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Posted

Hi everyone - I really hope you can offer me some advice but if not I'm learning a lot just by reading through some of the existing threads here!! I just discovered this site today when I'm off work sick...and it is sooo good for me to see what other people have gone through as sometimes I feel very alone.

Anyway, to let you know a wee bit about me - I work for a large charity for homeless people. The money is rubbish so most of the people who work there are very generous, hardworking, dedicated people who are truly in it to help more disadvantaged people - I guess I'm telling you that upfront so you see that the man I have fallen for is not a user or a bad person...he's wonderful!! He has a live-in girlfriend and two daughters. I met him 5 years ago when I started working at the org. - he was my manager. We got together 3 years ago. He has since been promoted to Director, so the scandal if our affair got out would probably result in us losing both our jobs. He doesn't want to hurt his girlfriend and I don't want him to leave her...but I also feel I am doing myself no favours by being so much in love with him. I would love to meet someone new but can't get over him...we don't actually see each other all that much but we text loads and last night I sent him sexy pics to his phone which he loved!! We have a very strong physical attraction between us! We have never told each other how we feel - I think we are both scared to say it loud and clear and have it out in the open. He NEVER slags off his girlfriend and in fact tells me he loves her, which funnily enough I want him to do!!! Ours is not typical I think - he never promises me anything but also he is so tender to me I can feel how much he loves me. I don't want to break up his family - I want to be with him but I also don't, not if it meant causing distress to others!!!

Can anyone relate to how I'm feeling? Do you think I should try my best to move on? I love him very much - I think he probably will split from his gf eventually, in a few years time, whether I am still on the scene or not.

Thank you sooo much for taking the time to read!!!

Aoife

 

ps. When we first met it was daggers at dawn...for the first year we detested each other but all of a sudden (it was that quick) we were tumbling into bed and into an affair.

Posted

I fail to see how a man who cheats on his girlfriend (is it the kids mom or not?) is wonderful. :confused:

 

Even if you're fine with him being "in love" with his g/f...do you really thinks she'd be fine knowing he is cheating on her?

 

I think you both deserve someone who will stay faithful and not go around seducing other women on his spare time. Leave him be, tell him you will no longer do this. And then go find a man who will want nobody else but you.

 

I know you love him, but some loves are best to be kept but never acted on.

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Posted

Hi Betty. Well, I've applied for a new job in a new town, and if I get it I have decided to take it and move. She is the mother of his children - a lovely person who deserves better. I do too - I told him once I wasn't brought up to be like this...I barely know myself these days..I'm acting almost like I have no morals, when I do!! At first, he used to be so overcome with guilt when he was with me, and used to tell me his gf thought I was stunning when she met me and that made him feel MORE guilt...coz she was so kind about me and look how i was treating her!!!:( I see he loves her..I see as well he loves me!! I wonder how I am going to find the strength to leave though Betty - he tells me I'm his 'bad addiction'. He's mine too!!!

Thanks for getting back to me by the way!!!!!!

Posted
The money is rubbish so most of the people who work there are very generous, hardworking, dedicated people who are truly in it to help more disadvantaged people - I guess I'm telling you that upfront so you see that the man I have fallen for is not a user or a bad person...he's wonderful!!

 

People can be charitable and giving, yet they can still be not so wonderful in other areas of their lives. Murderers have also been great with children. Not trying to criminalize him, but this does not mean he is faithful to women.

 

He has a live-in girlfriend and two daughters. I met him 5 years ago when I started working at the org. - he was my manager. We got together 3 years ago.

 

So for three years, he has cheated on his GF. The fact that you have kept it a secret this long IS impressive.

 

He has since been promoted to Director, so the scandal if our affair got out would probably result in us losing both our jobs.

 

Then as you stated in your next post, it is wise that you leave. If he is so wonderful for the charity, then you should leave before the scandal ruins it.

 

He doesn't want to hurt his girlfriend and I don't want him to leave her...but I also feel I am doing myself no favours by being so much in love with him.

 

Although she does not know it, he has hurt her beyond words. And you are not doing yourself favors, because one day if you stay with him and he leaves her, it is likely that he will cheat on you.

 

I would love to meet someone new but can't get over him...

 

The only way you can get over him is to have no more contact with him.

