Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 In the first two weeks of a relationship: Name three things about an ex that attracted you when you first started dating. Then name three things that concerned you or turned you off around that same time. After you broke up, what would you name as the primary cause/causes of the breakup? Could you have predicted this based on your first impressions? My first example (first boyfriend/ HS sweetheart) Attractions: -Smart -Deep -Adored me Concerns: -Manipulative -Insecure -Physical attraction to him wasn't intense The three initial concerns turned out to be long term problems in our relationship. I eventually felt smothered and broke up with him. In other words, my intuitions were accurate. My theory is that we know what aspects of the relationship will cause it to end within the first couple of weeks that we meet someone. Thoughts? Examples?
Trialbyfire Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 In the first three weeks with my ex-H, I wasn't attracted to him at all. If anything, I was repulsed because he was so aggressive in his pursuit. It took years of pursuit and a seeming change of attitude, to get me hooked. I should have listened to my first gut instinct that he was bad news.
aRoseforJada Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Attractions: good looks, chemistry, down to earth personality Concerns: his age, too sex crazed, seemed very private about his past found out later in the relationship that he was married! I felt so stupid, I should have seen the signs but couldn't see through the fog as they say. Thats why he was so private and wanted sex all the time I agree with you, I seen the warnings the first couple of times we went out.
Author Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Author Posted March 1, 2008 Yes, good. This is backing up what I'm starting to think. More data: Second boyfriend Good stuff -Probably genius intelligence -Hyper-ambitious -Mysterious Concerns -Egotistical -Perfectionist -Only interested in me when other options fell through Outcome: He broke it off with me and got married within a year afterward. I was never really his type and I sort of knew that from the beginning. Third boyfriend Good stuff -Pretty boy -Easygoing -destined to earn money Bad stuff -materialistic -shallow -classist Outcome: He was really into hanging out with his wealthy, beautiful-people friends whose main interests were earning money. I never felt secure competing in this environment, and eventually broke it off with him. He ended up marrying one of the beautiful, ambitious girls who made me nervous in the first place.
xpaperxcutx Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Ex - sensitive - not bad-looking - somewhat ambitious later on: - needy/clingy - low self-esteem - lazy Outcome: Going on 21, jobless, and is probably still sitting in front of his computer pining over why I dumped him....
Touche Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Ex-Husband: The Good: Extremely intelligent Great Sense of Humor Attractive The Bad: Possessive Loud Set in his ways And yes, I did know all of this two weeks into our dating. He would get belligerent almost if I wanted a night home to myself and didn't want to see him. Plus, I worked for him and saw all his negatives and the way he treated me when I was just his employee - months before it got personal. No other boss ever made me run to the bathroom to cry. What a great idea for a thread this is.
Kamille Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Most recent ex Good: open-minded go-getter brilliant Bad: compulsive (smoking and eventually drinking fell in this category, as well as him compulsively always touching me) arrogant impatient I'm trying to formulate a comment. I was very hesitant to get involved with anyone within the first few weeks, so in a way I think I didn't pay much attention to the bad stuff. Rather I dismissed it as: meh, this is probably just a fling anyways. This might be withdrawal talking, but I really don't regret getting to know this man. I am just really thankful for everything he gave me and everything I learned while I was with him. I think part of why we are at the point where we are right now is due to the fact that I had too much respect for the good between us to let the bad take over.
