Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 That wife sounds like a real piece of work! :lmao: It's funny how any wife has the potential to be an evil no-good monster once someone has their eyes set on her husband... And the stuff about the wife being a leech living off the lifestyle the man has provided... can anyone say s-c-r-i-p-t...
Author Kingsburybear Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 I've been around for a very long time, so I don't need to be fed a line of BS. I've seen it since the beginning. She is the way she is and has been through their whole marriage. She is entitled to be supported, he has allowed it all these years, he can't change that now. It has been too many years since she worked. And no he has been no prize to her, he has done his own thing for many years whether I was in the picture or not. We both think often that she would like out. But she is accustomed to a certain standard of living, even with alimony it would not continue for either of them. Me I had nothing to lose, I was the primary source of support for my family for many years and that didn't change. It actually got a little easier as I don't have to support my ex husband any more. As for the lies, if her nose isn't rubbed in it, she usually leaves us alone. My ex husband wanted someone to blame so he did just that. She knows we are not just friends, as he says no one is dumb enough to believe that the same woman bouncing back in and out of his life all these years is just a friend, no matter what he says to keep her quiet. I admit sometimes it is a script. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. All I am trying to say is everything does not fit into a neat little mold, and there are many kinds of victims. I didn't set my sights on her husband. I have loved him since our early twenties. I don't want him to sneak off and get a divorce. I want him to do nothing that he doesn't consider right. We all have to accept both the responsibility and consequences of our actions. Him and I and her as well have been doing that for many years.
angelj Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Back to what I stated earlier...you have no idea what is said behind closed doors. Maybe you're said to be the one who can't let go, who threatens things if he doesn't keep you around. And she's too accustomed to her lifestyle to have it change? Baloney. She hasn't worked in enough years so there is no way for her to support herself now? Really? I mean, REALLY? c'mon. Anything is possible. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G. If this man did not want to be with her, he wouldn't be! It sounds more like you two are addicted to each other. Wouldn't you consider those statements above justification for why he can't leave her?
NoIDidn't Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You know, I thought this story was posted because it was so different and so unique. Each post from the OP comes back sounding like more of the same. Responders: actions not words..... OP: but I have his heart..... Responders: leave his M alone, get out, you are wasting your time.... OP: but if I don't do it, he'll just find somebody else, he's always done this, but with me its different - besides his W knows the condition of her marriage but refuses to leave (implying, so I have to stay.....LOL) I do find it interesting that both Hs turned out to be lazy after the fact. No doubt they were lazy before the fact as well. One can't use the fact that a person has A job to say that they aren't lazy. KB just has a history of letting people use her, while claiming to never see it coming. And defending the one that has used her for the longest. Has this MM been married to the same woman the whole time of this 30 years rouhgly? If so, THAT says far more than you think it does. It really is true that men go for what they want full throttle - and that's whether its the best thing for them or not. Think about that funeral thing, no matter how many times he's taken you out in public. Unless everyone in the little town is that dysfunctional, its really bad taste to publicly acknowledge your side piece (believe it or not), especially when the entire family is gathered. We like to try to remember the positives, not the hidden (and not so hidden) negatives about the person we are mourning.
Jess-Belle Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You know' date=' I thought this story was posted because it was so different and so unique. [/quote'] They're always so different and unique. That's the OW catch-all phrase, the security blanket. I remember it well. You cling to the myriad of details of the story, desperately believing that somewhere in there lies the key to proof that your story will somehow have a different ending from everyone else's. Not everything is black and white, not everything fits into a neat mold, every situation is different... But 9.5 times out of 10, the result is always the same: the OW gets kicked to the curb, or has the lifeforce drained out of her for years by someone who will never commit to her. The details are really irrelevant.
NoIDidn't Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 The details are really irrelevant. I can certainly agree with this. The destination is really the same.
