Guys and Monogamy

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

It's my belief that, at first, when in love, guys would also be all about monogamy. Then, as the relationship gets older, they'd revert back to wanting to have sex with other women and would, if their girl were ok with it.

In my experience, men "grow" to be monogamous, ie. talking about threesomes and etc. for the first few months, but upon learning to appreciate the relationship a few more months/years down the road, not needing someone/something else.

[Trimmer]

I totally agree with this. It's not fair to hold your partner to one set of standards while adhering to a different set for yourself. Now... if only reality could be fair!

This point I agree with absolutely.

 

What I find interesting is when I proposed an open relationship to my bf a few weeks ago (and later retracted), I told him he was free to have sex with whomever he wanted but he opted out. He said he didn't want to have sex with any other girls. My cynical side suspected it was because he didn't want ME sleeping with other guys.

Your cynical side? See that's my problem with your approach here... You tested him by offering to allow him to exhibit a behavior that you weren't actually comfortable with, and in considering all the possible consequences of that behavior, he declines. And you become cynical about that, and find it a double standard? Why not look at it in the positive sense, and consider him an evolved man who can control his desires after thoughtful consideration of the big picture? Isn't that something women would look for in a man?

 

My point remains, you would have a double standard he held out a standard that he expected of you (monogamy) which he chose not to adhere to himself. Here, though, he chose to adhere to the same standard of monogamy as he expects of you; where is the double standard? You're wringing your hands over what is in mens' inner nature, but while that may be a difference between men and women, it's not a double standard.

 

I will also say that if a partner "offers" an open relationship as a test, then gets cynical about the response, then it seems clear that it was not an offer made in good faith in the first place, so I don't consider that to be an open relationship as defined as: "when both partners consent."

 

So the QUESTION REMAINS: If offered an open relationship, would you go for it? Do you think more men would be willing to have an open relationship than women?

Would I? I might consider it, and it would have its attractions, but like shadowplay's boyfriend, once I considered all the possible ramifications and complications, I would probably make a choice that would override whatever titillating desire I felt, and decline.

 

But again, I stand on my point: shadowplay's original question also includes the proposition that this represents a double standard. I don't think that even if we accept the premise "more men would engage in a consensual open relationship than women" that this in itself represents a double standard, because we've firmly defined that we're talking about consensual relationships, where both partners agree on the standard. I ask again: where is the double standard?

 

That comes in when you expect one standard (monogamy) and exhibit a different behavior, and that's called cheating, not an "open relationship."

[oppath]

What I find interesting is when I proposed an open relationship to my bf a few weeks ago (and later retracted), I told him he was free to have sex with whomever he wanted but he opted out. He said he didn't want to have sex with any other girls. My cynical side suspected it was because he didn't want ME sleeping with other guys.

 

But again, I stand on my point: shadowplay's original question also includes the proposition that this represents a double standard. I don't think that even if we accept the premise "more men would engage in a consensual open relationship than women" that this in itself represents a double standard, because we've firmly defined that we're talking about consensual relationships, where both partners agree on the standard. I ask again: where is the double standard?

 

That comes in when you expect one standard (monogamy) and exhibit a different behavior, and that's called cheating, not an "open relationship."

 

Shadowplay, the problem I see with your question is that you led your boyfriend on to believe that you wanted a standard, a monogamous committed relationship, and then flipped the script and suggested an open relationship. Even if your boyfriend consented, I would argue that given a sudden proposition like that, one that you had been thinking of in advance and essentially lining up the guy (his friend no less), a sudden change in the definition of your relationship, such consent is not lucid nor rational.

 

Furthermore, I think you proposed it (1) to test your boyfriend, which is hardly genuine and loving, two traits of an open relationship and (2) I really think if it had worked out, that you would have left your boyfriend to be with his friend. Your flirtation with the friend, in my opinion, was already too far and not completely transparent to your boyfriend, and I really believe that had it not blown up, had you somehow casually dated your boyfriends friend and liked him, that you would have dumped your boyfriend for his friend.

