rocks08 Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Have been following the threads on "How MM feels..." and I have a fundamental question here: Doesn't the MM EVER FEEL GUILTY about cheating his wife? In my A, he refused to even accept it was cheating... He always believed it was love... My guilt drove me to end it... What's going on here? Is it a defense on his part??
directx Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 you know, i just think some guys feel no guilt at all about cheating. And I totally don't understand that. Maybe they treat the actual act of sex the same way they treat looking at porn. but im totally with you on this. the guilt would drive me nuts
Author rocks08 Posted February 17, 2008 Author Posted February 17, 2008 you know, i just think some guys feel no guilt at all about cheating. And I totally don't understand that. Maybe they treat the actual act of sex the same way they treat looking at porn. but im totally with you on this. the guilt would drive me nuts Makes it harder for me to understand... we didn't even HAVE sex... just a lot of the physicality, phone conversations and stuff... now could THAT be enough for a guy? Could he be as emotionally needy as I was to let it stay that way???
OWoman Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Doesn't the MM EVER FEEL GUILTY about cheating his wife? My MM's W told him she didn't care if he was faithful, so long as he was loyal to her. She'd also set the tone right at the outset (she was married to someone else and took him as an -initially unknowing - OM and messed both of them around for ages before chucking her M and taking up with him) so really didn't have any moral high ground on that one. But yes, he's a one-woman-man and so keeping up the charade of being married while not having sex with her, not socialising with her, not sharing any meaningful part of his life with her but only with the kids did get to him, so he left. I think there are many rationalisations that go on. Other MMs I've been with have felt that the A was what kept the M alive - that were it not for getting their needs met on the side, they'd have walked from the M long ago, so no guilt there.
st951 Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 I think that many attractive men have reduced empathy and an inflated sense of entitlement and this allows them to justify their bad behavior. Another big problem is that women (collectively) teach them that it's ok: if their wives look the other way or otherwise put up with it, if they have no shortage of potentially available partners outside the marriage, etc. they will do it because they can.
OpenBook Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 I think that many attractive men have reduced empathy and an inflated sense of entitlement and this allows them to justify their bad behavior. Another big problem is that women (collectively) teach them that it's ok: if their wives look the other way or otherwise put up with it, if they have no shortage of potentially available partners outside the marriage, etc. they will do it because they can. I couldn't agree more. The odd thing is, I don't blame them. The whole thing makes me sad, and sometimes I get angry thinking about the suffering of the other parties in their lives. But bottom line... they're human. Just like everybody else who's reaching out for a little happiness, however they can get it.
LadyDi Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 I'm not a man, but from what I've heard them talk about regarding these matters is it is just something "fun" on the side. They're having a good time so they don't feel bad about it. Of course they feel rotten if they get caught, but until then...no remorse while its going on. Then again, my polling pool of men are a little off the beaten path....so maybe "most men" don't feel that way.
Can'tGiveUp Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Have been following the threads on "How MM feels..." and I have a fundamental question here: Doesn't the MM EVER FEEL GUILTY about cheating his wife? In my A, he refused to even accept it was cheating... He always believed it was love... My guilt drove me to end it... What's going on here? Is it a defense on his part?? Well, I know that my MM feels guilty. So much so that we ended it the first time because of that. We recently started up again and I haven't yet asked him how he is handling it this time. I find it interesting that you mention yours felt no guilt because it was love? Our A is definitely based on love, but I don't believe that love necessarily eradicates the guilt factor. I guess it may be a defense mechanism. Trying to ease the guilt. However, that suggests that the guilty feelings are present and he is trying to bury them. Another part of the male ability to compartamentalize perhaps? It might also be more related to the type of cheater and A. As in, perhaps the serial cheater is more capable of burying the guilt feelings because he has no intentions of leaving vs. the one-time cheater who is struggling with the decision of staying (for whatever reason) or leaving the M.
norajane Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Makes it harder for me to understand... we didn't even HAVE sex... just a lot of the physicality, phone conversations and stuff... now could THAT be enough for a guy? Could he be as emotionally needy as I was to let it stay that way??? If you never had sex, that makes it MUCH easier for him not to feel guilty. He doesn't think it's cheating if he's not having sex with someone other than his wife. He think of it as flirting, not an emotional affair.
