Depression and self fulfilling prophecy

[oppath]

I've been depressed for over a year, starting just before a horrible breakup that really stuck a knife in me. I've made a lot of progress but have felt a persistent unhappiness at a moderate level. I started talking to a woman last July -- an old friend who used to date a buddy casually -- when I was away for a few months for work; we agreed to start dating when I got back, the bad part was she had a boyfriend she was going to dump. That is not the best choice, but it was what it was.

 

We dated long distance for a while as she was planning to move to my city, and she moved down here, only she broke up with me once when I called her and her ex was at her house. She was confused, it was too soon. Only, she showed up at my house a day or two later, we sleep together, and we are back on, only on my end, it's now casual, I am less invested.

 

That caused problems. She would sense me not being as invested and it would lead to her being disappointed. We almost broke up another time but worked it out. I was not seeing her often, only once every 1.5 weeks and I wanted more but I guess I was not asking for it. In November, after a LOVELY all day long date, she asked if I was willing to commit to a trip with her this spring, several months away. I told her I couldn't because we had not been together long enough -- having essentially broken up 1.5 times the previous month, for me to commit to a trip that I really couldn't afford 4-5 months in advance. Her argument was that we had been talking for several months now and I should have known if I loved her. I couldn't deal with the pressure and I walked away. I didn't want to, I just felt really low, like I was a bad boyfriend, and I was so unhappy in my life in general that I did not want to deal with the drama. There were a lot of little manipulative moments "if you loved me you'd do this" and I did not want to deal with them, but in fairness to her, she had valid points at times and I'd have felt disappointed in her shoes too. We both did or said things that left the other feeling invalidated.

 

Not a day has gone by where I haven't thought about her. We started talking again around Christmas and saw each other in January, even having sex. She wanted to know if I loved her and I couldn't say it. We were still talking almost every day for a couple weeks and finally I said "we need to get back together or take some space for each other. I am willing to talk it all out and discuss what went wrong before, but we are still flirting."

 

Shot down.

 

I'm ok with that, except I realize I have been severely depressed for months. I have not been sleeping. I have all the symptoms and even my therapists note the defeat in my eyes. My relationship with her was not tumultuous, she is my best friend. But one of the reasons I wasn't committing was because I was depressed and unhappy in my life. Small conflicts were something I'd choose to run from. Maybe those conflicts, with the right person, wouldn't exist, but I'm beginning to realize just how unhappy I had been in my life. I really question if I had been happy, would our relationship be different? This woman and I have a lot of love for each other. She admitted that she had fallen in love with me. She is my best friend. Everything I do, I think "I want her to do this with me."

 

Letting go of her...ok, move on, cope. I really want another chance but I asked and was refuted. I need to make my life awesome. The difficulty is coping with the fact that I really was not ready for a relationship. With anyone. I was not ready. I am going to go back on medications at the very least, to help me sleep, but I can't help shake the what-if feeling. TIMING is everything, and I was not ready. Perhaps I'm just forgetting the bad and missing the good of her. But really, I recognize now that I am in no place for a relationship. I am not consistently confident and upbeat and positive. I want to work on those issues, but it's really upsetting me that I possibly lost a great girl because of my issues. There is no evidence to that, it can easily be said "you weren't right for each other", but the more I think about it, the more I feel being depressed greatly impacted our relationship.

 

I've been in therapy. I made an appointment to go back on medications. I am working on my sleeping patterns. But I truly miss her and want her in my life. I know that can't be as friends, at least not now. And I know I am not my best self. I've basically been depressed 1 year on, 1 year off, and no matter what drugs I take or cognitive skills I've learned in therapy, it seems the evil gun of depression always has it's barrel at arms length towards my face. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. If I don't feel lovable and having worth, I'm not going to obtain love from someone worthwhile. I just don't know if this woman was not the one, or if I were happy and confident, if the results would have been different.

 

the thoughts that go through my head are "I'm worthless. I'm unlovable. I'm not good enough. I'm a piece of ****." They are chronic and horrible. This woman -- she loved me -- and I can't cope with the fact that maybe my depression is a reason it did not work out. Of course, maybe it didn't work out because we were not right for each other. But no woman will be right for me until I am happier and confident. My friends tell me "dude, you look so defeated." I am not my best self.

