richardcruz Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 When i got home last night at 3:00 am, I knew I had to talk to someone. However I was a little too tired to hop on loveshack so I told myself I'd post as soon as I'd wake up. Anyways here is the problem. Well its gonna be almost a month since I started NC with my ex. Many of you are familiar w my story, and for those of you that aren't http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t141...t=dying+inside Basically my gf of a year broke up with me in Dec of last year and said she needed time. This wasn't the first time she broke up with me. She always came back in all of the other instances within a week. The reasons for here leaving were becase she felt she wasn't ready for a relationship. So this Dec when she broke up with me she told me that she just needed the space. Well for sometime i did all the classic mistakes; begging, crying, going to her home...the works. Finally she just told me that she had lost all feelings for me and that she didn't want me to call her. It wasn't this smooth of a transition actually. For details read my original post. In short she completely treated me like gum under her shoe. One of the things that still hurts is when I told her that I couldn't give up on her becuase she asked me never to. She told me 'well do you want me to start seeing someone so you'll get the message.' I started crying. I told her I missed talking to her and she told me 'well your just going to have to get used to it.' I started crying even more and asked here why she was being so cold with me and that I hadn't done anything to deserve this. She told me that she didn't have time for this and that I was acting too dramatic and she just hung up on me.....<FAST FORWARD TO TODAY> That whole conversation happended over a month and yet I replay it over and over in my mind and it hurts just as much as the day it happened. I have been trying to go out alot with my friends to clubs and bars but I think that in itself is breaking me more from the inside. I almost feel like I'm forced to socialize and I still don't find most of the girls apealing. The ones that I would want to talk to I can't. My self esteem is so shot that its saddening. This has never been the case for me as I had always been pretty confident but this last breakup completely destroyed me. I look in the mirror and I seen an unattractive person. So much so that I'm planning on getting cosmetic surgery this coming month. My ears tend to stick out a tad more than what I think is normal so I want to get that corrected. My teeth aren't as straight as they should be (yet there really not that crooked) so I'm going to be getting invisilign braces. I feel self conscious about my muscle size and would like to be alot bigger. I was thinking of jumping on testostorone. This one is kinda one of those that I really need to think about because I hear that i can give you severe mood swings and thats the last thing that i need. As of lately for some reason I have been having more suicidal thoughts, almost as many as I was having when she first left me. I'm currently seeing a therapist and i'll probably be getting on and anti-dep. I was on one before but stopped taking it. I feel like I have to get out there and pickup on someone because she is probably doing the same. But I can't build my confidence because I feel unattractive and abandoned. I feel sooo depressed every time I wake after a night of heavy drinking and staying out late. Maybe its the alcohol? The suicidal thoughts come pretty heavy on days like today. For these past few days I've been wanting to text her so bad but I know I can't.. The flip side to this is that I think to myself "why hasn't she called me? Did I truly mean nothing to her to the point where she knows how f#@ked up she was to me yet she'll never make an effort to call me back?" This drives me deeper into depression and I feel like my whole life is spiraling down and I have nothing to hold on to..I don't know what to do anymore.. anyone please help.. im lost.
eagle5 Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 RC have read your story and feel what you are saying right now, listen man DON'T to test'rone or anything similar, get a stack load of protein shakes and hit the gym like crazy, use your anger on the weights and think of how she hurt you every time you can't push that last rep...... that stuff (test) is really bad and will make you feel so much worse in the long run, some friends have done it in the past and it does make a person agressive and can cause physical problems that you REALLY don't need at the moment. It's good you are going to a councellor? If you are having suicidal thoughts you do need to talk to someone, don't be alone. Remember in the big picture of your whole life, she is 1 person, you have your whole life, god it so easy to say but I bet you have influenced so many people around you in a positive way, and you will do in the future. And hey don't go out expecting to find a replacement for her, that isn't going to happen until the time is right. Just go out and enjoy your time with your mates and maybe try to meet a few females just as friends. It will happen when it happens! Try to stop going over that conversation in your mind, it IS in the past and trying to analyse it or correct it won't make it easier, it'll just keep you in turmoil, whenever you feel the urge to go over it in your mind again change the thought to something else if you can. Feeling less attractive is a normal thing, but it's not true, you are the same person you where when you met her, you just feel like s**t because she's kicked your confidence levels into the gutter. BUT you are that person you were, you will start to see it eventually, give yourself time mate, it's a long and rough road but you are on it heading in the right direction. Keep strong, stay strong, you will end up strong.......Eagle
latefragment Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 I completely understand what you're going through, and feel much the same way you do. Except I feel like I've actually given up completely. It's not because of one (the most recent) person, for me... it's this feeling of everyone who's ever rejected me. I mean, I'm still going to the gym like crazy and making it to work, but other than that, I'm finished.