 

We have a very strong physical attraction between us!

 

My guess is that this is the main (and possibly the only for him) connection between the two of you.

 

He NEVER slags off his girlfriend and in fact tells me he loves her, which funnily enough I want him to do!!!

 

He may love her with his feelings, but his actions show that he does not. However, he loves the feelings that you bring out in him. My guess is that he is overall more compatible with her, or he could have left her easily for you a long time ago...since they are not married.

 

Do you want him to stay with her, so that you do not have to work on an honest relationship with a man?

 

Ours is not typical I think - he never promises me anything but also he is so tender to me I can feel how much he loves me.

 

Love is much more than a feeling. It is a commitment. It is a selfless promise of fidelity to one person. He has shown that he cannot do that.

 

I don't want to break up his family - I want to be with him but I also don't, not if it meant causing distress to others!!!

Can anyone relate to how I'm feeling? Do you think I should try my best to move on?

 

Many people can relate. I can relate to how HE feels. If you do not want to be the reason for his family break up, then you must leave as you are planning on doing.

 

I love him very much - I think he probably will split from his gf eventually, in a few years time, whether I am still on the scene or not.

 

 

Then wait until he is a "free" man. But remember, he has shown you that he will cheat. I wonder what his reasons are. Does he not love her? What does he tell you?

 

When we first met it was daggers at dawn...for the first year we detested each other but all of a sudden (it was that quick) we were tumbling into bed and into an affair.

 

This is a physical attraction which is not a good basis to build your future upon. Move on, and find a man who can be faithful to you.

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Posted

Hi James - that was really comprehensive, thank you!!!

We have got very good (sneaky?) at keeping it a secret..people have picked up on the chemistry but we have been very careful to keep our affair under wraps. He was almost caught once when I left a rose he bought me in his car by accident and his daughter found it! He admits he has had a few sleepless nights panicking in case he would be caught and he'd lose his job (I think this is his main concern, not his gf).

He is wonderful in soooo many ways - compassionate to the homeless we look after, funny, smart and loving. I am hoping that once I move away we can perhaps move our relationship onto a different level - as friends. I adore him and I would hate not to have him in my life and I like to think that might be possible, but just not the kind of relationship it is now.

The physical attraction between us is crazy...he says he thinks about me all the time and how i look when I dress up for him - but when I ask him what he likes about me most of all, he mentions things like I'm funny, intelligent, confident...how I look isn't mentioned. He loves the song Always a Woman by Billy Joel, as he says it makes him think of me.

The weird thing is, I seem to care more about his gf than he does - he has a reputation as a player (I was aware of this before we got together) and his gf is aware he cheated on her before. He hasn't cheated on me and he wouldn't either. He knows better I guess. The only reasons I would want it to end is so I am free to meet someone and his gf woun't get hurt or his family get torn apart.

He never tells me he's unhappy with her - he is decent in that way. He never spins me lines.

Posted
He hasn't cheated on me and he wouldn't either.

 

Its unfortunate that you believe that. "Players" and serial cheaters don't change when their relationships do.

 

I hope you do manage to get away from him. You will have saved yourself a lot of pain in the long run. His love for you only extends to how long his lies hold up to keep it going. If he were to get caught, you'd see exactly how much he loves you.

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Posted
Its unfortunate that you believe that. "Players" and serial cheaters don't change when their relationships do.

 

I hope you do manage to get away from him. You will have saved yourself a lot of pain in the long run. His love for you only extends to how long his lies hold up to keep it going. If he were to get caught, you'd see exactly how much he loves you.

 

Hi LB it's funny because just before I read what you wrote i was thinking about what he would do if he was caught out. Last summer, he thought I had told one of my friends who also works in the same org., about our affair (although at the time I didn't know this was the reason) and for a week he refused to speak to me, driving me nutso. He offered no explanation. After a week, things returned to normal... it was a couple of months later that he finally broached the subject, asking me why I had told my friend - he had got the wrong end of the stick and was sooo relieved when I set him straight. But it gave me hope in a way, that here he was, thinking people knew about us and were talking about us, yet apart from that one week (he says he was 'livid') he wanted to continue seeing me.

If it comes out and he retreats back to his family and wants nothing to do with me I will be taken aback but I will also deal with it by respecting that.

Posted

This guy will continue to have you in his life as the OW for as long as you want to be the OW. He has no intention of leaving his relationship with his girlfriend and children. Question is, is that enough for you. Birthday's, holiday's, vacations, you won't "have" him, his girlfriend and children will though.

 

Right now he has two women meeting all his needs, so why would he want that to change?

Posted
Hi James - that was really comprehensive, thank you!!!

 

You are welcome. Hopefully, you can learn from the people who give you feedback before you learn it the hard way through experience.

 

We have got very good (sneaky?) at keeping it a secret..people have picked up on the chemistry but we have been very careful to keep our affair under wraps.

 

I suspect that people DO know even of you don't think they do. Many people have a gut feeling about these things. When you work with someone with whom you have an affair, fellow workers do catch on but rarely tell you.

 

He was almost caught once when I left a rose he bought me in his car by accident and his daughter found it! He admits he has had a few sleepless nights panicking in case he would be caught and he'd lose his job (I think this is his main concern, not his gf).

 

Has he considered what this will do to his children? His daughter could learn that men who cheat are okay to marry. Yes, this is very possible.

 

Is this the role model you want for your own children? Did your father cheat on your mother?

 

He is wonderful in soooo many ways - compassionate to the homeless we look after, funny, smart and loving.

 

While this is an admirable quality he has, this has absolutely nothing to do with his ability (or lack of ability) to remain faithful and committed in relationships.

 

I am hoping that once I move away we can perhaps move our relationship onto a different level - as friends. I adore him and I would hate not to have him in my life and I like to think that might be possible, but just not the kind of relationship it is now.

 

Highly doubtful that this would occur. And that is because you have crossed over the line of friendship. If the two of you had been single, then maybe, but now that you have had secret lives of adultery, it makes it unlikely.

 

While I understand the feeling that losing him is just devastating, there are many men like him who respect and honor commitments to women and who are charitable to the homeless.

 

Right now you are consumed by a love that is not based on honesty. If you ever get past that relationship into a friendship, then one wonders if you can respect a man who cannot respect his commitments to women.

 

The physical attraction between us is crazy...he says he thinks about me all the time and how i look when I dress up for him - but when I ask him what he likes about me most of all, he mentions things like I'm funny, intelligent, confident...how I look isn't mentioned.

 

Men are not stupid. They know what women want to hear. And if he is a player and he has cheated on his GF before, then he knows what to say to get a woman into bed with him even when she knows that he is with someone else. SO, I don't expect that he would only compliment you for your looks. Men know that women like to be loved for much more than for their bodies.

 

Does he not have good sex with his GF?

 

He loves the song Always a Woman by Billy Joel, as he says it makes him think of me.

 

So? I still have songs that remind me of ex GFs. There is one song that whenever I hear it (Heaven on Earth by Belinda Carlisle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQahvFdQVu8 ) makes me think of the GF to whom I totally was physically attracted. This song brings back the memory of the first time that I realized that she felt similar for me. She was a hairstylist who cut my hair for the first time that night. While I was taking to her before I left, I could see something in her eyes. Then this song came on. I can still picture her face and the surroundings. Does that mean I love her? No.

 

Not trying to minimize his comments, but again, I think he knows that women like a song connected to them. Then when YOU hear this song, you think of him thinking of you.

 

He is smooth.

 

The weird thing is, I seem to care more about his gf than he does - he has a reputation as a player (I was aware of this before we got together) and his gf is aware he cheated on her before.

 

You have a connection to his GF because you feel that the two of you have him in common. For some reason, you may feel a sisterhood connection with her that she would never feel with you. IMO, this helps you console your guilty conscience as you know you are hurting her every time you make love to the man who said he would be faithful to her...and has not been.

 

I don't doubt that he is a player, yet you trust him? You are either innocent or you are gullible. Either way, you are heading for some hurt and heartbreak.

 

He hasn't cheated on me and he wouldn't either. He knows better I guess.

 

Do you really believe this? Do you think his GF ever expected him to cheat on HER when she met him? Do you think she expected him to cheat again after she caught him last time? Wake up, girl. You are no different than she is.

 

The only reasons I would want it to end is so I am free to meet someone and his gf won't get hurt or his family get torn apart.

