asiaexpat Posted February 28, 2008 Posted February 28, 2008 This one really sucks I live in thailand and got deeply involved with a young thai-chinese engineer who works in the same company with me. I am 49 and she is 24--in the beginning she told me that I was everything that she wanted in a man--except for 1 thing--my age. after we fell in love and she said that age was not a problem. but did we fall in love--total sharing, understanding blah blah-- She is literally breathtakingly beautiful and an angel to boot we had plans of marraige --children and all that crap--i have a 19 year old son from a previous marriage. she had also told me earlierthat there could be problems with her family--they might not accept our relationship--I met her mother several times and was accepted. lovers for 2 month then about a week ago she tells me that certain elder cousins are against are relationship and that she would have to sit down and talk to them and convinve them that I was right for her. Monday she tells me that she had that talk and those cousins do not accept and that she can not go against their wishes --very tradtional and old fashioned family. so now we have broken up--and i am crushed--she is very strong willed and doing what she has to do to obey her family but neither of us has really let go 100% She tells me there is still hope but I know its because she does not want to hurt me so much. Can anyone advise?
superfox Posted February 28, 2008 Posted February 28, 2008 Hi Asiaexpat Is the reason they are not accepting you due to your age or cultural differences? I come from a very traditional family culturally and I can totally understand your situation. It is very difficult. You know she probably does have hope in the relationship but probably cannot fight back the traditional family members. It is a very difficult thing to do, not easy at all. It is a very emotional time for her. Most people will just say who cares if she loves you she will go out of her way. To be honest it just is not that easy. In more traditional families the family means so much, they are collective not individualistic like how families are in the west. They are moving towards more modern ideas but tradition is still so strong. I think she probably does care about you deeply to even approach her family about you considering she is from a traditonal family. But it is just so difficult for her to fight for this because she is afraid of their reaction. This happens a lot in asian families. If i was in this predicament and her I would not make you hold on to hope unless I knew I was willing to leave my family to be with the man. You need to have a serious discussion with her and get to what she wants? Is she willing to transgress her family to be with you? If she is be prepared to deal with a lot of emotional issues that may arise - it is not easy and sometimes the person who makes these sacrafices can hold resentment towards you or regret later, so make sure she is positive and not pressured into such a choice. From my personal experience I thought my family would not accept a guy because he was caucasian and I am Canadian but my parents are from South Asia. It was interesting because his family and his friends actually always pressured him to get away from me! They always said that I would never be with him, and that they heard so many stories of girls like me who just dated white guys and left them for a guy of their own race. It was extremely difficult. In the end it never worked, right after I met most of his family he left me. Personally I feel the entire race/cultural issue ridiculous...we are all human. Superfox
Author asiaexpat Posted February 28, 2008 Author Posted February 28, 2008 Hi superfox and thanks for your reply The reason is my age and the fact that I have a 19 year old son from a previous marriage. I have discussed this with her and we both know that if she disobeys her family she will not be happy. and our relationship would suffer because of that. You are right about the collective decsiion making. Her mother accepted me but after consultations with elder cousins they all agreed to keep us apart. we are both broken hearted - her older sister is 27--still living at home but has a boyfriend that she is sick of and wants to leave--in that case the mother actually supports the boyfriend--they have known each other for 5 years and the families know each other. the father has left and has a new girlfriend and baby girl. Go figure Your input is exactly what I need to gain some insight to how these old fashioned families. Thanks again
superfox Posted February 28, 2008 Posted February 28, 2008 Hi, It is good that you recognize that she may become unhappy if she has to choose you over her family. Often I have seen this and it can lead to problems in the longrun if the person is not prepared to do this souley for themselves. Sometimes they feel pressured. I really do feel you need to discuss it with her at length. If she is not willing to go through with it then you would be wasting a lot of time and emotions. I have also seen this work out. Eventually the families come around, down the road they accept it. At the end they do want their loved ones to be happy. A lot of people cast judgements on traditional families. They say they are close minded, but we need to understand and respect that different cultures work in different ways. What is the norm in North America is not the norm in other countries/cultures. In almost every case I have seen usually there is friction at the start but the family will eventually talk to the person, and have some sort of a relationship. Sometimes the person can be cut off - those are the worst. She really needs to evaluate what she wants to do, and I hope she does not lead you on in any way. As you do not want to get hurt and I am sure this is already causing you pain. Is there a chance you can meet the rest of the family? Before moving forward I would ask her exactly how she feels...if she wants to let it go or if she wants to continue to work on things. Keep in mind this could take a lot of time, ask yourself if it is worth your time and if you want to wait and be prepared for anything bad that may come out of it.