 

Genuine open relationships still have transparency, no ulterior motives, and are full of love and trust. I don't think suddenly changing the nature of your relationship from a committed, monogamous one, to an open relationship is genuine and I don't feel one can rationally consent given the emotions invested (and your intentions).

 

If you and your boyfriend had long philosophical discussions about monogamy and how you both don't believe it's possible or in peoples' best interest, then proposing it would be ok. But you lined up your target of interest BEFORE having such conversations, and you were wavering in your commitment and love for your boyfriend. If your love and commitment to your boyfriend were solid, and you talked about fundamental nature of monogamy, and were in agreement in those values, it would have been different. You were wavering.

 

Additionally, even being in an open relationship means you treat your primary partner in a way that benefits his/her general welfare. Your choice in one of his best friends, really would not be in his general welfare. And you weren't thinking about an open relationship until you met his friend and developed a crush. That really suggests that this was not about an open relationship; you just didn't want to be a bad person by cheating. If it were about open relationships, I think you would have communicated to your boyfriend BEFORE this other guy was in the picture that at times, you questioned whether monogamy was a valid system in a modern society.

Edited February 12, 2008 by oppath

[Pyro]

So the QUESTION REMAINS: If offered an open relationship, would you go for it? Do you think more men would be willing to have an open relationship than women?

 

I wouldn't. To me there is no point in being in a relationship if you want to have sex with multiple people. If I want to have sex with numerous people, then I wouldn't be in a relationship.

 

From what I have seen and heard, I do think that men would be more willing to try it then women.

[blackbird]

So the QUESTION REMAINS: If offered an open relationship, would you go for it? Do you think more men would be willing to have an open relationship than women?

 

Depends on what is meant by an 'open relationship', doesn't it? Is it just sex, or more than just sex? Does the OP want to clarify?

 

I think more men would be willing to have an open relationship that was about getting sex (variety) outside of the relationship only, no emotional attachments, just sex, if their SO was honestly cool with that. I don't know if women have the same craving for sexual variety. I think generally not, at least not as frequently, but I can't speak for all women.

 

Most guys are better at compartmentalizing love and sex than most women, IME. So they could easily have a deep, committed relationship with one person, but still have sex with someone else and not have that affect their first relationship. Not saying that they always will, or have to, or wish to, just that they CAN.

 

I don't think more men would want an open relationship if it wasn't just about sex with other people, but having emotional connections to those people as well. That seems to feel more threatening to the relationship. As a woman, I would feel personally more comfortable with opening things up with emotional connection, but I would turn down an open relationship that was only about sex with strangers. I'm turned on by sex with people I care about far more than I'm turned on by sex with strangers (which is not much at all, certainly not worth opening up a relationship for).

[Trimmer]

Shadowplay, the problem I see with your question is that you led your boyfriend on to believe that you wanted a standard, a monogamous committed relationship, and then flipped the script and suggested an open relationship. Even if your boyfriend consented, I would argue that given a sudden proposition like that, one that you had been thinking of in advance and essentially lining up the guy (his friend no less), a sudden change in the definition of your relationship, such consent is not lucid nor rational.

 

Furthermore, I think you proposed it (1) to test your boyfriend, which is hardly genuine and loving, two traits of an open relationship and (2) I really think if it had worked out, that you would have left your boyfriend to be with his friend. Your flirtation with the friend, in my opinion, was already too far and not completely transparent to your boyfriend...

 

I must have missed that thread, because I was not aware of this background...

 

Shadowplay - I'm going to ask something that may sound like I'm poking at you or putting you on the spot, but I really just want to understand your feelings, and this background information gives me a new perspective... Is your difficulty that you feel like if you told "most men" that they could go out and have an open relationship - essentially for their exploration - that they would be glad to agree, but when you asked your man to have an open relationship, that you think he didn't agree because it was essentially for your exploration, and that's where you believe the double standard is?

