Woggle Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I was just thinking and I think I just figured something out. I always said that the number on element in a woman's attraction to a man is respecting him and this fits into that. A woman has to know that a man can be happy with or without his woman in his life. He also has to be willing to leave if she pulls too much crap. He can't let her have too much power over his emotions or else she will start to see him as pitiful and lose respect for him which will spell the doom of their marriage. I love my wife but if she left me I might be disappointed in the fact that she would not be the woman I thought she was but I would bounce back quickly in less then a year. She knows this and I think this is the reason why she never nags and doesn't play the emotional games many women play. She knows I will just brush them off and not even deal with that crap. I think one of the reason my ex still pines for me even to the point of going crazy is the fact that I had the balls to kick her to the curb after the betrayel and I lived a happy life afterwards. Women are attracted to that kind of independence and emotional stability while men who fall apart over a woman are looked at as pathetic.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 She knows this and I think this is the reason why she never nags and doesn't play the emotional games many women play. Do you really think this is the reason? I'd like to believe its because she IS the woman you hope her to be. That said... I generally agree. Guys who act like lovesick puppies generally turn women off... in the long run. They tend to do well with insecure women for the first couple months. Emotionally stable guys... rarely turn women on if they are too available. I can throw out more general rules... but in the end it comes down to who your dating. Right?
RecordProducer Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You're still spinning the same ole record, Wog. A woman has to know that a man can be happy with or without his woman in his life. See, I want a man who needs female company and I need to know that I do make a difference in his life. I don't want to feel insecure about the relationship because I know that at the first problem, he'll show me the door, which is what my husband did to all his wives and yet he does need a woman in his life. She knows this and I think this is the reason why she never nags and doesn't play the emotional games many women play. So you're saying that she fears that you'd dump her and that's why she has to walk on eggs. How romantic! Women are attracted to that kind of independence and emotional stability Attracted - yes; but it's hard to live with insensitive people. They ultimately create a lot of drama in a very passive-aggressive way. You just THINK that you're strong, but you're pretending. Nothing else. You avoid conflict at any cost and when a problem arises, it will kill the marriage. As one psychologist said "If you are stiff and don't bend, you'll just break." The thing is you would turn into emotional mess if you would have to deal with some emotional problems, which makes you unable to communicate without falling apart. You are nothing but AFRAID to show your emotions and weaknesses. So how does that make you strong? Why are you reluctant to be honest about your emotions? because deep down you're falling apart and you don't want anyone to see that. There would be nothing for you to hide if you were really strong. The real strong man will be self-confident, but honest; he will communicate his needs and try to adapt to his wife's needs. If you're strong, you're supposed to be protective - not trying to protect yourself from her.
GoodOnPaper Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Attracted - yes; but it's hard to live with insensitive people. They ultimately create a lot of drama in a very passive-aggressive way. You just THINK that you're strong, but you're pretending. Nothing else. You avoid conflict at any cost and when a problem arises, it will kill the marriage. As one psychologist said "If you are stiff and don't bend, you'll just break." The thing is you would turn into emotional mess if you would have to deal with some emotional problems, which makes you unable to communicate without falling apart. You are nothing but AFRAID to show your emotions and weaknesses. So how does that make you strong? Why are you reluctant to be honest about your emotions? because deep down you're falling apart and you don't want anyone to see that. There would be nothing for you to hide if you were really strong. The real strong man will be self-confident, but honest; he will communicate his needs and try to adapt to his wife's needs. If you're strong, you're supposed to be protective - not trying to protect yourself from her. Excellent point. When you are married and trying to resolve "nice guy" issues, it can seem like you have to become two completely different people at the same time: the strong, confident, independent man who attracts women and the open, caring, nurturing man who can maintain a relationship. Reconciling these while trying to find the real you is a major challenge. The PUA community will say that the rules of attraction don't change after you are married -- hence, the advice about playing a little hard-to-get, not getting too emotionally invested, not being afraid to walk away, etc. This can sound good initially, after awhile, I felt that this advice was missing something. It may be better to consider this question: "Do you want your marriage to work?" Many of us get stuck at this point, but if your answer is a resounding "yes" or "no", I think that overcomes half the battle right there.
