Sending Flowers to the (recent) ex?

[g1976b]

All of the delivery information is filled out. 2 dozen roses sent to her work. All I need to do is hit send, but I'm hopping on here first to clear my mind. I'll give it overnight.

 

We will have been broken up for nearly a month by Valentine's Day. We still love one another and care about one another. She needs space however, and has said she cannot even consider dating me for a few months. She has moved out.

 

I fear that she may now becoming interested in other guys, and we have been going through a modified NC deal for the last couple of weeks. She come over to get more of her things last week and I pushed her a little more. She's very angry with me for the 'controlling, jealousy' stuff and how she changed so many things about herself 'for me'.

 

I really want to send the flowers. I've sent her flowers before and she really has appreciated them. I know she needs time and space, but it's Valentine's Day and I'd love for her to know that I'm thinking about her and I care about her.

 

Clearly I'm going to get many opinions along the lines of "don't do it" or "stick with NC" or "save the money"...but do you really think it stands to do any more HARM?

[dfreeman]

Clearly I'm going to get many opinions along the lines of "don't do it" or "stick with NC" or "save the money"...but do you really think it stands to do any more HARM?

 

I feel so strongly about this subject that it is hard to even refer to what I am about to say as an "opinion", but here it is (not so humbly, I'm sure)...

 

When someone moves out AND asks for space, anything you do to contact them on a personal level (does not pertain to obligations like kids, financial matters, etc.) is considered a violation of that request. The person who is supposed to be giving them space, then feels 100% shut-out (substitute forgotten, pushed aside, etc.) and tries to find loopholes to get around the concept of giving space - ENTER special days and the king of all special days, Valentines Day!

 

At first glance, Valentine's Day seems like the perfect hole in even the strongest self-imposed no contact pacts - for crying out loud, men have been programmed to feel like utter sh[beep]t if we somehow fail to make her friggin head explode on the 14th! If you don't think it through, you might start to feel that she will be upset with you if you don't send her something special to show her how much you still love her. If you do think it through, you will see that all you'll be doing is sending her a big fat crappy reminder of a person that she is not in love with right now.

 

If you do send her anything after she moved out on you and asked for space, you will look like a sap and she will lose some respect for you from it. Above all other things, women bitch about men not listening to them - she wants space and nothing sucks up space like unwanted flowers from an ex boyfriend. If you are ever afraid of this backfiring on you (her getting angry or hurt later), you can just tell her that you held her request for space in the highest regard and fought the urge to send something out of true love and respect for her wishes (trust me - I have my excuses all ready loaded up and I ain't sending my ex sh[beep]t on Thursday!).

 

Okay, now to the last little scheme that starts to run through your brain after you are 100% sure that you are not going to send her anything nice (jewelry, roses, Victoria Secret crap, chocolate, etc.) - the little phone call, note, text message or e-mail JUST TO LET HER KNOW THAT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT HER ON VALENTINE'S DAY. DON'T FREAKIN DO IT - unless you came to LS because you just got dumped by a retard, she already knows that you are thinking about her on Valentine's Day. The only difference is that now she will also know that you have a pair and a nice helping of self-respect to go along with them. Plus, she will appreciate not being hit with a little guilt token reminder that she is causing somebody heartache on F'n "Love Day".

 

Whatever you do during this time, I wish you well and hope your pain ends soon!

[prisonbreak]

V-day is a day to make a huge statement. What do you want that statement to be? I agree 100% with dfreeman. It sends a message loud and clear, that you are giving her what she asked for. All other days go by with NC, but this day is THE day for it to make the most impact. Too me, having NC on V-day is equal to 17 regular, consecutive days. I know he won't contact me on V-day either, and that's going to be a loud statement from him. I kind of don't want to hear from him, it'll be hard, but he'll be doing me a big favor in the end. I know your situation is way different than mine, because she asked for space. Give it too her. If you send the flowers, you are doing it for yourself, not for her. She already told you what she wants. Your afraid of losing her, well for the time being, you have lost her, but a bunch of roses isn't going to change someone's mind. Do you really think she's going to get them and think, "he's so sweet, maybe I should reconsider". No, women don't work that way. Silence speaks louder than roses.