 

Or did he not know that you were considering "exploring" when you offered it to him? I should probably go back and read some threads....

[oppath]

I'm not meaning to come down on you Shadowplay, so I apologize if it came off that way. I just don't think your question is a general question.

 

I think in your case, you were NOT proposing an open relationship. You doubted your love for your boyfriend and if he was truly the right person for you. You developed a crush on his friend. You wanted to explore it.

 

I think in a true open relationship, you would not have been doubting your love for your boyfriend, you would have been convicted that you wanted him in your life in the future, but you didn't believe in denying attraction to other people and desired sexual variety. If one of the reason for an open relationship is to test the waters with another option to see if he/she might be a better partner than your current bf/gf, that is NOT an open relationship as I understand it. Open relationships are when you are committed and in love with your current partner and you imagine them staying in your life, not because you doubt if they are right for you. Most of the classic open relationship literature from anarchists like Emma Goldman, and even the virtue of selfishness of Ayn Rand (who had a ****ed up relationship where she did not abide by her teachings) are of the opinion that you can love and experience intimacy with others, but it lacks integrity if you are doing it out of doubt for your primary partner.

[shadowofman]

To answer the OP, yes I would enter into an open relationship if one was offered. All of my previous relationships were open and that is my preference. My wife has had her end of the relationship open since the beginning, though she is not interested in using this freedom. I cannot in good conscious tell someone that I love that they can't do something like have sex with someone they are attracted to, and therefore I find possession of a person immoral (personally immoral). I also don't feel very good knowing that I am the possession of her, but I accept it because I love her and I don't want to hurt her. This is a condition of much stress to me.

 

I think that suggesting an open relationship in the beginning of a relationship is a very good way of discovering the sexual orientations of a potential partner. No sense getting involved with a someone that wants thressomes if you are monogamous and possessive. You will only be stifling their sexuality. Best to find someone with no interest in that sort of thing, like yourself.

[oppath]

But shadowofman,

 

you don't engage with other women because you doubt your love for your wife. You are not wavering on your love; you want her in your life in the future. By marrying her, you still want a lifelong commitment to her (I assume).

 

When Shadowplay referenced proposing an open relationship with her boyfriend, she was questioning her love and commitment for him. If proposed an open relationship to your wife BECAUSE you doubted your love for her, and you wanted to see what else was out there, would that really be an open relationship?

 

If a woman I was committed to in a traditional, exclusive monogamous relationship suddenly proposed an open relationship, I would be suspect of her intentions. If we had discussed in length and agreed that we don't believe in possessing someone and we agreed monogamy was not viable or a healthy idea, even if one of us chose NOT to sleep with others, it would be fine. But if I asked my gf for an open relationship because I was doubting my relationship with her and I wanted to explore a potentially better deal, I think that is not love. I don't think that is an open relationship. I think it is manipulative.

[mental_traveller]

To answer the OP, yes I would enter into an open relationship if one was offered. All of my previous relationships were open and that is my preference. My wife has had her end of the relationship open since the beginning, though she is not interested in using this freedom. I cannot in good conscious tell someone that I love that they can't do something like have sex with someone they are attracted to, and therefore I find possession of a person immoral (personally immoral). I also don't feel very good knowing that I am the possession of her, but I accept it because I love her and I don't want to hurt her. This is a condition of much stress to me.

 

 

Why does you say that someone becomes the possession of another, just by being expected to be monogamous?

[cutegirl]

Underpants, I'm confused by your post. Are you saying you test bfs by offering them the option of an open relationship and then you dump them if they accept?

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's what she means.

 

I do this too. It's supposed to be a TEST, even though I want the guy to be faithful I would throw it out there "If you want to be with other people, just let me know", it's to fish out his true nature or to find out his true intentions.

 

It's a common practice. People do this all the time.