Author Kingsburybear Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 There are so many angry bitter people here. Understand one thing, no one can make someone else change. That is a problem in many relationships, whether marriages or affairs. The only one who can change someone is themselves. People also should not cast stones but look instead inside themselves for their own share of the blame. As I said before, no one can destroy a good marriage. Infidelity can, someone said. Well if their is infidelity, a marriage isn't good. A marriage is a partnership and takes hard work from both partners. Have I experienced it myself in my own marriages? No. But I have many friends and relatives who have very good, strong marriages. A childhood friend and I where discussing this. She has been happily married for 25 years to her husband. As she said if she found out about a fling, she would insist the affair ended with NC and she herself would insist on being there with the OW to make sure it was done. She would then want MC to see where the problems were, as they had to be in both partners and try and rebuild the trust and the marriage. She then said, if it happened again, it was over. I spent many years turning myself into a martyr. An alcoholic marriage is no different than an affair. Except the OW is a bottle or can. I screamed, spied and went to meetings. I tried everything to get him to give up his drinking. I blamed the bars, the bartenders and every friend he had. I searched the garage, his car, and followed him. The more I screamed and carried on, the more he drank. Was I to blame? Absolutely not! But I did contribute. Instead of looking to make myself better and whole and happy. I looked to make him miserable and blame everyone. I believed if he cared enough he would change, and in all honesty, he did go through the motions, no bar, no friends and was very inventive in how he discreetly drank. He also became more miserable, and then so did I. As time and counseling went on I stopped fighting it. Did he get better, no, but I realized I didn't want it any more. That I wanted to be happy, and deserved to be. I stopped screaming and stopped blaming. I accepted responsibility for my actions and left his to him, then I left him. He still drinks, his problem, no longer mine. In my relationship, I don't force, carry on or threaten. I can't be kicked to the curb, because if it was in either of our best interest to leave we would. The only thing we ask of each other is love and companionship. As for the funeral everyone keeps bringing up. I would never subject anyone to even attempt to show up during hours. I am more of a lady than that and all involved deserve better than that. Would she like to make a scene, absolutely. I wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction or embarrassment. If that day comes I will say goodbye, quietly in private, then grieve the same way. Him and I have made many mistakes over the years, and we take full responsibility for them. If there can be some happiness in this life, why not take it. I wrote, not to justify my actions or his, but because there are so many angry people on here looking to cast blame on the OM/OW and make themselves the victim. People are only victims if they allow it. Not all affairs start because someone is looking to hurt someone else. Some start because someone is looking for something that is missing in their heart. And yes, some people like what someone else has. But assuming that is the way it is, is wrong. I started reading here, because I was curious. I was looking for insight into why someone would choose to live in misery than be happy. Why someone would just play little games to make life harder for their spouse, without taking a stand. It makes the person playing the games just as miserable. There are always signs if we choose to see them. If anyone is blindsided, it is because they choose to bury their head in the sand. I agree with the one poster, I allowed myself to be used in my marriages. I allowed it. I am not used by my love. I know the way things are, and demand no more. I choose to do this. Am I just sitting on my butt, living a dream, while she takes care of his home and family. No. I take care of my own family. I take care of my own home. I am involved in schools and my community and I work hard. I have a life. I do not spend my life getting massages and waiting to be called upon. When he calls me during the day, he asks how my day is going and if I need to bitch, I do. I sound off on him, like anyone else and he does the same. When he has problems at work and wans to vent he calls and does it to me. He also vents about kids family, finances etc. We give each other advice and talk of the options. If something breaks in my home, he either fixes it or advises me of a repair man. We are friends first and lovers second. We respect each other and each others boundaries. I never understood why he has stayed with her, as he didn't understand why I put up with my ex as long as I did. But it is individually our