carhill Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Things need to get solved through communication but sometimes a man feels like things can get solved through the act of sex alone, and it really feels like a chore to have to be intimate with someone you feel in the moment is somewhat like your "enemy". So a woman needs verbal communication to get close enough again to feel that attraction but a man needs sex to feel close and attracted again, so you have to meet half way. My experience says this is the "norm" but my personal path is exactly the opposite. Our MC psychologist looked on in disbelief as we elicited this. I remained a virgin for a long time because I didn't have that emotional and spiritual connection and intimacy that would impel me to share myself sexually. When I feel distant emotionally from my wife, we rarely have sex. If I feel connected, it can be more than once per day. I understand that this is "not normal" for a man, but it is normal for me. That's why I embrace a universe of possibilities for relationships and compatibility. My wife is like a "typical guy". She "gets close" through sex. Hence MC I can "force" myself to have sex more often if there is little/no emotional connection, but it is empty. I can tell the difference by the type and strength of orgasm I have (if I have one). Hope that isn't TMI I think the list is a great general guide and at least causes readers to look at their own circumstances.
OpenBook Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 I remained a virgin for a long time because I didn't have that emotional and spiritual connection and intimacy that would impel me to share myself sexually. When I feel distant emotionally from my wife, we rarely have sex. If I feel connected, it can be more than once per day. I understand that this is "not normal" for a man, but it is normal for me. That's why I embrace a universe of possibilities for relationships and compatibility. My wife is like a "typical guy". She "gets close" through sex. Hence MC I can "force" myself to have sex more often if there is little/no emotional connection, but it is empty. I can tell the difference by the type and strength of orgasm I have (if I have one). Hope that isn't TMI . Fascinating! (Seriously.) This makes me question if the Sex v. Emotional Connection thing is indeed biologically driven. Maybe it's not! I always assumed it was.
carhill Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Yes, our psychologist said the same thing. I am an evolutionary anomaly Seriously, my father was an intellectual and did not socialize me as a typical male. I was allowed/encouraged to evolve on my own within their moral guidance. I was "lucky" in a sense that I had a stable loving home to grow up in. So, so thankful. A good female friend has suggested I write a book on the subject. Hmmm... I'm sure my wife would use such a treatise either as toilet flotsam or a dartboard
RecordProducer Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Absolutely! SOME women are frigid cows, but normal women are as horny as any man, if not more. I believe that women are physically hornier than men. But men think about sex with NEW women more often. A woman is more prone to wait for the right moment. Women connect sex with romance or excitement. A man who is attracted to his co-worker will think and talk about sex 24/7, but once married to this woman, his interest in sex with his wife will be diminished. Scientists have made experiments with bulls: the bull will not screw the same cow too often, but if they give him NEW cows, he will screw each of them no matter how often they are replaced. Sad and disgusting, I know. I would love to hear other people's viewpoints on this. I am actually hoping that someone will deny this from their personal perspective (not as an opinion based on information from books).
Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Yes, our psychologist said the same thing. I am an evolutionary anomaly Seriously, my father was an intellectual and did not socialize me as a typical male. I was allowed/encouraged to evolve on my own within their moral guidance. I was "lucky" in a sense that I had a stable loving home to grow up in. So, so thankful. A good female friend has suggested I write a book on the subject. Hmmm... I'm sure my wife would use such a treatise either as toilet flotsam or a dartboard How did you end up with your wife, given your differences? She must have connected with you early on, or you wouldn't have given up your virginity to her.
angie2443 Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 I believe that women are physically hornier than men. But men think about sex with NEW women more often. A woman is more prone to wait for the right moment. Women connect sex with romance or excitement. A man who is attracted to his co-worker will think and talk about sex 24/7, but once married to this woman, his interest in sex with his wife will be diminished. Scientists have made experiments with bulls: the bull will not screw the same cow too often, but if they give him NEW cows, he will screw each of them no matter how often they are replaced. Sad and disgusting, I know. I would love to hear other people's viewpoints on this. I am actually hoping that someone will deny this from their personal perspective (not as an opinion based on information from books). Every animal/insect species has it's own mating agenda. Female praying mantises often eat the heads of their mates for survival (of their young) purposes, male lions take over a pride, kill the cubs that are still nursing, eat them, and then mate with the females as quickly as they can before they are ran off by the younger, stronger male lions. I could go on and on. My point is, you could use any animal species to justify any particular animal behavior. I personally think female humans are attracted to many men also, but, it is more riskier for a female to have sex then a male. She may become pregnant and/or catch a disease. while a male can catch an std, it is, from what I understand, less likely to cause permanant damage. Also, a male can get another female pregnant, but, can run away easiar because he is not the one carrying the baby. In my relationship, I am the one who wants "it" more than my husband. At least in my case, it is the female who wants it more than the male!
