what are the parameters in a FWB relationship?

[cirese]

do i have a right to be upset/angry?

 

for the last ten months, i have been in a casual relationship with a 27 year old guy. (i am 30.) we met through my male roommate who i have been best friends with for 16 years.

 

my roommate and my FWB often go out cruising to meet tourists, asian girls. i know that is really gross. praying on girls who speak little english and talking them into sex without making any real connection and with little effort. i think it speaks volumes for how low their character is. but they are actually good guys who just don't want to get seriously involved because they want to sleep with all the girls in the world, naturally.

 

my FWB is often very sweet to me and people have commented on our recent "connection" and i have (carefully) noticed behavior from him that suggests he thinks of me more than just a sex buddy. i have not responded. but i enjoy being with him, and i am certain he knows that.

 

i do not disclose any of my other encounters or that i even speak with any other guys. i am discreet out of courtesy and respect for him. in the beginning i told him that it was in both our best interests if we kept our sex and romantic lives completely hidden from eachother to keep up a facade that would leave us both more comfortable. he agreed, except has screwed up a couple of times.

 

recently, my roommate, he and i were having drinks in our living room when he answered a telephone call from another girl and made no effort to disguise the intention of the phone call. he hurriedly got up to leave but not without first giving me an awkward, apologetic (and extremely insulting) hug. he hooked up with asian girl and i haven't heard from him since. for me it was the equivalent of me jumping out of bed with him to go hook up with another guy.

 

needless to say, i am tired of being treated casually and feel hurt. after this long, i expected things to develop. i admit i was too accomodating. my problem is this...

 

do i have a right to call him out on being an *******? or will he throw it back in my face and remind me i am not his girlfriend and that i knew what i was getting into. i am definitely not going to call him out on it, but want to know if i have a right to be angry.

 

something tells me all of the replies to this thread will instruct me to end this relationship.

 

he is extremely disrespectful and downright rude.

[Arch]

um all you are is a FWB, thats what you agreed to.... plus you said he might of wanted something more but you didn't respond to it.

 

He has not done anything wrong, your the one with the problem.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Arch

[CaliGuy]

This is part of accepting a FWB arrangement. You get all the benefits of casual, uncommitted sex...and all the pain and heartbreak that comes with it.

[cirese]

um all you are is a FWB, thats what you agreed to.... plus you said he might of wanted something more but you didn't respond to it.

 

He has not done anything wrong, your the one with the problem.

maybe he didn't do anything wrong, but what he did was f*cked up. and the question was, do i have a right to be upset or angry that he ignored his agreement to be discreet and shoved it in my face that he was going to hook up with someone else.

 

decent people don't behave that way. casual relationships are complicated and boundaries are hard to define, however, common decency is not.

 

if being insulted and disrespected by his behavior means i have a problem, then so does anyone else who believes they deserve better.

[Arch]

maybe he didn't do anything wrong, but what he did was f*cked up. and the question was, do i have a right to be upset or angry that he ignored his agreement to be discreet and shoved it in my face that he was going to hook up with someone else.

 

decent people don't behave that way. casual relationships are complicated and boundaries are hard to define, however, common decency is not.

 

if being insulted and disrespected by his behavior means i have a problem, then so does anyone else who believes they deserve better.

 

don't get mad - I just told the truth, he probably figures you don't care considering you didn't respond when he hinted he wanted more then just a FWB relationship, you can't have it both ways.

[cirese]

This is part of accepting a FWB arrangement. You get all the benefits of casual, uncommitted sex...and all the pain and heartbreak that comes with it.

sigh...i got myself into this mess. but i really thought i was protecting myself by implementing a "don't ask and don't tell" policy.

 

sometimes i think it gives him an ego boost to boast about other girls and he expects me to get jealous. i never do. it just turns me off. i never mention the attention i get.

 

i just expected more from him. not more of a commitment, but more respect for me.

[cirese]

don't get mad - I just told the truth, he probably figures you don't care considering you didn't respond when he hinted he wanted more then just a FWB relationship, you can't have it both ways.

i seriously NEVER considered he might think i don't care. i guess i should think about that.

[Arch]

i seriously NEVER considered he might think i don't care. i guess i should think about that.

 

Most of us can't read minds, why should he think you cared considering you acted like you didn't care?

[cirese]

Most of us can't read minds, why should he think you cared considering you acted like you didn't care?

i hear what you're saying. i guess i was thrown off by the apologetic hug and his hasty departure.

 

ugh. forget it. he doesn't care, otherwise he wouldn't have been so eager to be with her.

 

shouldn't your advice be to walk away from this?

 

i screwed up. i thought i could handle this. obviously i cannot.

[Arch]

i hear what you're saying. i guess i was thrown off by the apologetic hug and his hasty departure.

