carhill Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 Carhill- Interesting, do you care to elaborate? Sure. Individual counseling to clarify your psychology and impetus for your actions. Continue. Such things are not elucidated or reconciled quickly (7 mo. is "quickly") Love is conditional between adults; it is not like unconditional love for a child. We have expectations of each other and want those to be met and have feelings regarding them. Define those conditions for yourself. Expect your partner to do the same. Work on yourself during a year of NC and counseling and update us how you and your fiance are doing after that juncture. IOW, clarify yourself (use this forum for feedback and support) before trying to rebuild the relationship with your fiance. You and he have been going back and forth continuously since d-day. It's not working and IMO should stop. Tell your fiance that you love him and need to do this for yourself and for your future together. Encourage him to do the same. If there is indeed a connection between you, time will be irrelevant and you will come together again
Author prisonbreak Posted March 4, 2008 Author Posted March 4, 2008 Very good stuff Carhill. I guess I never thought of those points before or looked at it from that view. A lot of tough questions I am going to be asking myself and journaling about. For me this forum is good. It reminds me of a time long ago, when i was previously married. My husband at the time was an addict and he had gone into treatment for a month. The treatment center offered a spouse/family week. I went. We met and would discuss our feelings and listen to speakers, and every day they would have an addict sit in with our group. Poor souls, there were about 12 of us and 1 of them. We would tell our stories and cry and they would have to hear all the hurt they had caused. Then they would have the floor and share with us and what they were going thru. It was a good way to learn how they were feeling and vice versa. For some reason, you just don't get that when it's coming from your spouse (they have a motive or you think they are lying...etc). So, anyway, I thank everyone for helping see this thru another set of lenses.
whichwayisup Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 I know I'd never do this ever again. The pain he has gone thru and the pain I have gone thru...just not worth it. I dream for the day that him and I become bored. I don't want drama and I just want a happy normal life with him. I miss the day in and day out routines. YOU know this, but he doesn't. Time and alot of effort (not only in words, but in actions) will show him that you can be trustworthy again. Do counselling, work on you. Do marriage counselling together. IF he isn't ready to go, go on your own. Be an open book, don't hide ANYTHING. Communicate, be honest, listen to him and really sympathize, empathize with him. Some say it takes up to 2 years to get the marriage back. Don't rush him, be patient and make him feel loved, secure and wanted.
MarriedLife Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 fine you cheated, you're remorseful, you get you did wrong, The two of you need to rebuild and MOVE FORWARD. Don't come across so needy. It might backfire and he'll start taking advantage of your remorsefulness. Don't beat yourself up. We all make mistakes. You sound like you have a good heart at your core. good luck!
Author prisonbreak Posted March 4, 2008 Author Posted March 4, 2008 We were not married yet, actually it was only a month after the engagement. And yea I hear what you're saying about coming across as needy, he totally took advantage of that. The whole dynamics of the relationship changed. It's starting to balance out now, but it's hard not to over do it.
twice_shy Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 I need help from someone who has been in either of our shoes. I have been in his shoes. And you have to realize, what you did to him will stick with him forever. He will forever, once in a while, think about what you did to him. Thats why I say if cheating is involved, its better for the couple to not be together. You aren't even married yet and you cheated. I know you want him back, and he isn't thinking clearly and is probably overwhelmed with bad feelings of losing you, but when you are together he is going to remember you as a cheater. I am truly remorseful, I love him with all my heart and I want to show him how much I love him for the rest of my life, I want him home so I can show him. He doesn't want to come home and I'm sad and confused. Honestly, what can you really do to show him you aren't a cheater? I subscribe to the idea "once a cheater always a cheater". Honestly, the only way you could even come close to showing him you won't cheat again is to become a hermit and never go anywhere. Cuz afterall, if you are with him all the time, you can't be cheating. But nobody would be willing to do that and anyone on the betrayed side wouldn't want a partner that feels like a prisoner too. I'm sorry, in my opinion this relationship is doomed. Even if you two get back together, things may seem ok on the surface, but for him, deep inside, it isn't ever going to be right.
twice_shy Posted March 5, 2008 Posted March 5, 2008 And yea I hear what you're saying about coming across as needy, he totally took advantage of that. How so????
