blind_otter Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 guess we'll have to come up with some kind of piss/blood/dna test that shows lying, cheating, and any otherwise deceitful behaviour in men. Well, the implications for foisting off another man's child on an innocent guy are pretty staggering. Take my friend who I cited earlier in the thread - he spent 4 years taking care of a daughter than in the end was not his. AFAIK he's not getting his child support money back from the mother, and he has had to cut ties with a child that he really bonded with and took care of for a long time. The biological reality is that men CAN'T lie and get a woman to support another woman's child.
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 so? women have been leery for years, yet you don't see the average couple giving men lie detectors annually, do you? i mean, it's only fair. what a world, it's sad that people have to think this way. whatever happened to common decency? if a woman has to take a paternity test simply because she has the burden of proof in her body for all to see, then maybe men should have to prove themselves too. how convenient though, that paternity test are more accurate than lie detectors... guess we'll have to come up with some kind of piss/blood/dna test that shows lying, cheating, and any otherwise deceitful behaviour in men. sorry, this just really gets my goat. the hypocrisy is vomit-inducing. There is a big difference in proving if you have cheated and spending a life supporting a child that is not yours.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Well, the implications for foisting off another man's child on an innocent guy are pretty staggering. Take my friend who I cited earlier in the thread - he spent 4 years taking care of a daughter than in the end was not his. AFAIK he's not getting his child support money back from the mother, and he has had to cut ties with a child that he really bonded with and took care of for a long time. The biological reality is that men CAN'T lie and get a woman to support another woman's child. no, but he can still lie and cheat on the mother of his children, and get away with it while asking her to prove her fidelity. that's what i have a problem with. i can see why a man wouldn't want to raise another's child, but i can also see why a woman wouldn't want to raise her children with a lying bastard. it's not just men supporting women and their children anymore, and just because there's money involved in paternity doesn't make it any more of a problem than what a man can do to ruin a relationship/family. i guess i'm just in the school of thought that if you can't trust someone enough to not test them, don't be in a serious relationship.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 There is a big difference in proving if you have cheated and spending a life supporting a child that is not yours. and it's okay for a woman to spend a lifetime creating and maintaining a family with someone who lies and cheats on her just because he is supporting his child? who may have cheated and had children with other women she doesn't even know about, and hiding it while supporting them too, simply because 'there is no test for that'? there's a lot more to it than just not wanting to raise someone else's child. it's not just men who get screwed, you know. men can't get pregnant. if they could, it would be a whole new ballgame.
blind_otter Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 no, but he can still lie and cheat on the mother of his children, and get away with it while asking her to prove her fidelity. that's what i have a problem with. i can see why a man wouldn't want to raise another's child, but i can also see why a woman wouldn't want to raise her children with a lying bastard. it's not just men supporting women and their children anymore, and just because there's money involved in paternity doesn't make it any more of a problem than what a man can do to ruin a relationship/family. i guess i'm just in the school of thought that if you can't trust someone enough to not test them, don't be in a serious relationship. but there are no longterm financial repurcussions in that scenario. 18 years is a long time to pay for someone else's kid. It happens. Both my parents are illegitimate and didn't know until they were well past middle age.
Art_Critic Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) There is a big difference in proving if you have cheated and spending a life supporting a child that is not yours. Are you suggesting that every man question the paternity of his child when the person he is with tells him she is pregnant ? How nuts... I certainly can see a paternity test as a valid form of checking this in a relationship that has trust problems on both sides or cheating....but not in a good relationship. There is a difference in the conversation if it goes like this : Honey, I'm pregnant !!! and Honey, I'm pregnant !!! and your the father... The latter should get a paternity test...or if a guy really feels he isn't the father.. I think most guys who say that kind of crap are just trying one more last time to shuck their responsibilities and are waiting for a court to make them.... Good luck with getting REAL SUPPORT from a guy who makes you prove paternity from the get go... The guy is going to hard to deal with and most likely if a divorce happens will become your worst nightmare. Edited February 19, 2008 by Art_Critic
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 and it's okay for a woman to spend a lifetime creating and maintaining a family with someone who lies and cheats on her just because he is supporting his child? who may have children she doesn't even know about, because there is no test for that? there's a lot more to it than just not wanting to raise someone else's child. men can't get pregnant. if they could, it would be a whole new ballgame. Genetically speaking, this mother in question would be spending resources raising her own offspring.
Art_Critic Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Or he's a guilty SOB and he's projecting his behavior onto the OP. Funny.. I asked the same question Well Liz.. is he cheating on you ? ... Not to sound like a naysayer but him not being true to her is also a possibility to why he made that comment.