Miyamoto Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 I know these feelings.... Alcohol does not help. These feelings are only being compounded because of it...I would know...I'm a pretty stable person, but after this breakup, I did what you did, went out a lot, and I had suicidal thoughts to go along with my hangovers...they scared the crap out of me. I actually thought I could do it. Just end it right there. So I stopped drinking before bed. Weights are good. Boxing is good too. She's actually doing you a favor not calling you...thank her for not putting you on a leash and giving you false hope. You will come out of this.
Author richardcruz Posted February 18, 2008 Author Posted February 18, 2008 You know at times the only relief I get is from getting some feedback from LS'ers. It shows me that I'm not alone in my suffering and that others can relate. I think I'm gonna completely cut out alcohol for a while. It's really gonna be hard to do because most of the social events that I go to tend to involve drinking but I cant do this anymore. The next day always feels worse and my depression is gettting realy bad. I guess youre right EAGLE everything will happen when the time is right. Its just that I always think that maybe she is already seeing someone and I feel pressured to meet someone. It would kill me to run into her and see her with someone else. It would make it even more hurtful if I knew I hadn't met someone yet. But then again what are the chances of running into her (I live in a big bustling city) and I guess most importantly I shouldn't worry about what she is doing. I can relate with you LATEFRAGMENT in the sense of just going to work and the gym. I feel like completely giving up on everything and at times I just feel like a complete shell. I feel like just giving up on the whole social scene for now and just focus on getting in shape. Anyways I haven't really been having a good time when I've gone out. Then again I worry that I'm just gonna get to thinking about everything if I stay home and I don't want to do that.
latefragment Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 I know what you mean. I get that way too. i want to stay home and sulk but then I feel if I don't go out I'll stay home and ruminate so I force myself to go out (or do whatever it is I need/want to do) but then you do it in a zombie state. I've never felt this way before - I've felt severe pain from breakups and rejection but this feeling of "giving up all hope" is new to me. It's so weird that it actually feels calming to give up entirely.
dfreeman Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 So I stopped drinking before bed. Doesn't everybody stop drinking before they go to bed?
dfreeman Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 It's really funny to me how many people just work this s#1t out at the gym. I am doing it (I actually started back about 6 weeks before the break up) and without that outlet and LS, I personally think my recovery would be coming on a lot slower. I don't just go to the gym either - I go there angry! Between losing 16 pounds in 3 mos, and getting some sun (some real, some fake), a couple of my friends said that I look about 10 years younger. I still feel a little crappy about my current situation when I go out, but at least I have the confidence of looking better (5' 9" - 184 now). On nights when I don't go out, I come home from the gym and catch-up on LS. So, stick with what helps you get rid of that s#1tty gut ache - for me, it's the gym and this forum.
eagle5 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 It's really funny to me how many people just work this s#1t out at the gym. I am doing it (I actually started back about 6 weeks before the break up) and without that outlet and LS, I personally think my recovery would be coming on a lot slower. Yep I'm at the gym too and in a few months (or maybe more) I hope she sees the new me, and by then I'll be just look at her smugly and say 'yeah you left this baby' and walk off feeling good!!! Yeah alright reality check, I'd still crumble but I have that image in my mind when doing those reps...
Miyamoto Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Doesn't everybody stop drinking before they go to bed? Yes. :bunny::bunny: You retard. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Author richardcruz Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 These past few days have been really bad. Honestly I think this weekend has been the worst days I've had in these past weeks. I feel like I need to be on 24 hour surveillance by someone else to keep me from calling her. I miss her horribly and it hurts really bad. My will is only so strong and I feel like I can't do another day of NC. This is by far the longest period of time that I have gone without calling her it seems that it has come up in my thoughts at least every five minutes. I so want to text her and just tell her 'hi'. I don't want her to forget about me. I feel like the longer we go without talking each other, the more distant my memory is going to become. Im even starting to get high anxiety (bordering on a panic attack) when I think about it. What do I? I wish i could end all of my suffering. I can't live like this anymore.
sedgwick Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 richardcruz, and all the rest of you, i just wanted to say that i understand so completely how all of you are feeling. i'm 7 months in and still feel like it just happened. i cannot fathom loving or trusting again. i've taken breakups hard before, but never like this. i feel like my twin left me. i am absolutely gutted and my self-esteem is shot. thank god for everyone on LS. this is helping me so much.
dfreeman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Hey Richard, I know you feel like your world is slipping away and you can't go another day, but you have to realize how much worse you will feel if you don't get the kind of response you want. Also, if you ever want to even stand a chance of getting her back, then you need to leave her alone now. Try to find another source of strength and dig deep man - you can do it.
Issues & tissues Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 richardcruz, and all the rest of you, i just wanted to say that i understand so completely how all of you are feeling. i'm 7 months in and still feel like it just happened. i cannot fathom loving or trusting again. i've taken breakups hard before, but never like this. i feel like my twin left me. i am absolutely gutted and my self-esteem is shot. thank god for everyone on LS. this is helping me so much. Spot on Sedgwick. I too am doing NC and there are days when I am in the grip of fear of losing him forever. It's a rocky road but I have already past the point of no return and that point was where he walked away leaving me standing at a crossroads not knowing which way to go. Sometimes we are required to go through life alone so that we don't forget who we really are. This has been the most difficult journey I have ever had to take but the one which has reavealed the most about me. Thank god for LS and all the wonderful people who contribute to this site daily - you pick me up and dust me down whenever I fall flat and put me right back on track. ya'll I&T
prisonbreak Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Richard, keep going to the counselor. Work thru what's really bothering you. Yes, she left and it's sad, but why do you long to be with someone who is sooooooooooo unworthy? You deserve better. She's mean. She says hurtful things to you with no regard to your feelings. And you still long for this woman? Don't take this the wrong way (it's my opinion), I don't think this is about her. She is representing something, what is it? Just go with me for a second on this. Ok, so let's say it's not about her. So let's say she came back to you, what thoughts would be deleted by her return? Thoughts of unattractiveness, rejection, abandonment...etc. In your mind, by making things right with her, would that make all your fears and issues go away? She is not your source of self-esteem and self-worth. You need to find what is. You are hanging everything on her. When she left and rejected you, you allowed her to take everything about you with her. Don't allow her to do that. You don't need to get her approval to feel good about yourself. You think you do right now, but you don't. Richard, I truly believe you miss her and what you had, and that's normal and healthy, that's ok, But right now, where you are at mentally, this is no longer about her. Based on your thoughts and reactions, this is about you. Something needs to get healed in you, something much deeper from your past. She may be representing a previous abondonment issue from childhood. In your mind, by making this right with her, cleans the slate from the past hurt. But it doesn't work that way. Go deeper in yourself and find out why and the root of the real pain. IT'S NOT ABOUT HER. Ok, now this that being said, i could be wrong. I don't know you personally and I don't know your past, so forgive me if I'm way off base. This is my opinion, so take it for a grain of salt if I'm wrong. But what if I am right? I am in no way trying to minimize your feelings for her, because I know you really love her and want her back. I'm just reading your posts here and i can see you in pain, and agony. Based on alot of your thoughts regarding her rejection, especially the suicidal ones, leads me to believe there is something much deeper going on here. Remember, she is NOT your source of life, she never was and never will be (even if you two are together in the end). Once you realize this and realize she is a mean person, you'll understand and you'll conclude that, You don't want to be with her. She's mean. She's heartless. You could argue the fact that, at one time she was nice and had a heart for you, but right now she is showing her true colors. She's not the cat's meow. She is unworthy of your love. God is clearing her away from you, He has a plan and something better in store for you. Tell yourself that every day. I posted index cards all over my bathroom mirror, so when i'd get ready in the morning before facing my aweful day ahead of me, I'd read these things. do the same. Remind yourself this constantly, remind yourself of the truth. Carry the cards with you. Whenever you start spirallying down, pull out your cards and fill yourself with the truth. Right now your filling your head with lies about not being worthy. Here are a few of what my cards said; I am a good person, I am special, I am loved. I may not understand what's going on right now, but I know God is working behind the scenes in my favor. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change. Make some truths for yourself too. You can do it Richard, something good has got to come out of this for you, all this pain is not in vein. Try to find the gift and blessing in all of this. Try to be grateful for the things you have in life. Be greatful you have ears to hear, yeah they may stick out some, but stop looking at the negative! Hey, Richard, you have ears, that's great!!!!! Richard you are smart, articulate, talented, and you care, which means you have a heart, you can feel. You are valuable, creative, and kind. God created you, instilled you with these gifts. You have the favor of God. But it's up to you to work this out. God has a great plan for your life, a bright future is in store for you. No obstacle in your life, large or small, is insurmountable. God's power in you is greater than the ower that's trying to hold you back. Don't let anything or anyone on earth master you. Your loved unconditionally just as you are. Keep moving forward, keep dreaming, keep pressing forward and never forget that you alread posses everything you need to live a blessed, prosperous, healthy joy-filled, abundant, long happy life!
BalancenLuv20 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Remember, she is NOT your source of life, she never was and never will be (even if you two are together in the end). Once you realize this and realize she is a mean person, you'll understand and you'll conclude that, You don't want to be with her. She's mean. She's heartless. You could argue the fact that, at one time she was nice and had a heart for you, but right now she is showing her true colors. She's not the cat's meow. She is unworthy of your love. God is clearing her away from you, He has a plan and something better in store for you. Tell yourself that every day. I posted index cards all over my bathroom mirror, so when i'd get ready in the morning before facing my aweful day ahead of me, I'd read these things. do the same. Remind yourself this constantly, remind yourself of the truth. Carry the cards with you. Whenever you start spirallying down, pull out your cards and fill yourself with the truth. Right now your filling your head with lies about not being worthy. Here are a few of what my cards said; I am a good person, I am special, I am loved. I may not understand what's going on right now, but I know God is working behind the scenes in my favor. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change. Make some truths for yourself too. You can do it Richard, something good has got to come out of this for you, all this pain is not in vein. Try to find the gift and blessing in all of this. Try to be grateful for the things you have in life. Be greatful you have ears to hear, yeah they may stick out some, but stop looking at the negative! Hey, Richard, you have ears, that's great!!!!! Richard you are smart, articulate, talented, and you care, which means you have a heart, you can feel. You are valuable, creative, and kind. God created you, instilled you with these gifts. You have the favor of God. But it's up to you to work this out. God has a great plan for your life, a bright future is in store for you. No obstacle in your life, large or small, is insurmountable. God's power in you is greater than the ower that's trying to hold you back. Don't let anything or anyone on earth master you. Your loved unconditionally just as you are. Keep moving forward, keep dreaming, keep pressing forward and never forget that you alread posses everything you need to live a blessed, prosperous, healthy joy-filled, abundant, long happy life! Prisonbreak this is quite possibly one of the most touching replies I have ever read on this board towards someone. To say that to a complete stranger who you don't even know, God bless you. I think I am going to take up your index card idea too, geez who would've thought a crappy piece of paper used for memorization could bring so much joy to one's life. Richard this is a time to surround yourself around people who you know love you. Family members are a wonderful source to confide in, those that have been by your side since day one. They will not abandon you and their love is unconditional. The world may seem like they could care less, but there are those that DO care. Prisonbreak cares, I care, and many of us here at LS care...It's ok to cry, it's ok to grieve...but please please look back and remember where you came from...I'm sure you have battled through a lot in your life...give yourself a pat on the back...whenever I hit rockbottom and teared up Id just say, "Chris, you're a good guy, not a bad guy, you're a good guy not a bad guy" I just said it over and over...richard just try and from the bottom of that good heart of yours be good to yourself and be good to other people not so you can get a new girlfriend, but because you are Richard who is a caring, talented, personable, and magnificent human being who wants to show what he has to offer to the world...best of wishes, keep us posted...