Author prisonbreak Posted March 5, 2008 Author Posted March 5, 2008 Once Bitten (Hehe)- You said; "Thats why I say if cheating is involved, its better for the couple to not be together. You aren't even married yet and you cheated" But aren't there sucess stories? There has to be! You said; "I know you want him back, and he isn't thinking clearly and is probably overwhelmed with bad feelings of losing you, but when you are together he is going to remember you as a cheater" But he has been moved out for 2 months now and has just now (the last 2 wks) chose to forgive me. He said he was able to do this thru the things he has learned in counseling. He goes every week as well and has been for a few months. I know this is still so short, in the whole picture, but I don't think he wants to try to make this work out of fear of losing me, don't you think that would've set in a while ago? And if that is his reason, is it a bad one? If he decides life without me will be harder than working thru this, than what's so wrong with that? At this point I'd be happy for ANY reason! You said; "Honestly, what can you really do to show him you aren't a cheater? I subscribe to the idea "once a cheater always a cheater" So NOT TRUE. In my case anyway. I'd rather end things than go thru this again. You said; "You aren't even married yet and you cheated" What, it would have been better if I had waited till I was married? As for him taking advantage of me coming off as needy? Well he knew I was at his complete mercy. He'd call me over when he was sad and crying, I'd go rushing over to console him, we'd have sex, then he'd sent me away saying nothing has changed and he still doesn't want me back. He didn't have plans for NYE and knew that I did, so i invited him. We had fun and sex and then he'd sent me away once again. Another time, he was going to Mx for a wedding and he took me along and the whole trip he was distant, no emotion, not really talking, cuddling...etc. He even told me, the confident girl he fell in love with wasn't there and he was attracted to the old me, not this new, emotional open one I've become. Basically, if he said jump, I'd say how high! But I thought thats what i needed to do, to show him how much I loved him. But I realized trust isn't build that way. There needs to be 2 people involved for the trust to be built. Right now we are both building the trust again. Openness, honesty and talking from our hearts, building intimacy and working on communication. We see each other 3 nights a week and have 4 days to ourselves, where we do our counseling, journaling, praying and reading. I believe if we can both heal ourselves individually, then the 2 of us can come together and build a new last love. I have faith that this will work. I think and hope we can a have better marriage than if none of this would have happened. He even said "it would've been something else down the road if it wasn't this, it may have been me who cheated on you!" Oh, LS's please wish for the best. I really am a good person who really effed up. i'd give anything to go back to that weekend and do what I should've done!!!
Darth Vader Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Darth, I should be prepared. He would have every reason to call it quits and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I understand the money may be cheap, but knowing your sitting in therapy for an hour because of her, you'd really have to want to be there. Therapy isn't fun. How about you? I take it your wife cheated. Did you try to make it work with her? Would you have been willing if she would have done anything to make it right? Perhaps he doesn't have what it takes to move on right now, self image being shot right now. Don't assume that everyone has had a spouse cheat on them. Some in here are from families where a parent has cheated. You rarely hear anything from them.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 But aren't there sucess stories? There has to be! Hey... Look up the thread by Reboot. It's called My Story. His wife ran around on him and he put things back together. Read it, there is a very powerful message in there. Don't assume that everyone has had a spouse cheat on them. Some in here are from families where a parent has cheated. You rarely hear anything from them. Ahem... Yes Darth that is very true. Lot's of the people here with kids, be they WS, OW, or BS, don't really want to hear from those of us who have had to deal with parental situations like this. It's easier to pretend it doesnt affect them Besides, a good chunk of them have parents who were cheaters themselves. Sin's of the father and such.
Darth Vader Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 I have been in his shoes. And you have to realize, what you did to him will stick with him forever. He will forever, once in a while, think about what you did to him. Thats why I say if cheating is involved, its better for the couple to not be together. You aren't even married yet and you cheated. I know you want him back, and he isn't thinking clearly and is probably overwhelmed with bad feelings of losing you, but when you are together he is going to remember you as a cheater. Honestly, what can you really do to show him you aren't a cheater? I subscribe to the idea "once a cheater always a cheater". Honestly, the only way you could even come close to showing him you won't cheat again is to become a hermit and never go anywhere. Cuz afterall, if you are with him all the time, you can't be cheating. But nobody would be willing to do that and anyone on the betrayed side wouldn't want a partner that feels like a prisoner too. I'm sorry, in my opinion this relationship is doomed. Even if you two get back together, things may seem ok on the surface, but for him, deep inside, it isn't ever going to be right. I agree wholeheartedly! The memory of the cheating will always be there!