own choices and we listened but didn't judge. If he is venting to me about something she has done or something the kids have done, and I think he is the one in the wrong, I tell him that she is right. I don't jump on it to make poor him the victim. There have also been times he has had both of us angry at him at the same time. You people seem to get a joy out of talking of a "piece" on the side. You talk of bad taste. Well causing scenes and embarrassing someone in public is bad taste, no matter who is doing it. You are all angry and cruel, and seem to want to look at life in black and white. Life is Grey, all the time. Instead of looking to blame, how about looking into yourselves. In a perfect world Cinderella marries Prince Charming and they live happily ever after. Life is not perfect and sitting on ones ass saying they where the BS is a cop out. If he decides to end things tomorrow. I would kiss him on the cheek, and tell him to be happy, as he would do to me. Would it hurt? Would I miss him? Of course. Would I write a letter to or call his wife. No, that isn't my place to do. His marriage, his wife, his responsibility. Revenge accomplishes nothing, but hurt. I love him and want him to be happy. If he is happy by concentrating solely on his marriage, then I ask no more. If by some chance I met someone tomorrow that I thought would make me happy, he would step aside and wish me happiness as well. He has in the past when I asked him to. I choose not to get involved with anyone, as my heart is already taken. He knows, his marriage is what it is. But if I ever thought he was someplace else. There would be no scene, but I would be gone. We also agree no lies between us, no matter how much the truth hurts. I'm not too concerned about death or who remembers what when we are gone. I leave my own stamp on this world with my own accomplishments. Mostly in my children. No matter what death is the end and hopefully the beginning of a better life. My ex is with a woman who accepts his drinking. So much better for them. My only concern is that he doesn't do it around our children. The rest is his problem. I accept he is who he is, and since I left, it is not my concern. My job is to live my life, find some happiness in this world and raise my children to the best of my ability. The fighting is over, as is the drama. It took me a lot of years to let go. If I wanted to be nasty or wanted to change statistics, anyone could. I could send her a picture, tell her where we will be. Would he ever forgive me. Who cares. I couldn't forgive myself. That isn't who I am. So don't quote the statistics in your nasty judgmental way saying the "piece" gets kicked to the curb, 95% of the time. Does that make you feel superior? I'm not asking him to leave. I am more than willing to help him keep the peace, so to say. He is who he is, and I'm not looking to change him. Does that make me horrible. I'm not the one insulting anyone. It makes me someone who is willing to live and let live. Someone who just wants some happiness in this world. Someone who is in love, has her eyes very much opened, and will do nothing to hurt or influence her companion. So if someone is the BS, maybe instead of being nasty and casting stones, they should accept their share of the blame, get over it and move forward. Not easy, but no one in any marriage or relationship is perfect or without blame. Attack away!
Kasan Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 As someone who has been married 25+ years, I can't fathom staying in a marriage where I knew my husband was in love with someone else. I just couldn't do it. On the other hand, I don't think I could be in love with someone as long as you have been, with a man who has been married for so long. I feel so sorry for your situation. To allow yourself to be in limbo for so long seems like such a waste of a life. At some time I would have felt the need to cut my losses and move on. I'm wondering what your payoff was/is for all of this. Is this type of relationship safer for you? I really hope this works out for you.
Owl Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I'm curious...what are you hoping to gain from posting here? Support for your choice to have an affair? Understanding of your viewpoint? Advice on what to do from here? How can we help you?
whichwayisup Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 angry nasty people There are so many angry bitter people here You're upset because many people don't see your situation with the rosy glasses on. Everyone has been respectful, noone has been nasty to you. Each person has put their thoughts down and sorry if you don't agree with what others have said. It's your life, if you want to settle and know that the man you're with "loves" you, but not quite enough to change his life for you - Well, all the power to you. You think that his wife and him aren't close? They don't have sex? That he doesn't love her as much as he loves you? This man has TWO women in his life meeting all his needs. He must feel like the King!