 

For example, my ex is a jealous person and he would NEVER want me to be with another guy, but he would test me by saying : "If you want to have sex with other guys just let me know"... etc

 

Both males and females do this... I see this a lot actually. It can be considered manipulative or whatever but it's only to find out how someone REALLY is on the inside so you don't get hurt.

[MakeLemonade]

I'm pretty sure that's what she means.

 

I do this too. It's supposed to be a TEST, even though I want the guy to be faithful I would throw it out there "If you want to be with other people, just let me know", it's to fish out his true nature or to find out his true intentions.

 

It's a common practice. People do this all the time.

 

For example, my ex is a jealous person and he would NEVER want me to be with another guy, but he would test me by saying : "If you want to have sex with other guys just let me know"... etc

 

Both males and females do this... I see this a lot actually. It can be considered manipulative or whatever but it's only to find out how someone REALLY is on the inside so you don't get hurt.

 

It may be common but that doesn't mean it isn't manipulative. Manipulation like this is in essence lying. I hear people saying "I would NEVER lie to my H/W/SO" but if you subscribe to the above philosophy, when you came out with the false "offer"? You were lying. If you don't have the guts to take the possible pain the comes from being in an honest committed relationship and have to cheat ahead to see the future, you should just date until you do. It seems everyone wants monogamy even if they have to manipulate their significant other to make sure that they get it.

[Florida]

It may be common but that doesn't mean it isn't manipulative. Manipulation like this is in essence lying. I hear people saying "I would NEVER lie to my H/W/SO" but if you subscribe to the above philosophy, when you came out with the false "offer"? You were lying. If you don't have the guts to take the possible pain the comes from being in an honest committed relationship and have to cheat ahead to see the future, you should just date until you do. It seems everyone wants monogamy even if they have to manipulate their significant other to make sure that they get it.

 

This sounds interesting, I kind of get what you are saying.

Except this part:" It seems everyone wants monogamy even if they have to manipulate their significant other to make sure that they get it."

 

I se that as testing, hopefully not manipulating. But I am genuinely curious to understand your view on how it is manipulating the partner to get monogamy.

 

Because if anything it seems that the door is being left open so no one feels forced into anything they did not clearly choose?

[MakeLemonade]

This sounds interesting, I kind of get what you are saying.

Except this part:" It seems everyone wants monogamy even if they have to manipulate their significant other to make sure that they get it."

 

I see that as testing, hopefully not manipulating. But I am genuinely curious to understand your view on how it is manipulating the partner to get monogamy.

 

Because if anything it seems that the door is being left open so no one feels forced into anything they did not clearly choose?

 

If it truly were a door left open, I can see it not being manipulative.

 

But in the ways I have seen it written, it was presented to the SO as an option while remaining with their current partner, as in an option to open up the relationship. If it were stated as what it truly was, which is "you always have the option to see/sleep with other people but if you choose that option I am outta here, I really just want to see if you want to be with me and just me or not." Now that would be honest. That is a crucial part of the scenario being intentionally left out, therein lies the manipulation/lie whatever you want to call it.

 

Now if you were to say THAT to your SO, it would sound really stupid and crazy, which is why I said if you don't have the courage to accept the potential for pain in a relationship, don't manipulate - just date. It's really not a very fair practice.

 

I should also disclose that I hate tests & traps in relationships of any kind, my husband has done it to me in the past and I HATE it (even though I passed). So I am a little biased too I guess.

 

As for the other part, maybe I should have said manipulation to ENSURE PROBABLE monogamy rather than GET monogamy. I apologize - I think that makes more sense and is more in line with what I was actually thinking. Sorry for any confusion.

[Florida]

If it were stated as what it truly was, which is "you always have the option to see/sleep with other people but if you choose that option I am outta here, I really just want to see if you want to be with me and just me or not." Now that would be honest.

 

Yeah, you're right-that is what is realy meant, but no one can come ut and say *that* because it looks like the complete lack of faith in the other partner, which in fact, it is, but just trying to make it look like it's not.

