CaliGuy Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Believe them. If I have one piece of advice for you when dating someone new it's to write down anything that you feel qualifies as a red flag and refer to it later after you've been dating a while (before you get too emotionally involved). I had been seeing this person for a while, on and off. Mostly off because she is extremely insecure. She would constantly say things like "I don't believe you really like me" and "I don't know that I can trust you…" It wasn't that she couldn't trust me. I never gave her a reason to NOT trust me. I was always completely honest and open with her. It's that she's inherently insecure to the point that there's absolutely no foundation of trust to build on. She gave me these red flags long ago and I made "mental notes" so as to not let myself get too attached while trying to figure out who she is. The good thing is while I am disappointed, I am not heartbroken. I know some will say "well ya never got close to her" or whatever, but that wasn’t the case. I was open to it had she just relaxed and not questioned my motives every time we talked. So when you see these red flags, WALK AWAY Confident people attract and will be attractive to other confident people. Insecure, clingy, needy people will drive you nuts and there's nothing inherently attractive about those traits.
oppath Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) I agree with this. A woman I was on/off with would act like that too, always saying "other girls?" or "do you love that as much as you love me?" and other manipulative tactics that hurt me. She was needy. She'd often say "I don't believe you" or "you're lying" when I had never lied to her. But i was also insecure about me own adequacy at the time. I don't express those insecurities in the "I don't trust you" kind of way, but they are noticeable right now. So there were red flags on both sides. In general, I think you need to define for yourself "what is a healthy relationship for me" and "what are my dealbreakers and red flags" and you need to pay attention to those definitions. Edited February 12, 2008 by oppath
oppath Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Needy women make me wanna yak! A woman (and man) can be needy and insecure as long as she doesn't make the other person feel bad, or she doesn't try to manipulate them like "if you really liked me, you'd do this." There needy people who are vulnerable and need support but do not question the other person. If that neediness is how you feel about yourself and kept within, it's ok. The problem is when you behave based on that neediness, and you are really trying to manipulate something out of your partner. Caliguy's woman, and mine, were manipulative with their neediness. There is a difference between saying "I've been depressed lately and feel inadequate" and feeling those things but saying "you probably don't even really like me." The first statement, while not attractive, doesn't make the other person feel bad or guilty.
sandflea Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I can't agree enough, Cali. In my last relationship I was always trying to ignore that little voice in my head. I would see how shallow, selfish and dogmatic she was - but somehow I'd rationalize. When your gut starts screaming at you - LISTEN TO IT! When your intuition is telling you - "hey, dude - did you SEE what she just did?!?" - Pay attention. I could have saved myself tons of hurt and tons of money and both of our time if I'd just said - "hey, I think you're great, and I want to keep seeing you, but I don't think we're at a point where we should move in together". Yes, I was thinking that. I saw someone who was really selfish, prejudiced, cynical and at times mean, and I thought "Dude - she's not the one for you". But I went in anyway, like a damn lemming, and now I have a huge mess to clean up! Red flags are your friends. If your SO is mean to service people (wait staff, bartenders, etc). If your SO is always unhappy about something. If your SO never meets you half way - WALK, no RUN! Please don't make the mistake I made. Just because someone is beautiful on the outside does NOT make them so on the inside. I've said it all along, and I'll say it again - I want a partner, not a project. SF
Author CaliGuy Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 I've said it all along, and I'll say it again - I want a partner, not a project. Well said!! Now where can I find me one of those partners and NOT a project? For once I'd like to date someone without any baggage or issues where we can just hang out and have fun together. Boy, that'd be nice for a change, eh?