Author Kingsburybear Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Answer to Kasan: I was married as well, twice. I turned him down years ago, because I didn't believe he was ready for marriage. He always told me I should have known he would grow up someday. Turned out he had to, after I moved on he got someone pregnant and did what he considered to be "the right thing". I still loved him when I moved on, but I wanted a family, at the time he didn't. I met someone and got married and had children. He split with his wife and I was still married and pregnant at the time. When I didn't leave he tried again with her. When my husband and I split, he had only recently agreed to give his marriage another try and his wife was again pregnant, so he stayed. I wanted more out of life, so I again moved on. He left her again several years later. I was once again married and pregnant and asked for NC, and he did as I asked. He once again agreed to give his marriage another try. While married he developed an illness and was on a self destruct path. I was still married as well. Mutual friends and family sought me out, to try and talk some sense into him. I agreed, even though it made my husband very angry. I loved this man, and couldn't live with myself if I didn't try. I went and found him and talked with him. He was miserable and afraid and didn't like the idea of facing his own mortality, even though he was causing problems with his recovery himself. I told it like it was, and told him that even though we where not together, I loved him and didn't want to live in a world he wasn't part of. He told me how unhappy he was and asked me to consider leaving my husband, as he was looking to leave. I told him I couldn't. At the time I was determined to make my marriage work, alcoholism and all. I didn't leave and neither did he. But he slowed down and got well. The next time he left, I was unaware of it, as I had told him I couldn't be an active part of his life, but to call if he needed me. He believed I knew and chose not to come, so once again he returned to his marriage. My ex husband and I separated a dozen or so times and kept reconciling. I never let my love know, and he was unaware. We ran into each other a few times a year and kept up on the other ones health, children and left the marriages alone. When I left for good 2 years ago, coincidence had a mutual friend see me, and the next day my love called. Not knowing I was separated. We met to catch up and fell into the old relationship. He has reconciled with his wife after splitting several times. Usually because of us. I have been through two marriages and a live in relationship that just wasn't right. And for the person who asked if I had ever had a "normal" relationship. He (the man I lived with) is a good man, no abuse, alcoholism, etc. We just where more like roommates. We where not in love and parted mutually. We decided not to get married. We are still friends. My love and I agree that we have never been on the same page at the same time. He kids that he always has to catch me between marriages. We both know that through miscommunication and doing the right thing or looking for a certain way of life. We both walked away too many times. This time I know, that I do not want to get married again to someone else. I am not going looking for a better life or happiness. I am much older and like myself. I have a good life and am happy. He has a lot of guilt, and rightly so, that he went back to her whenever I was unavailable or didn't come running. Was that fair to her? No. He did the same things I did, but while I married different men, he reconciled with the same wife. I'm tired of history repeating itself and tired of running away from him. This time I am happy and stay where I am. Will he leave again? I'm not a psychic. If he doesn't, I am happier with him than in any other relationship I have ever had. He's moody, controlling and far from perfect. But I love him and he loves me. The one thing I learned from my marriages, is that you accept people for what they are or leave. This time I accept. We have had many chances over the years, and we combined have found more ways to screw things up than I thought possible. It hasn't been one sided. We've both not waited etc. This time I will not involve yet another person or seek a different life. I'm too old for games. What do I get, finally happiness. We are happy when we are together, and I will take a few hours of happiness over years of misery, any time. I have learned that. I've done most of the leaving over the years. This time I am staying and he knows it now. I am willing for him to have the best of both worlds. I once again have my best friend in my life to talk with and spend time with, and I had missed that terribly as had he. I also get to hold my love in my arms again. Sounds corny, but true. This time there is no timetable. I've wasted too many years looking for what I walked away from. This time he knows, figure out what makes you happy, no clock ticking, no strings. I'm here and not going anywhere. Not this time. Edited March 6, 2008 by Kingsburybear forgot something
Author Kingsburybear Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Sorry hit post button twice. I will not post again. I was hoping merely to point out that all is not black and white, and the answers and blame are often in ourselves and not in OW/OM or even a bottle. Life is too short to be so angry or judgmental. Good luck to you all. Edited March 6, 2008 by Kingsburybear
angelj Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 No one was attacking you, we were, just as someone said, merely putting our thoughts out there, as respectful as possible. Maybe there is someone who can identify with why another person would continue to play nasty games and cause misery for another human being. Obviously we just saw it from a different perspective. That is typically what happens on these sites, you get viewpoints from all different perspectives than what you can see. Sorry if you became offended, however please note that was not any of our original intentions. I am nowhere near angry or bitter, as I previously mentioned, I have been an OW myself. I was just sharing my side of the story. Good luck with your life as well, KB.
herenow Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 There are so many angry bitter people here. I personally don't see any anger here. All I see are people who wouldn't choose your life for themselves. There are many things I wouldn't do, does that mean I'm angry and bitter? For example, I have a good friend who goes hunting on the weekend. I think it's a barbaric sport, by am I anger and bitter? Not really, I just think what he does is an act of cruelty. Same here, I just think what you, and the MM are doing is not something I would ever do. But, as I think I have said many times, it's your life, do what you want. Does that make me bitter? If so, well I'm the most bitter person around. I think thou pretest too much. You come to a forum where BS and WS alike come to voice opinions and when you get someone who doesn't agree with you, we are called bitter. I'm not surprised. Most of your story is very stereotypical, so why shouldn't your response to others who disagree with you be stereotypical as well? Do I need to congratulated you on finding happiness and true love again?