 

Because no one wants to be told "I don't trust you, therefore I'm testing you"

 

I understand where it is coming from. I'm not putting it down. Sounds like you were on the recieving end and you felt manipulated, or not trusted? I suppose that didn't make you feel the way the comment was supposed to make him feel (trust inspiring if you answered "no").

[Trimmer]

Now if you were to say THAT to your SO, it would sound really stupid and crazy, which is why I said if you don't have the courage to accept the potential for pain in a relationship, don't manipulate - just date. It's really not a very fair practice.

 

I should also disclose that I hate tests & traps in relationships of any kind, my husband has done it to me in the past and I HATE it (even though I passed). So I am a little biased too I guess.

I agree with Lemonade.

 

If the one being tested says "Oh, great, I'd love to have an open relationship", then the tester "wins," in that he/she discovers a deal-stopper that might not have been uncovered otherwise, and if it's a deal-stopper, then who cares about the deception if the relationship is doomed anyway.

 

However, the other outcome has more subtle problems.

 

In the case where the one being tested realizes that a test is occurring, the test becomes invalid and inconclusive and the feelings of the one being tested are eroded by a lack of trust due to the deception perpetrated. The realization that it was a test may or may not be brought to light; either way, it either becomes a source of contention immediately, or it festers and rots inside until some later time.

 

On the other hand, if the one being tested "falls for it" and does not realize a test is occurring, but still declines the offer, wishing to continue on in a monogamous relationship, then all is still not well. Now the monogamous person (the one being tested) believes that his/her partner (the tester) IS amenable to an open relationship, which is just the opposite of the truth, and which certainly has to alter the dynamic of a relationship, at least a little bit. Again, this realization may or may not be brought to light. If it is, then things may collapse back to the first case ("I was just testing you" and the associated immediate trust blowup...), or it may again fester inside until it eventually tweaks the relationship dynamic in some unpredictable way.

 

The downsides may seem subtle, but I believe they are seeds of deception planted that could eventually spawn more significant problems - or factor into other problems at a later date.

[shadowofman]

Why does you say that someone becomes the possession of another, just by being expected to be monogamous?

 

"To have, and to hold" is a cornerstone of monogamy. Possessive is not a bad word if you are mongamous.

 

This manipulative test is the only way one could possibly find out the true promiscuous orientation of a partner. Unfortunately, in our culture, promiscuously oriented people either hide their natures or lie to themselves about thier natures. This is because promiscuity is demonized by our culture.

 

Sure the test can plant seeds of deception, but the tester should immediately reveil the test afterward. Or at least express their monogamous needs immediately afterward.

[StartingOver07]

Aside from the fact that the test seems offensive and manipulaive, it also seems highly unlikely that the testee won't realise s/he is being tested.

 

When men have said this to me -- "If you want to be with other people, just let me know" -- it is typically quite clear that this is not what they want, and that in spite of their breezy tones, it would not be ok to reply in the affirmative. I am not likely to respond well to this sort of test as I do not like being manipulated. Nor do I like the "lie" that underpins the question -- it's being presented as though it would be fine for me to say, yes, let's date others, but in fact, this is not the case. In any event, this sort of test brings out the worst in me.

 

Conversely, if a man said he cared about me and wanted to be exclusive with me and did I feel the same way, then I am far more likely to give him an honest assessment of how I feel. I have far more respect for someone who deal s with my openly and honestly than I do for someone who attempts to outsmart me.

[MakeLemonade]

Aside from the fact that the test seems offensive and manipulaive, it also seems highly unlikely that the testee won't realise s/he is being tested.

 

When men have said this to me -- "If you want to be with other people, just let me know" -- it is typically quite clear that this is not what they want, and that in spite of their breezy tones, it would not be ok to reply in the affirmative. I am not likely to respond well to this sort of test as I do not like being manipulated. Nor do I like the "lie" that underpins the question -- it's being presented as though it would be fine for me to say, yes, let's date others, but in fact, this is not the case. In any event, this sort of test brings out the worst in me.