[sedgwick]

I, too, have struggled with depression for years. Been in and out of the hospital, many years of eating disorder BS, etc. And I'm surviving this most recent breakup. Barely, but surviving. Continuing to show up where I need to show up. It's something. So I acknowledge your efforts, and they're no small thing. You're doing what you need to do to get better. Bravo to you for that; a lot of people never even gain enough insight to see that they NEED therapy or medication. At least you're brave enough to admit it.

 

It boggles my mind to read on LS about all the men who loved the women they were with but left because they couldn't commit. When mine decided not to commit and bailed, I thought it meant that every single time he ever said he loved me was a lie. I'm trying to tell myself that's not the case, and that there ARE people out there who will run from a good thing out of fear of commitment. I've never had that fear, so I guess I just can't understand. It must be hard to live with.

 

Oh, and I catch myself telling myself I'm worthless, OUT LOUD, on impulse, several times a day. The guy who left me took every shred of my self-confidence and self-worth with him. I loathe myself too, because I wasn't good enough for him to really love and stick with. I am absolutely, 100% CONVINCED that I am unlovable, and I will never EVER admit to loving anyone again, because my love is nothing but a worthless annoyance. (Strangely enough, I'm sort of grateful to him for teaching me that lesson once and for all, because now I can never get hurt like this again.) I'm just trying to tell myself that maybe someday I'll feel better. I say all the mean things to myself that you say to yourself. It sucks.

Edited February 20, 2008 by sedgwick

[tanbark813]

I think there are two things here that are being inappropriately squished into one. The first is your depression. Yeah, things probably would have been different in your relationship if you weren't depressed. You'd probably also have a nicer car if you won the lottery. What if's don't matter so there's no point dwelling on them. And even if things were different that doesn't mean they'd necessarily be better.

 

The other thing is that this girl sounds manipulative and flaky. So even if you were Mr. Happy Go Lucky you might still be better off without her.

 

I know the feeling of wanting to share your life with someone and the "oh shyt" feeling wondering if the girl you broke up with was your last shot, but it isn't. There will be others. Don't continue a relationship with someone for no better reason than fear of being alone or not finding someone else. When you do find that someone else you'll look back and laugh for even entertaining the idea of continuing things with the ex anyway.

[Star Gazer]

I know the feeling of wanting to share your life with someone and the "oh shyt" feeling wondering if the girl you broke up with was your last shot, but it isn't. There will be others. Don't continue a relationship with someone for no better reason than fear of being alone or not finding someone else.

 

I totally hope you're right about this. My therapist said this is the next step in my progress...learning to realize that there WILL be others, and to let go of those who aren't right for me.

 

Oppath, you know I've got nothing but mad love for ya. I also agree with Tan in that even if you had been Mr. Sunshine, she wasn't right for you. Undeserving at best.

[oppath]

Thanks Tan, that's the kick in the butt I need. It's like I take all responsibility for the breakup. The fact of the matter is, it takes two people. She was a bit manipulative.

 

I mean -- after she ended it the first time and we were back on -- I asked her a couple times "do you need help with moving?" and "when can I see you again" and I received "no" and "I'm not sure." Hell, her ex from 5 year prior was in town for that weekend and she was going to see him for a couple hours but she couldn't guarantee me time. So I booked a camping trip. The conversation was like "you aren't going to help me move?" "I asked you if you needed help and you said no and you told me you weren't sure you were going to see me, so I made plans to go camping." "Can't you cancel?" "No, I love camping." "Do you love it as much as you loved me?" "I am sorry that I am not around to help. Do you have much stuff? Could I help you move the rest of it the next weekend or since your sister is moving in another couple weeks, can I make it up to you and help her move?" "No."

 

But I was not in love yet. It was far too soon. In reality, we only had maybe 12 dates total throughout several months. With starts and stops, it's not all my fault.

 

I am confusing two issues. The first is depression. A successful relationship can begin and endure when one person is depressed. Depressed people are in healthy relationships. With the right woman, I've got to think it would work, because I don't carry around a woe is me attitude. Sure, I project vulnerability when they ask about my vulnerabilities, but that is part of being intimate. I can work on my depression apart from a relationship.