InvisibleGirl Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 The furthest the physical part of our relationship has gone is oral sex. I think he thinks that keeps him virtuous or something. He has told me he feels guilty but maintains that he wants to keep me in his life because of our friendship. He shed tears last week when we were trying to figure out where things are going with us and said how hard it is because he has to live a double life. He started crying when he told me that his kids had just told him on the phone that he's the best Dad in the world.
Daphne Crane Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Have been following the threads on "How MM feels..." and I have a fundamental question here: Doesn't the MM EVER FEEL GUILTY about cheating his wife? In my A, he refused to even accept it was cheating... He always believed it was love... In my A, he also refuse to even accept this is cheating. I don't know if its because we do have a past. He has told me several times, he has always loved me and that will never change. I've asked him several times about feeling guilty about what we are doing. He said the only time he felt guilt was the first night we slept together (this 2nd time around). He thought he pressured me into doing something I didn't want to do. I told him, I knew what I was doing that night .....just like I knew what I was doing the night a guy put a 9mm to head because he wanted some of my loving and I told him NO (the only way you will get some is, if you shoot me). But I did feel a little guilty because I listened and followed to my heart instead of doing what was right.
norajane Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 In my A, he also refuse to even accept this is cheating. I don't know if its because we do have a past. He has told me several times, he has always loved me and that will never change. I've asked him several times about feeling guilty about what we are doing. He said the only time he felt guilt was the first night we slept together (this 2nd time around). He thought he pressured me into doing something I didn't want to do. That sounds like he was talking about guilty in relation to what he was doing to YOU, not to his wife.
Meaplus3 Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 If you never had sex, that makes it MUCH easier for him not to feel guilty. He doesn't think it's cheating if he's not having sex with someone other than his wife. He think of it as flirting, not an emotional affair. This is so very true! AP:)
Gwyneth Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 I know many men whom have cheated on their wives who have later on said they felt guilty--but this was Years later. The MM I was with clearly has no guilt that he's at least admitting. Well, I can't say that because he's so gosh darn indecisive--one minute he's guilty, the next he says he doesn't care. Which is it then?????? He also has the same issues with every thing in his life--"Um, should I or not wear underwear today," is how he lives his life. I guess while in the affair they are too proud to admit they are doing wrong and are carrying guilt, but years later are more likely to admit they were guilty and sorry for what they did. I also think this varies person to person. Some people just live to cheat--others have more values and loyalty to the person they committed to spend the rest of their life with. One of the now divorced men whom have said they are now guilty for cheating on one of their spouses also said that they felt they weren't meant to be married to that person anyway--but also said that cheating on them was also wrong mostly because they had a child.
GreenEyedLady Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 I think they do feel guilt...Especially when they see that they've hurt someone...
Author rocks08 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Posted February 18, 2008 But I did feel a little guilty because I listened and followed to my heart instead of doing what was right. Yup.... I felt that way too all the time that I kept going back.... Also believe that guilt comes more easily to some people than others. I've been noticing this increasingly as I deal with my own self-esteem issues. I broke away from MM when he's going through a really horrible phase in his career, and somehow believe I'm responsible for adding to his pain... Don't know whether there's a RIGHT TIME to break away, whether this guilt is justified.... Any ideas on that?
Meaplus3 Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 Yup.... I felt that way too all the time that I kept going back.... Also believe that guilt comes more easily to some people than others. I've been noticing this increasingly as I deal with my own self-esteem issues. I broke away from MM when he's going through a really horrible phase in his career, and somehow believe I'm responsible for adding to his pain... Don't know whether there's a RIGHT TIME to break away, whether this guilt is justified.... Any ideas on that? Rock, You should not be concearned with this mm's career trouble's that's his issue not your's. If you keep beign worried about his feeling's.. than it's going to take you some much longer to move forward. Now's the time to think about you.what you need to do to let go of this mm. AP:)
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 Its a mixed bag. Some feel guilty, others don't. It depends on how well (or not) they justify to themselves what they are doing .