JustBreathe Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Eh,she doesn't want to hear it. She'll defend her user and abuser boyfriend until the day he or she croaks. That's what enablers do. So be it. Get well soon.
herenow Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) [quote Get well soon. This is the most appropriate response to this thread yet! Sorry about all the typos in my previous post. I should really read my posts before I press post reply. Another point I would like to make is that if the wife stays because she likes the lifestyle and the OP thinks that is just wrong, isn't the MM staying for the same reason? Why is it OK for the MM to stay so that he doesn't have to give up what he has financially, but the wife is evil for the same act? Bottom line, if they are both (MM & BW) staying married because of what a divorced will cost them, what does that say about the worth of the OP? Just saying. Before you say that you never said it was about money, let me remind you of what you said a few pages ago: "At our age giving up more than half of everything you have worked for all of these years is not an easy choice. He would like to retire in a few years. I am not after his money. I have worked all my life, my pension will be mine. She hasn't, not because she was staying home being a Mom, the kids where in school. She has never liked to work, and if he could let her stay home, he could basically do as he pleased." Edited March 6, 2008 by herenow
twice_shy Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 There are so many angry bitter people here. Well then maybe you should have posted this in the OW/OM section where your kind of behavior is usually coddled and in some cases encouraged.
twice_shy Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Does that make me horrible. I'm not the one insulting anyone. It makes me someone who is willing to live and let live. Your idea of "live and let live" is to mess around with someone elses husband? Looks alot like interference in someone's life to me. And yes, I know, the husband is the most to blame. Afterall, if it wasn't you, it would be someone else. But that doesn't lessen your role in things.
JustBreathe Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 What was her point anyway? To show how all things are not black and white and that there are gray areas where affairs are concerned? Her posts are full of contradictions and foggy thinking. He's spending his time screwing his OW, warming a bar stool, playing cards with his buddies, or supposedly sitting in a diner. He is gone most of the time, sometimes all night. Who's raising his kids while he and OW are out there having a boinkfest? Maybe that sick and twisted wife of his? Strange... I don't feel enlightened. I don't see any gray area here at all. It's just plain wrong on every level. Black and white? You bet.
Mustang Sally Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I'd just offer this. And I do not mean it to be harsh or bashing. Honest Abe. But I think instead of this posted story illustrating that "there is no black and white," for me it illustrates that denial and rationalization are very powerful cognitive mechanisms, indeed. Let us all go forth with that thought in mind, shall we?
JustBreathe Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Yes lets. Being a reformed doormat who retired her blinders awhile back and is faced with the stark reality of how much I gave up for so long - it makes it that much harder to read when other women are blinding themselves and allowing it all to happen, and I do mean his wife also. Enough said. I'll quit kicking and be quiet now, I promise!