Darth Vader Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Ahem... Yes Darth that is very true. Lot's of the people here with kids, be they WS, OW, or BS, don't really want to hear from those of us who have had to deal with parental situations like this. It's easier to pretend it doesnt affect them Besides, a good chunk of them have parents who were cheaters themselves. Sin's of the father and such. Either that, or they just don't give a DAMN!
twice_shy Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 Once Bitten (Hehe)- You said; "Thats why I say if cheating is involved, its better for the couple to not be together. You aren't even married yet and you cheated" But aren't there sucess stories? There has to be! Even if there are supposed "success stories" out there, that doesn't mean everything is all well and good. It could be a success story for the betrayer, especially if the betrayed puts on a good front and things seem normal. I did the same thing when I was betrayed. I tried to go on and act like it never happened, but deep down, all was not right. And I don't think all is ever right, no matter how it looks on the surface, with the betrayed party. Deep down there will always be that pain and a little resentment that they are simply bottling up. You said; "I know you want him back, and he isn't thinking clearly and is probably overwhelmed with bad feelings of losing you, but when you are together he is going to remember you as a cheater" But he has been moved out for 2 months now and has just now (the last 2 wks) chose to forgive me. He said he was able to do this thru the things he has learned in counseling. He goes every week as well and has been for a few months. I know this is still so short, in the whole picture, but I don't think he wants to try to make this work out of fear of losing me, don't you think that would've set in a while ago? And if that is his reason, is it a bad one? Yes, if that is the reason it is absolutely a bad one. Because what he is thinking is he doesn't want to lose you because he thinks he can't do better. You have put a very big reason for him to be insecure. He will think he is faulty, undesirable because you chose to cheat on him. So yes, it is a bad reason to stay. You said; "Honestly, what can you really do to show him you aren't a cheater? I subscribe to the idea "once a cheater always a cheater" So NOT TRUE. In my case anyway. I'd rather end things than go thru this again. You did it once, you can do it again. Hell, the 7 year itch hasn't even set in with you, and you already cheated. You said; "You aren't even married yet and you cheated" What, it would have been better if I had waited till I was married? No, the point was, things haven't even gotten stale for you two yet. So if your relationship is young and you already cheated, I'd hate to see you when you get that itch when things get same old same old. As for him taking advantage of me coming off as needy? Well he knew I was at his complete mercy. He'd call me over when he was sad and crying, I'd go rushing over to console him, we'd have sex, then he'd sent me away saying nothing has changed and he still doesn't want me back. That right there shows me it won't work. he isn't thinking clearly. Right now we are both building the trust again. Openness, honesty and talking from our hearts, building intimacy and working on communication. We see each other 3 nights a week and have 4 days to ourselves, where we do our counseling, journaling, praying and reading. I believe if we can both heal ourselves individually, then the 2 of us can come together and build a new last love. I have faith that this will work. I think and hope we can a have better marriage than if none of this would have happened. Why do cheaters say this? What on earth makes you think it will be better? As someone betrayed, I can tell you, unless one is a cuckold, there is no way it will be better. Not saying it can't be good, although the odds are heavily against it, but they in no way shape or form will be better. Better would be that one of the interested party isn't a cheater. He even said "it would've been something else down the road if it wasn't this, it may have been me who cheated on you!" Meaning what? that if time went on and you didn't cheat that he would have? Or that he would cheat if it goes any further in an effort to even the score? Either answer, its not the makings of a good relationship. If someone said that to me, I'd be like, "have a nice life, see ya". And you wanted the opinion of someone that is in his shoes. I was in his shoes, and I'll never be there again in the sense that I will be struggling with whether to stay with someone who has cheated. I advise anyone that has been cheated on, one strike and they are out. move on.
Author prisonbreak Posted March 6, 2008 Author Posted March 6, 2008 Twice Shy- I'm not going to disect your post and defend myself. Right now we are trying to make it work. All I can do is hope for the best. You have done nothing but twist my words or just read it thru your own set of tunnel vision glasses. I don't expect you to condone what I did or like it. I came on here for support regarding my original thread, "How to cope with wanting him home". I guess I've gotten more than I've asked for. Do I deserve it? You bet. I already know he deserves better, that he should leave, that I'm a horrible person, but thanks for reminding me, even tho I never forgot in the 1st place. When days seems so unbarable I try to do things, positive things to better myself and to learn. I thought I was able to come on here to help process, but now I know to come here if I want another swift kick in the gut. As you write some of this stuff, are you secretly wishing your ex who cheated on you was reading your words? Actually, dont even respond. I'm done with this thread.