GoodOnPaper Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 I believe that women are physically hornier than men. But men think about sex with NEW women more often. A woman is more prone to wait for the right moment. Women connect sex with romance or excitement. A man who is attracted to his co-worker will think and talk about sex 24/7, but once married to this woman, his interest in sex with his wife will be diminished. Scientists have made experiments with bulls: the bull will not screw the same cow too often, but if they give him NEW cows, he will screw each of them no matter how often they are replaced. Sad and disgusting, I know. I would love to hear other people's viewpoints on this. I am actually hoping that someone will deny this from their personal perspective (not as an opinion based on information from books). Is bad sex worse than no sex? Many women would probably say yes, fewer men would. Of course, a man's perception of his masculinity is often tied to the number of women he's had sex with or how often he has sex with his wife. On a man's diminished martial sex interest: although a general urge for variety might always be there, intimacy plays a bigger part than most guys will admit. There are tons of issues that get in the way of me being able to be totally honest with or feeling entirely comfortable just being me around my wife and family. Much of this pressure lifts when thinking about the prospect of being with another woman -- I figure if I open up and she doesn't accept me, I can disappear from the picture quickly. If I open up to my wife and she doesn't accept me, there is much more to lose. Martial sex becomes like walking a tightrope -- you want to connect enough to have sex but connecting too much puts a lot at risk -- overall, a lot of work and pressure.
carhill Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 How did you end up with your wife, given your differences? She must have connected with you early on, or you wouldn't have given up your virginity to her. Lost virginity at 35 (gave up on the "wait until married" thing). Met wife at 39. Got married at 41. Astute observation regarding differences (psychologist made same). She had more relationship experience than me and saw my attributes to be part of a "list" she wanted. In retrospect I was ignorant rather than stupid. I'm neither now What I used to see as a liability (my sensitivity) I know see as an asset and a gift. It is an issue in our marriage. I'm working on whether a compromise is possible.
Storyrider Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Feel free not to answer if my questions are too personal. It is just that I've known other men who made similar choices, including my H, so that is why I'm curious. Did you want to wait until married for religious reasons or because of what you call your sensitivity? Didn't you feel really horny and frustrated all those years you waited? As you mentioned above, this is unusual in a guy. Would you say that you don't have a strong sex drive? Or would you say the issue has more to do with personality?
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Did you want to wait until married for religious reasons or because of what you call your sensitivity? After MC, I would completely attribute my "waiting" to psychology rather than any religious principles. I never had a close emotional attachment with an available female which led to sharing myself with her sexually. Without any socialization either way, I just had no intrinsic interest in casual sex to satisfy my own physical needs. Still don't. Didn't you feel really horny and frustrated all those years you waited?Absolutely. I have a normal libido. It is my psychology which makes me "different". Within a emotionally intimate relationship, I'm very sexual and uninhibited (see my postings elsewhere on anal sex). The difference between myself and "normal" men is that my sexual desire is driven/controlled by emotion rather than a strict excretion of testosterone. No idea what's going on in my chemical factory As you mentioned above, this is unusual in a guy. Would you say that you don't have a strong sex drive? Or would you say the issue has more to do with personality?Strictly speaking, by society's norms, I would say I do not have a strong sex drive. I can be around sexually attractive women and not want to "do them" or picture them naked or all the "normal" things guys do. Hence, I've had many platonic female friends over the years. My issue is psychological, or more precisely an interplay between intellect, psychology (genetics/socialization) and brain organization. Having to deal with my mother's disease (dementia and lewy body disease), I've learned a lot about the brain. Don't know if it's helped any though. Still in MC Hope that helps...
Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Hope that helps... Yes, thanks! I like your answers.
RecordProducer Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Without any socialization either way, I just had no intrinsic interest in casual sex to satisfy my own physical needs. Still don't. Absolutely. I have a normal libido. It is my psychology which makes me "different". Within a emotionally intimate relationship, I'm very sexual and uninhibited. Interesting post. I suspect that my husband might be like you in this department. I have a question for you: do you normally get horny, like out of nowhere? How often and what stimulates it? See, I can see a scene in a movie or just a sexy photo or read about something sexual and get horny. Or I am doing some serious work, such as studying, and suddenly feel horny. I don't like sex without love, but when I get horny, I don't think about anyone. Only once I feel the desire, I direct it at someone particular (fantasy about a man, a woman or my husband - who is neither! ). One more thing: did your mother insist on strict discipline when you were a child?