 

This woman: she is my best friend and I have a lot of love for her. That does not make it right. Sure, she is a 10. She makes bank. She is affectionate and giving. She is cool and fun to hang out with. She loved me. That does not mean she is the one. I know, my family would say "you idiot, why aren't you dating her" but even if depressed, I've got to think if I met the woman who would someday be my wife, I'd fight tooth and nail for it. I think no matter how low I felt, I'd say "I want to be with you and only you."

 

I do this often, confuse a couple of issues such as career and dating and depression and dating. Sure, those issues overlap, but my moment of Venn is to realize the realm of overlap is not huge.

 

I can't allow depression to contaminate my thoughts. Sure, this girl was SMOKING HOT. But so was my last gf (in my eyes) and a f-buddy before that. It's not like other women, attractive, sweet, affectionate, and successful won't enter my life. I tell myself because of depression "it won't happen" or "it will take longer for me" but that doesn't mean jack. It will happen, and true, with depression I may miss out on opportunities, but if it has happened before, it will happen again. In the meantime, my focus needs to be on ME, it's ok to be self absorbed, and it is good to make my life pleasurable.

[ANGUISHEDandBROKEN]

So you werent ready for a relationship.......

 

Ok, have you thought that maybe you needed this as part of your growing/healing from your previous relationship, just like she needed you to forget her ex?

It seems to me the only thing wrong was to not put your cards out on the table from the beginning and make it clear that you both wanted to rebound on eachother....so you could have just had a casual/fwb relationship.

 

Dont sweat it, youve been through alot worse.... now this heartbreak is just a small reminder, and you will soon be ready for the real thing again.

 

I know nothing..... Im in the ****hole also.... but I think this sounded good.

[oppath]

I totally hope you're right about this. My therapist said this is the next step in my progress...learning to realize that there WILL be others, and to let go of those who aren't right for me.

 

Oppath, you know I've got nothing but mad love for ya. I also agree with Tan in that even if you had been Mr. Sunshine, she wasn't right for you. Undeserving at best.

 

I wouldn't say undeserving. If we had not dated, I'd want her to be one of my best friends. But you are right -- just because I was not Mr. Sunshine -- that doesn't mean it was my fault. Like I just mentioned in reply to Tan, depressed people initiated and sustain successful relationships ALL THE TIME. Those relationships are HEALTHY. If it did not happen for me, it's not the fault of my depression. It's no more my fault than hers and really, it is no one's fault. Two people can like each other VERY much but that doesn't mean it's quite right.

[Florida]

Nothing is ever quite right, and good things still happen even when depressed and suicidal.

 

Depression is a fact of life, how can life and it's realities not be depressing.

 

Keeping it in check so you don't end up without home and eating dog food is the biggest challenge.

 

You know what there is to live for-you really don't know what will happen each day, it is pure foolery to think that today will be like next week.

 

It'll get better, it'll get worse, some new crazy stuff happens, some of it even good.

[oppath]

Nothing is ever quite right, and good things still happen even when depressed and suicidal.

 

Depression is a fact of life, how can life and it's realities not be depressing.

 

Keeping it in check so you don't end up without home and eating dog food is the biggest challenge.

 

You know what there is to live for-you really don't know what will happen each day, it is pure foolery to think that today will be like next week.

 

It'll get better, it'll get worse, some new crazy stuff happens, some of it even good.

 

What you describe is not depression. Depression isn't just feeling down at some of the things life deals you. It is irrational and distorted thoughts about those situations and your worth and value as a person. For me, the thoughts are "I am a worthless piece of **** who is inadequate and unlovable who has no friends and isn't worth a damn." Tell yourself that 20 times a day and tell me how you feel?

 

Like Tan Said, I inappropriately convoluted two issues into one thread. There is overlap but it is only 10%. To feel confident requires a sense of efficacy in one's skills, one's ability to create the opportunities he desires, and a sense of self worth and value. The real issue is finding that value and feeling that sense of efficacy.