melodymatters Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 I agree Kamille, and that is always my biggest problem : I ALWAYS go into relationships thinking it will be a fun little fling, so who cares that he's broke, got a crazy ex, etc. Now I am going to look for red flags earlier and with EVERYONE ! One ex- Good: So cool and confident financially succesful artistic Bad: controlling judgemental cheap And yes, I saw the first two right away, and the "good" ended up being bad in practice. ( Too cool, financially succesful because he was so cheap, artistic: the studio was more important than the relationship)
Star Gazer Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 You know, Story... When I was talking to my therapist on Thursday about selecting the right people to enter a relationship with, I whined, "But it takes soooo long to see the bad parts!" She responded, "No it doesn't. They're there from the beginning. You just need to learn how to take a step back and look at the entire picture." So I think you're really on to something here. However, Ex did a very, very good job of hiding the bad stuff from me in the first two weeks. As hard as I try, in the first 2-3 weeks I can only think of one thing! But by the end of the first month, I could see it all more (I just ignored it). Good: Ridiculously attractive Down to earth personality Sweet and affectionate Bad (in first 2 weeks): Incredibly moody Bad (withing first month): Selfish Emotionally detached Angered easily by trivial things Lazy in our relationship
Author Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Author Posted March 1, 2008 Possessive Loud Set in his ways And yes, I did know all of this two weeks into our dating. I'm wondering if being more mindful of these past outcomes can help us make better predictions in the future. Most recent ex compulsive (smoking and eventually drinking fell in this category, as well as him compulsively always touching me) arrogant impatient Hmm. What do you mean about the compulsive touching? Did you mention that in one of your threads? I had too much respect for the good between us to let the bad take over. So you didn't want to kill all the good feelings out of growing resentment about the bad? Now I am going to look for red flags earlier and with EVERYONE ! Every prospective mate will have some negatives, though, right? So how do we know which negatives are red flags and which are things we can live with? Good: So cool and confident financially succesful artistic Bad: controlling judgemental cheap And yes, I saw the first two right away, and the "good" ended up being bad in practice. ( Too cool, financially succesful because he was so cheap, artistic: the studio was more important than the relationship) I've had that experience, too. With my second boyfriend, I admired his drive and ambition, but he never viewed me as up to par. This left me with a huge inferiority complex when he dumped me.
OpenBook Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 My theory is that we know what aspects of the relationship will cause it to end within the first couple of weeks that we meet someone. Kinda like, the demise is built into the creation itself even before the beginning of it? I think you might be onto something there! With my exH, the beginning was more about seeking to fulfill my own needs (for security, to be loved, to belong to someone) than anything else. They blinded me to our incompatibilities. But the signs were there all along. It wasn't until after we'd gotten married and had a baby that I wised up. After that, the BF's I've had - well, I guess the same thing! The signs were there from the beginning. But I ignored them because I felt the "good stuff" outweighed them. But it didn't, in the end. They say marriage doesn't solve your problems, in fact it magnifies them 10x. I think this is true. We're all doomed.
sb129 Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Good: Interesting job Interested in me (I was on the rebound) Not bad looking Bad: MARRIED Insecure Manipulative Outcome: He is long gone. thank goodness.
Author Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Author Posted March 1, 2008 The signs were there from the beginning. But I ignored them because I felt the "good stuff" outweighed them. But it didn't, in the end. They say marriage doesn't solve your problems, in fact it magnifies them 10x. I think this is true. We're all doomed. Well, yes, but...all relationships have good points and warning signs in the beginning, yet some work out. What is the difference with the ones that end up lasting? Is it that the negatives are all minor? Is it that the negatives are not in core-values areas? Or is it that the individuals are accepting of the negatives and go into things with no illusions and their eyes open? Even in this case, resentment can build later when people "stuff" their unhappiness. I don't know the answers.
Kamille Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Well, yes, but...all relationships have good points and warning signs in the beginning, yet some work out. What is the difference with the ones that end up lasting? Is it that the negatives are all minor? Is it that the negatives are not in core-values areas? Or is it that the individuals are accepting of the negatives and go into things with no illusions and their eyes open? Even in this case, resentment can build later when people "stuff" their unhappiness. I don't know the answers. Very thought provoking. I think you're on to something. Hmm. What do you mean about the compulsive touching? Did you mention that in one of your threads? I don't think I mentionned it anywhere. What I mean by it is that he was always touching me, even at times when I asked him to ease up. I couldn't walk passed him to, say, get myself a glass of water, without being 'grabbed', sometimes for minutes at a time. He always felt that I should be willing to put off whatever I was doing (oil frying in the pan or not) because receiving or giving affection should be the priority. I think it was compulsive in that for me it was sometimes highly unpractical, yet it reassured him if I dropped everything for him, if only for a few minutes. Times when I didn't respond, he would become even more 'needy' with requests for affection. It threw him for a loop if you will. The same thing would happen with sex. If we didn't have sex for a couple of days, he would start showing signs of insecurity. Sorry, totally rambling on somewhat of an off-topic, but I think I need to type if only to sort things out for myself. So you didn't want to kill all the good feelings out of growing resentment about the bad? Exactly. I was starting to feel like we were losing sight of each other, of how much we loved and respected each other. Yet I didn't know how to stop being angry and hurt. I believed we both deserved better, whether together or each on our own.
