I'm PISSED

[spookie]

I meant to give an update last night, after conversation #1, but I was going on hour number 40 of no sleep and my brain wasn't really working.

 

Anyway, conversation #1 went like this:

 

spookie, over AIM: I don't feel like I'm ready to be in a relationship at this point in my life.

 

Mr. AS: Ok.

 

spookie: I like you a lot but my life is a mess. I need to focus on that instead of using you to avoid reality. What with the stripping thing etc. I'm not good for you anyway. I hope you understand.

 

Mr. AS: Yes

 

So I signed off and prepared to spend the night exactly as I wanted to (stoned in bed watching porn), when I noticed that I'd gotten a message from Mr. AS in my inbox.

 

It was LONG. He argued for why we should stay together. Said the stripping didn't bother him at all, that in fact he viewed me as somewhat of a Hunter S. Thompson character and liked that he could live vicariously through my stories. He said if hanging out biweekly was too much for me, we could change pace, see each other less frequently. And that he could help me with certain things, like fixing my car.

 

At that point I logged back on AIM to offer a different explanation. I told him I wasn't happy with the power dynamics, how I was always wearing the pants. To that, his response was that he was unequipped at this point to take initiative, but was working on acquiring the right tools (car, knowledge of this city, etc.) Fair enough.

 

So I said he didn't have enough experience to be in a relationship. How could he know this was what he wanted if he had nothing to compare it to? To explain, he launched into a story about his childhood, which had freaky parallells to my own. Apparently, his dad also cheated on his mom with younger women; his mom also thought she had contracted an STD from one of his dad's foreign "whores"; and, just like my mom used me, his used him to vent her frustrations.

 

I wanted to hug him at that point. But he wasn't finished.

 

He said his parents' marriage, and years of analyzing other people's relationships, have paid off in that he knows what he wants and what not to do. That he doesn't think dating the wrong people and lots of random sex are going to teach him anything new about himself. That he's always wanted to do this once, but as right as possible.

 

That was understandable, respectable, I thought. (It was what I always wanted, after all, with my ex. For him to be my one and only.)

 

Which made me wonder: why exactly do I despise Mr. AS so much? I mean, I've re-read what I've written on here about him and it's mean and entirely uncalled-for. So he's out of shape. Big deal. That's the worst thing I could find! I've bad-mouthed him as hard as I could for no reason!

 

That made me feel really guilty on top of perplexed. I started thinking maybe I was trying to justify a breakup because it wasn't the right thing for EITHER of us.

 

So I ended the convo with I'm sorry, I feel better having talked to you, see you tomorrow?

 

Well, here we are in tomorrow. We ate dinner with my friends earlier and now I'm at his place; in his bed in fact with my pants off.

 

And now I know what's wrong.

 

He might be the most perfect person for me in the world, on paper; but in reality we just don't mesh.

 

I think he's annoying.

 

It's not his fault, it's not even anything in particular that he does, but it's the truth.

 

And I've realized, through all this... love IS the most important thing, nothing else matters. Mr. AS would have been so good for me, we could have made it work forever, but what would the point have been, if I couldn't love him?

 

The big things can be compromised. The little things about a person you just can't change.

[spookie]

Which puts me... exactly where I started.

 

And I still have no idea how to break up with him.

 

What do you do when someone disqualifies your "it's not you, it's me argument"?

 

And offers you reasons for why he IS the right person for you, right now? Reasons you actually agree with?

 

I don't want to get nasty. I don't want to tell him I just don't find him attractive, he just doesn't turn me on. That's what the truth would be, but his confidence regarding all that is already so low, and I'm afraid to crush it.

[Seaman Staines]

I love your posts, spookie.

Aren't they the best!

 

Maybe tell him that when relationships don't work out, it's not about you, and it's not about me - it's about us. As Randy would say on American Idol: "I'm just not feeling it, dawg."

