wonder why women are insecure when they see their man looking at over inflated, super imposed images of women that aren't realistic for any woman to measure up to.

 

Because you said no man would ever allow himself to be demeaned like a porngirl. If one accepts the premise that all porn is as demeaning as you seem to think, this is contradicted by the existence of gay porn.

 

Relationships between gay men and relationships between straight women and straight men are different in some respects. As I said, lets stick to issues between men and women since that is what is being discussed here. And yes, most straight men wouldn't like seeing their women, or women in general treat them like nothing more then walking wallets there to be used by women.

 

Some people get excited when they are demeaning others. Other get excited when they are demeaned by others. Some porn shows women demean men, too. There is lots of different kinds of porn.

 

Yes, that is true. But there is much more out there about demeaning women and treating them poorly then there is the reverse. And yes, I am aware that alot of men like seeing women demeaned and used. That is one reason why it is disheartening and why it is very difficult to have trust that men actually like and respect women

 

And, as tanbark noted before, I too sense quite a lot of misandry in your posts.

 

Again, as with tanbark, I find it ironic that you find misandry in my posts yet seem to make excuses that it's okay that women are demeaned in porn. I also find it ironic since most porn calls women names, treats them like nothing more then holes for a guy to get off to and other items yet you fail to see how that can be read as women hating onto itself.

 

I don't hate men. I am hurt and disheartened by the way men are sometimes. And I don't think men respect women very much. Even the men that are suppose to respect women and being loving and loyal, like watching women used. It sucks as a woman to see that and it makes me wonder why men like seeing women disrespected and treated with so little regard. I have made this point and asked it a million times and I have yet to see you, or tanbank, or any other men directly address the fact that alot of porn treats women like garbage. Which is why no man would want to see anyone he cared for in it. Yet it is okay to direspect a whole gender in general. What does that say about men? I am directly asking you a quesiton and please don't talk around it by answering it replies about gay porn. That isn't directly addressing the issue.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

OP & JS, if your man's porn use bothers you SO much that it makes you feel degraded, defeminized?, de-this, de-that and de-other, why should that be his problem?

 

Yeah, silly me thinking a man should care about your feelings and how you view women.

 

 

As long as he isn't throwing it in your face and saying oooooh, look at this hon, isn't she hot....

 

Yeah, it's much better if he just thinks about it in his head and then next time he is having sex with you he is thiking about the chick in the porno he saw.

 

As long as you aren't being replaced with porn, as long as he doesn't choose porn over having sex with you then he is being a man. Period.

 

 

Everytime a man looks at porn, he IS replacing his SO for those moments where he is thinking about banging other women. Because many men are quite happy to use their real life woman and porn interchangably to please themselves. And if watching porn defines a man as you imply, then being hurt by a man watching porn can also define a woman.

 

 

 

What you need to realize is your man's porn use isn't your problem, your REACTION to his porn use is the problem. You always have a choice.

 

I find that extremly condsending. YOu totally disregard the way a woman can feel about it and seem to think that the only one who deserves to have their feelings matter is the man. The truth is if an SO is doing something that causes the other hurt, it is both their problem within the relationship. He has a choice too you seem to forget. He has the choice to care about his SO over his porn use.

 

 

 

Stop being a victim and take some action, you won't change this aspect of a man, if he likes it, he likes it - some men don't care for it at all - they are usually duds in bed but maybe that is what you would prefer as long as he wasn't looking at Sally Hooter on the side.

 

Ummm, you are saying the only a man can be hot in the sack is if he watches porn? Sorry. I have dated alot of guys that looked at porn and they weren't all-stars in the sack. Infact, many times porn is nothing about what turns women on and if a man thinks he can learn how to please a real woman with the way porn women act, he is kidding himself.

Edited March 13, 2008 by JerseyShortie

[tanbark813]

I have made this point and asked it a million times and I have yet to see you, or tanbank, or any other men directly address the fact that alot of porn treats women like garbage.

 

A lot of your posts are way too simplistic. There are varying degrees of porn. The kind where a woman gets face-f**ked while the guy shouts, "Take it, bitch!" I don't even like. But not all porn is like that. Some of it both man and woman seem to be enjoying themselves. And what about the more softcore stuff where it's just a woman dancing around solo or with other girls and simply showing off her body. How is that treating her like garbage?? If anything, it's idolizing her.

 

Saying that all porn treats women like garbage is not only overly simplified and false, but it's tantamount to subscribing to the notion that only men enjoy sex. Last I checked, women enjoy sex too.

 

People aren't "directly addressing" some of your points because they're just not true.

[tanbark813]

OP & JS, if your man's porn use bothers you SO much that it makes you feel degraded, defeminized?, de-this, de-that and de-other, why should that be his problem? As long as he isn't throwing it in your face and saying oooooh, look at this hon, isn't she hot, I'd love to bang her, you could never do for me what she does on this here screen. From the OP's story, I gather, he was doing it in what he thought was privacy. As long as you aren't being replaced with porn, as long as he doesn't choose porn over having sex with you then he is being a man. Period.

