akrowergirl Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 I was alone and sad last night and found this web site - you people are so amazing and supportive - It may be just what I need. So my story is this - I fell in love with a MM 18 months ago - we had been friends for 3 years. Same old story - unhappy marriage, didn't realize it until he spent time with me, said he was going to leave and didn't, moved out for a week last summer but started going back home because of the kids... He finally moved out last November and said we could start seeing each other as soon as the paper work is filed. The paper work is filled out but she has to see a movie about custody before it can be filed. Up until November the A was emotional but since he moved out things have gotten physical during lunch breaks and right after work - but never out in the open, most of our collegues know and are supportive. In the mean time he is living on his best friends couch. She is living in the house with the kids - he pays all the bills and has not taken a step towards getting his own place or getting her a place(they have agreed he will get the house). He won't push her to see the movie because right now they are getting along. I understood at first but it took him 15 months to leave and now we are in the third month of waiting for the next step. I have often been accused of moving faster than other people - am I needing him to move to fast? Should I wait and let him take the time he needs to work through this on his own? I work with him everyday - that is the hardest part. Everyone in our life knows how we feel about each other except his wife. He has told his parents and cousins and best friends and all of my family knows - but no one talks about it or acknowleges it. I have been waiting for him to be comfortable to make things public. I don't understand why we can't start dating since everyone except his wife knows - I think he is to scared to take the step of making it public. Should I just start talking about it? Should I keep waiting for him? Should I tell his wife? His wife thought we were seeing each other years ago - before it even occured to either of us. My friends and family love me but think I am crazy to keep waiting. Reading the posts here it seems like I am further along then most people- I guess I feel like everything has always been at his speed and his comfort - I wonder if it is selfish of me to say - "look, I have waited and supported and now it is my turn to say what I need" - and then expect him to do it?
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Should I wait and let him take the time he needs to work through this on his own? Yes. Severing the family ties and rearranging them is hard. Harder still when you have someone trying to make you do it on a deadline. "look, I have waited and supported and now it is my turn to say what I need" You can do that, but I wouldn't make it an ultimatum or anything. If you do, you won't get far with it. Let him know how you feel, and then back way off and see what he does.
Trimmer Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Should I just start talking about it? .... Should I tell his wife? Given the outcome it sounds like you are hoping for, I can't see this as being a helpful step. It will certainly get things moving along... in the same way as a bomb gets pieces of a building "moving along." Remodeling requires some demolition, but not like that. Reading the posts here it seems like I am further along then most people- I guess I feel like everything has always been at his speed and his comfort - I wonder if it is selfish of me to say - "look, I have waited and supported and now it is my turn to say what I need" - and then expect him to do it? I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to address your needs; you don't want to be a doormat, especially if you see this as a developing pattern in the relationship. But you need to consider how invested you are in a particular outcome. If your priority is to be a strong, confident person who can stand up for your needs, then I say "more power to you; lay it on the line", but there exists a possibility that if you do that, the outcome may not be what you hope for. On the other hand, if your priority is to achieve a specific outcome that you desire, to implement a vision, then you will want to chart a course that you believe has the best chance of getting you there, and part of that plan may require subsuming your own needs temporarily. I don't think either course is necessarily "better" - you need to decide whether standing up for your needs as an individual takes priority over attempting to guarantee the outcome you desire. It's a choice to be made. Whichever of those you choose, it's also a useful skill to be able to consider things from your (potential) partner's perspective, and if you do that, you will realize that he has a certain set of needs, too. Here's the rub: his needs and your needs may not line up in exact complement to each other. He's juggling breaking up his family and the impact it will have on his wife, kids, maybe extended family, friends, etc., and he probably feels a need or obligation to do that in a way that minimizes the impact on those constituencies. He may even feel some obligation not to break things up. These are the "needs" he is balancing with and against whatever desire he has to be with you, and he may either think that time will make things easier (whether or not that is actually true) or he may find himself essentially paralyzed, among many rocks and hard places. And so, it's not really possible to look at him and say: "He wants to be with me, it's simple, what's the holdup?" because while your desire to be with him is fairly focused, his desire to be with you is accompained by many more layers that make it more complex. I'm not judging right or wrong, good or bad. I'm just saying, realize that he has a set of needs that he is working on, at the same time as you are attending to yours. It is completely understandable that each would attend to his or her own needs in a way that will give the best perceived benefit in the long term. The thing is, until his needs and your needs can be brought into line - at least reconciled - you may find that he is not attending to your needs as fully as you might wish. And I will again opine that you inserting yourself into his process (as in "telling his wife" or starting to talk freely and publicly about your relationship) is not likely to be a positive influence, but again, that depends on what you are trying to achieve, what you are willing to live with, etc. Everyone in our life knows how we feel about each other except his wife. He has told his parents and cousins and best friends and all of my family knows - but no one talks about it or acknowleges it. I have assiduously avoided editorializing thus far, but I just have to say (from having been there...) how humiliating this will be for her once she learns that "everyone except his wife knows." Not attacking you - that's probably all on him and how he has chosen to handle - or neglected to take responsibility for - the dismantling of his family, but, well, it's always sad. it took him 15 months to leave and now we are in the third month of waiting for the next step.... That doesn't sound outrageously long... But is there any possibility that he is still not committed to his decision? That in his mind, he is still weighing the pros and cons, "making sure" before he truly moves forward? That staying and working on his marriage might still be among his options? Edited February 15, 2008 by Trimmer grammar