 

http://macboy.com/cartoons/ipod/

[shadowplay]

Which puts me... exactly where I started.

 

And I still have no idea how to break up with him.

 

What do you do when someone disqualifies your "it's not you, it's me argument"?

 

And offers you reasons for why he IS the right person for you, right now? Reasons you actually agree with?

 

I don't want to get nasty. I don't want to tell him I just don't find him attractive, he just doesn't turn me on. That's what the truth would be, but his confidence regarding all that is already so low, and I'm afraid to crush it.

 

I'm always blunt in such situations -- maybe to a fault. I have trouble telling white lies and don't usually advise it, but in his case I don't know...he sounds so fragile. Proceed with caution.

 

Here's what I'd tell him. I'd say it's the power dynamics thing (which is mostly true), and that perhaps he's working on becoming more assertive/strong, but that may be a long process and it's not fair to ask you to wait around for him while he changes. He is the way he is right now. Say that you're sure he'll find his "one" some day, but he needs more experience first. You can't be his teacher. It sounds to me like he's scared of gaining that experience and clinging for dear life to the first girl who takes him -- you. That's not healthy.

 

I'm curious about your change of heart. I mean most of the things about him you find annoying you were aware of from the start, right? So why did he suddenly stop turning you on?

[Phateless]

You just tell him outright that you're not into it and you don't want to date him. Be honest... People can smell BS and lame excuses and cliche false explanations only make people mad when you're trying to break up with them. Just do it, and be honest. When it comes down to it, if you don't want to date him, you don't have to.

[Kamille]

Which puts me... exactly where I started.

 

And I still have no idea how to break up with him.

 

What do you do when someone disqualifies your "it's not you, it's me argument"?

 

And offers you reasons for why he IS the right person for you, right now? Reasons you actually agree with?

 

I don't want to get nasty. I don't want to tell him I just don't find him attractive, he just doesn't turn me on. That's what the truth would be, but his confidence regarding all that is already so low, and I'm afraid to crush it.

 

 

He's bargainning - it's one of the 5 stages of grief. (It's number 3 actually). It's also very common for dumpees to bargain.

 

I think you might be so inclined to self-criticism that of course bargaining might work with you.

 

You have to realize that right now, since he is in a mode of bargainning-keep-Spookie-in-my-life-at-cost, he will play all the cards he can play to make you stay.

 

Don't doubt what your instincts are telling you. You're not attracted to him. Yet, just because this guy isn't for you doesn't me he's a loser.

 

Break it off, tell him you need to go NC for awhile and ignore all his attempts at bargainning, no matter how personnal they get. I know I would eventually be turned off if someone played the pity card on me.

 

edit: I just read that the 5 staged of grief don't follow the order and not everyone goes through them all. His bargainning is therefore his way of dealing with loss in this situation. Recognize it as something he needs to go through without you Spooks. That pain is his and his alone and nothing you say or do will make it better.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Kamille
discussing psych theory

[Replicant]

Aside from what you think of the guy, considering you yourself have a full deck of issues so one cannot really cast stones here. If the whole thing was a conquest on your part as a virgin huntress and you've been around the block many more times. To just let the truth not be told if the dude has mental issues, unloading on him may not be for the best. Just make it decisive meaning no bargaining and car fixing (As much as you may need it ) just go NC. For your own good here.

 

I can't imagine all these whacked relationships you land yourself in do you much good emotionally. If anything the result is like what put you on a coke binge, flying high on your stripper pole then come crashing down and claw at the walls for school the next day. So in many ways you actually resemble what you drive...that thing is ready to fall apart. Kinda like when you reach 30 you'll have so much mileage on you from all the wear and tear you'll be an emotional and physical burnout...and who will want to get a ride from that?! Just something to think on.

[Trialbyfire]

Breaking up with him sooner, rather than later, will be better for him.