quankanne Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 wog, you're growing and that's a good thing to know. However, you're still allowing yourself to be overly jaded by what's happened in the past and whatever crap your male friends are experiencing. And you really need to stop that. because as you say, "women are attracted to stability." While it's good knowing that our men love us yet are still strong enough to handle a break-up, you're overlooking the fact that YOUR wife is dealing with a lot more issues than that: She's having to hold your hand and cosset you by "not nagging" excessively because she understands how fragile you really are. so stop shooting her down with dubious compliments and respect the fact that you've got a damned good woman who seems to instinctively know what you need and loves you enough to give it to you. how a *real* man keeps his marriage together is by allowing himself to trust his spouse, and be willing to meet problems head-on as they arise, especially if the problems are internally generated by his fear.
smartgirl Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You talk a lot about respect, but I don't hear much respect from you towards your wife or women in general. If you respected your wife, you would be honest about who you are and what you feel. If you were strong and confident, you could allow open discussion and communication of feelings. What you are describing sounds like game playing and dishonesty. It sounds like you are so afraid of being hurt again that you are trying to manipulate and control this situation to prevent what you perceive as the cause for your first marriage failure from happening again. Your wife should not be made to suffer from a lack of affection or respect because of what someone else did to you.
whichwayisup Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I love my wife but if she left me I might be disappointed in the fact that she would not be the woman I thought she was but I would bounce back quickly in less then a year. Stop doing these threads. You love your wife, she loves you. Enough. I'm stopping you now before you go on and on...And on. Focus on the NOW and how good your marriage is NOW. Not about the what if this happens and what if that happens. These types of thread serve NO purpose in your life Woggle. Stop and appreciate what you have infront of you.
Author Woggle Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 This thread is not a commentary on my marriage. From observing men I know with successful marriage none of them are weak men who will sacrifice their dignity to please a woman and none of them would ever put up with the emotional BS that some women but not all pull. This plays into the fact that most men I know who are happily married are strong alpha-men.
whichwayisup Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I know, but you're thinking about it and sooner or later these types of threads get you going. That's all I'm saying Wog. I would also assume though that the BS you're talking about would have had to be going on for quite a while and communication has broken down. One doesn't just walk out on someone because of some BS that's gotten too much. Most couples talk about it, work on it, fix it before walking away..
quankanne Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 alpha in the sense that they reserve themselves some from their relationships? I fail to see how that makes a healthy marriage. To me, an "alpha" male is someone who is willing to give even though he understands the risk of being hurt. Because he understands that until he does that, he gains nothing.
Author Woggle Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 You talk a lot about respect, but I don't hear much respect from you towards your wife or women in general. If you respected your wife, you would be honest about who you are and what you feel. If you were strong and confident, you could allow open discussion and communication of feelings. What you are describing sounds like game playing and dishonesty. It sounds like you are so afraid of being hurt again that you are trying to manipulate and control this situation to prevent what you perceive as the cause for your first marriage failure from happening again. Your wife should not be made to suffer from a lack of affection or respect because of what someone else did to you. It's not game playing it is called having a backbone. I love and respect my wife but if she starts tuyrning on me like many women do I will kick her to the curb so fast her head would spin. She does right by me and I will do right by her but if she does wrong by me she can get the hell out of my life.