[dropdeadlegs]

I can only speak for myself, but I HATED the gifts and flowers sent by my ex once I left.

 

It was all "too little, too late" for me. I resented every delivery and gave the flowers away. My ex didn't send much of anything during the marriage and trying to woo me back with romantic crap didn't impress me at all.

[Mustang Sally]

I would say "don't."

Just my opinion.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[g1976b]

Hmmm, seems like you all are trying to send me a message. :-) Now if I can get myself to listen!

 

dfree....man, you're really not pulling punches, are you? I respect that. You really got down to what I was thinking. It's a special day and I thought I could make an exception for contact to show my feelings. Bottom line is, like you said, she knows how I feel. If/when it makes a difference to her, she'll let me know. A bunch of roses probably isn't going to change things.

 

prisonbreak, I loved your "statement" analogy. I do want to make a statement. Truth be told, I was toning DOWN what I would like to do. I want to make some huge grandiose gesture that she "can't possibly" reject. But, if I do love her I suppose I need to show her I love her by giving her what she truly is asking for and apparently needs.

 

dropdeadlegs, can I ask you a question? Did you break it off with your ex? If so, was there ANYTHING he could do to help you reconsider? The reason I ask is that I'm running into a bit of the "too little, too late" thing. I've written out a 12 page (double sided) letter apologizing and pointing out areas where I've messed up in our relationship, and why I now realize it and what I'm doing about it. She has said she thinks it's very thoughtful and heartfelt, but also that it doesn't change anything "right now". I know you can't know for sure, but I'm wondering if she is just saying things like she needs time and doesn't know about the future for sure because she's being nice or because she maybe truly doesn't know.

 

Finally, to everyone else....here's what else is going through my head. If I'm going to go down, I want to go down "swinging". I want to know I've done absolutely EVERYTHING I can to fight for this. Again, this could be flawed logic, but I'm trying to be open about what I'm feeling.

[Star Gazer]

Finally, to everyone else....here's what else is going through my head. If I'm going to go down, I want to go down "swinging". I want to know I've done absolutely EVERYTHING I can to fight for this. Again, this could be flawed logic, but I'm trying to be open about what I'm feeling.

 

I know how you feel, I'm there right now. I'd go against the grain - and against probably my better judgment - and say to send the flowers. Make as grand a gesture as possible.

[dfreeman]

It was all "too little, too late" for me. I resented every delivery and gave the flowers away. My ex didn't send much of anything during the marriage and trying to woo me back with romantic crap didn't impress me at all.

 

Nothing like spending a hundred bucks on some good ol' fashioned resentment!!!

 

Great post ddl, but even if flowers were your thing during the relationship - still a good idea to cut them out on Valentine's Day after a breakup - No?

 

I have tons of girl friends and every single one of them agrees with ddl, cept they use words like weak, pathetic, stubborn, control-freak and low self-esteem.

 

I see no upside to sending gifts to a woman that left you (or even in my case where the breakup was mutual) - when else are you going to get 17 days of NC for the price of one?

[dropdeadlegs]

I guess I broke it off, but it was based on an event he initiated that was completely unexpected and out of left field. I really had no choice BUT to break it off. My marriage had problems, but it was over "overnight."

 

He tried to make up for that with all kinds of gift deliveries to my office. Tons of flowers, a diamond bracelet, gift basket assortments. It was nuts.

 

My first H made similar overtures, but only a two flower deliveries.

 

I'm one of those people that who can't be "bought back." When it's over, it's over.

 

If you want to make an overture, I think a better choice would be to send flowers, not roses, and send them Wednesday instead of Thursday. The note should read something like "thinking of you." Do not follow up with an email, phone call, or text message. If she does not respond, follow her lead and continue the modified NC you have been doing.