 

Do it and do it kindly as you know how. Explain to him that you don't feel the two of you are compatible and make it a non-negotiable. I doubt this will work, in that part of being an aspie, is obsessive behaviour but hey, what's another emotional hit for him?

[shadowplay]

Aside from what you think of the guy, considering you yourself have a full deck of issues so one cannot really cast stones here. If the whole thing was a conquest on your part as a virgin huntress and you've been around the block many more times. To just let the truth not be told if the dude has mental issues, unloading on him may not be for the best. Just make it decisive meaning no bargaining and car fixing (As much as you may need it ) just go NC. For your own good here.

 

I can't imagine all these whacked relationships you land yourself in do you much good emotionally. If anything the result is like what put you on a coke binge, flying high on your stripper pole then come crashing down and claw at the walls for school the next day. So in many ways you actually resemble what you drive...that thing is ready to fall apart. Kinda like when you reach 30 you'll have so much mileage on you from all the wear and tear you'll be an emotional and physical burnout...and who will want to get a ride from that?! Just something to think on.

 

I agree with Replicant. Forget about relationships for now. You need to take care of yourself. I'm concerned about you. Just a month or so ago it seemed like you were really getting your shyt together. Do you think the stress of starting school again has provoked this regression? Are you still seeing that therapist?

[spookie]

Apparently I have no balls.

 

I spent Friday with Mr. AS, coming to the same old conclusions. That night, not feeling up to a breakup, I passed out at his place in a Nyquil and painkillers-induced coma.

 

I slept till four.

 

The next day I still felt too crappy to break up with him, so I dragged myself home, where I realized my housemates were having a party. I didn't feel like studying anyway, so I popped some more Tylenols to kill the ache in the back of my head, put on my awesome pink fishnets and some makeup, and prepared to get my drink on.

 

I called Mr. AS to invite him to come over, not really thinking that he would; but he accepted enthusiastically and showed up within half an hour, WITH ALCOHOL (this guy feared people and had never drank anything before he met me).

 

I let him mingle whilst I engaged my roommates in a several games of Scrabble. Every half an hour or so I'd check up on him; it was obvious he was having a good time flirting with girls.

 

After the party we hitched a ride in the back of a truck to get some tacos.

 

Then we walked, through "Crackwhoresville", as he likes to call my neighborhood, back to my house. Everyone was gone. I was so horny. I took him to my room, gave him a lapdance in the computer chair, and demanded that he spank me. I figured, if he was awkward being himself, maybe he'd loosen up a little role-playing my pervert uncle.

 

But, the sex was still awful. A moment before penetration, he said, "I'm going to delegate decisions regarding limb organization to you, cause you seem to know what you're doing, OK?" It was so bad I asked him to stop in the middle and went to the bathroom to masturbate.

 

Then I tried to end it. This time, no beating around the bush: I told him that I am still in love with my ex and didn't think I could feel anything for him, ever. And that I thought he needed more experience in the bedroom.

 

His response: to the first part- That's ok with me. Thank you for caring enough to want to end it for my sake. To the second: How much more experience would be sufficient? I think a lot of girls are hot, like all the girls at today's party (including all my roommates) but I don't want to sleep with them, it would require too much effort, and what I like about you is that we get to talk. I don't think I'll ever want to sleep around, but I'm working on getting better. I downloaded a manual the other day and I'm halfway through it. If you don't want, we don't have to have sex at all.

 

WTF???

 

I had no idea how to reply to that, so I went to sleep. He stayed up to write me a long letter on a piece of cardboard he'd found in the gigantic pile of trash in the middle of my room. In morning, I said, "Let's take a week to think about this, ok?"

 

I know the answer at this point is going to be "go NC" but I guess I don't want to hurt him and would like to get to keep him as a friend. We haven't been together long enough, IMO, for him to have developed any real feelings - I think he likes me mostly for the level of adventure I provide for his life - and I can continue to do that as a friend. I think going NC would be what would hurt him, not the actual breakup, but I don't know how to make it more clear to him that I want to be free to pursue other people.

