OWoman Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's not every day I post on the Infidelity forum, or ask input from BWs, so you're probably wondering what's up. Thanks to the intervention of a counsellor, MM's W has finally gotten her head around the realisation that there IS someone else. And that realisation has blown her mind. From the line of interrogation though it seems she's more concerned about who else knows, than about the "infidelity" itself. When the counsellor got her to see that everything she was describing all pointed toward there being an OW, it seemed she was more freaked by looking like a fool than by her H having mislaid his manbits in some other woman. For BS whose CS had a LTR with an OW or OM, particularly where you may have been the last to know - what was more upsetting to you? The A itself, or the suspicion that others knew but kept you in the dark? Being betrayed, or being a fool? And when she asks who else knows, is she likely wanting to know the truth (that everyone knows but her, including the kids) or is she wanting to be reassured that she can still stage-manage her way out of this? Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 WOW, There or too many facets to the things she will face to even begin to name. These realizations will be a process for her and believe me shame will be the easiest pill for her to swallow. Unfortunately, she will deal with most all of them before she realizes that the shame doesn't belong to her. I also don't know that the question was asked because of shame more than wanting to know who else might have been involved in her betrayal. Betrayal is by far the most difficult. When going through the grieving process, betrayal adds an even more difficult element to deal with. God help this woman when she finds out that not only has her marriage been a lie, but that her family and friends wanted her to believe in something that wasn't true as well. I can tell you that a few people who I know of and know that they are cheated on, I don't feel deserve shame. To someone removed from the situation, its only the participating parties that deserve the shame. She will believe that she deserved this if everyone in her life was party to it. There is only so much that the mind can deal with at one time, only so much realization. I know in my own case that I obviously blocked things daily that my conscience mind couldn't handle. I know this because everytime I drifted off to sleep my subconscience would bring them up and I would wake up drenched with my heart pounding. Finding out that not only has your life been a lie, but that the people you knew have aided in that is going to effect her more than you can ever imagine. I seriously hope that he is willing to pay for her years of therapy, because she will question everything she has ever believed. Yes, shame is an undeserved consequence of her situation, but it is by far the least she will have to deal with. I wouldn't judge any reaction she has because certainly they are called for though I know it would be easier on everyone if she just fell off the face of the earth and I imagine she'll come to that realization too. Betrayal by a spouse is one thing, knowing a that few others know is another but to have th epeople in your life believe that one persons happiness is worthy of distorting your reality is beyond my comprehension. If I found that my children or close friends were party to that, I would never speak to them again. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 This thread surprises me, OW. You have not previously expressed much of a concern about the wellbeing of your MM's W before now. Why the change in stance? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I don't understand why your MM just hasn't come clean and told her truth. Why the big secret? That was his wife who carried his children so I don't understand why he hasn't had the respect to just tell her the truth. Why everyone knows and she doesn't. I feel for her, and I'm sure she feels like everyone around her thinks she's the biggest fool for being the last one to find out what's really been going on. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 This thread surprises me, OW. You have not previously expressed much of a concern about the wellbeing of your MM's W before now. Why the change in stance? I didn't take it as concern OB. My read on it was.... look, see, all she cares about it looking like a fool, not that her husband is betraying her. I took it more as a justification, could be wrong... (definately wouldn't be the first time!!!!) Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 this is hard.. I would say that everything would be hard. I've never been cheated on.. but I'm trying to put myself in her shoes.. The betrayal would be worst IMO.. the shame... she has nothing to be ashamed of .. really... unless she was a mean witch... That everyone knows except me... I think that would be the worst part... that my children, my friends knew and never 'hinted' me about it.. that would be betrayal BUT on the other hand, you can't blame the children and friends.. it was not their 'place' to say anything.. They probably felt bad for her. It always depend on the situation, each case is different.. but in general, I think the betrayal would be worst... and worsest if I knew I was a good wife, giving him plenty of sex, good mother, etc... But that's me.. I know everyone will have a different opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 A man runs into an alien and asks him: -What are those antennas you have in your head for? One is to know about everything that goes on on earth. -And the other one? The other one is to know everything the goes on in the moon. -The moon?! Wow, here on earth the ones that have those are the last ones to know. Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 For BS whose CS had a LTR with an OW or OM, particularly where you may have been the last to know - what was more upsetting to you? The A itself, or the suspicion that others knew but kept you in the dark? Being betrayed, or being a fool? Neither of the ex's affairs that I knew about lasted long. The first I forgave and went on from there. The second time I divorced her. She'd left and filed for separation, I immediately counter-filed for divorce upon discovery of her infidelity. She'd met him seven months before we separated. The affairs themselves were more upsetting to me, both times, than who may or may not have known about them. What others thought had no direct impact on the marriage. Besides, in the end, the ex was the fool! Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I didn't take it as concern OB. My read on it was.... look, see, all she cares about it looking like a fool, not that her husband is betraying her. I took it more as a justification. That's exactly how it sounded to me as well. It is typical that the OW imputes the WORST motives to the BW and the BEST motives to the MM - either in the absence of supporting evidence, or even in the FACE of it. Thus proving that OW ARE the ultimate romantics..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 I don't understand why your MM just hasn't come clean and told her truth. Why the big secret? That was his wife who carried his children so I don't understand why he hasn't had the respect to just tell her the truth. Why everyone knows and she doesn't. I feel for her, and I'm sure she feels like everyone around her thinks she's the biggest fool for being the last one to find out what's really been going on. He did WWIU - she didn't believe him, and thought he was just saying that to force her back into counselling, which she was resisting. On the others - yes, this is what is surprising to me about her response. I would have expected anger and hurt at the betrayal, yet she seems focused on who knows, and who might know, rather than on the betrayal itself. Perhaps it's an initial shocked response and more will follow, I don't know. Perhaps it's because she's shrugged off the possibility before, despite being told by MM and maybe others, that now she's feeling that aspect more. Perhaps I'm being silly trying to understand what can't be a rational process, but I suppose trying to understand it would help me to anticipate it as it unfolds, to know what's going on so that the kids can be protected as far as possible from the worst of it. Already what they've had to witness has not been pleasant, and they don't deserve that. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 You know how they say the stages of grief are not linear, but cyclical? Meaning, you don't go through one stage and move on to another and the next until you're done grieving, but instead, you cycle through various stages over and over until eventually you are better. I think it's the same with betrayal. And she's currently in the stage where she's really feeling the betrayal. I think her concern about who knows is an extension of feeling betrayed - if all those people knew and didn't tell her, they also betrayed her, especially her children. That will hit her hard and it has nothing to do with keeping up appearances and everything to do with knowing that everyone in her life colluded with her husband. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Maybe.. she wasn't that much 'in love' with him anymore.. so it's not the betrayal that bothers her (because maybe she couldn't care less) and that would explain why she was more piss8ed at the fact that everyone around her knew it but her. Link to post Share on other sites
Arch Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 lol, what does she have to be ashamed about? Seriously her husband is the one who can't keep his dick in his pants and lacks self control. If anyone should be "ashamed" it should be her husband, not her. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 He did WWIU - she didn't believe him, and thought he was just saying that to force her back into counselling, which she was resisting. So, why not all of you just meet up. Get it over with. She's going through a mental hell I guess, and I don't understand why he is just divorcing and getting on with his life with you. OW, I am sorry, can't remember your exact situation, but is he living with you or still living at home? Already what they've had to witness has not been pleasant, and they don't deserve that. Anyway, alot of this falls on him and how he's handled it. He could have been honest from day one and instead of yapping to everyone else about you and him, he should have come clean with her to begin with. He didn't and now there are consquences. Link to post Share on other sites