Author asiaexpat Posted February 28, 2008 Author Posted February 28, 2008 Thanks again Right now she is showing signs of wanting to let it go. She has stopped calling me and is polite but not personal in our contact at the office. I dont know is she wants me to ask her to disobey her family and keep seeing me. My gut feeling is that her family would come around eventually but I dont think think she wants to test that. and she does not want to continue the relationship behind their backs. When I asked her what she wants to do--she says "i dont know" But her actions are saying let it go BTW None of her family know that we have been intimate together--she was planning on telling them later--
superfox Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 Hi, Those are clear signs that she is wanting to let go as you already recognise. Her family definitely has strong influence on her and it is not easy to go against their wishes. Often in traditional families the females especially are very dependent on their family and take their opinions to heart, and won't transgress. Its not always that they don't want to its simply just so scary because of being raised to put family above all other things. I know this from experience and it would be extremely difficult. If I loved the person I would definitelly be willing to sacrafice, but I know some girls despite the fact that they were in love they were just too afraid. Chances are she can't tell them of your intimacy it is just too hard, because of honor, and traditional ways of thinking. If I were you I would not stay in contact, if she wants you bad enough she will fight for it Superfox
Author asiaexpat Posted February 29, 2008 Author Posted February 29, 2008 She has stopped returning my calls and I will stop contacting her as well. It was a nice ride but I have to face reality. Thanks for your great input--it has helped me
superfox Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 No problem, if you have any questions or thoughts don't hesitate to message me on here. It will be hard to let go I am sure but the pain in the long run of sticking around is much greater. Superfox
Author asiaexpat Posted February 29, 2008 Author Posted February 29, 2008 i do have one question. I want to ask her if she wants to break contact with me 100% Should I ask? or just let it go? If i dont know for sure I will keep waiting and the pain will last longer
RecordProducer Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 Are you an American citizen living in Thailand? I will never understand these cultures where the family dictates the youth whom to marry. Are they going to disown her if she disobeys? Perhaps she supports their decision in a way... remember, she was the one who told you that your age bothered her in the first place?
superfox Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Asia, I would say she has given you her answer by cutting contact. If I were you I would not ask her, it seems she may say things like I don't know or maybe or whatever but this is all false hope...when people are in this situation they just have to deal with their families on their own - nothing you do can change their minds, only they can. If you want something bad enough you will fight for it...I know I would....as hard as it would be because I would want my happiness. Let her pursue things from now on. Step back don't keep false hope, move on. Its not fair to hold on to something like this that can be so uncertain. If she told you that she wanted to be with you and was WILLING to disobey her family or challenge them on this issue then I would say be patient - because I have seen it WORK, but she's not taking the initiative from what you say. Record Producer it is hard to understand unless you have lived in the culture. Trust me its hard, my parents are traditional and I am born in the west...they grew up different from me and I can only try to understand their points of view. Its not easy. But things like this can go both ways. Like I said I dated a caucasian and his family and friends had issues with me! Because of my culture. Superfox
Author asiaexpat Posted February 29, 2008 Author Posted February 29, 2008 yes American in Thailand and I agree that she does support their decision in a way--shes no fool-we discussed many times what it would be like after 10-20-30 years. Age was always an issue until she fell in love, then all of asudden it did not matte She just answered my question is she wanted to break contact 100% she said no--but i will wait for her to conatct me