Edited February 18, 2008 by spookie

[Kamille]

Is that you and a bottle of Bayleys in your av? If so you're stunning.

 

Spookie, you are going to hurt him. Accept it. There is no way around it and likely no way to end it nicely. I mean, try to be as nice about it as you can, but he will be hurt no matter what.

 

We've all had our hearts broken and we've all learned one lesson very well: the last person who can help you with a broken heart is the person who broke your heart.

 

I won't say go NC, but I will say you can't mother the guy. Let him go.

[shadowplay]

Spookie, I'm still curious about why, a couple of weeks ago, you said that he was amazing in bed. What changed? Also what about the sex is so terrible? Is he too robotic?

 

I can't get over what he said before he penetrated you. Is that verbatim? What a turnoff! Poor guy. *Shakes head*

 

Ordinarily I might say that you should stay friends, but I think NC is better in this case. If you stay his friend, you'll probably cave and continue having sex with him while he'll always hold on to hope that you guys get back together. Right now you're using him for emotional support because you're lonely and stressed. You'll feel bad about yourself if you continue to use him. NC is better for both of you, hard as that may be.

 

Good luck.

[tanbark813]

A moment before penetration, he said, "I'm going to delegate decisions regarding limb organization to you, cause you seem to know what you're doing, OK?"

 

 

That is so awesome.

[Ariadne]

Hey Spookie,

 

You know, I like this guy for you. And I like it even more each time you talk about him.

 

I think that you are pretty gutsy, say, not many people would dare venture doing what you are doing with the stripping and stuff, and the guys that you meet there are men of the world, the managers and that.

 

So he pales in comparison. But really, I don't think that guy is a wimp at all. Yes, he won't even drive a car. But those things are a consequence of his condition, he read somewhere about the risks of diving and decided not to since he didn't need it etc. He is more like textbook for those things.

 

He is in a way stronger than most people you meet because he is not full of ego and has much more understanding. All the things he tells you make sense. Like this: what I like about you is that we get to talk.

 

I think that for the life you are living now, that guy would be crucial for your support. He'd be a firm rock for you.

 

And about the sexual thing, many guys like that, the nerdy type, like to be on the submissive role. And since you are the one that have been teaching him stuff, he is getting to enjoy that role even more. I think you have to make him do stuff in bed that you like and he'll pick up just fine.

 

Plus, he's been supportive, doesn't give you any drama, you ask him to come at 2am to your apt to write some email and he does, he mingled with your friends, etc. Seems like he's doing fine.

 

But you'll figure it out. And I really don't think that you are in love with your ex.

 

Good luck

[spookie]

Spookie, I'm still curious about why, a couple of weeks ago, you said that he was amazing in bed. What changed? Also what about the sex is so terrible? Is he too robotic?

 

I can't get over what he said before he penetrated you. Is that verbatim? What a turnoff! Poor guy. *Shakes head*

 

Ordinarily I might say that you should stay friends, but I think NC is better in this case. If you stay his friend, you'll probably cave and continue having sex with him while he'll always hold on to hope that you guys get back together. Right now you're using him for emotional support because you're lonely and stressed. You'll feel bad about yourself if you continue to use him. NC is better for both of you, hard as that may be.

 

Good luck.

 

I said he was good before we actually had intercourse... he WAS good at foreplay/ with his fingers, and, to a lesser extent, kissing though he became progressively worse at that as he felt more comfortable with me (now he seems to passion/ "being in control" = shoving his tongue all the way down my throat when we're positioned in such a way that my movement is disabled).

 

The sex is terrible because he's either questioning me regarding the geometry of the act "How does this work?", telling me what to do "Squeeze your pubococcygeus muscles!", expressing discomfort "My neck hurts in this position", making out with me so fervently I can't breathe; or else completely inert, insisting that he lie back and I do all the work, including wrapping him up, because I allegedly know what I am doing, while he does not.