Author Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Author Posted March 1, 2008 I couldn't walk passed him to, say, get myself a glass of water, without being 'grabbed', sometimes for minutes at a time. He always felt that I should be willing to put off whatever I was doing (oil frying in the pan or not) Someone mentioned that even the things that first seemed good eventually turned out to be negative. I wonder if this can work the other way, too, under the right circumstances. In other words, I wonder if the way he grabbed you like that could be sexy if you shared his spontaneous need for affection. Not saying that you should or shouldn't. This may be a factor of personality type. I find that getting interrupted is annoying when I'm trying to complete a task, but if I was horny enough for the other person, maybe I would like it. I also wonder about how some things that are endearing at first become annoying later, sometimes very quickly. Like when Spookie first met AS guy, she found some of his AS traits endearing at first and later a turn-off. Exactly. I was starting to feel like we were losing sight of each other, of how much we loved and respected each other. Yet I didn't know how to stop being angry and hurt. I believed we both deserved better, whether together or each on our own. I still wish I knew why sometimes the positives seem to trump the negatives, while other times it is the opposite.
Mustang Sally Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I have rarely been the dumpee in relationships. Usually was the dumper, or a lot of the time, I wasn't into a LTR - rather, just dating around. But there was one guy who dumped me when I was in college...It messed with my head for quite awhile. Silly, when I look back on it now. His good things: Good looking Older than me (that is a thing I had...still do) Great sense of humor His bad things: No ambition Immature Liar Unfortunately, the bad things weren't apparent to me within the first two weeks. They probably should have been, but I was too enamored with who/what I thought he was. The liar-part wasn't apparent to me until a few months into the relationship. The absolute stupidest part of the whole deal was, even when I found out that he was a liar, I still didn't have the good sense to break it off with him myself! No, like the naive girl I was...I hung on to him until he finally had the good sense to (mercifully, I now know) break it off with me. Ah, youth....
Author Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 I have rarely been the dumpee in relationships. Usually was the dumper, or a lot of the time, I wasn't into a LTR - rather, just dating around. But there was one guy who dumped me when I was in college...It messed with my head for quite awhile. Silly, when I look back on it now. His good things: Good looking Older than me (that is a thing I had...still do) Great sense of humor His bad things: No ambition Immature Liar Unfortunately, the bad things weren't apparent to me within the first two weeks. They probably should have been, but I was too enamored with who/what I thought he was. The liar-part wasn't apparent to me until a few months into the relationship. The absolute stupidest part of the whole deal was, even when I found out that he was a liar, I still didn't have the good sense to break it off with him myself! No, like the naive girl I was...I hung on to him until he finally had the good sense to (mercifully, I now know) break it off with me. Ah, youth.... Of course when you're the dumpee, the pain is ten times worse, for obvious reasons I suppose. My 2nd BF was the only one (of anyone serious) who dumped me, and it took me probably twenty years, very recently, before I stopped spending time ruminating over him and about why he rejected me. Even now if I were to see him at a reunion or run into him somewhere around my home town, I would be very nervous. (It has never happened BTW.) And when I think about getting my writing published, I always think about wanting him to know it. So silly.
Kamille Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Just remembered that my first first impression of ex-bf was that he was a player. I now know that that impression was wrong. Within a few weeks he had managed to convince me that he was very capable of commitment and fidelity. Which made me think, we have multiple first impressions, but the ones that we recall are the ones that are somehow confirmed. But when we get it into our heads that a person is arrogant, everytime that they do something we consider arrogant, it confirms our impression. Maybe we end up being on the look out for those. I know for me, having impressions confirmed over and over again, good or bad, are what makes or break a relationship. But if I somehow manage to understand why someone does something I consider as arrogance, then I may be able to overcome it.