Woggle Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 You are not a horrible person but you need to realize that he has very good reasons for not trusting you and being leary of gettiung back together. You guys wren't even married yet and you cheated so who knows what you will do a few years down the road when you are bored and you love him like a brother. I am sorry if that sounds harsh but that is exactly what he is thinking.
Arch Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 If you have been cheated on you can never trust that person again, it doesn't matter how long of a time you are with them because when ever you look at them all you think about is them ****ing someone else. Sorry but I don't think any relationship that involved cheating will end well.
LakesideDream Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Twice Shy- I'm not going to disect your post and defend myself. Right now we are trying to make it work. All I can do is hope for the best. You have done nothing but twist my words or just read it thru your own set of tunnel vision glasses. I don't expect you to condone what I did or like it. I came on here for support regarding my original thread, "How to cope with wanting him home". I guess I've gotten more than I've asked for. Do I deserve it? You bet. I already know he deserves better, that he should leave, that I'm a horrible person, but thanks for reminding me, even tho I never forgot in the 1st place. When days seems so unbarable I try to do things, positive things to better myself and to learn. I thought I was able to come on here to help process, but now I know to come here if I want another swift kick in the gut. As you write some of this stuff, are you secretly wishing your ex who cheated on you was reading your words? Actually, dont even respond. I'm done with this thread. Prisonbreak, I gave you my opinion days ago early in the thread. I'd like to give you my "hope" for you. Love is ephemeral, It's the most difficult thing in the world to find, and equally difficult to nuture and grow. Your situation could have been worse. As you say it happened very early in your engagement. You are also lucky in that your SO is willing to try to make it work with you. People are all different. Maybe your relationship will survive, and prosper. Personally I hope so. I've lived a long time, and I know for absolutely sure that life is much richer when you share it with someone you are in love with. Hopefully you are both headed down life's path together now. It'll be harder because of the things you have already gone through. If you both have learned from your mistake, maybe, hopefully your relationship can become stronger around it. I hope so. All of us are better when we become a "We". Best of luck, honestly.
twice_shy Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Twice Shy- I'm not going to disect your post and defend myself. Right now we are trying to make it work. All I can do is hope for the best. You have done nothing but twist my words or just read it thru your own set of tunnel vision glasses. I don't expect you to condone what I did or like it. I came on here for support regarding my original thread, "How to cope with wanting him home". I guess I've gotten more than I've asked for. Do I deserve it? You bet. I already know he deserves better, that he should leave So then why not do whats best for him and end it? You just said it yourself, "he deserves better". I thought I was able to come on here to help process, but now I know to come here if I want another swift kick in the gut. Well what were you looking for when you wanted to hear from people that are in your shoes AND HIS? I was in his shoes and I am telling you like it is. Sorry you don't like it, but I can tell you exactly whats going through his mind and I said so. If you don't want to know from the "other side", then don't ask. As you write some of this stuff, are you secretly wishing your ex who cheated on you was reading your words? Nope, I could care less what she does. She is someone elses problem, as you shouldn't be your bf's problem any longer.
twice_shy Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 If you have been cheated on you can never trust that person again, it doesn't matter how long of a time you are with them because when ever you look at them all you think about is them ****ing someone else. Sorry but I don't think any relationship that involved cheating will end well. Arch, save your breath, or fingers I should say. She doesn't want to hear that. She only wants to hear how great it can be again.
Darth Vader Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 As scary as it sounds Prison, you are hearing from people who have really be messed over by someone else's actions............ Your boyfriend may very well be thinking these things, but, hasn't said them yet, he may not have hit that anger stage, yet. For some it may take a long time to hit that stage. Would it be better if your boyfriend were saying these things? From what's being said here, you may be able to sort of picture your boyfriend saying it to you. It may be the way he's still feeling.
twice_shy Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 As scary as it sounds Prison, you are hearing from people who have really be messed over by someone else's actions............ Your boyfriend may very well be thinking these things, but, hasn't said them yet, he may not have hit that anger stage, yet. You can bet that is true. The anger stage comes after the self-pity stage. When the betrayed first finds out, there may be a little anger, and some people may be just flat out angry from the get go, but for others, there will be a period of "what did I do to deserve this" or "how could they have done this to me". And in that time they don't think clearly. They are scared. Scared of losing the one that betrayed them. but once the smoke clears and the betrayed are starting to think more clearly, THAT is when the anger stage will hit. some will say the anger stage is when they aren't thinking clearly. I think it is at that stage where they came to their senses.
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