Doing the right thing versus what you think will make you happy

March 6, 2008

Looking back, I got married too soon.

Same thing in my marriage!

March 6, 2008

My wife has known things aren't right' date=' we have discussed it some. She was very adamant about me getting off the meds, 1) because it did cause some behavioral changes in me, i.e. more testosteronal and 2) because she wants to get pregrent again and is worried about what the meds could do... (even though my doctor says nothing to worry about).[/quote']I am kind of astonished that you would let your wife decide whether or not you need anti-depressants when you have been diagnosed with depression. My friend, you need to be back on them. I hope that you will resolve your issues with her before you even start thinking about having another child.

We should probably discuss it more. I think that my fear is doing so will seal the deal. She is very strong minded and proud, and it is possible she would make a unilateral decision to break up... and I'm still not sure that is what I want.
Look the bottom line is you're not happy! Maybe this is a rough patch you're going through, maybe not, but if my husband was unhappy, I would want to know, so that we could work on it together or end it together.

I'm not trying to talk you into staying in your marriage, but I think your key is having that "difficult" discussion with your wife.

And for the record, I did have that "difficult" discussion with my husband, and we are one of the lucky ones, we worked it out.

March 6, 2008

To those of you for which I didn't respond directly... I appreciate the feedback. It is all welcome and valued.

The consensus appears to be not to contact the other woman. I would definitely file this one under the "right thing to do" category (or maybe in this case the "right thing not to do").

To briefly play devil's advocate... I don't want to get much into the details other than to say that the other woman lives over a thousand miles away... so the chances of this developing into anything are very remote - and I think I'm being honest with myself in believing that its not what I really want out of seeing her. I almost look at the opportunity as a measuring stick on where I am now compared to nearly a year ago. I am actually happier now than I was last year... and I'm curious to know whether seeing this other woman will make me realize that the fantasy is just that. Of course it could always backfire and reinforce my desire for the attention I don't get in my marriage....

Yes, maybe I am only trying to justify something exciting that isn't the right thing... I'm still stuck on determining whether I can talk to the other woman with a clear conscious.

The only way you can talk to this woman with a clear conscience is to tell your wife about it and get her blessing. Really, that is honestly the only way it would be "ok". Marriage means no secrets, if you are speaking to another woman in any capacity, especially gleaning excitement from it.....put it this way, if your wife knew, would it upset her? If yes, there is your answer.

As for what you are feeling - dude - this is SO very normal - based on posts I have seen and things I have read and the way I feel, some of my coworkers feel, the way some of my friends feel, the way some of family members feel about their marraiges - feeling apathy at times, bored, restless, wishing you could do something outside of the marriage - just a LEETTTLLLLEEE something to give your insides some spark and butterflies is UNIVERSAL. You aren't special. What you are going through isn't something that thousands, even millions aren't going through right now.

That said - you just gotta keep on keepin on - love yourself, love your wife and child, go back on the meds if that is what you and your doctor decide is best, and work on things. Otherwise - get off the marriage train and find another stop that works better for you. And as much as I hate cliches, the grass is not always greener applies here. There is no guarantee that anything "new" you enter into, isn't going to end up right back here with apathy and boredom after a number of years. However, there is certainly something to be said for compatibility issues, if you and she are not compatible across enough areas, then no amount of work is going to make a happy marriage for you both.

Lucrezia's post was phenomenal - would put a stop to a lot of thoughts most people might have from time to time of "what if". I saw that it got to you, I am glad for that. Her posts have some of the wisest advice/observations I have seen on LS. Listen to her.

March 6, 2008

Maybe, whether its fair or not I don't know. But I have explored many many reasons as to why such a level headed, emotionally stable person (myself) could suddenly develop anxiety and depression (both mild with a brief moderate spike). Fact is, almost everything else in my life is perfect, and thats not just fooling myself. Actually, it is frustrating because I wonder why I can have these feelings with everything else going so good."

First, it is not fair to your wife, yourself, your kid, or your marriage to use someone as a scapegoat. You can never solve your problems if you don't own up to your part in them and face them head on.