Author Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 That is a really good point, Kamille. We don't remember the impressions that were proved wrong, only the ones that were proved correct. I've been thinking about first attraction, not just the good qualities we've been listing, but what makes you go "wow" about a person, and also, where does that "wow" hit you? Is it an intellectual wow, a wow at an emotional level, a wow in your loins, all of the above? And does that wow keep wowwing you into the long-term relationship? For example, the two "wows" that hit me about my H were his intellect and his integrity (kindness, generous, good listener, etc.) I continue to be actively impressed and moved by those characteristics in him. Physically, I remember thinking, he would be really attractive if only X, Y and Z were different.
e.clipse Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) i was reading through this thread, trying find some correlation between your proposed theory, Story, but i kept rejecting it. not purposely, mind you, but i just kept thinking, "Yes, but this doesn't apply to me; the reason for the demise of our relationship wasn't there in the beginning..." so, i thought harder, back to when he and i were friends. and guess what? it is there. the pretty: + he adored me to bits and pieces + he was so gentle, sweet, sentimental and passionate + i felt like i could look up to and admire him the ugly: + oh, so moody + snappy and stubborn + he was passionate and dramatic* in all fairness, during the first couple of weeks of our relationship (back when we were 17 and 18), it was mostly beautiful. i think that because of the qualities on the first list, i became attached to him so quickly. it just felt and was so good. the clashes were so minor, they were hardly noticeable much less memorable, today. however, before we became official BF+GF, we were friends. in fact, we met in a biology class two years prior, and ended up being (good) friends after. the only catch in our friendship, however, was that we both liked each other, and yet were to shy to admit it to one another. * in those two years that we were friends, we had several fall outs. mostly, we'd communicate via email and IM because we never had any other classes together. if we saw each other at school, we'd just smile at each other from across the hall or something of the like. but there were times when he would see me and turn away, as though he was upset. i remember i would call him on it via email/IM, and he wouldn't reply until days later, telling me he was upset for X reason. we would talk, work it out, and go back to being "friends." as more time went on, the fighting/fall outs increased. he would get upset at me for reasons like not being able to see/talk to me enough, and other silly things. and every time he got upset, instead of talking to me, he would get mad and just disappear. i'd only hear back from him after sending him emails/IMs, asking him if he was still angry. inclusively, he told me a couple of times that he didn't want to be my friend any more because we would always fight for silly reasons, and that it hurt him way too much to be getting angry and silent at me because he cared so much. and funnily enough, the first time he ever told me of his real feelings for me, was after a semi-big fight: we were laughing; then we argued over who-knows-what (something dumb); i asked if i could call him instead of talking via IM, he said No because he didn't want me to hear him crying; we kept talking on IM; he said he would never talk to me again, because it was for the best; he apologized and told me he loved me. so: moody, stubborn, dramatic and with passion-sprinkles all around. and that was the night i became his GF, actually. that was how it was, when we were friends. happy one minute, seething next; loving me another, and vowing to never see me again, after. up and down, up and down; mood swings and dramatic decisions based on immaturity and stubbornness. in our case, his passionate personality worked both ways: it could work with the love and make it beautiful or it could work with the moods and drama and make it hideous. today, we have finished an on-off type of relationship for the hundredth time. we both swear up and down that this time, it is for good, but the validity of our promises isn't very good anymore. we will see. but the point remains in that his bad qualities, which were present and very visible (albeit in hindsight) before we were dating, seemed to magnify tenfold after about a year into our relationship, which is when the chaos began. anyway, i feel enlightened, because, as i said above, our relationship was as sweet as honey in the beginning. but looking deeper, i can see how this theory does apply. the negative qualities he exhibited right before our relationship (because he morphed into a sugarcube later, only to revert again) were pretty much the qualities that led it to be where we are today: no where. i'm shocked. :eek: Edited March 3, 2008 by e.clipse
Author Storyrider Posted March 3, 2008 Author Posted March 3, 2008 * in those two years that we were friends, we had several fall outs. mostly, we'd communicate via email and IM because we never had any other classes together. if we saw each other at school, we'd just smile at each other from across the hall or something of the like. but there were times when he would see me and turn away, as though he was upset. i remember i would call him on it via email/IM, and he wouldn't reply until days later, telling me he was upset for X reason. we would talk, work it out, and go back to being "friends." as more time went on, the fighting/fall outs increased. he would get upset at me for reasons like not being able to see/talk to me enough, and other silly things. and every time he got upset, instead of talking to me, he would get mad and just disappear. i'd only hear back from him after sending him emails/IMs, asking him if he was still angry. Interesting. This is the same stuff he does now, trying to manipulate and control you and your emotions when he feels insecure. Yes, we really do see the stuff in the beginning. Your post was so long and thorough, e., and I know my response doesn't do it justice. I want to think more about what you've said. Star Gazer, somehow I completely missed your post the other day. Even though you didn't see his faults until a bit later, your therapist is right. They were there. I wonder if it took a while longer for those faults to come out b/c of his ability to charm you and cloak those faults early on. That is a fault in itself, I suppose. Two more observations from the responses so far: (1) Not only are the traits of the SO there in the beginning, but the dynamic in the relationship is established early on. Sometimes that dynamic sours or one person doesn't want to play the role anymore but can't break out of it. (2) The good traits, if they really wow us, sometimes blind us to the bad. I guess that is obvious, but not so obvious that we don't do it again every time! How can we predict whether the faults are going to be fatal or not? I'm still struggling with that one.