 

Yay, a woman who understands.

[MakeLemonade]

I would quote you JS, but your posts are hard to follow with all the quoted tidbits from here there and everywhere (not trying to be inflammatory, but well - they are! ) but I did glean your question about accepting your man's porn use, meaning your feelings are disregarded.

 

So what you are saying, then in essence is if you find porn distateful or offensive, your man doesn't, enjoys it - you know this, but he should stop because you don't like it? Isn't that disregarding his feelings? I don't see how that is any fairer.

 

Ultimately, I am just making a point that it really should be deemed harmless and I am with those that said women who have real issues with it, would seemingly have esteem issues, and perhaps are bothered by it on a deeper level in that it forces them to question whether their man is happy with them or not? I CHOOSE not to let some porn do that to my emotions. That is weak-minded, and I am stronger than that.

 

That is why it is a choice, and that is also why your reaction, rather than his use (as long as it doesn't fall under the extreme cases aforementioned), is ultimately the problem. JMHO.

[malaclypse]

This in no way addresses the issue I brought up before in saying that most porn, and certainly Playboy projects a very limited "ideal" of beauty that men put on a pedestal. And then men turn around and wonder why women are insecure when they see their man looking at over inflated, super imposed images of women that aren't realistic for any woman to measure up to.

 

Advertisements are way worse than porn in this respect. At least in porn you don't get such sick super-anorexic models as in most fashion ads...

 

That is one reason why it is disheartening and why it is very difficult to have trust that men actually like and respect women

Of course there are bastards everywhere. But most decent people do actually respect their partners. Maybe you should try dating some once...

 

Again, as with tanbark, I find it ironic that you find misandry in my posts yet seem to make excuses that it's okay that women are demeaned in porn.

What? Please show me where I actually made such excuses? This is just you projecting...again.

 

 

I am hurt and disheartened by the way men are sometimes. And I don't think men respect women very much.

"Men" do respect women. Maybe it's just the kind of men that you date who don't?

 

Even the men that are suppose to respect women and being loving and loyal, like watching women used. It sucks as a woman to see that and it makes me wonder why men like seeing women disrespected and treated with so little regard. I have made this point and asked it a million times and I have yet to see you, or tanbank, or any other men directly address the fact that alot of porn treats women like garbage.

Some porn does. Some doesn't. It's up to personal preference which kind of porn someone consumes. You generalize way too much.

 

Yet it is okay to direspect a whole gender in general. What does that say about men? I am directly asking you a quesiton and please don't talk around it by answering it replies about gay porn. That isn't directly addressing the issue.

What does this say about men? Not a lot. It mainly tells us about what you project into the whole porn thing.

 

Yeah, it's much better if he just thinks about it in his head and then next time he is having sex with you he is thiking about the chick in the porno he saw.

If a man thinks of someone else while having sex with you, the problem lies way deeper than just him watching porn....but I guess again, you will ignore this and only blame porn. It's so much easier to externalize all these bad feelings...

 

Everytime a man looks at porn, he IS replacing his SO for those moments where he is thinking about banging other women. Because many men are quite happy to use their real life woman and porn interchangably to please themselves.

Ok, if a man really uses porn and his partner interchangably, something is wrong with this guy. No one in their right mind would prefer masturbation to porn to sex with a real girl.

[tanbark813]

No one in their right mind would prefer masturbation to porn to sex with a real girl.

 

Amen to that.

[MakeLemonade]

 

 

Ummm, you are saying the only a man can be hot in the sack is if he watches porn? Sorry. I have dated alot of guys that looked at porn and they weren't all-stars in the sack. Infact, many times porn is nothing about what turns women on and if a man thinks he can learn how to please a real woman with the way porn women act, he is kidding himself.

 

Ummm, I didn't say that, I just say that from my experience, men who think it is bad or don't care for it, were duds in bed - they lacked imagination, creativity and any real zeal for the act and for making it exciting. I think if you go back and re-read what I actually said, I didn't in any way imply that watching it makes a makes a man good in bed. There is certainly no guarantee of that - if it was....ALL men would watch it.

 

And I do agree with what you said, JS, about a relationship being about both people, of course, and that when issues arise they should be addressed, however with this particular issue, I think there are better battles to be picked than one over watching some sexy women getting screwed. It really shouldn't matter that much, and like I said, in general men love them some porn, there are no two ways about it. I can't fight mother nature. So I choose not to - it really, truly doesn't bother me anyway. So, I guess that is where we differ - there is no agreeing on this - I do respect your opinion, I understand the offense issue, I see where you are coming from - I just don't agree with it and don't think it comes from a completely healthy emotional state of mind.

[climbergirl]

A) Women watch it but not to the extent that men do.

 

Don't be so sure about that. I like porn. My girlfriends and I trade porn. In fact, if my bf is going out of town, I have no problem buying him porn to take with him.