Are you by chance feeling a little ashamed about the depression/anxiety issue? Many people do. It's sad that there has to be a stigma to it. I guess I wondered this because you called yourself a "level headed emotionally stable person" and it sounded a little deffensive to me. I had a friend years ago who had depression. He was smart, sane, decent, but wouldn't admit he had a problem. It eventially drove a lot of people away from him.

March 6, 2008

smart girl said it best: "They stopped the building and growing work they did when the relationship was new and felt the work of relationship building was done and it was time to coast."

and you're at a spot in your marriage where it's fairly easy to convince yourself that maybe the grass really *is* greener in other pastures, despite wandering over to those pastures or not.

the only thing that's going to help your relationship mend is for the two of you to learn how to communicate better. Her squalling about the one hour on the computer you spend versus the rest of the time you're "present" sounds more like a control issue in which boundaries need to be firmly set (my free time is when I do such and such for X amount of time, please respect that). Though there does seem to be greater control issues you're dealing with that need to be addressed, like telling you that you need to get off medication because *she* doesn't like it ... sorry, only a doctor has the right to tell you how it works!

seriously consider marriage counselling. Because it sounds like your style/approach to the relationship is way different than hers, and until you have the tools to communicate effectively with each other, you're going to make yourself miserable by questioning if there's something better out there in the guise of another woman.

March 6, 2008

Great post smartgirl!!! So very well stated.

March 6, 2008

I am kind of astonished that you would let your wife decide whether or not you need anti-depressants when you have been diagnosed with depression. My friend, you need to be back on them. I hope that you will resolve your issues with her before you even start thinking about having another child.

The interesting thing about that is I felt great before coming off the meds... we were getting along and figured why not start trying! My wife was very interested in the pregnancy time-line and eager to get started trying as soon as I came off the meds.

Look the bottom line is you're not happy! Maybe this is a rough patch you're going through, maybe not, but if my husband was unhappy, I would want to know, so that we could work on it together or end it together.

I'm not trying to talk you into staying in your marriage, but I think your key is having that "difficult" discussion with your wife.

And for the record, I did have that "difficult" discussion with my husband, and we are one of the lucky ones, we worked it out.

Thanks, good to know. We're you ever at the point where you felt like leaving would make you happier? And thus your outlook changed after having the difficult discussion?

March 6, 2008

I'm going to echo DaisyGirl and say the same thing....

I myself am experiencing EXACTLY what you are going through. My husband is a good man but he is hypercritical and has expectations of me that are unrealistic. As a result, 3 years ago, I went into a deep depression, thinking it was just that I cannot do anything right (the way he makes me feel). Then I started examining myself and the sich and came to the conclusion that there is just NO pleasing him, no matter what. It's just him. So I stopped trying. My way of coping was to take care of myself mentally, emotionally, physically, etc in a healthy way as well as take care of our two kids and stop trying to win his approval. That DOES seem to be the best thing to do and is very healthy/works.

However. I'm only human. He might compliment me from time to time and I'd get caught back up in the cycle of trying to please him/needing that from him....and then he'd smack me down again. So I've built some pretty thick defenses to keep that kind of hurt from touching me again.

The problem is that by nature, I'm very tenderhearted and loving and it takes a HERCULEAN amount of energy for me to keep my guard up like that.

And my case is just like yours: It's not 'BAD' enough to leave, but it's not "GOOD" enough for me to want to stay for the rest of my life, living like this.

I'm desperately lonely. I suggested counseling years ago and he sneered at me, telling ME to go get counseling and we'd be 'fine'.

Now, 3 years later, I do not have the willingness or energy to pursue counseling. We are roomates. There are times I see a glimmer of the guy I married, but it's rare.

I said all that to say THIS: What you are feeling is totally NORMAL.

BUT. I would really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally caution you against seeking out this woman, or any other woman until you decide you cannot be in this marriage. You may have good itentions. SO DID I. Like YOU, I just wanted some validation of my worth (since it's been hammered so much) from the opposite sex. I wanted someone to TALK to. Just like you, I am HERE physically, but I am DEFINITELY NOT HERE.