[pigeonsid]

Wow, Oppath - how do you separate the issues like that? I mean, I'm reading your posts and thinking that this is exactly the problem I have, I get mixed up and end up blaming myself for my ex leaving me because I feel that if I hadn't been depressed, or if I had actually recognised that I was depressed then we wouldn't have fought so much. (I think that I was unhappy and blaming him for my unhappiness, which I feel really guilty for now.)

 

But see - I still find it difficult to even see how to separate the issues. Rationally, it makes sense that the depression and the relationship are two different things. But I know that being depressed made me put lots of extra pressure on my ex and on my relationship. For instance, I stopped wanting to go out so much and I wanted him to stay at home with me a lot, which eventually was one of the reasons he left me (because he felt like he was just losing his life). But now when I look back on it, I understand that I was behaving like that because I was depressed, I was finding it more difficult to socialise. But not being aware of that, I just kept getting angry at him for not being able to make me happy. So doesnt' that mean that it was my depression that ended the relationship?

 

(Sorry if this is bringing down the tone of your thread, but it would be really helpful if you could explain your process of how to separate these things out.)

[Florida]

What you describe is not depression. Depression isn't just feeling down at some of the things life deals you. It is irrational and distorted thoughts about those situations and your worth and value as a person. For me, the thoughts are "I am a worthless piece of **** who is inadequate and unlovable who has no friends and isn't worth a damn." Tell yourself that 20 times a day and tell me how you feel?

 

Like Tan Said, I inappropriately convoluted two issues into one thread. There is overlap but it is only 10%. To feel confident requires a sense of efficacy in one's skills, one's ability to create the opportunities he desires, and a sense of self worth and value. The real issue is finding that value and feeling that sense of efficacy.

 

Oppath essentially what you are saying is you felt really bad about yourself since the last break up, and becuse of that it is causing a downward spiral causing you to feel worse. Each subsequent relationship compunded those feelings of inadequacy resulting from the initial break up.

 

All those self hating thoughts are from the internal hate speak because of the first break up, and honestly will probably continue until you meet someone who you really like again.

 

Then it won't matter if you are depressed or whatever, replacing her will do wonders. Unfortunately, once one is hurt, it provokes a mad quest for replacement that can cause more harm.

 

I know people hate this theory, because what I'm saying is yes, meeting someone you are into WILL remove these issues because they were all brought up with the 1st heartbreak.

[Kamille]

I've been thinking about starting a thread about self-fulfilling prophecies, because they seem to happen a lot here on LS. If people have faith that things in their love life are going to work out, they do. If people think they are unlucky, they are. If someone has a theory that the less available they are, then the more their SO will love them, it happens. If someone thinks that no one would date old, self-perceived-fat brunettes, then said brunette doesn't actually get dates.

 

But Oppath, I don't think yours is a case of self-fulfilling prophecy. More of a case of perfectionnism if you ask me. Why would you need to be perfect, perfectly healty, perfectly stable to be loved? I guess what is self-fulfilling in your case is that you don't think you deserve love until you have attained x, y or z. I beg to differ. You deserve to be love just as you are.

 

Why not simply stop trying to attain x y or z and start working on accepting who you are now, feeling bummed out and all?

[EllaDerSpin]

I dont know, what is a relationship, but two people who connect at the same time, in that moment it all fits. Then it could be weeks or months or even years later, suddenly they no longer fit. What do you do? Go around unhappy because you werent the right shape for that jigsaw at that particular time?

You know, beating yourself up is a symptom of depression, and that is what you are doing. Perhaps you messed it up because you were depressed, or perhaps you only think you messed it up because you are depressed.

[oppath]

I didn't mess anything up. And those feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness have been present since childhood. The depression started BEFORE the previous breakup. Yes, that really gutted me, especially given other things in my life that left me feeling vulnerable.

 

I agree Florida, if I meet someone I'm really crazy about, it will ease a lot of those feelings. However, depression takes it's toll in my day to day life and I really feel it limits who I meet.

 

I think a dating break like the one proposed to D-Lish would be a good thing. Give myself 2-3 months. In the meantime, I am going back to the doctor.