Author akrowergirl Posted February 15, 2008 Author Posted February 15, 2008 humiliating this will be for her once she learns that "everyone except his wife knows." Not attacking you - that's probably all on him and how he has chosen to handle - or neglected to take responsibility for - the dismantling of his family, but, well, it's always sad. That doesn't sound outrageously long... But is there any possibility that he is still not committed to his decision? That in his mind, he is still weighing the pros and cons, "making sure" before he truly moves forward? That staying and working on his marriage might still be among his options? Telling his friends and family I think was his way of "testing the waters of his decision" And I think it is what made it possible for him to move forward - most of his family has been pushing him to take this step because she is a severe alcoholic who spends most of her time playing video games. He did all of the cooking, grocery shopping and cleaning as well as working full time. They have been married 12 years - their children are 12, 13, 14, 16. She has not worked since they were married. I am positive that he is not weighing wether or not to do it - I think he is paralized by the steps required to move forward. He hates confrontation and avoids it at all cost, which is how his marriage got to the point of him doing everything. I went through my divorce 5 years ago. It was finalized 3 months after his girlfriend helped him move out. I suppose part of the problem is that I think once you make a decision you do it and get it over with so that everyone can move on and start healing. I feel like that by not taking action he is allowing her to pretend that nothing is changing. And I think that it gives false hope to the kids that their parents will get back together.
Trimmer Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 Telling his friends and family I think was his way of "testing the waters of his decision" And I think it is what made it possible for him to move forward - most of his family has been pushing him to take this step because she is a severe alcoholic who spends most of her time playing video games. He did all of the cooking, grocery shopping and cleaning as well as working full time. They have been married 12 years - their children are 12, 13, 14, 16. She has not worked since they were married. I am positive that he is not weighing wether or not to do it - I think he is paralized by the steps required to move forward. He hates confrontation and avoids it at all cost, which is how his marriage got to the point of him doing everything. ....and why it took him meeting someone else to take action, in spite of how bad things are in his marriage, and why he couldn't stand up and make these changes himself, as an individual. But it sounds like it consistent with his approach that he wouldn't "rock the boat" until something more significant essentially forces to do so. In a sense, you are his exit strategy - something that he couldn't do on his own. Have you considered that this is something about him that will probably not change, once he is with you?
Author akrowergirl Posted February 15, 2008 Author Posted February 15, 2008 .... Have you considered that this is something about him that will probably not change, once he is with you? Absolutely. I fully understand that this is and will be the way he handles issues in our relationship. However I am not looking for a relationship that is perfect and I think understanding that this is how he reacts gives us the opportunity to find less-confrontive ways to deal with our issues.
mistie03 Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 It sounds like he is conflicted about the whole thing. He may even be changing his mind. I don't always buy it when they say that they are only there because of the kids. That ALWAYS seems to be the excuse. I think that if you push him or go to his wife, you will cause him to retreat further or possibly even go back to her. I would back off.
GreenEyedLady Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 You know what? Do what you need to do...No one here knows him or you...If you think it's worth it, then be patient...These things take time and it's stressful to get divorced... If he's not giving you what you need, then start dating...You'd be surprised what a little competition does to the male ego...
whichwayisup Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 I fully understand that this is and will be the way he handles issues in our relationship. If you two have a shot at a future, I would hope he gets counselling, let alone you two do couples therapy. He has ALOT of emotional baggage, and his ex will always be part of your lives, because of the kids. If he truly loves you and wants to be with you, then time will tell. Until then, give him space to work out his divorce, settle his kids. It isn't your right to tell his wife about you and him - Though I think he's made a big mistake by telling everyone but her. It's like he's trying to make himself NOT be the bad guy in her eyes. I dunno...He doesn't seem like such a prize - The way he's treated his wife, his family...Remember, this is the woman he had children with! She didn't work because she was bringing them up! So, don't expect him to treat you any better in the future, especially if there are problems.
Author akrowergirl Posted February 16, 2008 Author Posted February 16, 2008 Thanks to everybody for their advice so far - I agree that he doesn't want to look bad in anyones eyes - I certainly didn't mean to put down stay at home moms - Of the four children only one is his biological child - the other three were born before he met her but he has raised them all and I know he worries that she will keep them from him because he has no legal right to them. And though I know she helped raise them, for the last three years she has been passed out by 1 pm every day - I am not sure what it was like before I knew them... He stopped by tonight dropped off pizza on his way to pick up his son for the weekend ( the other three kids spend every other weekend at their dad's) I told him I would give him space and time - but I was going to take space and time as well. I suggested a break for both of us to think about what we really want out of life. I told him I wouldn't run out looking for someone else but wouldn't say "no" if it came along. I suggested that when he gets to th point he is ready to have a real relationship, maybe I would still b waiting. Now the hard part is keeping it. I want to call him but know that will put me right back where I was. I am literally just watching the minutes go by. But I think I made the right choice. I am worried about Monday when I have to go back to work.
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