 

Conversely, if a man said he cared about me and wanted to be exclusive with me and did I feel the same way, then I am far more likely to give him an honest assessment of how I feel. I have far more respect for someone who deal s with my openly and honestly than I do for someone who attempts to outsmart me.

 

And really, anyone who thinks I am stupid enough to fall for an obvious test like that? Really doesn't know me well enough to be in a position to be asking for that kind of relationship with me in the first place.

 

I think you have a far better chance of getting monogamy out of a man or a woman by being honest, and giving respect - therefore hopefully getting it. Than any test, trick or other manipulation. Monogamy is not the nature of man or any other animal for that matter. But in a respectful loving relationship it is given, freely and with a joyous heart because one wants to be with the other so much, that they forsake that nature (especially on the part of men) to commit fully to and to become one with the one they love.

 

A little flowery I know, happy V-Day!

[peace_pipe]

Am I right in concuding that most guys would be in open relationships if they could, and women are the main force keeping exclusive relationships the status quo in our society?

 

"Open" relationships are just that to me...

 

Open to drama...

Open to love triangles...

Open to one person getting hurt...

 

I don't need sex that bad.

[Trimmer]

When men have said this to me -- "If you want to be with other people, just let me know" -- it is typically quite clear that this is not what they want, and that in spite of their breezy tones, it would not be ok to reply in the affirmative. I am not likely to respond well to this sort of test as I do not like being manipulated. Nor do I like the "lie" that underpins the question -- it's being presented as though it would be fine for me to say, yes, let's date others, but in fact, this is not the case. In any event, this sort of test brings out the worst in me.

In fact, what is used as a "test" by the tester ends up being perceived as a "trap" by the testee... Then wouldn't you tend to look at other interactions later in the relationship, thinking "OK, where's the trap in this one?"

 

Conversely, if a man said he cared about me and wanted to be exclusive with me and did I feel the same way, then I am far more likely to give him an honest assessment of how I feel. I have far more respect for someone who deal s with my openly and honestly than I do for someone who attempts to outsmart me.

 

If a partner is the kind of person who would deceive you in a direct, honest discussion (thus prompting "the test" to learn "the truth"), then he/she would probably see the trap coming and respond equally deceptively.

 

The kind of partner that would respond to "the test" honestly would probably respond just as honestly to a frank, heart-to-heart discussion.

[StartingOver07]

The kind of partner that would respond to "the test" honestly would probably respond just as honestly to a frank, heart-to-heart discussion.

 

Agreed. But the inverse is not necessarily true.

 

When I've been tested, I don't respond dishonestly, but I tend to turn the question back on the tester: "Really? You think it would be ok if we dated other people?" Or "Is that what you want?"

 

Whereas if someone honestly asks me where my heart is, I will tell him. Or I will have let him know unprompted beforehand.

[starrynight]

Am I right in concuding that most guys would be in open relationships if they could,

 

No, they want to have sex with multiple women; different thing. From that, some do want open relationships (or cheat), but it ultimately stems from the sex drive.

 

and women are the main force keeping exclusive relationships the status quo in our society?

That's not true either, as I see it. Women have long sought out multiple emotional relationships, while keeping their sex drive on one. Of course as with men, sometimes this emotional desire for many leads to wanting to opn things up (or cheating).

 

Think of the stereotypes that have existed for years: Girls are emotional and feeling sharing (not that guys can't be), guys are visually stimulated and wired to crave bonking many a lass (not that girls can't also enjoy such a mindstate). So girls (stereotypically) want more emotional partners and guys more sex partners. There are always variants of course, but as a whole and in my experience, that pretty much fits.

 

For guys reading this: if you were in love with a girl would you still want to have sex with other women if your girlfriend was cool with it?