 

I'm all about going down swinging, but a better way to show that is through changing the behavior that caused the break up and accepting that it will take time for her to believe in the change. Show her you want to win her back by doing something about the "controlling, jealous" behavior. Read a book, see a counselor, show her something constructive. Something that will last much longer than a bouquet of flowers.

[Mustang Sally]

Absolutely, DDL.

Very well said.

[dfreeman]

Bottom line is, like you said, she knows how I feel. If/when it makes a difference to her, she'll let me know. A bunch of roses probably isn't going to change things.

Oh, they will change things...just not in the way you want them to

 

prisonbreak, I loved your "statement" analogy. I do want to make a statement. Truth be told, I was toning DOWN what I would like to do. I want to make some huge grandiose gesture that she "can't possibly" reject.

I got one...the biggest gesture that I can think of is sending nothing - ya can't reject something that ain't there!

 

Sorry to be harsh, but I am basically being a jerk and purposefully ignoring the other side of the argument to make a point and hopefully open your eyes to the opportunity sitting right in front of you. 99.9% of the men in your situation would make some big effort to win her back and see that day as their biggest and best chance to pull it off - I'

m

just hoping that you can find the strength to be different and make a REAL splash. I can just picture her sitting around drinkin a cosmo with her friends and saying something like, "I was actually fairly pleasantly surprised, but rather pleased not to get anything from ###### on Valentine's Day - I didn't think he had it in him to be

so

considerate of my space on that day"

 

Sounds a lot nicer than her and a bunch of friends laughing their asses off at your expense.

 

I don't mean to make it sound hopeless and I don't know this particular gal, but I have more female friends than most guys and they all see it this way. If you truly feel that sending is better than not sending, then fire away - just don't be surprised if she sees it as a last ditch effort by you to not be forgotten about on Valentine's Day.

 

dropdeadlegs, can I ask you a question? Did you break it off with your ex? If so, was there ANYTHING he could do to help you reconsider? The reason I ask is that I'm running into a bit of the "too little, too late" thing. I've written out a 12 page (double sided) letter apologizing and pointing out areas where I've messed up in our relationship, and why I now realize it and what I'm doing about it.

Not to switch sides on you here g, but if the letter of sh[beep]t you messed up during the relationship is 12 pages long, you might want to send 10 dozen roses

 

Be good to yourself my friend and know that nobody on here is going to kick you when you're down - own your actions and do what you think is best considering all input. In the two weeks since I found LS, posting/reading this thing has been my number one source of strength and support (after my two best friends of course).

[g1976b]

I couldn't agree more DDL. I have been doing those things. It's such a 'catch-22' though. I've already read 3 books, I'm seeing a counselor, and I am going back to friends and family in my life where my behavior has spilled over and affected those relationships. I'm talking to them, taking responsibility for my actions/behavior, apologizing, and vowing to turn things around. Now, many have said that it wasn't 'that bad' and some don't even know what I'm talking about, but at this point, I don't ever want something like this to cause me to lose someone I love.

 

Unfortunately, my ex knows of all of these things but is still hesitant to believe that I "get it" now and that I'm truly changing. That's a tough spot to be. Right now they're just words, but because she's asking for space, I can't give her anything but words...so there is no way to SHOW her. Very frustrating.

 

So I come back to the flowers vs. no flowers. Will I always wonder 'what if' I had sent the flowers? Will I make things worse and have her think I'm still controlling by sending them? You're right dfree, who wants to drop a wad of cash on resentment? I'd hate to have the flowers end up being the 'last straw' and have her think that I'm just never going to get it. Urghhh, life would have been so much easier if I hadn't been such a jack*ss! Why did it take THIS for me to finally wake up?!