RecordProducer Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 It may be better to consider this question: "Do you want your marriage to work?" This reminded me of an actor who said, "If you're rigid about your attitudes, sooner or later, the rug is going to get pulled up from under your feet." All long-married couples say that marriage is about compromise, and I would add that the willingness to compromise comes from humility. If your wife knows that she can't communicate anything with you (nagging evolves from desperate, futile attempt to communicate one's needs and produce a change), she will build resentment toward the "stone" she let in her life. If you're rigid in your my-way-or-the-highway stance, eventually it's not going to be your way - it's going to be the highway!
quankanne Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I love and respect my wife but if she starts turning on me like many women do I will kick her to the curb so fast her head would spin. She does right by me and I will do right by her but if she does wrong by me she can get the hell out of my life. therefore, your wife ideally should be a Stepford Wife, always pleasing, always smiling, and without character merely so you can be "happy." Right? what you explain here is a very conditional kind of love, though I can see how a person feels it's the safest way to love. However, if someone feels that way about relationships, what is the purpose of even getting married? With that kind of mindset, the relationship WILL fail because there's no real room for success ...
Lovelybird Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) With that kind of mindset, the relationship WILL fail because there's no real room for success ... Quan, why do you say such a thing? you know woggle's mind cannot resist this kind of negativeness alpha in the sense that they reserve themselves some from their relationships? I fail to see how that makes a healthy marriage. To me, an "alpha" male is someone who is willing to give even though he understands the risk of being hurt. Because he understands that until he does that, he gains nothing. I have to agree with this, vulnerability is brave Edited March 7, 2008 by Lovelybird
RecordProducer Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 therefore, your wife ideally should be a Stepford Wife, always pleasing, always smiling, and without character merely so you can be "happy." Right? what you explain here is a very conditional kind of love, though I can see how a person feels it's the safest way to love. However, if someone feels that way about relationships, what is the purpose of even getting married? With that kind of mindset, the relationship WILL fail because there's no real room for success ...This is a very good thought and it reminds me of my husband: he wants me to be a silent, smiling woman so that HE can be happy. Whether I am happy or not is none of his business. Moreover, if I suffer, that's a bonus, because it gives him the feeling of power and control.
Pyro Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 This is a very good thought and it reminds me of my husband: he wants me to be a silent, smiling woman so that HE can be happy. Whether I am happy or not is none of his business. Moreover, if I suffer, that's a bonus, because it gives him the feeling of power and control. Just from what you described RP, I think that he thought of you as a trophy wife. Good riddance to him.
Author Woggle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 I don't want a stepford wife but I do have standards for how I should be treated in a relationship and I don't feel I should back down on them.
Tanaquil Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Interesting thread. I will admit that there is something attractive about guy who can be happy whether or not he has a gf, mainly that it means that if he is with me then he's there because he actually cares, not just because he wants A girl. It is important to me that he wants to be with me personally. However, if I felt like he would dump me if I messed up and didn't treat him the way he wanted to be treated I'd be ticked off and probably break up with him very quickly because who wants to stay knowing that there is NO room for errors? I'm human, he's human, it's important that we BOTH admit that we're going to mess up sometimes and that we're willing to work on ironing out the problems. If my bf has a problem with something, I expect him to tell me. Sure, it may take a bit for me to adjust my behavior/whatever, but I expect him to give me the time and support necessary so long as I'm actually trying to change.
Author Woggle Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 There is room for error but if there is a pattern of her treating me like crap I would be out of there and women should approach things the same way.
Micke81 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I believe that my H would be just fine without me. You know what? That's a huge turn off, because I don't feel needed. On the otherhand, I do think a bit of a backbone is important, I just don't think that you can equate a backbone with being fine without the other person. A man that could truly be fine without the woman doesn't need a backbone because he isn't emotionally invested in the relationship and therefore never gets hurt. Another huge turn off. The backbone can be a defensive mechanism as well.