What do you mean by would a man want to? Do you mean they recognize the primal desire in themselves? Do you mean they actively seek it? Do you mean they do it just if it came upon them? Also, what do you mean by "cool". Do you mean the girlfriend says "ok do it" but still has problems? Do you mean she has no problems but no excitement? Do you mean she's excited about it happening and discussing it? Does it mean she's doing it too?

 

Or does your desire to spread your seed fizzle when you become attached to one woman?

No, it does not. It does lessen, certainly, but the desire is still there, because that is how men are programmed. The desire, however, can be recognized for what it is: simple primal programming. We are much more than our primal selves.

I suspect there's a double standard where guys aren't cool with their girlfriends sleeping with other men, but they would eagerly screw around on their girlfriends if it were acceptable to do so.

There are double standards everywhere in the male/female arena. Certainly a guy feels a desire to bonk as many women as he can (spread the seed programming) but doesn't wish to have those he has bonked receive other seed (reproductive programming). ie as far as innate primal programming goes. But we show every day (as societies and individuals) that we are much more than our simple primal programming. ie any guy/girl who acts off those double standards that come from primal programming influencing emotion is not being very cool or fair in a relationship, as I see it.

 

By acceptable I mean that guilt weren't a factor.

 

What do you mean if guilt weren't a factor? Do you mean if they didn't feel guilt for cheating on their lady? Or that there was no guilt to be felt, ie they did such openly and without lying/cheating around. Because really either way, that could be said of any gender in many a situation.

Edited February 14, 2008 by starrynight

[starrynight]

I'm pretty sure that's what she means.

 

I do this too. It's supposed to be a TEST, even though I want the guy to be faithful I would throw it out there "If you want to be with other people, just let me know", it's to fish out his true nature or to find out his true intentions.

 

It's a common practice. People do this all the time.

 

For example, my ex is a jealous person and he would NEVER want me to be with another guy, but he would test me by saying : "If you want to have sex with other guys just let me know"... etc

 

Both males and females do this... I see this a lot actually. It can be considered manipulative or whatever but it's only to find out how someone REALLY is on the inside so you don't get hurt.

 

I hate to sound like a parent, but just because everyone else does it means you should too?

 

Seriously, I would be appalled if someone I dated ever pulled this with me. If we were dating, and you did this, don't worry, you would have failed my "test" too.

 

For what you are not taking into account is that not every person thinks they know everything about life at every given instance. Sure, it's rare. Not many people do it often, and just not many people do it. But say you run into that person... he hadn't thought of it being something that was more important than love, but when his love says "hey, let me know if you want to try this" he starts thinking about it as something that either his love has an interest in or is curious about or somesuch.

 

Now, again, males -ALL MALES-have a constant primal desire to boink many women. What is different is how much they allow that into their personal lives. When YOU give him the push to start thinking of it... if he then comes back and says something akin to "sure, let's try this thing you've brought up"... for you to come back with "well, I didn't really mean it"... you've screwed the relationship yourself. Perhaps they wouldn't even have considered it as possible until you suggested it. Perhaps they were trusting that you would be honest and being open to questioning something they might not have been interested in actualizing otherwise.

 

Meaning you shouldn't suggest things you think the opposite of, for you just might make them happen when they wouldn't otherwise have done.

 

Also meaning, you should be able to find out such things by communication. If you can't/don't want to try, or don't believe them when you both do, your relationship is screwed anyway.

[Phateless]

Agreed. Giving guys "tests" that they're not aware of is the stupidest thing I can possibly think of and is the most basic form of relationship suicide. If this is your idea of a relationship, you aren't mature enough to be in one at all.

 

As far as monogamy goes... that's why I've been staying single right now. I want to find the girl who makes me want to avoid every other girl, because she's so amazing. I want to find the girl that blows my mind so that when I meet another girl, all I can think of is how she just doesn't measure up to my gf. So I'm staying single until I meet the one that's worth it.