 

Then end it now. Otherwise, all of this will happen.

 

He never tells me he's unhappy with her - he is decent in that way. He never spins me lines.

 

Why is this being decent? If he is not unhappy with her, then why is he with you? Good sex? If he stays with her yet cheats with you, then what would she think? Would she be happy that he doesn't say anything bad about her? I think she would rather know that he is not happy, so that she can fix what is wrong.

 

No, as a guy, I think he is far from wonderful. He cheats on a woman with whom is he supposedly happy.

 

Oh, he never spins you lines? And how would you know? Just because you trust what he has told you so far?

 

Again, wake up, please.

 

You sound sweet and personable. Don't waste your life on a man who is using you for his mistress. He has no intention of leaving his GF for you or any woman. She may kick him out, but he will not leave.

 

Move on, and find a man who will respect you.

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Posted
This guy will continue to have you in his life as the OW for as long as you want to be the OW. He has no intention of leaving his relationship with his girlfriend and children. Question is, is that enough for you. Birthday's, holiday's, vacations, you won't "have" him, his girlfriend and children will though.

 

Right now he has two women meeting all his needs, so why would he want that to change?

 

Yip - I think he does love the excitement and the thrill of texting me late at night, secret looks across the boardroom...I love that too!! Even though we are three years on, the affair is still as heady and exciting as it was at the beginning. I keep expecting either him or me to get over the other - but it hasn't happened yet!!! He is actually trying to secure me a promotion to work in Head Office with him - at the minute I work in one of the homeless shelters, so don't see him as much as we would both like. He is scared I think that I'm planning to leave and start again, and is trying to hold on to me.

Posted

So what is it that you want to happen? 3 years later and you two are still having a hot passionate affair.....You are the OW. Can you see yourself being the OW for another 3 years? Is that enough for you? To be second fiddle? Things will never change unless YOU want it to change. This isn't a "real" relationship, it's all based on fun, fantasy and good feelings, not the 'real' stuff couples have to deal with in daily life. You only know the good stuff about him, stuff he wants you to know about..Affairyland..

 

Another thing, you might miss out on some great guy who can offer you so much more than this guy does..To have your own husband, a child, create a life with someone...Is he worth this?

Posted

Male = compartmentalized

 

Female = denial

 

I say this with all due respect and compassion. I'm a male.

 

Another example of a business/pleasure bomb waiting to go off :(

 

As long as your emotions aren't involved or you can disconnect from them, I'd say enjoy it while it lasts. Otherwise, I fear the fallout will be significant.

 

Morals are specific to each individual so I can't comment because I can't see the world through your eyes. I can empathize with your struggle in that regard.

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Posted

 

Has he considered what this will do to his children? His daughter could learn that men who cheat are okay to marry. Yes, this is very possible.

 

Is this the role model you want for your own children? Did your father cheat on your mother?

 

While I understand the feeling that losing him is just devastating, there are many men like him who respect and honor commitments to women and who are charitable to the homeless.

 

Right now you are consumed by a love that is not based on honesty. If you ever get past that relationship into a friendship, then one wonders if you can respect a man who cannot respect his commitments to women.

 

Does he not have good sex with his GF?

 

Why is this being decent? If he is not unhappy with her, then why is he with you? Good sex? If he stays with her yet cheats with you, then what would she think? Would she be happy that he doesn't say anything bad about her? I think she would rather know that he is not happy, so that she can fix what is wrong.

 

No, as a guy, I think he is far from wonderful. He cheats on a woman with whom is he supposedly happy.

 

Oh, he never spins you lines? And how would you know? Just because you trust what he has told you so far?

 

Again, wake up, please.

 

You sound sweet and personable. Don't waste your life on a man who is using you for his mistress. He has no intention of leaving his GF for you or any woman. She may kick him out, but he will not leave.

 

Move on, and find a man who will respect you.

 

You talk so much sense James...I always wonder how this man who can be so great in so many ways can behave like this to his gf and the daughters he says mean more to him than anything!!! And the same goes for me too - I wonder how I can behave like this - my parents have been married for 47 years, more in love now than ever. My dad would be lost without my mum and would die rather than hurt her.....so I can't understand why I have such little respect for myself and other people's relationships when I have only had strong, loving role models!! My parents would be so let down by me if they knew.