Adding an extracurricular FRIENDSHIP to the mix is inviting heartache like you do NOT even want to know. Seriously. You think your life sucks now? Just wait till you make that 'connection' and then it goes awry. Multiply your sorrows times ten, my friend.

Get out or stay in. Make that decision first. I know it's HARD. I'M IN THE SAME BOAT!!!!

But don't go there......it's not worth the pain you WILL feel.....

Good luck!

March 6, 2008

May I ask, why did you come off the meds?

Don't want to stay on them forever... thought that the issues were fixed. I was told by my doctor sometimes these things are temporary are resolved after a few months of meds. I wanted to see if that was the case. Also was getting some pressure because my wife was paranoid about getting pregnant with me on them... and yes, I know, shouldn't get pregnant if we are having difficulty! When we tried (and she didn't get pregnant by the way), we were doing well.

March 6, 2008

I',m confused (and curious). I've never heard of any drugs for depression and/or anxiety that would make someone more testosteronal. May I ask what the meds were? I hope I'm not getting too personal. If I am, just ignore my post.

I don't mind. Testosteronal, my made up word for the day... involved me:

(embarrassing) getting into a fistfight with another man at a sporting event... I know... I know... this was definitely a sign I was having issues with something!
carrying on conversations with other woman, primarily via text (NOT sexual conversations... just about sports, other friends, etc.)
going out with friends and getting pretty drunk
in general, just being more apathetic towards my wife - which was exacerbated by a recent move and my wife's stressing/freaking out over the details.

I probably should have prefaced what I said by... "we theorized that the meds caused some unusual type A male behavior in me." Not necessarily conclusive evidence that the meds caused it... just as likely could be me lashing out due to my discontent with the status quo.

March 6, 2008

Great post smartgirl!!! So very well stated.

I agree, you said some very wise things smartgirl.

March 6, 2008

I'm going to echo DaisyGirl and say the same thing....

I myself am experiencing EXACTLY what you are going through. My husband is a good man but he is hypercritical and has expectations of me that are unrealistic. As a result, 3 years ago, I went into a deep depression, thinking it was just that I cannot do anything right (the way he makes me feel). Then I started examining myself and the sich and came to the conclusion that there is just NO pleasing him, no matter what. It's just him. So I stopped trying. My way of coping was to take care of myself mentally, emotionally, physically, etc in a healthy way as well as take care of our two kids and stop trying to win his approval. That DOES seem to be the best thing to do and is very healthy/works.

However. I'm only human. He might compliment me from time to time and I'd get caught back up in the cycle of trying to please him/needing that from him....and then he'd smack me down again. So I've built some pretty thick defenses to keep that kind of hurt from touching me again.

The problem is that by nature, I'm very tenderhearted and loving and it takes a HERCULEAN amount of energy for me to keep my guard up like that.

And my case is just like yours: It's not 'BAD' enough to leave, but it's not "GOOD" enough for me to want to stay for the rest of my life, living like this.

I'm desperately lonely. I suggested counseling years ago and he sneered at me, telling ME to go get counseling and we'd be 'fine'.

Now, 3 years later, I do not have the willingness or energy to pursue counseling. We are roomates. There are times I see a glimmer of the guy I married, but it's rare.

I said all that to say THIS: What you are feeling is totally NORMAL.

BUT. I would really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally caution you against seeking out this woman, or any other woman until you decide you cannot be in this marriage. You may have good itentions. SO DID I. Like YOU, I just wanted some validation of my worth (since it's been hammered so much) from the opposite sex. I wanted someone to TALK to. Just like you, I am HERE physically, but I am DEFINITELY NOT HERE.

Adding an extracurricular FRIENDSHIP to the mix is inviting heartache like you do NOT even want to know. Seriously. You think your life sucks now? Just wait till you make that 'connection' and then it goes awry. Multiply your sorrows times ten, my friend.

Get out or stay in. Make that decision first. I know it's HARD. I'M IN THE SAME BOAT!!!!

But don't go there......it's not worth the pain you WILL feel.....

Good luck!

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that, especially that day to day existence requires so much effort to keep the wall up... so much energy invested for a cause that is so unfortunate. Don't you think you could better your life by not staying with the "roommate?"