[dfreeman]

I'm all about going down swinging, but a better way to show that is through changing the behavior that caused the break up and accepting that it will take time for her to believe in the change. Show her you want to win her back by doing something about the "controlling, jealous" behavior. Read a book, see a counselor, show her something constructive. Something that will last much longer than a bouquet of flowers.

 

Those are simply beautiful words!!!

 

I am not really in "get the girl back" mode, but if I were, I'd definitely start my thinking here!

[dfreeman]

I couldn't agree more DDL. I have been doing those things. It's such a 'catch-22' though. I've already read 3 books, I'm seeing a counselor, and I am going back to friends and family in my life where my behavior has spilled over and affected those relationships. I'm talking to them, taking responsibility for my actions/behavior, apologizing, and vowing to turn things around. Now, many have said that it wasn't 'that bad' and some don't even know what I'm talking about, but at this point, I don't ever want something like this to cause me to lose someone I love.

 

Unfortunately, my ex knows of all of these things but is still hesitant to believe that I "get it" now and that I'm truly changing. That's a tough spot to be. Right now they're just words, but because she's asking for space, I can't give her anything but words...so there is no way to SHOW her. Very frustrating.

 

So I come back to the flowers vs. no flowers. Will I always wonder 'what if' I had sent the flowers? Will I make things worse and have her think I'm still controlling by sending them? You're right dfree, who wants to drop a wad of cash on resentment? I'd hate to have the flowers end up being the 'last straw' and have her think that I'm just never going to get it. Urghhh, life would have been so much easier if I hadn't been such a jack*ss! Why did it take THIS for me to finally wake up?!

 

 

g,

 

Right now, what your ex, your family and your friends are seeing is you scrambling - nothing wrong with it, but to them, that's what it seems like. They see you in rally mode and that time is normally wrought with a lot of exciting talk that hopefully precedes a lot of action to back it up. Interestingly enough, they will only start to see the actions when the talking stops.

 

So, what is your next step?

 

You have already vowed to turn things around, so stop apologizing (assuming you have already done enough) and continue turning things around in your life. The first, second, last and hardest thing for you to do at such a difficult time is to stop trying to control the people and situations around you.

 

From the sound of things, your friends and family were not that adversely affected by your behavior and seem to have already forgiven you. Just as with the whole Val Day flowers issue, it might be time to talk less about your self-work and just let them witness the results (I was totally quiet about my trips to the gym and my friends can't shut-up about how great I look since they saw me a few months ago). As far as your behavior in future relationships go, concentrate on healing from this one and worry about the next one (or next try with current ex) later.

 

Things will be a little different (and sorry to say, much more difficult) with your ex. She also knows that you are in rally mode, but for her it is much more evident because you are scrambling in her direction and she knows that she is the prize. Unfortunately, most of the work you do on yourself will have to go unseen by her. It doesn't take too bright a girl to notice that you are doing three weeks of work only to rush over and give her a progress report. So, obviously no more talking with her about the positive changes you are making in your life - if she sees any changes in you, you have to be content with simply thanking her for noticing and moving the conversation elsewhere (this is a great space giving gesture).

 

You have to recognize that if you expect things to go like this,

 

1. She dislikes a certain behavior
   
   
2. I work on myself to change the behavior
   
   
3. I tell her that I have changed said behavior
   
   
4. I expect her to take me back now that the behavior has changed
   
   

 

you will probably get very frustrated or even angry with her and she will see all of your work as just another exercise in control. If you at all see this as the plan, save yourself the effort and just stay a schmuck.

 

Instead, try this approach,

 

1. She dislikes a certain behavior
   
   
2. I don't want to be a person that does that sort of behavior
   
   
3. I work on myself to change the behavior
   
   
4. She sees the behavior has changed in me
   
   
5. I take pride in the fact that she noticed
   
   
6. I continue to work on that and other bad behaviors in my life
   
   
7. She and I start to develop new levels of respect for each other
   
   
8. I let time, space and ultimately her dictate where things go between us in the future.
   
   

 

...if you start to think in these terms and don't resort to the Valentine's Day dozen roses hail mary pass, she will start to see less desperation on your part and may take a longer look at some of the things you are doing to improve yourself. If she never finds the new you appealing, you can move on to making different mistakes with a new woman:p

[s_n_d]

I think you should do whatever makes YOU happy.