Author rocks08 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Posted February 18, 2008 Rock, You should not be concearned with this mm's career trouble's that's his issue not your's. If you keep beign worried about his feeling's.. than it's going to take you some much longer to move forward. Now's the time to think about you.what you need to do to let go of this mm. AP:) Thanks, AP.... Will keep the 'YOU' in mind each time I veer away and find myself slipping....
nadiaj2727 Posted February 18, 2008 Posted February 18, 2008 Its a mixed bag. Some feel guilty, others don't. It depends on how well (or not) they justify to themselves what they are doing . This rings true to me. My xMM had no guilt, only excuses. He wasn't married "in his mind", so he wasn't cheating. He was separated, so he wasn't cheating. (Ummm he couldn't tell his wife he was seeing someone else, and he kept me a secret. Yet when I pointed this out to him, it STILL wasn't cheating, just not wanting to "rub it in her face.") I finally felt all the guilt FOR him -- I am a woman and I was appalled at what I was doing to another woman. I saw that he didn't feel guilty for lying to her so I doubted he felt guilty for lying to me, which I began to realize he was obviously doing. I was like "ewww, he brought me down to his level, and I let him." I felt disgustingly guilty with myself. I could no longer look myself in the mirror and love the character peering out from within. I decided it was time to start doing the right thing, which necessarily meant kicking xMM to the curb because he didn't know the right thing to do from a tuna sandwich. And Rocks08 I hear you about feeling guilty for what you do to HIM. I think they feel such a sense of entitlement that they only think about how other peoples' actions affect them, NOT at all about how their actions affect other people. Some of them are controlling narcissists and no matter what you give them or do for them, it's not enough. I broke off an engagement, moved out of the house I had shared with my fiance, spent day and night with my xMM but it still wasn't enough. He made me feel guilty for going out with my girl friends (when HE and the fact that he was still married [maybe not "in his head" but legally lol] was the reason he couldn't come out with us) and even made me feel guilty for going to an out-of-state wedding without him (again, HE is the reason he couldn't be my date...) There is just no winning with some MM. I say look out for yourself and for other women. MM is by definition cheating and lying every day he's with you... I understand what you're saying, one day you just get tired of it, and it's time to do the right thing. Kudos for you for thinking about this. Good luck.
Author rocks08 Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 There is just no winning with some MM. I say look out for yourself and for other women. MM is by definition cheating and lying every day he's with you... I understand what you're saying, one day you just get tired of it, and it's time to do the right thing. Kudos for you for thinking about this. Good luck. nadiaj2727, thanks, you're a gem... Just today, i was reading: It's impossible to forsake your own spiritual development in favour of others. The truth's hit me so hard this time (it did, earlier too, but I never had enough courage to stick with it...), that I've pushed myself out of MM's range... I know he's smarting within, feeling used, dumped and all of that, but the way I now look at it is, this is best for the spiritual development of BOTH of us.... Hopefully, I can stick with the truth this time, and someday, he too will hopefully see it like I did... Thanks for being there
nadiaj2727 Posted February 20, 2008 Posted February 20, 2008 You are welcome. Feel free to PM me any time (like, when you feel like contacting xMM)! You have come so far, I am very proud of you. I was in your shoes at one time. (You are throwing those dirty smelly old shoes away like I did. Good for you!) Stay strong girl. ~Nadia
Daphne Crane Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 (edited) Yup.... I felt that way too all the time that I kept going back.... Also believe that guilt comes more easily to some people than others. I've been noticing this increasingly as I deal with my own self-esteem issues. I broke away from MM when he's going through a really horrible phase in his career, and somehow believe I'm responsible for adding to his pain... Don't know whether there's a RIGHT TIME to break away, whether this guilt is justified.... Any ideas on that? I've been thinking more and more each day about breaking away from my MM. He also was going through a difficult time with his career and I decided to be there for him for emotional support. I didn't want to kick him to hard while he was down, I decided to wait until he got back up and then kick the crap out of him. He keeps asking me, why are you trying to push me away. I told him, even though, we use to date and we have all these feelings for each other, I should have never put myself in this situation. But his time is about UP because I'm tired. Edited February 21, 2008 by Daphne Crane
Author rocks08 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Posted February 21, 2008 He keeps asking me, why are you trying to push me away. I told him, even though, we use to date and we have all these feelings for each other, I should have never put myself in this situation. But his time is about UP because I'm tired. Those were the words he used with me too. And each time, he'd say that very plaintively, and I'd go all gooey. And yes, I got sick of the whole damn thing too. Keep us posted here on how it goes -- you've got one immediate precedent!
Lizzie60 Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 I would say that some do and some don't... If they do..they will think of something to justify their cheating... If they don't they probably think it's self-defense.. lol Some do..but they are just too addicted to the OW..
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