PinkRibbon Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Well when you find her see if she has a brother for me. I would love a man without emotional baggage.
mistie03 Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I can't agree enough, Cali. In my last relationship I was always trying to ignore that little voice in my head. I would see how shallow, selfish and dogmatic she was - but somehow I'd rationalize. When your gut starts screaming at you - LISTEN TO IT! When your intuition is telling you - "hey, dude - did you SEE what she just did?!?" - Pay attention. I could have saved myself tons of hurt and tons of money and both of our time if I'd just said - "hey, I think you're great, and I want to keep seeing you, but I don't think we're at a point where we should move in together". Yes, I was thinking that. I saw someone who was really selfish, prejudiced, cynical and at times mean, and I thought "Dude - she's not the one for you". But I went in anyway, like a damn lemming, and now I have a huge mess to clean up! Red flags are your friends. If your SO is mean to service people (wait staff, bartenders, etc). If your SO is always unhappy about something. If your SO never meets you half way - WALK, no RUN! Please don't make the mistake I made. Just because someone is beautiful on the outside does NOT make them so on the inside. I've said it all along, and I'll say it again - I want a partner, not a project. SF I did make that mistake. My ex-bf sounds very much like you describe. He is super hot and funny. I rationalized his negative characteristics and turned a blind eye to them. After awhile, you realize that you can't be blind to it anymore. I shouldn't have stayed in that relationship for so long. The relationship eventually became a drudgery to me. I got to the point that I dreaded seeing him pull into my driveway. He always had a crisis, a complaint or something! He always wanted me to drop what I was doing and be of service to him. Nothing was ever good enough. Blah!
dfreeman Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I saw someone who was really selfish, prejudiced, cynical and at times mean, and I thought "Dude - she's not the one for you". But I went in anyway, like a damn lemming, and now I have a huge mess to clean up! Guilty!!! ...other than the prejudiced part, I did the same damn thing to myself!
sandflea Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Hey - I understand that people can have a few hangups. I mean, I'm no spring chicken (I'll be 40 in May) - and so I tend to expect a few failed relationships. Maybe a divorce. I understand that none of us is getting any younger, and people have certain insecurities. In a way it can be very endearing when you see someone reluctantly try to take another chance - to lower their guard and to start falling. We all take a leap of faith when we fall in love. And, whether or not any of us want to admit it - we all know the risks. I wish it was easier. I guess I don't take as many chances as I used to, and maybe that's a bit sad. But time has taught me that some packages are best left wrapped, and these days if I start to sense something rotten - I'm out. I don't want to just get laid (well, I do, but that's for another thread ) - I'd like to share my life with someone. But when I say share I mean SHARE. You know - two adults, meeting each other half way, and backing each other up. I can't stand the primadonas and the drama queens. Just give me some level headed gal with a decent career who takes care of herself and likes to have fun. I don't care if she has a kid or two, I don't care if she's got a wart on her foot, or if she has 6 toes - or 3 nipples. Just someone half way normal who has half a heart left, and isn't ready to go gently into that good night. Sheesh! But anyway - I'll stop ranting. Peace, people. SF
Roller EastCoaster Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 good tips guys... I know I always kinda like to take on projects. I dont know why it is, but in hindsight they drain you of who you are especially when you are yourself a project that you have to work on. From now, Im gonna wait until the project is completed or at least in full progression and with solid goals in sight before I jump in. Great insights and well put Sandflea and Caliguy.
Author CaliGuy Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 good tips guys... I know I always kinda like to take on projects. I dont know why it is, but in hindsight they drain you of who you are especially when you are yourself a project that you have to work on. From now, Im gonna wait until the project is completed or at least in full progression and with solid goals in sight before I jump in. Great insights and well put Sandflea and Caliguy. Thanks. I will add this: If you are the enabler type of personality you will always have issues with relationships. You can't fix people, they have to fix themselves. If you try and help them, when they are healthy, they'll leave you for someone else. They'll see you as a counselor and a friend but never a lover. The best way to have a happy and healthy relationship is to find a happy, healthy person to have one with Cheers
realgone Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 this is honestly the best advice. paying attention to the red flags is the preemptive strike to heartbreak and relationship drama. the biggest lesson i'm taking from my recent breakup is to "believe them." the ex let me know time and time again in our relationship that she was insecure, selfish, immature, and unempathetic. i seriously thought she'd just grow up while we were together. it didn't happen, and all of the character deficiencies manifested to an EXTREME when we broke up. i spent a lot of time shocked and confused about everything, but the truth is that she let me know all along. from now on, i'm believing them.
