red9632 Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 In December my W called to say that she was having drinks after work with a co-worker who I'll call CW. About 6:30 she called and asked if I'd like to join them. Apparently she'd had too much to drink and didn't feel comfortable driving home. She has described CW as her best friend and says that she is CW's best friend. When I arrived at the bar they had both had quite a bit to drink. They had the top few buttons unbuttoned on their blouses and they were admiring and feeling of each other's boobs. While I was there they discussed a bi-sexual encounter that my W had that she claims happened before we were married. She had previously told me about it. CW asked several times "Will you have sex with me?". W didn't answer one way or another. Last Saturday W and I met CW and her BF for dinner and went out for drinks afterwards. W and CW were talking about their boss being gay and BF asked "Would you think that I was gay?". He definitely appeared gay. He said that he was only half gay and that when he was with a man he was always on the top. He then went on the say that CW (his girlfriend) was bi-curious. She chimed in "I'm not curious any more." She then said later in the evening that she and W had had sex in the office. I talked to my W about the next day and said casually "So I understand you had a sexual encounter with CW". She said "No, I don't know why she says the things that she does, probably just an active imagination." My questions are these: 1. What are the probabilities that W and CW had sex? Or should I take W's explanation that CW just made it up. 2. Is it cheating if you have sex with someone of the same sex?
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 I think there was very, very likely some sexual interaction, and yes it is cheating regardless of what gender the OP is. Think of it this way: CW has no reason to lie, and your W has every reason to. Who do you think was being truthful, that said?
maritallyconfused Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 Thats hot. You should see if you can join them...
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 If you care about your marriage, you'll put an end to whatever's going on between CW and her. It isnt right and cheating is cheating. I wonder how would she feel if you was out at a bar flirting with a female way hotter than her. Would she get jealous or condone it? I think you should end it now. And also if you aint got no kids, run from this marriage she aint the right one for you. If she wants to be married she has to remain faithful. IF she cant' it's over.
Bryanp Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 It certainly is cheating. The chances are pretty good some sexual interaction had happened. If she feels it is acceptable to cheat with another person then the chances are good she will cheat again with someone else. She has no respect for you and your marriage. Your wife is a cheater. Why would you wish to be married to someone who has so little respect for your marriage? You will only get hurt in the long run. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I think your wife is playing you for a fool.
shadowofman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Don't let these promiscuity demonizers shape your mind in their silly ways. It is only cheating if it betrayed you. Only you can label this action cheating. I would suggest that if she did do something and then lied to you, it would be cheating, but if you are just asking if sex with someone of the same sex is cheating, you are the judge of that. Damn, these people are haters!
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Don't let these promiscuity demonizers shape your mind in their silly ways. It is only cheating if it betrayed you. Only you can label this action cheating. I would suggest that if she did do something and then lied to you, it would be cheating, but if you are just asking if sex with someone of the same sex is cheating, you are the judge of that. Damn, these people are haters! Are you F-ing kidding me shadow??!?!?! Really? Imagine if a woman comes home to find her supposedly "straight" husband getting reamed out by the new england patriots. She's gonna say, Oh hey it isnt betrayal because it's a man?!?! Come on man, give me a F-ing break. Cheating is cheating, reguardless of gender! Let me guess now your gonna justify what she's doing saying it's okay to cheat as long as it's not the opposite sex it doesnt count, right? C'mon man. Cheating is cheating. Bottom line! Right now the poster is just confused but when his wife is pining away for the OW and he's stuck out there like a one pump chump, your gonna tell me that it isnt betrayal of the highest order to him?! Come on! Bottom line any man who takes pride in his marriage and is mongomous will tell you that it is cheating! it does count!
shadowofman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Cheating is anything that you think it is. If you think looking at another man is cheating, then it is. That is my point. The question was simple. Is it cheating if you have sex with someone of the same sex? My answer is just as simple. If you think it is, then it is. If you think it's not, then it's not. So Chrome! If you came home and your wife was eating out some hot chick in your bed, would you call it cheating?
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Cheating is anything that you think it is. If you think looking at another man is cheating, then it is. That is my point. The question was simple. Is it cheating if you have sex with someone of the same sex? My answer is just as simple. If you think it is, then it is. If you think it's not, then it's not. So Chrome! If you came home and your wife was eating out some hot chick in your bed, would you call it cheating? Hell yeah that's cheating, physically and emotionally loving someone of either oppostie and or same gender when your bound with someone else is cheating. If I ever came home and saw that the OW better start running because when I catch her I'm gonna pound her face into the damn pavement!!! Wanna be in a man's position then be prepared to fight like one too. lol.
shadowofman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I took you for the type that would want to join in. Please excuse my presumption. Do you get my point though?