 

People have said he will learn, or that if I was good in bed, I could teach him... but I don't know, I think I gave it my best and at this point I am so turned off by the whole idea of sex I honestly don't think I'll be ABLE to "give in".

 

I wanted it to work really, really badly. I tried. I think he's a nice guy. I'm not one of those girls that doesn't value that. I just think, at the end of the day, I can't feel love for someone with whom the chemistry is that bad. Cause I think that's what's going on - I think if we had more chemistry, it wouldn't feel so unnatural.

[Star Gazer]

But, the sex was still awful. A moment before penetration, he said, "I'm going to delegate decisions regarding limb organization to you, cause you seem to know what you're doing, OK?" It was so bad I asked him to stop in the middle and went to the bathroom to masturbate.

 

Oh my. That's horrible.

 

I don't know how to make it more clear to him that I want to be free to pursue other people.

 

STOP INVITING HIM OUT. Chat on the phone, IM, be his friend that way - but don't put yourself in a situation where you're "together" until he's moved on.

[spookie]

Hey Spookie,

 

You know, I like this guy for you. And I like it even more each time you talk about him.

 

I think that you are pretty gutsy, say, not many people would dare venture doing what you are doing with the stripping and stuff, and the guys that you meet there are men of the world, the managers and that.

 

So he pales in comparison. But really, I don't think that guy is a wimp at all. Yes, he won't even drive a car. But those things are a consequence of his condition, he read somewhere about the risks of diving and decided not to since he didn't need it etc. He is more like textbook for those things.

 

He is in a way stronger than most people you meet because he is not full of ego and has much more understanding. All the things he tells you make sense. Like this: what I like about you is that we get to talk.

 

I think that for the life you are living now, that guy would be crucial for your support. He'd be a firm rock for you.

 

And about the sexual thing, many guys like that, the nerdy type, like to be on the submissive role. And since you are the one that have been teaching him stuff, he is getting to enjoy that role even more. I think you have to make him do stuff in bed that you like and he'll pick up just fine.

 

Plus, he's been supportive, doesn't give you any drama, you ask him to come at 2am to your apt to write some email and he does, he mingled with your friends, etc. Seems like he's doing fine.

 

But you'll figure it out. And I really don't think that you are in love with your ex.

 

Good luck

 

You know Ariadne... a 98% of me TOTALLY agrees with this. He's been so fantastic to me; and I understand him, I see myself in him, despite where my life's taken me; which is what causes me to be both harsh on him and protective.

 

But, there's a part of me that's more romantic than this relationship will ever allow. And for better or for worse, against my better judgment, I think I'm always going to long for the kind of love that punches the air out of you, leaving you weak at the knees.

[spookie]

Is that you and a bottle of Bayleys in your av? If so you're stunning.

 

Spookie, you are going to hurt him. Accept it. There is no way around it and likely no way to end it nicely. I mean, try to be as nice about it as you can, but he will be hurt no matter what.

 

We've all had our hearts broken and we've all learned one lesson very well: the last person who can help you with a broken heart is the person who broke your heart.

 

I won't say go NC, but I will say you can't mother the guy. Let him go.

 

Yep, that's be and my Bailey's.

 

You're right that the last person who can help with a broken heart is the person who broke it. However, would I really be breaking his heart? Is he at that point already? It seems too early for that to me... but perhaps I'm biased because my heart would be whole if it ended (or else it was so broken at go that losing him would not make any difference.)

 

Blah. I guess because I remember how badly my ex hurt me, I don't want to be the bad guy here. And yet the longer I procrastinate, the worse a guy I become...

[Ariadne]

And for better or for worse, against my better judgment, I think I'm always going to long for the kind of love that punches the air out of you, leaving you weak at the knees.

 

Well, those things just take time.

 

You can't have true love in a day or two. You barely know the guy.