silktricks Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 There are so many angry bitter people here. Understand one thing, no one can make someone else change. That is a problem in many relationships, whether marriages or affairs. The only one who can change someone is themselves. People also should not cast stones but look instead inside themselves for their own share of the blame. {snip} I wrote, not to justify my actions or his, but because there are so many angry people on here looking to cast blame on the OM/OW and make themselves the victim. People are only victims if they allow it. {snip} I started reading here, because I was curious. I was looking for insight into why someone would choose to live in misery than be happy. Why someone would just play little games to make life harder for their spouse, without taking a stand. It makes the person playing the games just as miserable. There are always signs if we choose to see them. If anyone is blindsided, it is because they choose to bury their head in the sand. {snip} You people seem to get a joy out of talking of a "piece" on the side. You talk of bad taste. Well causing scenes and embarrassing someone in public is bad taste, no matter who is doing it. You are all angry and cruel, and seem to want to look at life in black and white. Life is Grey, all the time. Instead of looking to blame, how about looking into yourselves. {snip} So if someone is the BS, maybe instead of being nasty and casting stones, they should accept their share of the blame, get over it and move forward. Not easy, but no one in any marriage or relationship is perfect or without blame. Attack away! I don't intend to attack, but I do intend to point out a couple of things. You've spoken quite a bit about the anger on this board - though you could have meant this particular thread, I'm not sure. Yet you have made assumptions about BS in general and specifically, it seems, BS on this board regarding misery, spite, revenge and etc. You have some good points: 1. You are correct when you say that you can't change another person, they can only change themselves. However, I don't understand why you would even bring this up. Are you assuming that BS think they can change their WS? Or are you assuming that BS think the OW have changed them? What is your point? 2. There is always enough blame to go around. The BS does share a portion (1/2 usually) of the blame for the problems in the marriage. However, the BS shares not a particle of the blame for the choice the WS made to have an affair. The WS has full credit for that blame. The OW also share in the blame in having an affair. She is quite aware of the fact the MM is married and chooses to indulge both him and herself in spite of that fact. This is not the behavior of a truly kind person. 3. There are a number of angry people in the world, for a number of reasons. Writing justifications in regards to your affair is not going to lower the temperature or reduce the anger of betrayed spouses. There are also a number of angry OW. In all honesty, you appear to be one of them, but appear to have learned that anger takes on a different hue when presented differently. It's still anger though. 4. It is totally true that there are not nearly as many true victims as there are people who want to view themselves as such. I completely agree with the idea that most people are not victims unless they allow themselves to be. That, of course, applies equally to BS, MM and OW. OW, however, usually imply that it applies only to the BS. I hope that I misunderstood and you were truly meaning that it applied to all. 5. Really, no one need be nasty and throw stones. However, please don't expect betrayed spouses to come over all kind and loving to a woman who seems to gloat over the fact that their affair is a success and that the betrayed wife is a bitch from h311. Maybe she is and maybe she isn't. Maybe you are with the love of your life and maybe your MM is. But telling a bunch of people you know have been in a lot of pain over what you are crowing about is not the action of a kind person, nor is it kind to then act as if you are a victim when they react. As you said, you aren't a victim unless you choose to be .
Ladyjane14 Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 My job is to live my life, find some happiness in this world and raise my children to the best of my ability. Here's the key statement and the reason why "Life is Grey, all the time." for this poster. She doesn't understand 'black and white' or 'right and wrong', because at the core of it all... she believes the whole point of life is gratifying her sense of "happiness" and accomplishing whatever duty she perceives as a parent "to the best of her ability", whatever that may mean as she defines it for herself. Those who aren't at peace with their belief system (or lack one altogether) are ill-equipped to understand people who choose to feed their souls first. They will undoubtedly perceive any disapproval as "nastiness". Their "live and let live" attitudes are centered to the self, so they don't recognize that their pursuit of "happiness" often interlopes upon other individuals or upon society as a whole. They have no higher purpose to rely upon for their conscience than what they, themselves, define in the heat of their desires. Other people, the fabric of society... these things cannot be a priority to those whose "higher purpose" is limited to the pursuit of their own happiness and the fulfillment of their obligations without the boundaries of conscience and moral goals. It's sad. Because these folks are missing out on the sense of peace that they could have otherwise enjoyed in service to something larger than themselves. For some, that may mean a spiritual belief, for others a belief in community. We each have the luxury of choice when it comes to designing our belief system, afterall. But for those who choose only to believe in that which they can grasp and use for their own gratification... these are left in a turmoil of their own making, feeling victimized by a world filled with "nasty" people who don't understand them, never realizing that it is they... who don't understand.
angelj Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 It's sad. Because these folks are missing out on the sense of peace that they could have otherwise enjoyed in service to something larger than themselves. For some, that may mean a spiritual belief, for others a belief in community. We each have the luxury of choice when it comes to designing our belief system, afterall. But for those who choose only to believe in that which they can grasp and use for their own gratification... these are left in a turmoil of their own making, feeling victimized by a world filled with "nasty" people who don't understand them, never realizing that it is they... who don't understand. Along with your statement, I noticed that KB is the only person who saw nastiness in any of our posts. And not all of us posting are betrayed spouses. As I have previously stated numerous times, I have been an OW myself...in fact, I have never been a betrayed spouse. I have only either betrayed...or have been the catalyst. . . hmm.
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