March 6, 2008

Thanks, good to know. We're you ever at the point where you felt like leaving would make you happier? And thus your outlook changed after having the difficult discussion?

Oh yeah, definitely thought that leaving would be the best option for me. Like you, we were married way to young--19 and 20. I definitely married him for the wrong reasons, but never engaged in an EA or PA, I just plain wanted out.

We had that difficult discussion, I'm not gonna lie, it wasn't easy, and I really didn't think we were going to make it.

The turning point for me (as hokey as this sounds) was when we had to go to a closing. I was so sick that my hair hurt. He helped me put my socks on and I realized that this man who had his flaws was truly trying to do the best that he could. He wasn't out to get me, or make my life miserable, he was doing his best to navigate our marriage, just like me. This is when our marriage truly started to heal.

I realized that I needed to have a paradigm shift in what my expectations of marriage were, and the role that I played in the turmoil, and trust me, I was to blame for much of it.

I owned up to my part, and we were lucky enough to be able to salvage a marriage.

March 6, 2008

and I'm curious to know whether seeing this other woman will make me realize that the fantasy is just that. Of course it could always backfire and reinforce my desire for the attention I don't get in my marriage....

General Jack, in these situations I always wonder what would happen if you met this OW and started this new life with her you fantasize about. At some point, the newness, excitement and limerance fades from that relationship too and you're left...where?

Sooner or later, you have figure out how to make it work...

Mr. Lucky

March 6, 2008

General Jack, in these situations I always wonder what would happen if you met this OW and started this new life with her you fantasize about. At some point, the newness, excitement and limerance fades from that relationship too and you're left...where?

Hopefully someone with whom you are more compatible.

March 6, 2008

Hopefully someone with whom you are more compatible.

Exactly!! I totally agree!

March 7, 2008

Same thing in my marriage!

I second that emotion.

But then how are we to know what true love or the 'right' love really is?

So I hope nobody in our boat blames themselves too much.

I could go on about my theories on marriage and conclusions, but I won't hijack this thread.

March 7, 2008

Unfortunately, compatibility is one of those things you really can't tell during just the best of times. It has to work during the worst too.

March 7, 2008

Unfortunately, compatibility is one of those things you really can't tell during just the best of times. It has to work during the worst too.

No doubt.

And you know what?

I think compatibility is really the result of two (opposing?) forces. 1) It's a crapshoot. You either get lucky and find someone that you are compatible with and/or want to become compatible with or you don't.

And 2) You work to create/maintain compatibility. As in, you have some very basic (and quite necessary) compatibilities from the git-go, but you also have the desire to continually keep those compatibilities updated and pertinent and even expand upon them, because you respect the other person and have a general feeling of "like/love them" enough to do so.

In other words, people in marriages still have individuality about them - even after decades of being together. You (as a couple and as individuals in a marriage) can decide to either let the years and inevitable changes that take place cause you to drift apart and thus become incompatible (the old "we've grown apart"), or you can choose to constantly strive to seek common ground and shared interest to keep yourselves "glued" together.

Not really anything less than obvious in this post, but I wanted to share those thoughts, anyway.

March 7, 2008

Unfortunately, compatibility is one of those things you really can't tell during just the best of times. It has to work during the worst too.

I agree with that point, and it occurred to me that right now, based on everything else in my life, this should be the best of times. My wife and I don't have stressful issues such as family disputes, serious health problems (I can't say my mild depression/anxiety is serious...) money problems, bad jobs or the like. Things are actually going quite well for us... the biggest stresser in our life is a 3 year old daughter, but she is a joy and fairly easy as far as little ones go.

So its perplexing to me, why I can't be happier with my wife... it seems to keep coming back to just being "different," and that inherently, we just aren't meeting each other's needs.

Edited March 7, 2008 by General Jack

March 7, 2008

"(embarrassing) getting into a fistfight with another man at a sporting event... I know... I know... this was definitely a sign I was having issues with something!

carrying on conversations with other woman, primarily via text (NOT sexual conversations... just about sports, other friends, etc.)

going out with friends and getting pretty drunk

in general, just being more apathetic towards my wife - which was exacerbated by a recent move and my wife's stressing/freaking out over the details. "

You said you felt good on the meds, but then said that they might have caused the above. If the meds may have been responsible for that behavior, then I could why your wife didn't want you on them. I hope your doctor has talked about other options.

