phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 So be gentle with me, please. I've been in my EMR for almost two years. He moved into his own apartment last year on D-Day and it's been a see-saw ever since. Most days I realize I'm pretty delusional about the whole thing, especially since our relationship is truly romantic and he says he wants to be with me and we talk about getting married; but he's still fence-sitting and not making any concrete plans for a divorce. Lately he's been talking about moving back in with her for financial reasons "even though he doesn't want to" - and I've made it absolutely clear to him that if he does, he and I are totally, completely through forever and always. Willpower notwithstanding, I just don't think I could go through all that hell all over again. (The waiting, harassment from W, etc., etc.) So I've implemented limited no contact until he's decided whether or not he wants to go back home. (We work together, so NO contact is impossible.) If he goes home and that's truly what he wants, then I want him to be happy. But let's face it: I WANT him to be with ME. And I'm HURTING right now. I've never asked him to choose me over her but that doesn't negate my pain. So I need help, and I need support, and I need a safe place where people won't judge me and give me a hard time if I say something stupid... because this really is a rollercoaster for me. Some days I'm strong and okay and the anger gives me a clear mind. Other days I struggle really hard not to pick up the phone and beg him to... well, you know. CHOOSE me. Especially in light of the fact that he's said he's been so unhappy with her, for years. Trust me, I've read the info and researched the stats... 3%, right? So chances are excellent that he WILL go home and I will never have my happily ever after with him, and I will have to deal with it. I'll try to deal with it. All I'm asking for is some support.
Meaplus3 Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 So be gentle with me, please. I've been in my EMR for almost two years. He moved into his own apartment last year on D-Day and it's been a see-saw ever since. Most days I realize I'm pretty delusional about the whole thing, especially since our relationship is truly romantic and he says he wants to be with me and we talk about getting married; but he's still fence-sitting and not making any concrete plans for a divorce. Lately he's been talking about moving back in with her for financial reasons "even though he doesn't want to" - and I've made it absolutely clear to him that if he does, he and I are totally, completely through forever and always. Willpower notwithstanding, I just don't think I could go through all that hell all over again. (The waiting, harassment from W, etc., etc.) So I've implemented limited no contact until he's decided whether or not he wants to go back home. (We work together, so NO contact is impossible.) If he goes home and that's truly what he wants, then I want him to be happy. But let's face it: I WANT him to be with ME. And I'm HURTING right now. I've never asked him to choose me over her but that doesn't negate my pain. So I need help, and I need support, and I need a safe place where people won't judge me and give me a hard time if I say something stupid... because this really is a rollercoaster for me. Some days I'm strong and okay and the anger gives me a clear mind. Other days I struggle really hard not to pick up the phone and beg him to... well, you know. CHOOSE me. Especially in light of the fact that he's said he's been so unhappy with her, for years. Trust me, I've read the info and researched the stats... 3%, right? So chances are excellent that he WILL go home and I will never have my happily ever after with him, and I will have to deal with it. I'll try to deal with it. All I'm asking for is some support. Hi, Sorry your hurting right now, however thing's can change if you take the right step's to make that happen. First off.. he's stringing you along here, IMO.. this could go on for month's.. who know's? You have limited NC and that's a good thing. When he is free and clear of other obligation's and that is clear.. then and only then would I say ok, go after him. Fact is he's not. and only he can change that and until he does and you know that for certain.. you are wasting your time. Hug's.. to you stay strong. AP:)
Lyssa Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Phoenixgirl, He's going back and forth now, isn't he? If so, that isn't good. Maybe he needs more time. Not trying to make you feel worse but if he really wanted to be with you, he wouldn't think about going back for financial reasons - even though he doesn't want to - that kinda says something.
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Read stampdaddy's threads. You might gain alot of insight by reading his situation and save yourself alot of pain.. The best thing you can do for yourself is leave him alone. Do complete no contact at work (meaning no personal conversations, only work related issues) and stay away from him as well. Only deal with him when absolutely necessary. Make it very clear to him that it's over until you see the papers are signed - That you don't want to be the OW in his life. If you stay on as the OW, all that does is give him more reasons NOT to do anything. Life will be as it is. Him at home with his wife and you staying the OW. You lose unless you want this rollercoaster ride you're on to last a very long time. You also have to know he's still lying to his wife, so he more than likely is with you as well. Shield your heart, try to detach, spend time with family and friends, keep busy. Get some fun hobby's, pamper yourself and just try your best not to cave if he does contact you.