I don't think I will ever love a man the way I love him....it will take a LOT for me to pack up and go because there will be part of me that will think I'm kissing goodbye to the only man I might ever love. BUT..I still hope I'm able to do it!! I just can't bear the lies and deceit. Sometimes he can't...he calls it Catholic guilt. Plus there is that fear in me that most men might be like this - if my wonderful guy can be like this, perhaps anyone can!! It's rubbish - my head tells me so, but having this affair has changed how I see people.

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Posted
So what is it that you want to happen? 3 years later and you two are still having a hot passionate affair.....You are the OW. Can you see yourself being the OW for another 3 years? Is that enough for you? To be second fiddle? Things will never change unless YOU want it to change. This isn't a "real" relationship, it's all based on fun, fantasy and good feelings, not the 'real' stuff couples have to deal with in daily life. You only know the good stuff about him, stuff he wants you to know about..Affairyland..

 

Another thing, you might miss out on some great guy who can offer you so much more than this guy does..To have your own husband, a child, create a life with someone...Is he worth this?

 

Yip which that is true...I met a guy last autumn whom my pal set me up with - he was lovely, but it was over before it began as he just couldn't compare to my boss. I felt I couldn't betray him isn't that crazy (this other guy Stephen works at another shelter and my boss is his line manager and supervisor so you can imagine how it went down when the boss found out).

I would love to get married and have the kind of relationship that is based on more than just this!!

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Posted
Male = compartmentalized

 

Female = denial

 

I say this with all due respect and compassion. I'm a male.

 

Another example of a business/pleasure bomb waiting to go off :(

 

As long as your emotions aren't involved or you can disconnect from them, I'd say enjoy it while it lasts. Otherwise, I fear the fallout will be significant.

 

Morals are specific to each individual so I can't comment because I can't see the world through your eyes. I can empathize with your struggle in that regard.

 

My emotions are too much involved - I adore him and I told him once I would take the fall if the affair became public. He was so grateful (he didn't try to change my mind) so I think that says loads!!!:(

But...I do love my time with him. I just wish we could stay friends when I leave. I still have hope we can.

Posted
Plus there is that fear in me that most men might be like this - if my wonderful guy can be like this, perhaps anyone can!! It's rubbish - my head tells me so, but having this affair has changed how I see people.

This is another big danger. Do you want to go through life thinking people are untrustworthy?

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Posted

Hi Ella. No, definitely not!! I like trusting people, despite the hassles it can get me into!!! I don't want to look at people and wonder if they are all they seem!!

I just spoke to my flatmate about my boss and the advice I was getting here - she said she thinks he does care for me but she doesn't like how he speaks to me (albeit over text which is all she has seen). She said he's sleazy towards me!! What seems sexy to me and flirtatious might not even be that in reality.....I don't even know what's what anymore!!

Posted

The thing is that you are really looking at this as a normal relationship, whereas your friend has a more objective perspective. Your boss has love and security in his relationship with his wife. This relationship with you seems to be filling another need - excitement, sex... You said that you saw the fact that he still continued to see you after thinking you had told a friend as convincing that he has deep feelings for you. You overlooked the fact that he didn't speak to you for a week initially...

It seems that he is addicted to you. It is up to you what kind of a relationship you want to be in. This kind of relationship suits some people. Just be realistic about it.

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Posted

Thanks Ella - you are so right when you say he sees me as an addiction. I remember when he first told me that the best way he could describe how he felt was that i was his 'bad addiction' - I didn't like that at all!!! When he got the promotion to Director, which meant he was leaving the shelter where we both worked and moving to Head Office, he came to my apartment and when I opened the door he just grabbed me and hugged me really tightly...he kept asking how would he leave me and what was he doing??!! I was shocked that he would even consider passing up a promotion just to see me, but I think I knew deep down it wasn't out of any true love...just that he had become addicted to the thrill and excitement!!

Posted

We have got very good (sneaky?) at keeping it a secret..people have picked up on the chemistry

In an affair, you usually do get pretty good at being sneaky. It adds to the excitement. You usually mistake that excitement and illicitness for being "awesome chemistry". Well I did, at least.