Author asiaexpat Posted February 29, 2008 Author Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Asia, I would say she has given you her answer by cutting contact. If I were you I would not ask her, it seems she may say things like I don't know or maybe or whatever but this is all false hope...when people are in this situation they just have to deal with their families on their own - nothing you do can change their minds, only they can. If you want something bad enough you will fight for it...I know I would....as hard as it would be because I would want my happiness. Let her pursue things from now on. Step back don't keep false hope, move on. Its not fair to hold on to something like this that can be so uncertain. If she told you that she wanted to be with you and was WILLING to disobey her family or challenge them on this issue then I would say be patient - because I have seen it WORK, but she's not taking the initiative from what you say. Record Producer it is hard to understand unless you have lived in the culture. Trust me its hard, my parents are traditional and I am born in the west...they grew up different from me and I can only try to understand their points of view. Its not easy. But things like this can go both ways. Like I said I dated a caucasian and his family and friends had issues with me! Because of my culture. Superfox Well I asked her and she said no we just finshed an IM chat. There is no hope--I know that--she is just to nice of a girl to cut me off. But I repeat There is no hope--I know and accept that now
dfreeman Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 But I repeat There is no hope--I know and accept that now Well, as we say around here all the time, Your only hope is to lose hope!
RecordProducer Posted February 29, 2008 Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) yes American in Thailand and I agree that she does support their decision in a way--shes no fool-we discussed many times what it would be like after 10-20-30 years. Age was always an issue until she fell in love, then all of asudden it did not matte She just answered my question is she wanted to break contact 100% she said no--but i will wait for her to conatct meThis is kinda weird. Girls from that part of Asia DREAM about coming to the US and don't seem to have a problem marrying Americans and moving here. Also, you're probably well off and it's very unusual for a conservative culture to give priority to age over a living standard. May I ask you some questions? What are your plans about returning to the US? What's her financial status in Thailand? Would she move to the US with you? Could this be a strategy to make you marry her? How long have you been dating? Did you say two months? Your only hope is to lose hope!I've never heard of that saying, but I like it a lot! Losing hope indicates your emotional recovery from a broken relationship, regardless of which comes first. If you lose hope because you mentally realize that it's over, you start healing. If you have given up hope because you don't care anymore - even better. Edited February 29, 2008 by RecordProducer
Author asiaexpat Posted February 29, 2008 Author Posted February 29, 2008 This is kinda weird. Girls from that part of Asia DREAM about coming to the US and don't seem to have a problem marrying Americans and moving here. Also, you're probably well off and it's very unusual for a conservative culture to give priority to age over a living standard. May I ask you some questions? What are your plans about returning to the US? What's her financial status in Thailand? Would she move to the US with you? Could this be a strategy to make you marry her? How long have you been dating? Did you say two months? I've never heard of that saying, but I like it a lot! Losing hope indicates your emotional recovery from a broken relationship, regardless of which comes first. If you lose hope because you mentally realize that it's over, you start healing. If you have given up hope because you don't care anymore - even better. RP Her family is fairly rich--She has her own car--sis is a dentist. Money is not an issue--we had plans of marriage , children etc..and I was even going to buy her a house--she knew that but still has stick to her famillies decision. Lets face it -25 years age difference is huge. I can find girls even younger here--thats no problem-but i would have to support them and help to suport their families. I courted her for 2-3 months and we were lovers for 2 months--it was only after she started letting her family know how serious it was getting that problems arose. and yes-I have lost hope--and already feel better:)
mental_traveller Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 She can't be strong-willed, otherwise she would have gone against the relatives' wishes and gone with you anyway. IMO you have to ask, if she really loved you then wouldn't she place you above her family, above cultural attitude, and above everything else? So IMO this is just a sign she isn't right for you. I would say that to her - tell her that you feel she is showing she doesn't love you, and cares more about the wishes of relatives than about the two of you. Say if that's how she really feels, then you don't think her feelings are genuine and so you are going to leave and forget her. That way, if she really does love you, she'll probably change her mind and go for it. If she still obeys the relatives, then she doesn't really love you, and you are better off without her.