 

ugh. forget it. he doesn't care, otherwise he wouldn't have been so eager to be with her.

 

shouldn't your advice be to walk away from this?

 

i screwed up. i thought i could handle this. obviously i cannot.

 

Maybe he thinks you don't care, so hes going to act like he doesnt care?

 

Its a stupid thing to get into to begin with, but you could just ask him about your relationship and his stance on it, because from everything you said it seems you want a relationship with him - so you might as well ask him.

[cirese]

Maybe he thinks you don't care, so hes going to act like he doesnt care?

 

Its a stupid thing to get into to begin with, but you could just ask him about your relationship and his stance on it, because from everything you said it seems you want a relationship with him - so you might as well ask him.

great. now it is clear that i want more out of this than he does. this is exactly what i was afraid of. i think that i want or expect more because i am female and therefore have an inherent belief that there is a natural progression that should follow, i.e., we should move into the next level.

 

because we have been intimate this whole time, it is difficult to sit with. i feel used and unappreciated and want some sort of victory in order to make this right in my head and heart. you see, if he succumbs to being exclusive with me, then i am the winner, and in any other situation, i am the loser.

 

i don't want to be the one to initiate the "talk." i would feel better and it would be a lot less hassle to just walk away. or feel it out the next time i see him and make the decision based on that.

 

btw, thanks for putting all this into perspective.

[xpaperxcutx]

sigh...i got myself into this mess. but i really thought i was protecting myself by implementing a "don't ask and don't tell" policy.

 

sometimes i think it gives him an ego boost to boast about other girls and he expects me to get jealous. i never do. it just turns me off. i never mention the attention i get.

 

i just expected more from him. not more of a commitment, but more respect for me.

In pursuing a FWB, you realized that the normal discreet rules that often apply to relationships really doesn't sit well here. You can't expect anything more from a person that only gives himself to you through sexual needs. Either you learn to deal with the fact that emotions does not apply here, or just don't pursue this any further.

[Arch]

great. now it is clear that i want more out of this than he does. this is exactly what i was afraid of. i think that i want or expect more because i am female and therefore have an inherent belief that there is a natural progression that should follow, i.e., we should move into the next level.

 

because we have been intimate this whole time, it is difficult to sit with. i feel used and unappreciated and want some sort of victory in order to make this right in my head and heart. you see, if he succumbs to being exclusive with me, then i am the winner, and in any other situation, i am the loser.

 

i don't want to be the one to initiate the "talk." i would feel better and it would be a lot less hassle to just walk away. or feel it out the next time i see him and make the decision based on that.

 

btw, thanks for putting all this into perspective.

 

Then walk away, and don't do a FWB thing again.

[SeraBella]

You have a right to feel however you want to feel, but FWB relationships are like this.

 

I do think he was a jerk for leaving like that, but he doesn't really sound like the classiest character, either.

 

Also, I think it's a little gross that you don't really want to know who the other is sleeping with. The facade you've put in place also helps you to ignore your disease risk factors, while living in denial of what else is going on in his life.

 

End it. It's not going to get any better. You've given him the green light for awhile, hard to go back now.

 

Men generally don't develop more feelings for an FWB, but women do most of the time (there are always exceptions to this, but read the majority of postings on here about this, or just ask people you know and it's what you'll probably see).

[CaliGuy]

sigh...i got myself into this mess. but i really thought i was protecting myself by implementing a "don't ask and don't tell" policy.

 

sometimes i think it gives him an ego boost to boast about other girls and he expects me to get jealous. i never do. it just turns me off. i never mention the attention i get.

 

i just expected more from him. not more of a commitment, but more respect for me.

 

Why would you expect him to respect you? You have given him the milk without him having to buy the cow. He sees you as sex and nothing more.

 

There is no room for respect there. For him to respect you, you'd first have to respect yourself and it would start by not agreeing to FWB.

 

I'm sorry you got hurt but I am not surprised. This happens time and time again to people who agree to FWB relationships.

[CaliGuy]

great. now it is clear that i want more out of this than he does. this is exactly what i was afraid of. i think that i want or expect more because i am female and therefore have an inherent belief that there is a natural progression that should follow, i.e., we should move into the next level.

 

Acceping a FWB arrangement to a man comes with the knowledge that you do not nor will not expect nothing more from the relationship than sex. No love, no support, no emotional attachments. That is why he agreed to the FWB relationship.

 

because we have been intimate this whole time, it is difficult to sit with. i feel used and unappreciated and want some sort of victory in order to make this right in my head and heart. you see, if he succumbs to being exclusive with me, then i am the winner, and in any other situation, i am the loser.

 

You were used, but you agreed to being used.