 

The infatuation type love you can have in an instant, love at first sight, but the deeper kind grows.

 

He's been handling you amazingly well, so he has my respects for that.

 

Hugs.

[shadowplay]

I "Squeeze your pubococcygeus muscles!",

 

OMG...

 

Is it terrible that I laughed? At least he provides comic relief.

 

I think I mentioned to you in another thread that I once dated a guy with Asperger's and he was also a nightmare in bed (but not to such a comical degree). I warned you, Spookie! He was the worst kisser I've ever had. He would make movements with his mouth like a fish. No rhythm whatsoever or natural responsiveness to what the other was doing. Everything was forced and unnatural.

 

He once told me that he had a running commentary in his head during sex and couldn't let himself just experience the moment. In turn he tried to overcompensate by feigning extreme passion. He also expressed a desire to be "pegged," but I wouldn't stand for it. He confessed that he had once stuffed a cherry up his ass. I was so emotionally and sexually scarred by being with him, that for a few months after our breakup I had no interest in sex whatsoever. I got paranoid that every guy I encountered harbored a hidden well of kinky desires and weird fetishes that he would spring on me once we became intimate.

[Ariadne]

Btw,

 

Once he gets a car and figures his way around things..

 

You won't have to be mothering him around so much.

 

I see a lot of progress, he is breaking out of the mold with your help.

 

Is like you are both helping each other.

[shadowplay]

SG's suggestion about just talking over IM sounds good, but only if you can resist the temptation to use him to relieve your horniness/loneliness. Be very firm with him, or he'll start to bargain with you.

 

Also, For the Love of God, please leave the guy a few tips on how to improve in the sack as a parting gift! He needs all the help he can get.

Edited February 18, 2008 by shadowplay

[Ariadne]

"How does this work?", telling me what to do "Squeeze your pubococcygeus muscles!", expressing discomfort "My neck hurts in this position"

 

He just wants you to make him feel at your mercy. Like, yes, you are doing just fine, keep it up. Turn around, is that better?

 

Just get inside his head and he'll rock your world.

 

You won't have enough sex with that guy once you figure him out.

[spookie]

Btw,

 

Once he gets a car and figures his way around things..

 

You won't have to be mothering him around so much.

 

I see a lot of progress, he is breaking out of the mold with your help.

 

Is like you are both helping each other.

 

"How does this work?", telling me what to do "Squeeze your pubococcygeus muscles!", expressing discomfort "My neck hurts in this position"

 

He just wants you to make him feel at your mercy. Like, yes, you are doing just fine, keep it up. Turn around, is that better?

 

Just get inside his head and he'll rock your world.

 

You won't have enough sex with that guy once you figure him out.

 

See, I'm afraid this might be true. Then if I break up with him I will have lost an amazing guy I could have programmed according to my personal specifications. He's like a fixer-upper: an amazing find, but could use some work.

 

I notice even that his "annoying" qualities only manifest when he's feeling insecure. Like when we're around other people and I'm not paying attention to him, or when I'm at his place but distant for whatever reason.

 

I'd bet money that he's amazing when he's in his element. And that the sex, eventually, will improve. I could help start that happening by, for example, offering better commentary on his performance.

 

But, it's like I'm torn between wanting to find someone who knocks me out at first sight (like my ex did, but then, we all know what a jacka$$ he turned out to be and how he betrayed me when it mattered) and wanting to go with my judgement, my knowledge of the fact that, as you said, true love takes time, takes work.

 

You're so right that "true love" takes time and work.

[Nemo]

I'd bet money that he's amazing when he's in his element. And that the sex, eventually, will improve. I could help start that happening by, for example, offering better commentary on his performance.

Constructive sex talk. I wish people would take that approach with me, instead of screaming, "Get that thing out of my arse!"

You're so right that "true love" takes time and work.

He sounds like he's pulling out all the stops. Give him some time to truly grow on you.