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) Interesting post. I suspect that my husband might be like you in this department. I have a question for you: do you normally get horny, like out of nowhere? How often and what stimulates it? Hmm... interesting... Yes, I do get sexually aroused without obvious external stimulation, purely through emotional memory. It's an odd combination of the visualization abilities of man combined with the emotional memory of a woman. I can "think" about a particularly emotional moment (not necessarily sexual) with a person in my past or present and become aroused. If I use a visual aide (like those "porn" threads that have been running here) I have to apply the image to someone I know for it to be an effective medium. IOW, anonymous sex holds no interest for me. Perhaps similar to your experience, I do "need" to direct my energy towards a particular person (in my head anyway) for the experience to be emotionally and sexually sastisfying. One more thing: did your mother insist on strict discipline when you were a child?Yes, my mother was very strict and I was very rebellious, but respected their authority (she and my dad parented as a team). They gave me lots of freedom within the rules. She never disciplined, made fun of or commented on my use of porn and any signs of masturbation when I was young. Hence, I always felt sex was natural and OK, and developed quite a fetish for women's undies during that period If you'll indulge an example, I can take your avatar picture (especially the pose), screen name, and my natural affinity for the classic 40's "look" and wend a pretty vivid erotic scenario based strictly on memories I have of the period, women I recall (my mom was a model during that era and I saw many pictures and knew some of her contemporaries (and perhaps were "crushes" of mine as a child)), and a bit of testosterone. This has happened nearly automatically whenever I've seen your avatar and of course has nothing to do with you in person. I understand where it comes from and dismiss it, but it is there. Likely TMI, but you asked Edited March 2, 2008 by carhill
RecordProducer Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Yes, I do get sexually aroused without obvious external stimulation, purely through emotional memory. Yes, my mother was very strict and I was very rebellious, but respected their authority (she and my dad parented as a team). They gave me lots of freedom within the rules.Bingo! My husband had a very strict mother in the sense that he had to go to bed on time and he was beaten if he was "bad." On top of that, he has a twin brother and two little boys naturally gang up and jump on their parents' nerves. I think he lacked affection and attention. His father was OK, but he is a cold person. I don't understand what "freedom within the rules" implies. If you'll indulge an example, I can take your avatar picture (especially the pose), screen name, and my natural affinity for the classic 40's "look" and wend a pretty vivid erotic scenario Darn it! I just changed my avatar. Tell me more about your vivid imagination based on my new picture. Your place or mine? For me, the sexual stimulation comes from my mind. I would rather sleep with a man who is very respectful and sweet and who is attracted to both my mind and body, but is not too attractive than with a man who is super-hot (according to my weird taste) but only expresses physical attraction and desire for me. Furthermore, telling me "you're smart" doesn't do it for me; I have to conclude that he has the equipment necessary to assess my mind (e.g. I have to recognize the similarity in our thoughts through his words). Cerebral love-making is hot. P.S. I love your writing style.
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) Darn it! I just changed my avatar. Tell me more about your vivid imagination based on my new picture. Your place or mine? OK, switch from erotic fantasy to marry. How do you like that for gross generalizations? Most of my female friends say (or have said) that I should be a writer. Alas, my true love is designing and building things (I'm a machinist). P.S. I love your writing style. On edit, I forgot my manners...thank you! Interestingly, I was rarely spanked as a child. My sensitive nervous system responded to much less painful disciplinary measures. My "freedom" meant that my parents did not control me (micromanage if you will) but had rules of decorum and curfew which were rigidly enforced. I am an only child. IMO, it was a great combination of love and discipline and allowing me to develop my mind and emotions unfettered by stereotypes. As my writing skills might attest, I was learning a new word from the dictionary every day prior to ever beginning school. Same with math. I "see" numbers. Never got the gift of reading my wife's mind though What does this all have to do with sex (or a sexless marriage)? I just thought of something that has contributed to sex issues in our marriage, that being my ability (or lack thereof) to "turn off" my logical mind and just let go. It's hard for me to do, once it's engaged. I'm sure for most it's easy, especially since men evidently have sex on their mind all the time, but mine is so full of other things that it's often hard to turn it off and just be a basic sexual male. Hey, free therapy! Edited March 2, 2008 by carhill
RecordProducer Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 . Alas, my true love is designing and building things (I'm a machinist).You should be a lawyer or a college professor, if you ask me. BTW, my husband is a mechanical engineer and used to manufacture machines. I don't think a brain loaded with intellectual thoughts should impair your libido. As a matter of fact, I can be very horny and think about other things; I just register that I am horny and it bothers me, but I don't have to indulge myself every time. When I was much younger, my thoughts would start wandering during sex, but now I attribute it to unsatisfying sex life. Do you think you would be more stimulated with a woman who is "perfect" in your eyes (physically, emotionally and intellectually)? I have more questions: are you often told that you're very kind and generous? Do you like helping people? Has your wife ever told you that you're passive-aggressive? (Just checking ).
Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 When I was much younger, my thoughts would start wandering during sex, but now I attribute it to unsatisfying sex life. I agree with you, RP. This happens to me too when I'm nervous or dissatisfied. I think good sex keeps one interested.
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Psycho-analysis over the internet? Part of HSP (highly sensitive personality) is being intrinsically aware of how others feel and their circumstances. Before understanding this psychology, I oft thought myself an "empath". My wife oft opines that animals flock to me as stars to a black hole, as if I have this strange aura which attracts them Yes, I enjoy helping others and this has been a big problem all my life (being taken advantage of). If anything, I'm the antithesis of passive aggressive, preferring to be emotionally confrontational and relentless. That's another issue I've improved on in therapy, that being to take timeouts to allow my wife to process everything, as my mind works so much faster than hers. She controls the timeouts. I have an instinctive understanding of a woman's interest in me, at the most elemental level, and have rarely (never in recent memory) been wrong. I would be most stimulated, regardless of a woman's physicality and intelligence, by one who connects with me emotionally and spiritually and is only with me during those moments of pure intimacy. Meanwhile, as I type this, my wife watches "Law and Order: SVU"
Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Psycho-analysis over the internet? Part of HSP (highly sensitive personality) is being intrinsically aware of how others feel and their circumstances. Before understanding this psychology, I oft thought myself an "empath". I took the test you linked to on daisygirl's thread and came out a 17.
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I agree with you, RP. This happens to me too when I'm nervous or dissatisfied. I think good sex keeps one interested. One of my female friends once told me, during a particularly bad time in her marriage, she used to do the grocery list in her mind during sex. I remember many tearful (both of us) phone calls with her during that time. I'm not exactly sure what "good" sex means, but would submit it's a combination of attraction (wanting to "be" with the person) and that person wanting to give you pleasure as well as being mindful of his/her own. Don't know if this would be the right forum for "qualifying" orgasm variations/intensities, but I'm happy to offer opinion on that subject as well
Storyrider Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 One of my female friends once told me, during a particularly bad time in her marriage, she used to do the grocery list in her mind during sex. I remember many tearful (both of us) phone calls with her during that time I've done this. I've also done the astral projection thing where I float above the bed watching the action in the third person and critique everything that is going on in a critical, nasty (internal, of course) voice.
carhill Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 I took the test you linked to on daisygirl's thread and came out a 17.Yes, one of my close female friends scored similarly. We connect at a very elemental level, almost like twins, rather than how a man and woman would typically connect. It's actually a bit scary. Women have the same range of nervous system sensitivity as men do; however, as it is more societally acceptable for a woman to be "sensitive", variations of this are more the "norm" than they are considered to be for men, where high scorers such as myself are sometimes stereotyped as "weak". Societal perceptions are powerful influences on how we view ourselves. IMO, the important reason for understanding the psychological impact of your nervous system is where partners are of disparate types, such as my wife and I, and compromise and communication becomes very important in reaching a mutually satisfying relationship.
RecordProducer Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Psycho-analysis over the internet? Actually, I was trying to find some connection between you and my husband in terms of personality, but I don't think you're similar. In any case, learning about you is very interesting. I dreamed my whole life about being a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Now I am going to law school.
TechDude Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 Because IMO, infidelity in a selfish act, period. I will agree ... but ... Some people (men and women) don't care how good looking their spouse is, how nice, how helpful, how emotional intuned they are, etc, etc.... what matters to them, is they are being guided by what is in their pants, and not much else matters to them. There are others who, after years of rejection, not having their own emotions needs met, start to look elsewhere. Selfish, perhaps, but walk a while in my shoes before condemning. Thank God I have not had an opportunity to "wander". If an opportunity arose, I hope I would do the right thing, but I'm not sure I would have the strength to resist the "selfish" desires. I feel you paint too broad a stroke
RecordProducer Posted March 2, 2008 Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) There are others who, after years of rejection, not having their own emotions needs met, start to look elsewhere. Selfish, perhaps, but walk a while in my shoes before condemning. Thank God I have not had an opportunity to "wander". If an opportunity arose, I hope I would do the right thing, but I'm not sure I would have the strength to resist the "selfish" desires. I feel you paint too broad a strokeI am open-minded (and curious) enough to hear your whole story and offer support. I agree that sometimes they are asking for it. Please, those who were good partners, don't feel called. I don't believe in being fair toward somebody who has not been fair to you for years and has pur you through severe emotional pain. I'm not exactly sure what "good" sex means When you experience it, you will know what it is! Edited March 2, 2008 by RecordProducer
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