SarahT111 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Richard, keep going to the counselor. Work thru what's really bothering you. Yes, she left and it's sad, but why do you long to be with someone who is sooooooooooo unworthy? You deserve better. She's mean. She says hurtful things to you with no regard to your feelings. And you still long for this woman? Don't take this the wrong way (it's my opinion), I don't think this is about her. She is representing something, what is it? Just go with me for a second on this. Ok, so let's say it's not about her. So let's say she came back to you, what thoughts would be deleted by her return? Thoughts of unattractiveness, rejection, abandonment...etc. In your mind, by making things right with her, would that make all your fears and issues go away? She is not your source of self-esteem and self-worth. You need to find what is. You are hanging everything on her. When she left and rejected you, you allowed her to take everything about you with her. Don't allow her to do that. You don't need to get her approval to feel good about yourself. You think you do right now, but you don't. Richard, I truly believe you miss her and what you had, and that's normal and healthy, that's ok, But right now, where you are at mentally, this is no longer about her. Based on your thoughts and reactions, this is about you. Something needs to get healed in you, something much deeper from your past. She may be representing a previous abondonment issue from childhood. In your mind, by making this right with her, cleans the slate from the past hurt. But it doesn't work that way. Go deeper in yourself and find out why and the root of the real pain. IT'S NOT ABOUT HER. Ok, now this that being said, i could be wrong. I don't know you personally and I don't know your past, so forgive me if I'm way off base. This is my opinion, so take it for a grain of salt if I'm wrong. But what if I am right? I am in no way trying to minimize your feelings for her, because I know you really love her and want her back. I'm just reading your posts here and i can see you in pain, and agony. Based on alot of your thoughts regarding her rejection, especially the suicidal ones, leads me to believe there is something much deeper going on here. Remember, she is NOT your source of life, she never was and never will be (even if you two are together in the end). Once you realize this and realize she is a mean person, you'll understand and you'll conclude that, You don't want to be with her. She's mean. She's heartless. You could argue the fact that, at one time she was nice and had a heart for you, but right now she is showing her true colors. She's not the cat's meow. She is unworthy of your love. God is clearing her away from you, He has a plan and something better in store for you. Tell yourself that every day. I posted index cards all over my bathroom mirror, so when i'd get ready in the morning before facing my aweful day ahead of me, I'd read these things. do the same. Remind yourself this constantly, remind yourself of the truth. Carry the cards with you. Whenever you start spirallying down, pull out your cards and fill yourself with the truth. Right now your filling your head with lies about not being worthy. Here are a few of what my cards said; I am a good person, I am special, I am loved. I may not understand what's going on right now, but I know God is working behind the scenes in my favor. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change. Make some truths for yourself too. You can do it Richard, something good has got to come out of this for you, all this pain is not in vein. Try to find the gift and blessing in all of this. Try to be grateful for the things you have in life. Be greatful you have ears to hear, yeah they may stick out some, but stop looking at the negative! Hey, Richard, you have ears, that's great!!!!! Richard you are smart, articulate, talented, and you care, which means you have a heart, you can feel. You are valuable, creative, and kind. God created you, instilled you with these gifts. You have the favor of God. But it's up to you to work this out. God has a great plan for your life, a bright future is in store for you. No obstacle in your life, large or small, is insurmountable. God's power in you is greater than the ower that's trying to hold you back. Don't let anything or anyone on earth master you. Your loved unconditionally just as you are. Keep moving forward, keep dreaming, keep pressing forward and never forget that you alread posses everything you need to live a blessed, prosperous, healthy joy-filled, abundant, long happy life! Wow prisonbreak this advice is amazing!!! I totally agree with it. Im am in a similar situation to Richard and when I read this I realised this pain isn't about my ex. Im shy, very self concious, think im ugly and worthless. I was like this before I met my ex, I was unhappy and thought id be single forever. I hated being the last one to find a bf but when I did finally find one everything was perfect. When I met my ex partner all these feeling evaporated for two years (although nothing about my appearance or personality changed) I was on top of the world and