CalamitousJane Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 This thread should be a sticky. Thanks Caliguy. That's exactly what I'm thinking about now, BEFORE I jump into something new. My ex was judgmental, self-centered, inflexible and indecisive. I remember the exact moment I noticed each of these characteristics, and I remember exactly how I decided each wasn't a big deal, when deep inside I knew each of these problems was a big deal. I have a date Friday night with I guy I'm really excited by, but already there's a voice in my head telling me that he's probably TOO exciting, if that makes sense. I will make the red-flag hunt my top priority. Hopefully that will take the edge off my desire to get laid.
Author CaliGuy Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 the biggest lesson i'm taking from my recent breakup is to "believe them." This reminds me of something I heard a long time ago: When someone TELLS you who they are, don't believe it. When they SHOW you who they are, definitely BELIEVE it. In other words, people can say they are this or that but the truth really comes out in how they act. They can SAY they love you, but do they ACT like they love you? Do they demonstrate with sincerity? If I have learned anything about relationships it's to put little stock into what people tell me (I love you, I care about you, I want to be with you) and much more weight into what they demonstrate to me. Otherwise, the rest is just hot air. The reason red flags go off in our head is we know something is wrong even if we can't pinpoint it. The goal then is to love one's self enough to say "I'll protect my heart for now until I see who the person truly is." Everyone wants a great relationship. No doubt about that. But in order for that to happen you have to be willing to pay attention to red flags and pass a potential love interest up in order to avoid a ton of heartbreak and wasted time on Mr or Ms Wrong. Cheers.
Star Gazer Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I never see red flags until I'm already in too deep, at which point I choose to ignore them. That's obviously gotta change. But seriously, it's as though men hide their red flags from me until they know I'm hooked. Once you're hooked, what do you do in response to the red flags then? For example, CG, what if you had already fallen for this girl BEFORE she started showing her needy/insecure flag? I think many women (myself included) don't start showing needy behavior until/unless they think they have something to lose (a guy who's actually into them). What would you have done then?
Author CaliGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Posted February 13, 2008 I never see red flags until I'm already in too deep, at which point I choose to ignore them. That's obviously gotta change. But seriously, it's as though men hide their red flags from me until they know I'm hooked. Once you're hooked, what do you do in response to the red flags then? That is why so many people say "Hold off on the sex until you know the person much, much better." Sex convolutes our better judgment. For example, CG, what if you had already fallen for this girl BEFORE she started showing her needy/insecure flag? I think many women (myself included) don't start showing needy behavior until/unless they think they have something to lose (a guy who's actually into them). What would you have done then? I would have probably ended up like I did with the ex that brought me to LS in the first place, a total wreck. The only difference between the first ex and this one is that this time I am much more emotionally stable and used better judgment. The minute the red flags showed my guard went up. Also, I don't see walking away from this as a loss, but more or less one less person in the way of Ms Right Again it comes down to how much you love and respect yourself. If you truly love and respect yourself you won't see the situation as "having lost" something as much as gaining respect for yourself. Think about it, SG. What you have to offer a relationship most men dream about. A smart, successful, attractive woman with a good head on her shoulders should feel no loss when she loses a guy that isn't working, doesn't really have anything going for him, lives at home, doesn't SHOW with his actions that he truly cares, etc. If you put on your logic hat (and I realize logic doesn't equate in any way to love) the guy isn't even on your level. I'm not saying he is beneath you so to speak, he just doesn't bring nearly what you bring to the table. He's one less obstacle on your way to meeting Mr. Right. Cheers
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 I seem to have lost my logic hat. I do recall owning one before though. How do I go about purchasing a new one?
melodymatters Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 This excellent advice cali guy, and easier to do with some time and experience under your belt. I guess the challange for me will be to do it with EVERYONE because my last three BF's spanning ten years, each one i thought would be a short, fun, date for 3 months type of thing, and then I guess I " fooled around and fell in love' as the song goes. So, red flag alert even when i don't THINK their the one, because they might at least end up being Mr wrong for 3-5 years !