You say you and your wife aren't meeting each other needs. Could you be more specific about what those needs were? I find your post somewhat confusing because you say things are good and then you say you don't meet each other's needs. you say that your wife is a good person, but then say that you want affection/attention from another women.

What exactly do you expect marriage to be?

I can't shake the feeling that your looking for approval (sp?) to start an affair. I read to many threads before that sounded like this, and the mm/mw typically ended up having the affair.

Have you told your wife what your thinking/feeling? I think she at least deserves that.

I think you should have the respect for your family to at least divorce your and then start a relationship with another woman, or be completely honest with your wife about what your thinking and work on your marriage.

March 7, 2008

You said you felt good on the meds, but then said that they might have caused the above. If the meds may have been responsible for that behavior, then I could why your wife didn't want you on them. I hope your doctor has talked about other options.

The behavior was part of the reason I got off the them... in addition to not wanting to go "medicated" indefinitely. The thing with the meds... initial dosage caused more erratic behavior. Then moved to half dosage which seemed to be "just right." Felt great... got along with my wife well, and soon after discontinued the meds altogether. I was only on the half dosage for a month or so... since things were going better and my wife was paranoid about getting pregnant with me medicated, she was really pushing me to get off them altogether. Now that I'm off the meds, some of the old bad feelings and creeping back (mild depression and anxiety).

I'm meeting with a psychiatrist next week.

You say you and your wife aren't meeting each other needs. Could you be more specific about what those needs were? I find your post somewhat confusing because you say things are good and then you say you don't meet each other's needs. you say that your wife is a good person, but then say that you want affection/attention from another women.

What exactly do you expect marriage to be?

I can understand why its confusing, its because we have ups and downs, at times we are pretty good, others not so good - so the story has many chapters and seem things are contradictory - just depends on the time.

I would say that 85% of the time, the marriage just leaves me wanting more... I feel like I could wake up in 30 years after just going through the motions, and suddenly wonder why I didn't pursue a woman who I would wake up next to every morning and be amazed by... rather than be with a woman, who is a good woman, but for whom I feel more like a friend than a lover. And a woman, who while being a good woman in her heart, often just frustrates the heck out of me.

Needs for me used to be sexual, my wife admits to not being so fond of sex. This quite often will make me very frustrated, depends on the day. Currently I am not overly worried about it, oddly enough. Other needs for me are to be appreciated for what I am, rather than nagged for the couple of things that I'm not - and when I'm not perfect in the smallest details.

Needs for her are me being more interested in the things she is interested in... staying up later with her (mind you I already stay up until 11:00 and get up at 6:00 for work while she sleeps until at least 8:00)... otherwise her needs involve me "respecting" her more - which involves never questioning her - and me spending more time with her (I now have a job where I am actually at home for several hours almost every night - used to have to work much more).

The thing that is frustrating is everybody considers me to be a good husband, especially so before the past year... (her family and friends included) and those same people acknowledge my wife can be difficult. Shoot, she even acknowledges that she can be difficult. When we met, I didn't think it would bother me as much... or maybe I was just starstruck. But now its just frustrating.

I can't shake the feeling that your looking for approval (sp?) to start an affair. I read to many threads before that sounded like this, and the mm/mw typically ended up having the affair.

You are right in some respects. I probably am seeking some way of not feeling guilty about contacting the other woman. But I honestly feel like that contact could give me better insight onto the value of my marriage. This woman I am speaking of may not have the least bit of interest in me... I could get totally blown off, which, I believe would reinforce that my marriage is a better thing than I give it credit for.

Have you told your wife what your thinking/feeling? I think she at least deserves that. I think you should have the respect for your family to at least divorce your and then start a relationship with another woman, or be completely honest with your wife about what your thinking and work on your marriage.