Author asiaexpat Posted March 1, 2008 Author Posted March 1, 2008 I tend to agree with Superfox on this. Yesterday she drove me home from work and we discussed the situation and she admitted that yes--she cares more about her family and cannot leave her mother. She had told me from the beginning that her family meant everything to her. We both cried etc... and she told me that I had to believe her that she loved me and maybe later (when she was more independant of her family) we could be lovers again. Anyway its over and I am recovering nicely.
mental_traveller Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 (edited) I tend to agree with Superfox on this. Yesterday she drove me home from work and we discussed the situation and she admitted that yes--she cares more about her family and cannot leave her mother. She had told me from the beginning that her family meant everything to her. We both cried etc... and she told me that I had to believe her that she loved me and maybe later (when she was more independant of her family) we could be lovers again. Anyway its over and I am recovering nicely. I agree with Superfox's great advice, it's obvious she knows what she is talking about with regard to the culture gap. Perhaps my comments on your ex were a bit harsh, given the context. What I mean is that although she may well have very high regard and romantic feelings for you, it's not real "soul mates" love of the strength that would be needed to go it you & her against the world. In more normal situations, people can marry with say 70% love, but in this situation it really needs to be 100%. I suspect perhaps she feels 70% and thought it would grow, but that is not enough to overcome the family objections. Bad luck Asiaexpat, but remember there are plenty of fish in the sea. You seem to have a good attitude about it. Edited March 1, 2008 by mental_traveller
Els Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Firstly, let me state that I'm Chinese. The parents thing I totally understand. But in no family, no matter how traditional, do the opinions and decisions of cousins override those of the parents! Especially since the cousins are of the same generation as her, and lower than that of her parents. I hate to throw doubt over this, but it really does seem a bit weird. Are you from the same culture as well?
superfox Posted March 1, 2008 Posted March 1, 2008 Hi, That is a good point about the cousins overridding the parents, I wonder if maybe they are quite older? I think that her saying once she is more independent of her family really is giving false hope. I wouldn't stick with that because that may take years, or she may be saying that to ease the blow. I am not sure how dependent she is on her family. And if her family does have such strong opinions the opinions will not stop just because she becomees independent so she will have to face them either way. I am sure she cared for you deeply, she is just caught in between and probably can't bear to hurt her family with this decision.
Author asiaexpat Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Firstly, let me state that I'm Chinese. The parents thing I totally understand. But in no family, no matter how traditional, do the opinions and decisions of cousins override those of the parents! Especially since the cousins are of the same generation as her, and lower than that of her parents. I hate to throw doubt over this, but it really does seem a bit weird. Are you from the same culture as well? No, these cousins are of the mothers generation, in fact older than the mother.
Author asiaexpat Posted March 2, 2008 Author Posted March 2, 2008 Hi, That is a good point about the cousins overridding the parents, I wonder if maybe they are quite older? I think that her saying once she is more independent of her family really is giving false hope. I wouldn't stick with that because that may take years, or she may be saying that to ease the blow. I am not sure how dependent she is on her family. And if her family does have such strong opinions the opinions will not stop just because she becomees independent so she will have to face them either way. I am sure she cared for you deeply, she is just caught in between and probably can't bear to hurt her family with this decision. The mother is only 52 but the other elder cousins are older. I think the false hope might be on her side not mine--i have no hope
Author asiaexpat Posted March 29, 2008 Author Posted March 29, 2008 Interesting developement So--less than 1 month after we break up--i hear the shocking news that my ex GF is going to get married later this year. The man is a middle-level manager and a good friend of her boss. Just a few years younger than me but has never married and has no children--also a chinese thai. This reeks of arranged marriage cause I know there is no way that she loves this guy--she had told me about him before. Ill find out the truth but It amazes me what she will do to please her family. Just as I was healing nicely I hear that news and feel bad for her cause she deserves much better than that.
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