OWoman Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 So be gentle with me, please. I've been in my EMR for almost two years. He moved into his own apartment last year on D-Day and it's been a see-saw ever since. Most days I realize I'm pretty delusional about the whole thing, especially since our relationship is truly romantic and he says he wants to be with me and we talk about getting married; but he's still fence-sitting and not making any concrete plans for a divorce. Lately he's been talking about moving back in with her for financial reasons "even though he doesn't want to" - and I've made it absolutely clear to him that if he does, he and I are totally, completely through forever and always. Willpower notwithstanding, I just don't think I could go through all that hell all over again. (The waiting, harassment from W, etc., etc.) So I've implemented limited no contact until he's decided whether or not he wants to go back home. (We work together, so NO contact is impossible.) If he goes home and that's truly what he wants, then I want him to be happy. But let's face it: I WANT him to be with ME. And I'm HURTING right now. I've never asked him to choose me over her but that doesn't negate my pain. So I need help, and I need support, and I need a safe place where people won't judge me and give me a hard time if I say something stupid... because this really is a rollercoaster for me. Some days I'm strong and okay and the anger gives me a clear mind. Other days I struggle really hard not to pick up the phone and beg him to... well, you know. CHOOSE me. Especially in light of the fact that he's said he's been so unhappy with her, for years. Trust me, I've read the info and researched the stats... 3%, right? So chances are excellent that he WILL go home and I will never have my happily ever after with him, and I will have to deal with it. I'll try to deal with it. All I'm asking for is some support. PxG, You want him to choose you. But you've never told him that that's what you want. Perhaps you think it's obvious and he should know, or perhaps you're not wanting to put pressure on him or be responsible for the bust-up of his marriage. But if you are wanting him to choose you, but not telling him, and expecting him to know... can you blame him for his confused behaviour? Perhaps he's unsure where he stands with you? My MM left his W for me. But only at the point where we had the discussion where I told him that I wanted us to be together. It was only once he heard it from my own lips, my saying that that was what I wanted, that it affirmed what he's also wanted but hadn't dared to give voice to in case somehow my agenda was different, and he might jeopardise things by acting on that. If you've said to him, I want you to choose me and I want you to show me that by finalising your D so that we can be together, and then he still oscillates and delays - then you know you've got a hard road ahead if you still want to be together. But if you're upfront about it and put it all on the table - what you want, how you're feeling with the way things stand, what you want him to do to show you he's serious - and he acts on that, you know he's serious about wanting to be with you. It's risky - but no more risky than hoping he can read your mind. Good luck PxG - there are a number of us here whose MMs have left their Ws for them, just as there are some whose stories have had less happy endings.
nextel Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I can't remember whether it was on Oprah or Dr. Phil, but I remember OW were being told that the reason why men keep them as OW is because they never tell MM exactly what they want. You have got to set the tone from day one and stick to it. A man is like a child. They will try you and see what they can get away with. A man will only do what you let him do. Never be afraid of putting your foot down. You can't lose something that you never had in the first place. At this point, ultimatiums wont work because you are emotionally invested in him. If you set any boundaries as you have with the NC, then you have to be prepared to lose. IMHO, if he truly wants to be with you, even finances wont stop him from being with you. F the statistics. 3% can mean a million people. Who knows? What you need to do is focus on you. If you want to be with him, find a way to charm him. Have fun when you see him, make him laugh, take him into a world he not experienced. Those little things will make him decide whether he is wasting your time or if he wants to be with you. Its ok to hurt. Its ok to feel pain. Its ok to wish. Its ok to want to be the one. Just remember that, when it does not work out the way you want it to, its not the end of the world. Its a new beginning for you.
Author phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 I HAVE told him that I want to be with him, and that I want him to choose me - I've just told him that I will never FORCE that decision because it his and his alone to make. I fully understand that in many ways that is giving away my own power; but at the same time, she's on the other side saying "CHOOSE ME OR ELSE" and that just makes him want to rebel, and it's not working for her. It's one of the reasons he keeps running back to me. But at the same time, I think it's one of the reasons that he doesn't really believe me when I say that if he goes back, I'm completely done with being the OW. Because I never really wanted to be in this position in the first place; I'm not trying to paint myself as the victim in saying that I "fell in love with the wrong man" but I didn't go into this trying to be a homewrecker either. We've broken up before and I never had the willpower to stick with it. But he never went back to her before, either! As much as it hurts, as much as I love him, I think you're right - even though he's still sMM for the time being, I do have to stop being the OW and implement complete NC until (?) he figures out exactly what he wants. If that's me, that's great. But I don't have to base all my happiness around that, do I? I was happy before I met him and I can be again.
nextel Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 But I don't have to base all my happiness around that, do I? I was happy before I met him and I can be again. Thats the key right there. You were happy before, now you want someone to make you happier. Remember that.