so happy and nice! Suddenly he leaves in a very cruel way and im plunged back into where I was before we got together. When I think about it I wasn't even happy in the relationship, he wasn't treating me well (well he did at the start then things changed) and when we first broke up if felt almost like a weight off my shoulders. The next day I contacted him and I found out he had a new gf. I remember the pain I felt at that instant, I couldnt breathe, my chest was in physical pain , I was shaking all over and I was boiling hot. I have stayed in a massive depression for two months unable to function or eat or sleep. I feel like I did before I met him but so much worse! Your post made me realise that prehaps I leaned on him to take all my horrible insecurites away and he was just a short term fix for my insecurities. I even realised that when I was feeling insecure or happy I would take it out on him! So how do I fix this problem to ensure it never happens again??? ( Richard sorry for stealing a bit of you thread, i just wanted to say thanks for the great advice)
Author richardcruz Posted February 20, 2008 Author Posted February 20, 2008 Because of my current (unfortunate) fragile emotional state. I almost started tearing up at work when I read your post. First I really want to thank you for taking some time out of your day to post a lengthy response in attempt to help someone whom really do not know personally. You are truly a kind, unselfish soul and may God bless you in your life in everything you do. The time you've taken to help me out will defenitely not be in vein and I'm sure you will be rewarded in life somehow. Your post was exactly what I needed and really hit home. These past few days I've been just struggling to keep myself from calling or texting her..I MEAN REALLY STRUGGLING. Its like this internal battling that i'm fighting within myself every hour of the day. Your right, I do miss her I i did l_ve her, but its the betrayal that hurts the most. They say in order to love someone you have to love yourself first. I don't not love myself right now. My self esteem is at the lowest point its ever been. My anxiety right now from all of this makes me feel nervous. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be with a person like me right now. I look in the mirror and see a completely unattractive person. I don't sleep much because of all of this and everyone always tells me I look tired. I am ashamed that I take anti depressants. It makes me feel like less of a person. I can't see all the good in my life right now. I have no self-worth. I'm embarrased of the way I acted with her and how I begged and cried for her and how she just hung up on me. This whole thing has just been tormenting me. Thats probably why I continue to seek this woman that has completely and utterly treated me like the gum under her shoe. Maybe it is some sort of validity for me like you say. I do feel that she took everything that was good in me with her. I fear that she's gonna meet someone else better than me because I didn't cut it for her. I think to myself that If i wasn't good enough for her, who will I be good enough for. I did everything in my power to make her feel loved and feel special and yet I still wasn't worth sticking around for her. Maybe it was wrong but I met her only a few months after my ex and I even told her that I was so glad that she had come into my life at that time because I was down and was just about to give up on love (my ex had cheated on me and left). The thing is they weren't just words I was saying, I really believed it. Knowing that, You can imagine how devastated I am now that she has left and treated me the way she did on her way out. She walked away with all the hope I had left in a person and in relationships in general. Its hurts deeply. I don't know why I always think to myself that she left me because of the way I was acting in the end(with the crying and begging). But she had already left me before in other instances so I really need to try to force that in my head and accept that it wasn't my fault. I went ahead and entered your quote "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change" into my cellphone. That way everytime I think about calling her, I can read that message and remind myself that this whole situation is in God's hands. She treated me with no regard to my feelings and she was just very cruel to me. I need to truly understand the severity of her actions towards me and not want her anymore.
sedgwick Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 I take antidepressants. I've taken them for 16 years. During those 16 years, I've gotten three degrees, learned to bellydance, learned to knit, written a book, been a college professor, and moved from a small town in the South to NYC. Does it make me less of a person that I needed those medications to stay out of the hospital and get all that done, or would I be more of a person if I'd refused medication and gotten none of it done because I couldn't stop crying and get out of bed? (PS -- Spelling nazi moment, everybody -- you do things in VAIN. Veins are for blood. Carry on.)
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