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Are you suggesting that every man question the paternity of his child when the person he is with tells him she is pregnant ? NO! What I am saying is that this happens A LOT and that if a man feels the need to have this validated then he should be able to do that.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Genetically speaking, this mother in question would be spending resources raising her own offspring. yes, and also spending resources, financial and emotional, helping to maintain a family under the guise that she is being the told the truth. not any better. husband: i wasted resources on a child who wasn't mine. wife: i wasted resources on a marriage that was a complete lie.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 NO! What I am saying is that this happens A LOT and that if a man feels the need to have this validated then he should be able to do that. if he feels the need to have this validated, it shouldn't be with a wife. maybe some skank you take home one night and accidentally knock up, yeah, then ask for proof. but to demand it from someone you married, for no good reason? marriage is not made for paranoid hypocrites.
blind_otter Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 if he feels the need to have this validated, it shouldn't be with a wife. maybe some skank you take home one night and accidentally knock up, yeah, then ask for proof. but to demand it from someone you married, for no good reason? marriage is not made for paranoid hypocrites. Well, bringing this conversation back on topic -- the OP is not married. She is speaking of her boyfriend. Hi, I'm new here, and I really need some objective advice... My boyfriend and I have been together about 4 years now. I'm pretty sure we'll never agree. Both my parents were secretly illegitimate and didn't know until they were well past 50. So I'm well aware that it happens and I don't have a problem submitting to a paternity test.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) Well, bringing this conversation back on topic -- the OP is not married. She is speaking of her boyfriend. her first post indicates they are planning on marriage and children. since she seems to plan on being married first (though it doesn't always work out that way!) it would appear he wants a paternity test regardless, even after marriage. they are boyfriend/girlfriend now, but this subject came up when discussing marriage and children. We've always assumed we were eventually going to get married and have kids together. Recently, we were discussing the topic and he dropped this little bombshell: When we have a child, he wants to get a paternity test after the baby is born to make sure it's his(!) WTF?! Edited February 19, 2008 by KenzieAbsolutely
blind_otter Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 her first post indicates they are planning on marriage and children. since she seems to plan on being married first (though it doesn't always work out that way!) it would appear he wants a paternity test regardless, even after marriage. huh. my bad. Both my sets of grandparents were married. My dad's parents had been married quite a while and had already had 4 children when my dad was conceived out of wedlock.
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 yes, and also spending resources, financial and emotional, helping to maintain a family under the guise that she is being the told the truth. not any better. husband: i wasted resources on a child who wasn't mine. wife: i wasted resources on a marriage that was a complete lie. I don't really see how marriage has anything to do with this, it is just a cultural institution. The argument that it isn't "fair" that you can test the children of a women for their fathers but not a father for his offspring is irrelevant.
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 And if the man who is the subject of this thread feels a need to have that validated with any woman he considers having children with, regardless of a lack of reason for it, he will never have any. If my man, who I thought loved and trusted me, demanded a paternity test, he'd be out on his ear, paternity results in hand, as well as an order for child support. Well there are many wonderful women out there who are good wives and mothers. The are some who are not. 1:10 fathers have been tricked, that is a pretty big number...
lovelorcet Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 But if he feels she is one of the "some who are not," why would he even want to father a child with her in the first place, let alone be involved in a relationship with her? If he feels she is worth being in a relationship with, why insult her in the way that he has? Honestly? I think what is said was in bad taste but you have no clue what kind of back ground he may have. Maybe this is actually something he has experience with, this is not pretty when it does come out.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I don't really see how marriage has anything to do with this, it is just a cultural institution. The argument that it isn't "fair" that you can test the children of a women for their fathers but not a father for his offspring is irrelevant. i don't feel this way, for all the reasons i've previously mentioned. when people get married, they aren't usually thinking 'oh well, it's just a cultural institution'. there are actual emotions, commitments, feelings, responsibilities. not to mention, most women/wives/mothers don't think, 'oh well, if he has other kids, it won't bother me cause what i don't know won't hurt me'. so, yes, it is rather relevant that one can be proven and not the other, and that one be subject to humiliation and questioning without just cause. i understand what you're saying, i just disagree that that's all there is to it, and you're completely missing the point. i don't know how else to explain it, so i won't.
KenzieAbsolutely Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 If that's his issue, then he needs help from a psychologist to overcome his "baggage" prior to becoming involved in a relationship again. I don't care what the issue is, there is no excuse for treating your supposed love one this way. agreed. well-said. no one who feels this way, no matter how justified they think their feelings are, should enter into a commitment with someone who doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. ew. people's attitudes make me sick sometimes.
Author Liz Posted February 20, 2008 Author Posted February 20, 2008 Wow, thank you everyone for your opinions. I didn't expect to get so many responses in such a short amount of time. I certainly have a lot to think about. I'll keep in touch
BentSpine Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 10 %. Let's for a moment focus on the minority of women who lets a man believe he's the father when he's actually not. It's beyond my imagination how any person could do such a horrible thing. The very thought of the deception makes my literally sick in my stomach. Unfortunately, the only way to expose these abominable women are to make the paternity test. Every paternity test made helps to make the test a little more standard, a little less personal, and the increased use of the test will bring out the truth about these minority women. Let's all help the poor guy who is being hoodwinked by saying HELL YEAH to paternity tests.
Ariadne Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 10 %. Let's for a moment focus on the minority of women... (BentSpine... you are my LS poster idol . You rock)
BentSpine Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 (BentSpine... you are my LS poster idol . You rock) Thanks, Ariadne! That was kind of you to think, and even kinder of you to say.
Ariadne Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 Thanks, Ariadne! That was kind of you to think, and even kinder of you to say. You are welcome. I think you are very wise.
Recommended Posts