stampdaddy Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I will save you a little time from reading ALL of my threads and just get to the bottom of it for you, realizing everybody's siutations are different, and I do NOT believe in stats, whatever the stat, 3%, 2%, 1%, I WOULD BE THAT 1%... thats how I believe in myself, HOWEVER! My "beautiful, wonderful relationship with a beautiful, wonderful MW might IS OVER, after just shy of 4 YEARS... Now, we got "found out" back in July, so 8 months ago, and STILL have been seeing each other.. And I believe WE held on to it for way too long.. Now, of course hind sight is a bitch.. WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED, is I should have initiated and STUCK WITH NO CONTACT. there is no saying what would have happened or where WE would be if that was done, maybe WE would be nowhere, BUT I WOULD BE 8 MONTHS FURTHER DOWN MY ROAD... What did I "really get" out of those extra 8 months?? NOTHING!! Sure, a few lunch dates, sex dates, coffee dates, and it all felt UGLY.. NOW WHAT DO I HAVE?? I have a MW who is STILL at home with her H, but in a personal hell, because she has been found out yet again (3,4 maybe even 5 times total, including a face-to-face after a romantic, wine lunch the week before Christmas), so who knows what will happen with the marriage, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, we have wrecked US possibly from all of the damage that WE created by hanging on to each other too long.. Now, this is not to say that maybe one day we can fix the damage and heal, but with the "stats" already so low, we would have had a hard enough time making things work, although I believed we could... I guess what I am saying to you is, YOU HAVE TO TRY NC, it is your ONLY CHOICE. He either makes his move, OR he doesnt.. BUT HE ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT if you stay "as is"...
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Fence sitters will sit the fence for as long as you enable them to. Even limited contact allows him to keep sitting the fence. If you want him to make a choice, give him a real choice to make. Say... "I love you, but unless you divorce and have an iron clad lease to you own place you are not to see me or contact me in any way, shape or form. Period." Then... walk away. If he tries to contact you, ask him if he is divorced. If the answer is anything less than a definite no, remind him of your terms and hang up. Do the same with emails - if he emails you, ask him if he is divorced. If the answer is anything less than a definite no - then remind him of your terms, let him know not to contact you and tell him that you are blocking his email. Seriously... that is the only way he is going to get off the fence. He will have no choice but to do that if he wants to be with you. Otherwise, any inch of "OW'ness" you give him, he will continue to take a mile and keep you right where you are. Don't make that an option. I guarantee you if you do, that is the option he will take. Walking away is your decision. There is nothing to rebel against, no ultimatums - just a simple "I'm walking away from being an OW. If you want to make me ONLY woman, you know where to find me when you are divorced." Jumping off the fence will be his decision - and it won't be forced. He will jump off the fence to be with you if he wants to.
OWoman Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I HAVE told him that I want to be with him, and that I want him to choose me If you've told him where you stand, then you've done your bit. Now it's up to him to do his. Or you to find someone who's man enough to go after what they want and get it.
Author phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Thank you, guys. This is all what I needed to hear. The hard part is MAINTAINING NC... because I've tried that before, and I always caved! (And he knows it, which is why I think he doesn't believe me when I say that if he goes home it's over between us.) So my next question is - do I nullify my current limited NC by calling him and telling him about the full NC? Asking to meet - in a neutral place, because if he comes here or if I go there, OMG I know I will cave. Or do I wait until I see him at work and bring it up, try to work it into the work day? Or do I just go full NC, since I've already (sort of) addressed it with him, but I didn't go into the whole "we're going NC RIGHT NOW" bit. I'm just trying to do what's best for ME and to be honest, I'm struggling with that. I know what I WANT and that gets confused in my mind with what's actually BEST.
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 You don't need to meet him to have that conversation. And, DO NOT talk about it at work, that's the last place you should have those types of conversations..Keep the NC going, until he contacts you- THEN tell him. Be firm and even if it kills you, tell him it's over until he's out and the papers are signed.
stampdaddy Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Thank you, guys. This is all what I needed to hear. The hard part is MAINTAINING NC... because I've tried that before, and I always caved! (And he knows it, which is why I think he doesn't believe me when I say that if he goes home it's over between us.) So my next question is - do I nullify my current limited NC by calling him and telling him about the full NC? Asking to meet - in a neutral place, because if he comes here or if I go there, OMG I know I will cave. Or do I wait until I see him at work and bring it up, try to work it into the work day? Or do I just go full NC, since I've already (sort of) addressed it with him, but I didn't go into the whole "we're going NC RIGHT NOW" bit. I'm just trying to do what's best for ME and to be honest, I'm struggling with that. I know what I WANT and that gets confused in my mind with what's actually BEST. My advice is to just write a letter.. Then you can't get all caught up in his emotions, manipulation, empty promises lies, whatever (not saying he is lying), etc.. Do not say you are waiting, and do not make it overly compicated. SIMPLY SAY: This current relationship with YOU is not working for ME anymore...