 

Sleep is the biggest issue. Despite changing my bedtime habits (though I need to do better), I can't sleep at night because of anxiety. Sleeping pills aren't the answer, but removing the anxiety somehow is. I do muscle relaxation, etc, but I can't sleep.

[EllaDerSpin]

I didnt say you messed anything up. You said you were wondering if you did, in different wording. I was trying to offer a different perspective. Sorry if I didnt word that very well.

[carrotgirl]

Oppath, the way you related this is so very similar to my GD in terms of depression and finding someone so right and still, not right enough? or not right at that time? not right for you don't know what the reasons are? It was inarguable for my relationship with GD then and it still is now. What you feel is yours to feel and you deserve to feel it even if the feeling sucks.

 

I'll echo Spinders and say there are times when everything comes together and for however long it is good, then it is good. And at a certain point something tips and then what? If now it's not as good does it mean there was fault? And even if there was fault does that mean you should be stay in a situation when you're unhappy?

 

But unlike my friend Spinders, and it's said with love and understanding Spind! Sometimes the best thing to do when dealing with tension between two objects isn't to stay still, it isn't to pull back and wait for something to snap, it's to move toward the other object.

 

This takes tremendous courage. And depending on what or who's at the other end of the tether, patience. When there's no pull, we have to rely on our own judgment and capabilities and desires to live this life. When there's no pull we have no choice but to be responsible for ourselves and our actions.

 

Sometimes what is really sucking in our relationships is that heinous old fear of commitment. Or fear of anything really. Fear of failing. Fear of falling. Fear is insidious.

 

Kamille also had a good point about perfectionism. I'll add to that: it's important to consider that those of us who love you as you are with regular old life negatives like being depressed, stubborn, confused ... you didn't say this but I think GD has more than a touch of this so I'm putting it out there. Try not to despise or resent us, the ones who happen to love you, just because you think you're not 100%. Make sense?

 

As much as I want to, I just can't buy into the self-fulfilling prophecy power of positive thinking thing. It strikes me as being a seriously self-defeatist way of living life. It just reinforces the idea that if something bad is happening to you, you must have done something to deserve it. You were negative or you somehow failed to ______. What a lot of slop!

 

Bad things happen. It's a fact. Sometimes things really suck for a while and all we can do is suffer through until they don't suck as much.

 

I hear a lot of folks say things like, when you're depressed you only attract people who are depressed, and when you're happy, happy people will want to be around you. I've had the opposite reaction as often as not. There's just no magic rule about other people. They're as unique and changeable as we are!

 

This much I do know, it takes a lot of guts to be so vulnerable and talk so freely about oneself the way you are here. I'm incredibly touched by your words. Thank you for sharing them.

 

Carrot

[underpants]

Oh Oppath,

 

Sorry you are down.

 

Here is what stood out for me.

 

She had a boyfriend. Come on...you know that is not good. How many times have you advised others' to steer clear of that drama? Explained how your lesson was to not be a transitional person? Why put yourself there?

 

I know when 'in it' you want to paint it differently and yes, she is a great friend. However, why is that? Self fulfilling prophecy might explain the attraction.

 

This might explain why your posts were so up and flirty around Christmas time.

 

It could be that you are so used to the pattern that you unconsciously seek it out or rationalize the flags away when they present themselves.

 

A part of you knows that it is a bad road. That could explain some of the depression.

 

I just don't think love should be so hard, you know?

 

You are a cutie, so I am sure alot of girls would be happy to be noticed by you. You are smart and introspective, and that is a bonus.

 

Break out of the similiar and go for something completely unexpected.

 

Chin up. Change your outlook.

 

(hugs)

[Trialbyfire]

I'm sorry to hear that you're so down, oppath. Remember, no one defines you. Don't let an ex control or define who you are, in her absence or with her presence.

 

Analyze your life. What aspects are positive and negative? Retain the positive and slowly eject or change the negative, at the pace you're comfortable with. Pretty soon, your life will be a happier experience, surrounded by people who are good for you, thus creating an environment that conducive to healthy emotional well-being.

 

Once again oppath, baby steps. Start with the one pair of pants that you hate. Throw them out. Wash, rinse and repeat.