 

i don't want to be the one to initiate the "talk." i would feel better and it would be a lot less hassle to just walk away. or feel it out the next time i see him and make the decision based on that.

 

btw, thanks for putting all this into perspective.

 

What talk are you going to have with him? He is simply going to say "Hey, we agreed to FWB." You don't really have a leg to stand on here. This is what you agreed to and he's bumping along happily with his life because he did not get emotionally involved with you.

 

Not sure how long you've been around this site but I know for a long time I have warned people against FWB relationships and this is exactly why.

[Taramere]

Cirese...you're entitled to your emotions - and you shouldn't ever have to question yourself/feel stupid for having feelings about a man you're in a sexual relationship with. Unfortunately, that's what can happen when people get into FWB situations.

 

As you indicated, you thought you could handle this - and now you're discovering that you can't. It's not a crime to still be in the process of learning what you can and can't cope with relationship wise - so don't beat yourself up about that forever.

 

I think you need to find out whether he has any kind of emotional attachment to you. If so, then there's maybe some point to discussing whether the relationship can develop into one you could afford to invest further in emotionally. From what you're saying, and given the pattern that's been set here, I think you'd be better out of it regardless of how he feels about you - but naturally it's your call. Good luck.

 

And no offence to caliguy intended, but given that you've expressed feelings of being used - this

 

Why would you expect him to respect you? You have given him the milk without him having to buy the cow. He sees you as sex and nothing more.

 

 

seems a tad unnecessary.

 

You need to start feeling better about yourself, Cirese. Nothing will change until that does.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Taramere

[mental_traveller]

I don't see how you have any grounds to be angry. You're his friend, not his girlfriend. Would he have to hide his hookup phonecalls from his normal friends? No - so he shouldn't have to hide them from you.

 

The hug was tacky, but other than that, I don't see the problem. Also you have no reason to think things should have "developed" by now - you are not in a romantic relationship with him, so there's nothing *to* develop.

 

If you aren't happy with things, then end the friendship.

[mental_traveller]

great. now it is clear that i want more out of this than he does. this is exactly what i was afraid of. i think that i want or expect more because i am female and therefore have an inherent belief that there is a natural progression that should follow, i.e., we should move into the next level.

 

You shouldn't use your gender as an excuse. Nothing either of you said indicated that there would be any progression. This was a simple deal - friends with benefits, no more. Your belief that there should be some kind of development is totally inconsistent with your portrayal to this guy of your expectations for the FWB "relationship". You presented it as a simple deal - no strings, just casual fun & friendship. Now you want to change the rules - and you don't even let the guy know?

 

This is nothing to do with being female, and everything to do with poor communication and groundless expectations. Next time, work out what you want, and then *tell* the other person, instead of relying on telepathy. Also, do not form expectations of another person, unless that person has told you this is how they intend to act. So until a guy says he wants to progress things, do not assume the he does. In fact, assume he has no interest in progression unless he explicitly states otherwise.

[CaliGuy]

And no offence to caliguy intended, but given that you've expressed feelings of being used - this

 

seems a tad unnecessary.

 

You need to start feeling better about yourself, Cirese. Nothing will change until that does.

 

Not sure why you feel it's unnecessary. I wasn't intentionally trying to be thoughtless but rather very factual from a man's perspective.

 

She said they are FWB. That stands for "Friends With Benefits". When a man agrees to this, what he is agreeing to is sex and nothing more. You can even take the friend part out of it if you want. He's not really looking for friends.

 

He's looking for quick, easy sex. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It's a non-binding contract that a man inteprets as "sex with no strings, especially emotional ones, attached."

 

Do I think she has a right to feel hurt? Yes. Because hurt is all that ever comes out of FWB relationships. What I don't think she should be is surprised about his behavior.

 

She went into the relationship agreeing to the terms. He got what he wanted, she got what she wanted. At least at first. But during the course of the arrangement, she changed the terms, but he did not.

 

It's no different than buying a car and wanting to change the financial terms. You signed the agreement, that is what the dealer will hold you to.

 

Look, I understand how she feels. What I am hoping comes of this is she learns a lesson and hopefully many more do before they get hurt.

 

FWBs are just bad deals all the way around. You can not have sex without feelings. To think one is above it (and yes, even men fall prey to this) is to believe they are above the limitions of being human.

 

Cheers.

[Taramere]

Not sure why you feel it's unnecessary. I wasn't intentionally trying to be thoughtless but rather very factual from a man's perspective.

 

I think from other things you've posted here, you're capable of applying emotional intelligence.