 

The weird thing is, I seem to care more about his gf than he does - he has a reputation as a player (I was aware of this before we got together) and his gf is aware he cheated on her before. He hasn't cheated on me and he wouldn't either. He knows better I guess. The only reasons I would want it to end is so I am free to meet someone and his gf woun't get hurt or his family get torn apart.

 

James got it absolutely right.

 

You have a connection to his GF because you feel that the two of you have him in common. For some reason, you may feel a sisterhood connection with her that she would never feel with you. IMO, this helps you console your guilty conscience as you know you are hurting her every time you make love to the man who said he would be faithful to her...and has not been.

 

That is exactly how I felt when I was the OW. I felt like the W was almost my "friend". How stupid is that?

 

 

He never tells me he's unhappy with her - he is decent in that way. He never spins me lines.

 

Sweetheart, he is lying to LOTS of people. They always say they would never lie to YOU- thats how they keep you reeled in.

 

He is lying to his GF, the mother of his kids, his family, your workmates, practically everyone- what makes you so special that he wouldn't lie to you too? After all, how would you know? And what would you really do if you found out that he lied to you?

Posted
Thanks Ella - you are so right when you say he sees me as an addiction. I remember when he first told me that the best way he could describe how he felt was that i was his 'bad addiction' - I didn't like that at all!!! When he got the promotion to Director, which meant he was leaving the shelter where we both worked and moving to Head Office, he came to my apartment and when I opened the door he just grabbed me and hugged me really tightly...he kept asking how would he leave me and what was he doing??!! I was shocked that he would even consider passing up a promotion just to see me, but I think I knew deep down it wasn't out of any true love...just that he had become addicted to the thrill and excitement!!

These are little thrills. Maybe he cares, maybe he loves me. It is addictive for you too. Is it worth it though? Small thrills versus true love and contentment. What do you want?

Posted

Do you not see how easy you're making this for him? I mean you would even take all the fallout if you two got busted - He seemd thankful and relieved...Yeah, because YOU would be the bad guy, not him. He wouldn't have to suffer ANY consquences of his actions and choices of cheating on his wife and betraying his family, his children.

 

Sorry, but this MM does not really respect you. He lives IN the moment and gets what he wants, when he wants. If you are willing to give to him and do what he wants, then your affair will stay the way it is - Happy and selfish...

 

He isn't a good man when it comes to relationships. He lies to his gf, (Common Law Wife, mother of his child) so don't fool yourself into thinking he hasn't and won't lie to you. He will bend things to make HIM look like the good guy...You know this already.

 

He has ALOT to lose so if you two DO get busted one day, be prepared for him to turn on you completely.

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Posted

Hi SB...crazily I feel that the W is somehow close to me, and I think James is right - I feel a bond with her because we share him!! Or at least have in common!!!!

So often I hear that the MM tells the OW that he's leaving his wife, that he's miserable with her...but he has never insulted her or said anything derogatory about her and he has promised me nothing. I think then that he (this will sound bonkers:o) is somehow MORE decent than other cheats because he hasn't said these clichéd things to me...if that makes sense!! He tells me he loves his gf and his kids, so I think if he's honest about that and not spinning the usual yarns that MM often do, then he is honest in wanting to be with me!! I know...wishful thinking!!!!:(

Posted

I doubt his wife, mother of his children would feel that way. What he is doing is just as bad, he's in a more or less happy marriage and still cheating. That isn't honest, it's SELFISH. He isn't "decent", if he was he wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

 

What is it that you want out of this affair? Do you want him to leave his family for you? Or are you happy enough playing second fiddle, settling for less?

Posted
Hi SB...crazily I feel that the W is somehow close to me, and I think James is right - I feel a bond with her because we share him!! Or at least have in common!!!!

So often I hear that the MM tells the OW that he's leaving his wife, that he's miserable with her...but he has never insulted her or said anything derogatory about her and he has promised me nothing. I think then that he (this will sound bonkers:o) is somehow MORE decent than other cheats because he hasn't said these clichéd things to me...if that makes sense!! He tells me he loves his gf and his kids, so I think if he's honest about that and not spinning the usual yarns that MM often do, then he is honest in wanting to be with me!! I know...wishful thinking!!!!:(

I guess MM say what they have to for the result. He has the result.

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