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I took you for the type that would want to join in. Please excuse my presumption. Do you get my point though? I get it, but who knows. I might want to kill them, I might join in but betrayal is betrayal. and I dont think I can ever forget it. I might not ever trust her. If she lied to me about that, what else is she lying about? If the cornerstone of the relationship is trust, how can I trust her. and without trust what do we have?
shadowofman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 My example was a badly framed scenario. In it, there was no lie, just a surprise two for one deal when you got home. I fully agree that if the OPers W did have sex, then it would be cheating, only because she said nothing happened. It was the lie that is the key in this situation. I only wanted to comment on the second question. It can only be answered by you, red. Don't let anyone answer for you.
shadowofman Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 And for that matter, why is everyone assuming that she is lying. CW made the claim about the sex. For all we know, CW could have been assuming that she was dealing with red blooded men that like the idea of two women together. #1 male fantasy people. She was trying to instigate a good time. These ladies sound hot, and I want to shoot my face off for not being this guy. The other dude is bi as well. Is there a suicide emocon? red, is there any reason that the wife has given for you not to trust her, besides being friends with CW?
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I'm not sure if 'friends' is the right word. CW made it clear she wanted sex, and they felt each other up. Then CW made it clear that sex was involved. I have a few female friends, and fondling each other's boobs while talking about wanting to have sex is not something I do with them. I'm not sure why anyone would trust two people in such a situation to be 'just friends' or to believe sex didn't happen when one of them made it clear that it did. I used to date women, and I wouldn't cross that physical/sexual line with a woman I was just friends with. If I did, then it was using 'friends' as a way to get in their pants.
Author red9632 Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 red, is there any reason that the wife has given for you not to trust her, besides being friends with CW? Yes. For over 4 years she's been having what she thought was a secret relationship with a man that she claims is just a friend. I found out by spying on her email. I have no proof that she did anything other than emailing him and meeting him for drinks. However I think that she was planning to divorce me last year but dropped the plans because he said he was staying with his wife for financial reasons. She says that I misinterpreted what was said in the emails and that I am completely wrong. I do know that she lied to me about meeting him and only admitted it when she knew that I had the proof. I have posted about it here, however I changed my username before starting this thread because I ignored the advice everyone gave me last time which was to divorce her. In December she promised to have no further contact with him. As far as I know she has had no contact with him since the middle of December. The problem is that I have no proof that she was lying about the OM being only a friend, and no proof that she was lying about having sex with the CW.
Owl Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Why do you need "proof" of anything more? All you need is enough information to make up your mind on a course of action. It seems to me that you've got plenty of information to do that already.
Enchantica Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 I agree with Shadowofman. It is only cheating if it is a betrayal to you. Do you feel that if she did have sex with this woman, it would be cheating? Does it make you feel betrayed? I would say that unless there is some way to prove that your wife had sex with CW then you can't do much else at the moment. Do you trust your wife? Has she ever broken trust before? Just to add: my bf is fine with me feeling up other women and kissing them, and he likes to watch. One of my exes would probably have been fine with me having sex with another woman, but my current bf feels that's too far. It's different for everyone. I'm new here btw *waves*
shadowofman Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Hi Enchantica. I just think CW was trying to perk his interest, likes the attention, actually wants to party, whatever. I've seen tons of drunk girls joking and playing with each others chests. It is pretty safe to assume that you'll give a guy an erection for acting like that.
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Yeah but is it just play acting, or actually malicious intent? Hmmmmmmm?
shadowofman Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Whatever the story, I seriously doubt CW was maliciously trying to make him jealous.
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Whatever the story, I seriously doubt CW was maliciously trying to make him jealous. I know, and plus she has cheated on him with a man before so it's not such a far stretch to see that she can cheat on him again. I mean come on. Seriously do are we blind to not see this chick has no remorse or understanding of her husband. She treats him like garbage. To the poster why are you putting up with this nonsense and dont say you love her!
shadowofman Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 It's true she has cheated in the past, but is there any reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt that CW made this story up?
Author red9632 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Posted February 21, 2008 It's true she has cheated in the past, but is there any reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt that CW made this story up? I think I must be extremely stupid because I always want to give her the benefit of the doubt. I gave her the benefit of the doubt when I thought she was having an affair with a man that she had once described to me as "the love of my life that got away." I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt now. Perhaps the story about having sex in the office was made up. But I keep coming back to the fact that her BF said she was bi-curious and she chimed in "I'm not curious any more". That was while we were eating and she hadn't had anything to drink at the time. That indicates to me that had recently had a bi-experience, and that she had gone from being bi-curious to bi. Perhaps I'm interpreting it wrong. It was later after several drinks that she said that she had had sex with my W in the office, and I would completely disregard that as untrue if it hadn't for the "Im' not curious anymore" statement. My biggest problem is trust. I don't trust my W and haven't for quite some time. She says that it's just me -- the problem is all in my head and that I'm completely wrong about both the OM and the CW. If only I knew for sure.
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 She says that it's just me -- the problem is all in my head and that I'm completely wrong about both the OM and the CW. Its called gaslighting. The number one emotional weapon in a cheating spouse's arsenal. The only people who believe it are the ones who want to. Unfortunately you want to believe her, so she will simply continue to do what she is doing knowing that she can get away with it. It is only when you stop believing her, and give her some serious consequences for her actions that she will consider stopping. Cheaters don't stop cheating for altruistic reasons. The pain of another person won't stop them from continuing. They only quit when faced with a very real loss if they don't. Avoidance of punishment rather than stopping because it is wrong. If you don't offer a real consequence and threaten her with a very real loss, she won't have any reason to stop.
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