 

How would you help a friend who was in emotional crisis? Here's two choices

 

One

 

1. You allow them to vent their emotions to a certain extent.

2. You recognise/validate their emotions

3. You ask questions to find out what negative assumptions/beliefs the anxiety-provoking situation might have created or tapped into

4. You introduce the rational thinking aspect to challenge some of those negative beliefs and assumptions.

 

Two

 

You hear a brief synopsis of the situation that has upset them. Then you lecture them, share some of your value judgements with them, and explain that you're taking a factual, "male" perspective (I put that in quotes, because I don't think that necessarily is a typically male response. I think it's often the way people will respond when a situation reminds them of their own issues/experiences).

 

If you were in crisis, which one do you think you'd find more helpful? Lecturing people about their problems and screw ups is fun, and it can make us look like we really have our sh*t together....but does it ever achieve anything more substantial than that? I know people here aren't counsellors, but surely most of us know that feeling of being self-righteously criticised when all we wanted to do was express our feelings to someone, then get some kind of grip over them before they make us behave foolishly.

 

As an addendum, I do see that your intentions on this thread were kind - and my comments are directed more at the way the thread was dealt with in general, rather than specifically at you.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Taramere

[CaliGuy]

I think from other things you've posted here, you're capable of applying emotional intelligence.

 

How would you help a friend who was in emotional crisis? Here's two choices

 

One

 

1. You allow them to vent their emotions to a certain extent.

2. You recognise/validate their emotions

3. You ask questions to find out what negative assumptions/beliefs the anxiety-provoking situation might have created or tapped into

4. You introduce the rational thinking aspect to challenge some of those negative beliefs and assumptions.

 

Two

 

You hear a brief synopsis of the situation that has upset them. Then you lecture them, share some of your value judgements with them, and explain that you're taking a factual, "male" perspective (I put that in quotes, because I don't think that necessarily is a typically male response. I think it's often the way people will respond when a situation reminds them of their own issues/experiences).

 

If you were in crisis, which one do you think you'd find more helpful? Lecturing people about their problems and screw ups is fun, and it can make us look like we really have our sh*t together....but does it ever achieve anything more substantial than that? I know people here aren't counsellors, but surely most of us know that feeling of being self-righteously criticised when all we wanted to do was express our feelings to someone, then get some kind of grip over them before they make us behave foolishly.

 

As an addendum, I do see that your intentions on this thread were kind - and my comments are directed more at the way the thread was dealt with in general, rather than specifically at you.

 

And in much the same way, I'm not trying to gang up on the OP but rather put into perspective how FWB relationships cause much more pain than pleasure.

 

I know she's having a rough time. She'll get through it fine, we all do. I just want this thread to stand out in the hope that others who are considering such irrational arrangements as this learn from our mistakes.

 

Cheers.

[LoveLace]

The thing about FWB that shouldn't apply is the "Friends" part. Because if the title "FWB" makes it okay to just ditch someone like that, it's everything that a "friend" is not. It should be called something like "Encounters with Benefits". A "friend" would just be honest and try to at least keep the friendship part.

 

However, he's just going by the agreement not to share information about other hook-ups. So yes, he would throw that in the OP's face, more than likely.

 

Here's my question to the OP: what if it was you that met a new guy? If you told your FWB about it, that would be violating the agreement you made. In other words, would you act any differently, based on what you agreed to? I understand why your upset, though.

[Taramere]

And in much the same way, I'm not trying to gang up on the OP but rather put into perspective how FWB relationships cause much more pain than pleasure.

 

I know she's having a rough time. She'll get through it fine, we all do. I just want this thread to stand out in the hope that others who are considering such irrational arrangements as this learn from our mistakes.

 

Cheers.

 

Sure. I don't disagree with that - except that I do think there are people out there who can handle a situation like this without too many complications (I think it's naive to assume you can have a situation like this long term without any complications).

 

I think the question I'd be asking myself, were I her, would be is this FWB or is it an open relationship? Mental Traveller asserted that she's not his girlfriend. It's not a romantic relationship. What does that mean? No kissing or cuddling? No romantic exchanges? None of the non-sexual intimate things that people in a romantic relationship do once they're comfortable with eachother?

 

I'd find that very difficult to believe given that these two have been intimate for months now. if there are romantic exchanges and non sexual intimacy, then they're lovers. As I understand it, that's the grown ups' equivalent of Friends With Benefits.

 

That said (I just came back on and had another look at this thread) I do get what some posters are saying about her hiding her emotions from him/expecting him to second guess them, even when she's not responding to his efforts to be "sweet". The more she puts on a tough facade of only being in it for the sex, the more she'll end up hurting herself here. It's a very dubious method of attempting to hold onto pride, and I think it often backfires on those who use it.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Taramere

[JerseyShortie]

Most of us can't read minds......

 

 

Really, men should start learning how. It would make things so less confused and many women much more happy.