Yes she has asked for space but its valentines day and im sure she would appreciate it.

At the end of the day, we(fellow LSers) cannot tell you what to do.

[traveller991]

Hi:

 

I have received a dozen roses in the past after an argument and was so disgusted at the ploy I threw them in the garbage. Did the same thing another time at Easter with an enormous boquet of lillies. I was disgusted to think that either of these men could worm their way back after what they had done by simply laying out a bunch of cash and expecting me to go all sappy and forgive them.

 

DON'T DO IT IF YOU WANT TO KEEP HER RESPECT.

 

Best thing to do in my opinion is to completely ignore the day and above all else keep NC. If it was me I would be EXPECTING you to do something on V Day and have my defences up and waiting. What a shock to find you had not acknowledged the day at all! I'd certainly be left with a little egg on my face and wondering what you were up to.

[dropdeadlegs]

Glad to hear that you are actively taking responsibility and seeking behavior modification.

 

Do what you have to do concerning the flowers. It's hard to advise from so far outside the relationship dynamics.

 

I do wish to advise that you continue your work on yourself regardless of the outcome of this relationship. Whether she sees/accepts change on your part it will be beneficial for your future. Better late than never, right? Love lost is a great catalyst for change from within, but it has to be something you want for yourself, regardless if it gets the (initial) intended result. You seem to be clear on that today, but keeping that clarity isn't always easy.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do concerning the flowers.

[LIVEWIRE]

You know I agree with most of the replies on this thread so far..but it is hard to give solid advice without knowing what makes the woman in question "tick". What might repulse one person might make another person melt. You need to appeal to HER weakness.....is she a "softie"? Or is she a ball buster?? I am serious about this.

 

I don't think it's neccessarily the action that she might not like..but the intent and the delivery. For instance....sending her roses on V-day might not work simply because it's an "obligatory" day. What makes it so special?? Would sending her a SINGLE rose on a normal day and a heartfelt note make more of an impact? Only you would know that if you know HER. You should ALSO know if any of these gestures might piss her off. Use common sense here. No one here knows your ex...so all we can do is speculate. For all we know your ex is HOPING you "man up" and do something elaborate or special. It could go either way.

 

My suggestion if you MUST do something..is to NOT send her roses. (That's so trite anyway). I would send her a simple card...saying that you

are thinking of her, and as much as you would love to surprise her with a

wonderful gift, you are respecting her wishes. I think this keeps the

dramatics down, but you are STILL acknowledging her and keeping your distance.Keep it short, sweet and respectful. Nothing too mushy or over the top. Hell even a single rose would be a nice touch.

 

Like I said though...different things work for different people.

Just think about what makes HER tick.

[underpants]

Don't do it man.

[g1976b]

dfree, as much as some of your stuff can sting a little bit, again I appreciate your honesty and candor. I tend to be a straight shooter too. The more I think about what you, and others have said about the NON gesture being the gesture, it does make some sense. If I were to send flowers, it would not only be dismissing her explicit wishes, it would probably be expected.

 

Do I want to SHOW her something? Of course. Maybe this is something I can SHOW her...by really not doing anything.

 

Again, if I'm perfectly honest, part of my fear is what if she receives flowers from another guy? I have reason to believe there's a guy moving in. If he takes this opportunity to send flowers, it's new and exciting and he's thoughtful. By doing nothing I move even more into the background/past. Maybe part of it is just keeping my 'hat in the ring'.