Whoa, hold on a minute! I'm just trying to sort out my feelings, to talk about these things in a hopefully theraputic manner. But yes, we have had a few conversations about the state of our marriage.

March 7, 2008

Could this be a mid-life crises your going through? It kind of sounds like it.

Honestly, I'm looking at the things your going through in your marriage, and they just don'd sound that bad. I'm not trying to down play your feelings, I just know so many more couples, me and my husband included, who seem to have had worse problems and have come through. You sound like you might just be bored with your life, and are asking, "is this all there is?". A new woman might add excitement for a couple of years, but then that relationship is going to grow old too and you'll need something new again to perk yourself.

" But I honestly feel like that contact could give me better insight onto the value of my marriage. This woman I am speaking of may not have the least bit of interest in me... I could get totally blown off, which, I believe would reinforce that my marriage is a better thing than I give it credit for."

Most likely, contacting this woman is going to make your marriage seem worse. For one thing, your wife can't compete. This woman is new, and therefore more exciting. This woman is most likely still on her best behavior with you. What I mean is, when we first get to know someone, we tend to hide our faults while embelishing our positive aspects. Also, since you want a relationship with this woman, you are going to subconciously play up her positive aspects while playing down her negative aspects. Also, puting emotional energy into this other woman, is going to take from the energy you are putting into your marriage.

March 8, 2008

Could this be a mid-life crises your going through? It kind of sounds like it.

Very possible, I've considered that quite a bit.

Honestly, I'm looking at the things your going through in your marriage, and they just don'd sound that bad. I'm not trying to down play your feelings, I just know so many more couples, me and my husband included, who seem to have had worse problems and have come through. You sound like you might just be bored with your life, and are asking, "is this all there is?". A new woman might add excitement for a couple of years, but then that relationship is going to grow old too and you'll need something new again to perk yourself.

Thats the thing, its not that bad, just frustrating... limbo, apathy almost. Just no zip, fire, spark... and I need that.

" But I honestly feel like that contact could give me better insight onto the value of my marriage. This woman I am speaking of may not have the least bit of interest in me... I could get totally blown off, which, I believe would reinforce that my marriage is a better thing than I give it credit for."

Most likely, contacting this woman is going to make your marriage seem worse. For one thing, your wife can't compete. This woman is new, and therefore more exciting. This woman is most likely still on her best behavior with you. What I mean is, when we first get to know someone, we tend to hide our faults while embelishing our positive aspects. Also, since you want a relationship with this woman, you are going to subconciously play up her positive aspects while playing down her negative aspects. Also, puting emotional energy into this other woman, is going to take from the energy you are putting into your marriage.

All good points. But I do already know of some fallacies with the new woman. I don't daydream that we'll ride off into the sunset together. But still, all good points.

March 8, 2008

Problem is, she can also be pretty difficult, and always has been, notably having a short fuse and very very high expectations of herself and all of those around her. I should note that in the eyes of everyone we know I am successful financially and a good daddy to my daughter.

I am a laid back person by nature, and the "living up to her standards" is a pervasive issue. For example, if I am home for 4 hours in the evening and spend 1 on the internet, I'm not "present." (I used to work long hours and travel 20% of the time - for the past year I'm at home almost every night for several waking hours before bed). Or, if I take care of a simple problem my way instead of following her recommendation, I am "disrespecting her." I'm not going to go into greater detail because this is only a side note to my question, and for developing more background only.

My wife and I get along at times, but quite often are just fed up with each other. She has threatened to leave me many times over the years (not because of serious issues, usually because I'm "not respecting her needs" in some shape, form, or fashion - I will admit there are times when I should take this more seriously... but I am dealing with the boy that cried wolf syndrome). More recently, I have started to think that being away from her might be the answer.

I could very well have written this! I have 2 kids and divorced. Is your wife older to you?

I talked to her several times over the years regarding her behaviour and it was clear to both of us that I wasn't making her happy - neither of us are making each other happy anymore. We both came to a conclusion that we should do the right thing and pursue each other's happiness.

The right thing to do (for me, at least) is to make sure that you think things through before you make a decision to leave.

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Doing the right thing versus what you think will make you happy

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