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Does your MM and his wife have children? How long have they been married?
Author phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) I think they've been together a total of six or seven years, married maybe four or five. They have no kids together so IF they get a D that wouldn't be an issue. He does have his own place right now but as I said, is contemplating moving back. We've been on-again off-again ever since D-Day and it's been hell for me - harassment from the W, etc., etc. I SHOULD HAVE gone NC a long time ago, like stampdaddy said. Thing is, he doesn't HATE her, he's not that kind of person. They had problems in their marriage long before I ever came along - that's not coming from him but from various other people who know them. They fought alot and still do (mostly about me these days, I guess). But he still cares about her and I don't think has resolved any of the feelings of guilt from D-Day. If nothing else, he needs to work through that stuff before he could pursue anything with me. (He wanted to move in with me on D-Day, but I wouldn't allow it.) So... here I go. NC. And I know for a fact that he will try to nullify that at work, and I will have to stay strong. Goddess help me. Edited March 2, 2008 by phoenixgirl
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Ask yourself this. If you weren't in the picture (let's say pre-affair) would he still be thinking of leaving his wife? As it stands now, he's possibly leaving her for you. That's why he doesn't hate her because she's really not done anything wrong. He allowed someone else into his heart and now he has to choose.
kiababy Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Hey Pheonix girl, I'm still an OW but before that I had an on and off again with a man who was 'separated' but still living with his wife. After 4 years of going back and forth he finally got his divorce. You know what? He wasn't the same fun guy I thought he was when he was still married. I hung in there for 6 months but in the end I couldn't even remember what I was so attracted to in the first place. Sadly, the grass isn't greener.... The other thing is this: if you two do end up together and down the road you get into a major argument (trust me, you will), the first thing out of his mouth will probably be: "I left my WIFE for you"....
kiababy Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 ...he didn't leave his wife for me, they already had issues when I came along.
Author phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 I know he had contemplated leaving her in the past (before he ever met me) but never had. They even had a "system" worked out for when/if he did - which I won't explain since it's TMI. But the thing is that when he DID move out last year, he wasn't ready yet - she kicked him out, even though she recanted at the last minute but he followed through anyway because his pride was hurt and he was mad. If he had made the decision himself to move out then, it might have been different.
kiababy Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 You're in a terrible position and I really feel for you...take care of YOU right now, ok? ...hugs....
Author phoenixgirl Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 I'm trying. It's hard, when all I want to do is pick up the phone and call him, hear his voice. I know it sounds delusion and all, but I know that he really does love me. He's never lied to me about anything at all, he's never "promised" anything. He just sits on the fence, afraid to make a decision one way or another. And of course the sane part of me feels that if he TRULY loved me, why should it be that difficult for him to make a choice? I can make excuses for him all day long but it really boils down to being a real man and making a choice. She knows about me and it hurts her; every day he sits on the fence, it only causes more pain. So I guess it's time for ME to be the man and make the choice for him!
nadiaj2727 Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 (He wanted to move in with me on D-Day, but I wouldn't allow it.) Good for you. I'm so glad you didn't let him "fall" from her arms to yours. Your situation sounds so much like my old situation with xMM. I had to go no contact and walk away. I felt guilty because I loved him and I truly wanted to be with him. But I had to do it for myself; I no longer wanted to be the OW (like yours, mine was living on his own but wasn't taking any steps to get divorced, and it was clear he was waffling). After I broke it off, he went back to live with his wife (who didn't ever know about me, as far as I know), and that just showed me how he didn't really know WHAT he wanted, and that he was afraid to take action and afraid to be alone. (I wouldn't let him live with me either even though he wanted to). He still contacts me and says he is getting divorced and then he hopes I will go out with him. Yeah, when pigs fly. The thing is, I didn't want someone whose hand I had to hold in order to do the right steps to be with me (and I can tell that you don't, either). I agree with kia that that would only bite me in the butt later, because his personality type was the kind that liked decisions to be made FOR him, and he would see it as ME making him leave his wife. If we didn't work out, or even had a fight, he would have held it against me. I did not want it to be like that -- I wanted someone who was okay on their own and who didn't NEED me, but who loved me enough to want me to be the only woman in his life. You sound strong, and like you've done a lot of thinking, good for you. Best wishes.
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