 

 

You're right. Porn gets to be men's fantasy that they long for and the real life woman gets to be the one he has sex with after getting off to his fantasy on what he really wants.

 

I shouldn't really speak for men, but you may be confusing what he's actually fantasizing about. I don't think it's the woman in the porn he is fantasizing about, but the sexual act itself. For example, when my bf and I watch porn together I can remember what someone is wearing, what they look like--all he can remember-besides the detail if someone was a blonde or brunette-is what they were doing.

 

 

 

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Well that is what men do! Because they will defend porn all the time and not eve get any closer to understanding why it is hurtful. Men sometimes even put the porn above the real life women since in the porn it's all about what men wish women were really like that most real life women just can't meet men's expectations.

 

A man (or woman) has crossed the line if they put getting off by porn as a priority above getting off by their partner. That I will agree. However, I honestly don't think men have expectations of their SO looking like a porn actress. Do they fantasize about their gf doing or emulating what they do in porn? Hell yes-that I know. But I view it as an opportunity to learn what my bf likes.

 

 

 

I think masturbation is fine. Masturbations with fantasiies of other women is kind of hurtful. Playboy is porn and sets up a false idea of what real women look like since none of the women age past 25 and have implants most of the time.

 

Again, I don't agree that a man watching porn = fantisizing about other women.

[MakeLemonade]

 

 

Again, I don't agree that a man watching porn = fantisizing about other women.

 

I also would agree with this - they are getting a visual - to aid their masturbation, that is usually about it. I imagine if they are actually fantasizing about anything it would be that you were doing to them what they were seeing on the screen.

 

I also wanted to add, that I think women who make a big deal of it, are in fact making it more exciting for their men to watch it, when you remove the stigma, the no-no factor - it would probably make it a bit less enticing - I have no proof of that, just a theory.

 

And as far as the fake boob thing goes - most men I know prefer the real thing, unless they are into really big ones. Have you checked out Penthouse lately? I got my hubby a subscription for Christmas and it was refreshing to see some REAL, normal sized breasts in there, rather than all the plastic, stretched out, same-old same-old.

[malaclypse]

And as far as the fake boob thing goes - most men I know prefer the real thing, unless they are into really big ones. Have you checked out Penthouse lately? I got my hubby a subscription for Christmas and it was refreshing to see some REAL, normal sized breasts in there, rather than all the plastic, stretched out, same-old same-old.

 

Indeed. Every man prefers the real ones in real life - fake ones just feel wrong...

[Taramere]

I think there are two sides here and there are women that like doing it, I also think there are women that do it because they are lost souls. Most normal women don’t want to do porn for the simple fact that it is demeaning and people do look down on it. But overall, my concern is not for the woman in the porn. It is for my man who likes watching women used, treated like recycled garbage and demeaned. What does that say about my man

 

That probably depends on the level of the porn, and the frequency with which he's using it.

 

There's no doubt that it's an extremely exploitative industry at times. Mainstream porn I don't mind...but it bothers me that so many people out there are buying DVDs of a sociopath abusing women who are dressed up to look like 11 year old girls (Max Hardcore - whose films are amongst the top sellers in the Adult DVD world). I believe we are, in part, what we consume...and whether male or female I'd tend to avoid anyone who watched films as toxic and soul destroying as that on a regular basis.

 

As far as porn making men regard normal women as failing to meet the mark goes...I don't know. I've read websites where men talk at length on the subject, describing normal women as "bad porn", and making other comments that back up the theory that porn leads to unrealistic expectations or encourages men to think of women as whores and cock-sockets.

 

Maybe they mean it, or it might just be misogynistic swaggering for the sake creating a bit of controversy. Only the people who say these things know what's really going on in their heads. If they mean it then hopefully they're as upfront in real life as they are on the Internet, so that women can make educated decisions about whether to get involved with them. The fact is, though, that there are some men who talk like that...and simply dismissing or mocking your feelings on this subject fails to take that into account.

 

That said, unless your boyfriend carries on in that way, I really think you should take him on his own merits; avoid assuming that his use of porn at times puts him in the same category as addicts or misogynists who have allowed it to poison their relationships with/appreciation of real life women.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Taramere

[popey]

Look up testosterone, and do some research on the differences between sex hormones in the male and female brains, and how brain function and sexuality are different for males and females. Learn a few basic things about biochemistry and what triggers masturbation in males. If you can't or won't do that, then there isn't much that can be said.

 

 

 

 

This is how you see masturbation? I'm speechless. Seriously.

 

I think your boyfriend will just start lying more effectively, and hiding things from you better.

 

You might seek a bit further to do the same. There are many studies that show that male brain response to porn shows little or no significant difference to that of females.

 

Also interesting thought: a hypothese that we all (who view porn) are being conditioned to be less turned on by real sex, due to our repeated reinforcement to respond sexually to porn. we are the dogs. porn is the bell. orgasm is the food. eventually we salivate over the pron, regardless of wether reall food is ours.