 

Also, I see your exercise in the approach I should take as a good one. I know what you're saying. I can't expect she will just take my word for things and jump back into 'us'. She needs to see it, and by doing something UNEXPECTED and different from what I would do in the past, maybe that will do. In terms of V Day, maybe the memories of last year will carry over. She even had her mother (who I'm quite sure hates me) say "it sounds like you had one of those once-in-a-lifetime Valentine's Days".

 

traveller, I do want to keep her respect, and I can see what you're saying. The one thing, the ONLY thing I can probably do at this point is to give her what she's saying she needs. Trust her, and believe her. And above all hope that she is paying attention and still harbors feelings for us.

 

As far as continuing to work on myself, I will do that DDL. I see that it's ruined (potentially forever) something that could have been phenomenal and made me very happy. I have no desire to go through something like this again that leaves me with so much regret and disgust for my behavior and actions. Again, though none of you know the details of our story, suffice to say she felt controlled and suffocated. I am not a mean or vindictive person, and truly much of what manifested itself in my actions was based on what I thought was 'the best thing' for our relationship. I just wasn't listening to her and didn't see what she truly needed. Really simple stuff, and it's dumbfounding how I could have taken it so far.

 

Livewire, thanks for 'realigning' me on this. It's great to get advice from you all, but ultimately I know her (or I should) better than any of you. Ultimately she does have a very tender, soft heart. So yes, NORMALLY the flowers would be a great thing and mean a lot. However, I need to see things for what they are right now. She's very angry with me. She's very hurt and I think if I continue to push and impose my apologies and 'let's try agains' as I have recently, it may only get worse.

 

Last weekend we exchanged some texts and she ended up getting really upset about the perceived 'guilt trip'. It wasn't intended that way, and I apologized, but at the end of the exchange, she came back to 'well just let it alone for a while'. Again, the only "hope" of any kind there is the sliver that one (ME) wants to see.

 

The conventional wisdom seems to be that I need to defy convention and resist my urges and just back off. If anything, maybe I put something together that is SMALL and thoughtful and have it for her some other (less emotion-charged) day.

 

I do appreciate all of the help and insight everyone. I'm trying to listen to the advice, and people like dfree are really helping a lot to keep me grounded and seeing things for what they (probably) are.

[prisonbreak]

Good advice Dfreeman! My therapist couldn't have said it better! I should just send you the check.

[Trimmer]

Finally, to everyone else....here's what else is going through my head. If I'm going to go down, I want to go down "swinging". I want to know I've done absolutely EVERYTHING I can to fight for this. Again, this could be flawed logic, but I'm trying to be open about what I'm feeling.

Well, to continue the analogy, if there's really a chance at reconciling, then you aren't going to make it happen by "swinging" with wild, grandiose gestures.

 

And on the other hand, if you really are going to end up "going down," would you rather do it swinging in desperation, or with some dignity?

[Jackieboy]

SND I respect your opinion but totally disagree. Sending those floweres will make an already bad situation very much worse. Sadly the relationship sounds over but whatever (faint) hope there may be in the future will be killed by gestures such as this. Walk away, don't look back and live your life. Her loss and ask yourself this, at the moment she simply doesn't want you. Do you additionally really want her to start hating you as well for being needy? No woman (or man) likes needy its stifling and if you send those flowers that is how you will appear. You can't force someone to love you by gestures such as this. Save your money for someone who is worth it.

[micahmo77]

Great post and great responses. I feel your pain my friend, im going through the same issues in my head, send something or dont send something to my ex that I want back. Just want to say goodluck in whatever choice you decide to make.

[dfreeman]

You know I agree with most of the replies on this thread so far..but it is hard to give solid advice without knowing what makes the woman in question "tick". What might repulse one person might make another person melt. You need to appeal to HER weakness.....is she a "softie"? Or is she a ball buster?? I am serious about this.

 

LW just gave me the funniest thought...

 

After all the noise I am making against sending gifts to your ex on Valentine's Day, my ex will probably be that one in a million woman that will get mad at me for not sending her anything.

 

I better send a dozen just in case!