quankanne Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I don't want a stepford wife but I do have standards for how I should be treated in a relationship and I don't feel I should back down on them. and you SHOULD have standards for a relationship, Wog – I'm merely pointing out that what you post leads many of us to believe that you'll cut and run because there is no substance to your relationship, because frankly, it sounds as if it's based on a shaky foundation. "I love her ... but only if/when she blah blah blah" is not the way to build a successful marriage, even if it is understandable that you don't want to repeat what happened last time. However, you're selling yourself AND your wife short when you keep allowing yourself to think along those lines. And I think you deserve way better than that. at some point, you're going to have to quit fishing in the past and quit allowing others' problems to have such a huge impact on what the two of you share. you remind me of my husband when we first met. Divorced twice because both wives were screwing around on him, and the second one also walked off everything from the bank account. He was adamant that he was never going to marry again, that women were evil, that he was going to demand a prenuptial agreement if he was ever stupid enough to try it again. But guess what? He found me. And eventually came to understand that I wasn't out to get him, that I had higher expectations of marriage than either of his exes did, and that he could trust in the love we had for each other. this is why I keep riding your *ss, Woggle – because I think you'll find what you're hoping for in this marriage (and much, much more) once you leave behind that stubborn mentality that you've adopted in trying to protect yourself from hurt. When there are two people trying to forge a relationship, there are always going to be problems, but why stack the deck against the both of you by continually dragging up crap from the past or from some one else's life. Like I said before, y'all deserve much better than that, and I hope you realize it before you screw yourself out of a relationship that has the potential to save you.
RecordProducer Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I believe that my H would be just fine without me. You know what? That's a huge turn off, because I don't feel needed. On the otherhand, I do think a bit of a backbone is important, I just don't think that you can equate a backbone with being fine without the other person. A man that could truly be fine without the woman doesn't need a backbone because he isn't emotionally invested in the relationship and therefore never gets hurt. Another huge turn off. The backbone can be a defensive mechanism as well. Another smart person crawled out of her hole! Please don't disappear. We want people like you. Welcome! I completely agree with you. But Woggle was not talking about lack of feelings. he was talking about having enough backbone to resist his desire to be with the woman if she doesn't treat him well. I respect that. But I don't respect people who use their backbone as a blackmail card, as in you know you can't F with me, cuz I am crazy enough to ditch you although I love you, so you better not try to change me; I am who I am and take it or leave it.
Tanaquil Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Just remembered somethign that I meant to say but forgot--No, I don't want my bf to need me, but I do need to know that he wants me and that while he could be happy without me, he's happier when we're together. I need to know that I do add something to his life. That's all.
Pyro Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 This thread is not a commentary on my marriage. From observing men I know with successful marriage none of them are weak men who will sacrifice their dignity to please a woman and none of them would ever put up with the emotional BS that some women but not all pull. This plays into the fact that most men I know who are happily married are strong alpha-men. So then why did you mention your W to begin with? I am not married but from what I have seen and observed I will say that a man keeps a marriage together by compromise, listening, being supportive, being honest and keeping an open mind about things. Of course these things aren't guarantees to make a marriage last. You can only do so much to make a marriage last and if that doesn't do the trick, then there is no shame because he knows that he gave it his all in an effort to save the marriage.
MimiMe Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 I was just thinking and I think I just figured something out. I always said that the number on element in a woman's attraction to a man is respecting him and this fits into that. A woman has to know that a man can be happy with or without his woman in his life. He also has to be willing to leave if she pulls too much crap. He can't let her have too much power over his emotions or else she will start to see him as pitiful and lose respect for him which will spell the doom of their marriage. I love my wife but if she left me I might be disappointed in the fact that she would not be the woman I thought she was but I would bounce back quickly in less then a year. She knows this and I think this is the reason why she never nags and doesn't play the emotional games many women play. She knows I will just brush them off and not even deal with that crap. I think one of the reason my ex still pines for me even to the point of going crazy is the fact that I had the balls to kick her to the curb after the betrayel and I lived a happy life afterwards. Women are attracted to that kind of independence and emotional stability while men who fall apart over a woman are looked at as pathetic. I've heard it all!!! you must be kidding . You sound more arrogant than anything else (independent or emotionally stable)... Some by nature love rejection because they feel a challenge, I wouldn't exactly say that you wife, ex's, etc... didnt make a false move of unpleasing you because they felt threaten that you will bounce back in a blink if you guys broke up. In any given chance, if that was the case then they are just egotistical people, or just plain insecure and I get a sense that your attitude could have a lot to do with their fears and insecurity.
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