Author CaliGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Posted February 13, 2008 I seem to have lost my logic hat. I do recall owning one before though. How do I go about purchasing a new one? I'm not saying YOU are guilty of this (I think we all are), but stave off sex as long as possible. If he/she is truly the right one, they'll wait as long as it takes. So in essence, in order to keep your logic hat on your head, you'll need to keep out of each others pants. Make sense? I know it sucks. Trust me on that one. I definitely would say my biggest weakness is the physical aspect. I love sex as much as much as anyone else. But I also realize that sex without a solid foundation will surely lead to heartbreak. As much as we wanna boink 'em, it's not worth it if the red flags are screaming at us at full throttle. And I think in the end, that is God's purpose for telling us not to be promiscuous.
Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 I'm not saying YOU are guilty of this (I think we all are), but stave off sex as long as possible. If he/she is truly the right one, they'll wait as long as it takes. No, I know I'm guilty of this. That said, I actually waited 12 dates with BF, and really did think I would have seen the red flags by then - but they didn't show themselves for another month or so. Guess that wasn't long enough.
Trimmer Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Damn, you guys are scaring me with all this needy, red flag, walk away, SAVE YOURSELF!!! stuff.... Just when I'm seeing the possibility of maybe dating again some day... The minute the red flags showed my guard went up. Also, I don't see walking away from this as a loss, but more or less one less person in the way of Ms Right Underpants refers to this as "weeding" (as in a garden.) Seems a good analogy. If you're in the medical field, think of it as a "preliminary screen." I seem to have lost my logic hat. I do recall owning one before though. How do I go about purchasing a new one? You have to knit your own. They don't fit as well if you just go buy one.
Author CaliGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Posted February 13, 2008 No, I know I'm guilty of this. That said, I actually waited 12 dates with BF, and really did think I would have seen the red flags by then - but they didn't show themselves for another month or so. Guess that wasn't long enough. Well pat yourself on the back then. 12 dates is a long time for most people. Heck a lot of people I know jump into the sack after 2-3 dates expecting the relationship to last a lifetime. It just doesn't work that way. Physical compatitability doesn't necessarily equal emotional compatibility. Too many people get those things mixed up. It's like saying "He looks good, I bet he's good in the sack." Looks can be deceiving and so can physical relationships where there's no foundation of mutual respect built. A house built on sand will topple in a storm. A house built on rock will stand the test of time. You'll be fine, SG as long as you look at the situation for what it is. Be glad you're out now instead of married and miserable later.
Author CaliGuy Posted February 13, 2008 Author Posted February 13, 2008 Underpants refers to this as "weeding" (as in a garden.) Seems a good analogy. If you're in the medical field, think of it as a "preliminary screen." Yep. Weed the bad ones out. Why would I want to give the goods away for free? LOL. I know I have a lot to offer Ms Right so there's no sense in giving it away to Ms. Wrong, that's fo'sho
CalamitousJane Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 No, I know I'm guilty of this. That said, I actually waited 12 dates with BF, and really did think I would have seen the red flags by then - but they didn't show themselves for another month or so. Guess that wasn't long enough. Are you sure they didn't show themselves? Think really hard. I remember the first moment I met my ex - he seemed really into me, but then after about 15 minutes of intense interaction, he suddenly spotted a friend of a friend across the room and left abruptly to go talk to him. I remember thinking - "wow, he's a little fickle, but he'll come back". That was the beginning of four years of him leaving abruptly without telling me when or whether he'd be back. The first time we actually went out together, he explained at great length why I shouldn't drive through potholes or shift before reaching 3000 rpm. I remember thinking "Well he's a little bossy, isn't he." That was the beginning of four years of him correcting me constantly. Later that night I spent three hours listening without talking while he told me all the details of a trip to Las Vegas. I remember thinking "Wow, he sure does have a lot to say." That was the beginning of four years of it always being about him. As much as we wanna boink 'em, it's not worth it if the red flags are screaming at us at full throttle I'm pretty sure I already see the edges of red flags about my Friday night date, just from what I know about the guy's history. Naturally I'm wildly turned on by him - I guess I like those bad boys. I'm thinking I'll offer him a choice - one-night-stand and no contact ever again, or just friends with never any hope of fooling around.
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