spookie Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 In the first two weeks of a relationship: Name three things about an ex that attracted you when you first started dating. Then name three things that concerned you or turned you off around that same time. After you broke up, what would you name as the primary cause/causes of the breakup? Could you have predicted this based on your first impressions? My first example (first boyfriend/ HS sweetheart) Attractions: -Smart -Deep -Adored me Concerns: -Manipulative -Insecure -Physical attraction to him wasn't intense The three initial concerns turned out to be long term problems in our relationship. I eventually felt smothered and broke up with him. In other words, my intuitions were accurate. My theory is that we know what aspects of the relationship will cause it to end within the first couple of weeks that we meet someone. Thoughts? Examples? Good: -adorable and affectionate -free-thinker -confident Bad: -seemed very bitter over parents' divorce years ago (this came out during our second-ever conversation) In the end his free-thinking rationality led him to believe he did not want a relationship with anyone, ever, because, as his parents' divorce taught him, relationships only tie you down and make you miserable. He was so afraid of being miserable every one of my actions was interpreted as an attempt to make him unhappy, to trap him. And his confidence led him to believe in more worthwhile pursuits than human intimacy, like music.
shadowplay Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) In the first two weeks of a relationship: Name three things about an ex that attracted you when you first started dating. Then name three things that concerned you or turned you off around that same time. After you broke up, what would you name as the primary cause/causes of the breakup? Could you have predicted this based on your first impressions? My first example (first boyfriend/ HS sweetheart) Attractions: -Smart -Deep -Adored me Concerns: -Manipulative -Insecure -Physical attraction to him wasn't intense The three initial concerns turned out to be long term problems in our relationship. I eventually felt smothered and broke up with him. In other words, my intuitions were accurate. My theory is that we know what aspects of the relationship will cause it to end within the first couple of weeks that we meet someone. Thoughts? Examples? Ex boyfriend: Three first impression pros: brilliant outgoing confident fairly nice Cons: cute but not my physical type annoyingly chipper and dorky/goofy blustering wind-bag (hiding lack of emotional depth with light-hearted banter). flaky somewhat self-absorbed The first, third and fourth cons turned out to be his undoing, as my bf. By comparison, his best-friend who I briefly became involved with: First impression pros Pros: Deep emotions bubbling beneath the surface Hot and my type Smart Good taste and knowledgeable about music, film, literature Mysterious Cons: self destructive and addictive personality (drinker, smoker) unambitious no formal education or desire to have one very bitter Edited March 3, 2008 by shadowplay
shadowplay Posted March 3, 2008 Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) That is a really good point, Kamille. We don't remember the impressions that were proved wrong, only the ones that were proved correct. I've been thinking about first attraction, not just the good qualities we've been listing, but what makes you go "wow" about a person, and also, where does that "wow" hit you? Is it an intellectual wow, a wow at an emotional level, a wow in your loins, all of the above? And does that wow keep wowwing you into the long-term relationship? For example, the two "wows" that hit me about my H were his intellect and his integrity (kindness, generous, good listener, etc.) I continue to be actively impressed and moved by those characteristics in him. Physically, I remember thinking, he would be really attractive if only X, Y and Z were different. I find that the "wow" factors rarely deliver. This guy I was briefly seeing hooked me in with his combination of intelligence and brutishness. He sort of had a Marlon Brando vibe. But I could only appreciate those qualities from a distance when I removed myself from the actual situation, thinking to myself "wow, a guy I really admire finds me very attractive." Or "here I am making out with a guy I find really hot. Good for me." I never actually felt those qualities, in a visceral way, as I had hoped to. They didn't enhance the experience of being with him, unless I reflected on it afterwards. It was more like watching myself do something cool in a movie. Does that make sense? Edited March 3, 2008 by shadowplay
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