smartgirl Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 He did WWIU - she didn't believe him, and thought he was just saying that to force her back into counselling, which she was resisting. On the others - yes, this is what is surprising to me about her response. I would have expected anger and hurt at the betrayal, yet she seems focused on who knows, and who might know, rather than on the betrayal itself. Perhaps it's an initial shocked response and more will follow, I don't know. Perhaps it's because she's shrugged off the possibility before, despite being told by MM and maybe others, that now she's feeling that aspect more. Perhaps I'm being silly trying to understand what can't be a rational process, but I suppose trying to understand it would help me to anticipate it as it unfolds, to know what's going on so that the kids can be protected as far as possible from the worst of it. Already what they've had to witness has not been pleasant, and they don't deserve that. I would be very wary of reading too much into information relayed by MM. Even if a person attempts to relay the info accurately, they can't really escape their own biases or relay the non-verbal stuff. Plus, you don't know her. Someone who knows her well and actually cares about her, might better understand what her reaction meant. The betrayal is the worst. But focusing on who knows is understandable because it helps to give you an idea of the scope of what you have to deal with. Are you dealing with a private matter between spouses or do you also have to contend with a broader public in some way. Being betrayed by your H is horrible, but there are many aspects of an affair that are personal to the WS and don't have that much to do with the W. Knowing that he allowed you to be observed by friends or others who knew, shows a gross lack of respect for the W and for her privacy that expands the level of betrayal. If he doesn't want to be married anymore, then be honest and leave. But publicly humiliating a woman he swore to love and who is the mother of his children is an act of petty, passive-aggressive anger. He not only feels he gets back at her (be it behind her back as cowards do) but he mistakenly believes that somehow he appears to others to be the stronger and more desirable person in the relationship. Your MM's wife may know that he has these kinds of tendencies. You know, like the man who makes "jokes" about some perceived flaw his wife has in front of other people and then tells her she has no sense of humor if she gets upset. Exposing your spouse to the scrutiny of others is a completely hostile act that is somewhat separate in my mind from the affair itself. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 You know how they say the stages of grief are not linear, but cyclical? Meaning, you don't go through one stage and move on to another and the next until you're done grieving, but instead, you cycle through various stages over and over until eventually you are better. I was thinking the exact same thing. It sounds like it is just one phase of all the emotions she is going to go through, the initial emotion is shock and so she is playing it out via her line of questioning, but it will change once the reality sinks in. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 so that the kids can be protected as far as possible from the worst of it. Already what they've had to witness has not been pleasant, and they don't deserve that. If you're so concerned about the kids OWoman, why don't you back off, stop cheating with your MM and see if Mom and Dad can repair their marriage ? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Mickle Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's not every day I post on the Infidelity forum, or ask input from BWs, so you're probably wondering what's up. What the hell is MM's W ,OW,I presume other Woman ,her H Husband mislaid his manbits in some other woman. For BS whose CS had a LTR with an OW or OM, ???????????? So So hard to understand, It may be a Sad story but no one will know Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 For BS whose CS had a LTR with an OW or OM, BS = betrayed spouse CS= cheating spouse LTR = Long term relationship OW = Other woman OM = Other man Link to post Share on other sites
inshock Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I think finding out that my husband has had his g/f for over 7 years was the most painful thing I ever felt.But when I found out that his family not only knew but were active in the affair was just as bad.I not only had lost my husband and my validation as a wife,I lost my sister in laws,my mother in law,the whole family.What could I have done to them for them to participate in something this awful? I have been with this man for 27 years,22 legally married.He asked them to help him and they did because he was a brother.....an excuse I will never accept.So now I sit and wonder if EVERY word that was spoken to me was a lie,was every hug,forced? Was every gift just given because they HAD to? You lose your validation as a person. I know that my husband lied,cheated and did all of that and for some reason I can accept it,but why them? Did they fall out of love with me too?My first instinct was to hide,hide hide,as if i had done something wrong. Yes I am in therapy with a wonderful therapist who is helping me,but betrayal by anyone is more devastating then a death.You may expect it to be done by a spouse but by family,friends and others? Its just so hard to understand or accept.You doubt everything and everyone.Mostly yourself. And yes i think the other woman is gloating and has no real feeling for this woman at all.....Just an opinion from someone going through it right now.... Smart Girl your response is exactly right on.All true. Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedMM Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I think the answer is pretty obvious- It's the A that causes the pain. Other folks getting involved just add insult to injury. Sounds like the BW is also in denial. That doesn't help, only hits harder when it hits. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 From the line of interrogation though it seems she's more concerned about who else knows, than about the "infidelity" itself. When the counsellor got her to see that everything she was describing all pointed toward there being an OW, it seemed she was more freaked by looking like a fool than by her H having mislaid his manbits in some other woman. How do you know so much about what went on in her MC session ? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
smartgirl Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yes, damn good question - how does she know what went on in the MC? Because her H continues to betray her by talking about what should be private counselling sessions. OW - you sound very critical of this woman because she "refused" her H's request to go into counselling. Maybe she said counselling will do no good as long as you continue to see OW, which makes perfect sense to me. Your MM is a lobbiest. He is lobbying you and others to get you to see him as trying to fix his marriage and to see her as the bad person for refusing to go to MC. This sounds like a highly manipulative person, far less interested in his wife's well being and the well being of their marriage than he is in having people believe that when he finally walks out on her that "he did all he could." What a guy. If he really cared about her, the marriage and his kids he wouldn't be seeing you anymore - he would be there in body, mind and soul. Link to post Share on other sites
Author OWoman Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yes, damn good question - how does she know what went on in the MC? Because her H continues to betray her by talking about what should be private counselling sessions. OW - you sound very critical of this woman because she "refused" her H's request to go into counselling. Maybe she said counselling will do no good as long as you continue to see OW, which makes perfect sense to me. Your MM is a lobbiest. He is lobbying you and others to get you to see him as trying to fix his marriage and to see her as the bad person for refusing to go to MC. This sounds like a highly manipulative person, far less interested in his wife's well being and the well being of their marriage than he is in having people believe that when he finally walks out on her that "he did all he could." What a guy. If he really cared about her, the marriage and his kids he wouldn't be seeing you anymore - he would be there in body, mind and soul. SG - it was an abusive M. MM and his W went for MC long before the A, but when the counsellor told her her behaviour was abusive, she walked out of counselling and refused to go back. MM persisted with IC, and tried to get W to go to IC if not MC. She refused all these years, insisting the problems were with him, with her colleagues (when she was asked to leave at work for her abusive behaviour there) and with family when they told her she was no longer welcome because of her behaviour. She is abusive even to strangers - shop assistants, plumbers, receptionists at the doctors. This is common cause among their friends and colleagues, who've for years been advising him to leave her. MM left her. The kids chose to be with him, but do spend some time with her. She thought the leaving was a trick to force her to go back to counselling. MM told her there was "someone else". She refused to believe it, but did eventually go to IC. It was after her first session that this happened. I am surmising what went on in the session from the interaction she had with MM afterward. Neither he nor I were present during her session, as it was IC. He has left the M. He is not going back - the counselling was not intended for that. W refused to join MM and the kids in family counselling around the split, and next steps, this is just her IC. MM is also in IC alongside the family counselling. The counselling was to make the split easier for the kids, and to make sure they had the space to raise their concerns, their hopes and fears, so that the final D settlement was built around their needs rather than the parents' battles. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang Sally Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Exposing your spouse to the scrutiny of others is a completely hostile act that is somewhat separate in my mind from the affair itself. Wow, Smartgirl. What a great point. I think that she is likely in "shock," if you will, now working to accept this new reality. Hard to fathom all the emotions she will go through and in what order. What a messy situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts