mental_traveller Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 You should dump him and not feel guilty. It will be doing him a favour, rather than leading him up the garden path under the delusion that you are actually interested in him. Instead of wasting his time and letting him get even more into you, compounding the pain of the inevitable breakup, do it now. Needless to say, it's obviously better for you as well if you break up now.
lovelorcet Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Since I beleive that I have Borderline, I have read extensively on the subject. I have to say that from reading LS both spookie and shadowplay strongly display BPD traits. You got my vote...
Els Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Oh, spookie. I really don't mean to add to your guilt -- for I certainly believe that you didn't do this on purpose. You took a chance, and for some reason (I agree with the rest that the reason lies within you, although only you can know whether it's the ex or bpd or insecurity or whatever) it didn't work out. There's nothing to be ashamed of that. But guys like that... what you're gonna have to do will crush him. More than the typical guy. Especially since you were the one at least halfway pursuing him. He's gonna wonder what he did wrong, why something so perfect turned into nothing all of a sudden. It's gonna confirm all the insecurities HE has always had about finding a partner, about his desirability to women, about himself in general. It's probably gonna confirm them more than had he never met you. You gotta do what you gotta do. But I really hope that if/when you decide to do it, you do it in a way that he realizes that it wasn't his fault at all, but your honest mistake. If there's a way to do it.
blind_otter Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I had a very similar incident happen to me after college. I became involved with a guy I met on Salon.com personals. He was an engineering student at the uni I worked at. We hit it off, had good conversations, had excellent chemistry (we made out a lot)....when we sealed the deal it was awful. He also was tall and lanky with no muscle tone from a sedentary lifestyle, and he had no rhythm and little to no sexual experience. I tried to stay with him because he was a nice guy with good potential. We had sex maybe 4 times after that, each one was bad as the first time. I ended up breaking up with him and breaking his heart. He moved back to Ohio after that.
Kamille Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I can totally relate to what you are going through Spookie, for I have a history of feelings changing overnight while in my early 20s - to the point where I couldn't stand for the guys I was dating to touch me. It never crossed my mind to think of myself as monster because of it. You're obviously a strong person, and someone who takes a lot upon yourself. You question yourself a lot, and, most importantly, you learn from your mistakes. I know you will figure it out. I think you are likely, like me, someone who is generally happy on her own and who enjoys spending time alone. I think that's why it's always proven hard for me to let someone into my life. I am much to happy on my own. I also know how easy it is to try and blame yourself (and how easy it is for others to blame you), when a relationship doesn't work out. The reason is simple: you feel guilty because you are hurting somebody. Who wouldn't? But most people don't take it to the conclusions that you do. You are not a monster and you are not incapable, or underserving, of love. You made a mistake. You two have only been together a month. Better you end things now. I also want to say that Storyrider's analysis totally applies to me, even today. The last part especially. I have been in 3 LTRs, and all 3 times, those men proved to be even better for me then my romanticised versions of them. I think you had romanticized AS boy, so there was no way he could ever continue to be what you imagined. And the reality isn't right for you. But now that your ex is gone, you've romanticized him too. It isn't always a bad idea to romanticize someone, but it does make it harder when things don't work out because your expectations are so high. Someday you'll romanticize someone, and then when you find out who they really are you'll realize that in some ways they are even better, flaws and all, than what you could have imagined.
Arch Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Umm I'm not talking about marriages, I'm talking about about RELATIONSHIPS. How many relationships end up in marriage? Very few. I'm not even getting into how many marriages that don't break up are actually good and happy... Don't take out your frustration about women that have dumped you out on spookie Don't try to rationalize the morality of someones actions when you know they are wrong - don't say something unless you mean what you say. Edited February 11, 2008 by Arch
Micke81 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 You aren't evil. I'd give it some time though. You said he was a virgin, maybe he just doesn't know how to make it wonderful...you could teach him how to satisfy you...even if that means you tell him you want him to take more control in the relationship.
lino Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Finally I got to a computer! There's something I've been meaning to ask y'all... I don't know what's wrong with me. I've been dating my bf for about a month, talking daily for two, but last weekend, something changed. I was completley into him, ecsastic that maybe I had found my "the one"... until we finally went all the way. Lying in bed after, our limbs intertwined, all the reasons I thought I was falling for him for, morphed into reasons I could not stand to be in the same room. TBH I've had this problem with almost all the men in my past. I convince myself I'm falling in love, thereby giving myself the ok to consummate the relationship...and poof. My "feelings" completely disappear. I didn't want to end it while we were still in bed, despite the overwhelming urge to (I had just taken his virginity, after all) so I decided to give myself a week to see if anything would change... but no. After another weekend together, where I tried very hard to care, I'm just more annoyed than ever. Now there's a list of reasons in my mind I want to flee. (The power dynamics are off (I wear the pants), he disgusts me physically, the sex is terrible, he's a total p*$$y about everything). I don't want to write out the whole thing cause it's mean, but just so you know, it's also LONG. The obvious answer, of course, is that I need to end it. But there's a part of me that's unwilling to let go so quickly. He's a really nice guy, after all, and a fantastic boyfriend; and I know those don't come around very often. And I really think I'm broken, dead inside. With how hard I love(d) my ex, I don't think anyone will ever measure up. Maybe that was it for me, maybe that was the ill-fated love affair of my life; and I should settle now for practicality (it would be hard to beat Mr. AS on that account, on paper he is perfect for me). I just don't feel anything for him. I feel: longing for Wesley, regret about my abortion, guilt regarding my inability to measure up to parental expectations, and basic feelings, like hunger, annoyance, etc. That is ALL. What should I do? Give it more time, because he is a nice guy, smart, and we have things in common? Is it possible if I give it more time I'll begin to feel things? Or should I end it now? If so, how should I do it in such a way that it doesn't mess him up/ turn him away from women for life? But I'm unwilling, for example, to always be on top when we do it. (He tried it once but said the cardio aspect was too much due to his sedentary lifestyle = huge turnoff). I'm also unwilling to fulfill his desire for buttsex... with me on top, "pegging" I'm confused, when exactly did you 1st have sex with him? because on the 30th of january you said this: - he's AMAZING in bed thanks to all the theoretical knowledge he's amassed about sex while other guys were busy actually doing it - he can go 3 times in one night and still be hornyIn this thread you started: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t142946/
Ariadne Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 that's it 100% from when I read about this fling with this guy I totally knew she'd get bored of her new toy soon enough. The guy is really going to be shattered Not at all. Spookie is very lonely and lost, and wanted badly to have some anchor in her life, someone to give her stability and love. She was desperately clinging to the idea that AS guy was all that she ever wanted and needed. Her prince charming, someone smart that she could relate to. But it was all wishful thinking. I still believe that love should not be this hard to find. Who made this crap? And as far as AS guy, I'm sure he spent some of the best times in his life next to spookie. Now is time to move on.
lino Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 yeah that's fair enough but he won't see it that way. IMO she should have made it a FWB with this guy from the get go. In fact I think that's all it really was for her even if she didn't realize it. And anyway according to what she wrote she took his virginity last weekend & the sex was terrible yet on the 30th january they were going 3 times a night & it was AMAZING?
Cobra_X30 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 What is she supposed to do? Marry him? OMG! The way I see it, she did him a favour, he is not a virgin anymore. That's what happens in relationships, 99% of the time one person ends up getting hurt. He will live. No, she didn't do him a favor. It isn't just about getting laid. This isn't American Pie! Actually the situation is sick and twisted, because this guy has a very fragile self esteem. She knew that going into this. She needs to dump him... but she needs to be EXTREMELY careful in how she does it... and I don't see her being the kind of person who does the right thing. Not at all. Spookie is very lonely and lost, and wanted badly to have some anchor in her life, someone to give her stability and love. She was desperately clinging to the idea that AS guy was all that she ever wanted and needed. Her prince charming, someone smart that she could relate to. But it was all wishful thinking. I still believe that love should not be this hard to find. Who made this crap? And as far as AS guy, I'm sure he spent some of the best times in his life next to spookie. Now is time to move on. Look, her feelings suddenly change once she begins a sexual relationship with him! That tells me there is more going on than just his performance. I mean for God's sakes... guys learn and get better with time. If she can't teach him that means she is just as bad in bed as he is... which may be why "love" is so hard to find!
Ariadne Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Look, her feelings suddenly change once she begins a sexual relationship with him! That tells me there is more going on than just his performance. I mean for God's sakes... guys learn and get better with time. If she can't teach him that means she is just as bad in bed as he is... which may be why "love" is so hard to find! Yes, it was not his performance that made her change her mind. When the guy was still a virgin there was something still to look forward to, another level of intimacy. When she got to that level, she realized that that was not where she wanted to be. It was an illusion of love.
Cobra_X30 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Yes, it was not his performance that made her change her mind. When the guy was still a virgin there was something still to look forward to, another level of intimacy. When she got to that level, she realized that that was not where she wanted to be. It was an illusion of love. Exactly! However, whether it is intentional or not... it is never Ok, to jerk people around and play with their emotions. If spookie is not at a point in life where she can love someone who isn't kicking her in the face, then she needs to stay away from men in general! It's fine to not date, in fact if you need to have a man for self esteem purposes your in a world of hurt anyway. I have a very, very low tolerance for women who want a nice guy but treat them like dirt. To me that seems like the guys who import wives from over seas so they can control and abuse them.
Ariadne Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Hi, However, whether it is intentional or not... it is never Ok, to jerk people around and play with their emotions. I'm sure the last thing in the world that spookie wanted was to hurt this guy. She must be feeling devastated about these events. If spookie is not at a point in life where she can love someone... she needs to stay away from men in general! Well, she thought that she had found love. She did what was natural. To follow. I have a very, very low tolerance for women who want a nice guy but treat them like dirt. To me that seems like the guys who import wives from over seas so they can control and abuse them. Women treat guys like dirt when they don't love them (not in this case, she just found out and is deciding what to do). Guys put up with anything when they are crazy about a woman. Edited February 11, 2008 by Ariadne
shadowplay Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 But guys like that... what you're gonna have to do will crush him. More than the typical guy. Especially since you were the one at least halfway pursuing him. He's gonna wonder what he did wrong, why something so perfect turned into nothing all of a sudden. It's gonna confirm all the insecurities HE has always had about finding a partner, about his desirability to women, about himself in general. It's probably gonna confirm them more than had he never met you. I was thinking the same thing. You're going to break his little heart. I've done similar things, so I'm not calling you a monster (I'm sorry you interpreted what I said earlier that way). I believe you were well meaning on the surface, while your less savory motivations were subconscious. I think you pursued him for some combination of the following reasons: 1) He was a conquest to you. You found his inexperience and innocence "cute." You liked the feeling of power he gave you, at least at first. I've been in a similar situation where I devirginized a guy and later realized my real motivations. Now that you've accomplished what you sought, his inexperience and passiveness have gone from charming to repulsive in your eyes. Hence your "pussy" comment. Don't kill me for saying this, but I don't believe you ever respected him. Take the way you repeatedly dubbed him a "robot," even if jokingly. I thought that was a little strange. 2) You found him unintimidating. His behavior was more predictable to you because of his Asperger's and need for order. Keep in mind that alternating between devaluing and idealizing is classic Borderline. From Wikipedia's entry on BPD: A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. Don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that you're Borderline (I have a feeling you will, defensively). From the time I first started reading your threads I've had a hunch that you are, but I didn't want to mention it until I had more evidence. You fit a lot of the traits (again from Wikipedia): A DSM diagnosis of BPD requires any five out of nine listed criteria to be present for a significant period of time. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). [Again, not including suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5] Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats, or self-mutilating behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars, or picking at oneself. Chronic feelings of emptiness, worthlessness. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. That's at least four, plus the idealization/devaluation behavior mentioned above (which was another entry in this list). I won't play the role of armchair psychologist and say you have BPD, but I will say it's pretty damn likely and you should look into it further. Have you ever cut yourself? If you have, that pretty much seals the deal.
Art_Critic Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 A diagnosis of BPD takes a qualified person and some face time with an individual as well as a lengthy set of conversations between the patient and therapist before a determination can be determined. Nobody can diagnose somebody else of BPD by reading posts on the internet.. you can make the suggestion that the person seek qualified help and that is it..
shadowplay Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) A diagnosis of BPD takes a qualified person and some face time with an individual as well as a lengthy set of conversations between the patient and therapist before a determination can be determined. Nobody can diagnose somebody else of BPD by reading posts on the internet.. you can make the suggestion that the person seek qualified help and that is it.. Did you even read my post? I explicitely said "I won't play the role of armchair psychologist" and diagnose her. I said in my opinion there was a good possibility she had it and it was something to look into. There are certain obvious behaviors that are easy to recognize if you know anything about BPD. I don't see any harm in encouraging her to seek a professional diagnosis given that she seems to display many of those behaviors. I know a bit more about the disorder than most because I was in a relationship with a guy who had it, and it was one of my main interests as a psychology major in college. EDIT: I just realized that "armchair psychologist" doesn't make sense since psychologists already sit in armchairs , but you guys know what I meant. Edited February 11, 2008 by shadowplay
dropdeadlegs Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Wow, I was afflicted with BPD throughout my teens and twenties based on this info. Funny, I'm cured now.
Art_Critic Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Did you even read my post? I did.. your post is what prompted me to post what I did.. you were diagnosing her.. you are not qualified and it is reckless and dangerous for you to do so... I see what you are getting at.. but you could have just as easily have told her that she needs to seek help and to see a therapist that can diagnose her. Nowhere in your post did you ask her to seek out help of a trained qualified person.
shadowplay Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Wow, I was afflicted with BPD throughout my teens and twenties based on this info. Funny, I'm cured now. Some people grow out of it.
blind_otter Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Wow, I was afflicted with BPD throughout my teens and twenties based on this info. Funny, I'm cured now. I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder in 2006. I had to go through intensive therapy and medication therapy to make significant progress. According to my psychiatrist, all personality disorders exist on a continuum, ranging from mild to severe. If it severely effects your life and interactions, then you should seek out treatment but be very wary and choosey when it comes to your mental health professional -- try to pick one experienced with treatment of this personality disorder, someone who has a positive track record. Also, if there is ANY self-injury going on, seek treatment ASAP.
Cobra_X30 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Hi, However, whether it is intentional or not... it is never Ok, to jerk people around and play with their emotions. I'm sure the last thing in the world that spookie wanted was to hurt this guy. She must be feeling devastated about these events. Her intent in this does not matter. It is her actions that count most. If spookie is not at a point in life where she can love someone... she needs to stay away from men in general! Well, she thought that she had found love. She did what was natural. To follow. Ignorance is never an excuse. If she really thought she had found love then she would still be following. This is different. This is about personal ego and power. It's sick wrong and abusive. I have a very, very low tolerance for women who want a nice guy but treat them like dirt. To me that seems like the guys who import wives from over seas so they can control and abuse them. Women treat guys like dirt when they don't love them (not in this case, she just found out and is deciding what to do). Guys put up with anything when they are crazy about a woman. Some guys are taught to bend over backwards to keep a woman's love. Does that make it right to abuse this? Abuse cycles because people learn from their experiences. Her actions which hurt him will provide the learning tools for him to go on and hurt someone else. It spreads like disease.
blind_otter Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Abuse cycles because people learn from their experiences. Her actions which hurt him will provide the learning tools for him to go on and hurt someone else. It spreads like disease. Yeah but that is not a given. There are plenty of people who have been severely abused who go on to do the exact OPPOSITE of what their abuser did to them, who love and cherish and are kinder and gentler. Human beings aren't the slaves of behaviorism. We have a higher mind and the ability to choose.
shadowplay Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) I did.. your post is what prompted me to post what I did.. you were diagnosing her.. you are not qualified and it is reckless and dangerous for you to do so... I see what you are getting at.. but you could have just as easily have told her that she needs to seek help and to see a therapist that can diagnose her. Nowhere in your post did you ask her to seek out help of a trained qualified person. I repeat: I specifically said I was not diagnosing her and not saying she had it. I said in my opinion there's a good possibility she has it and she should seek professional help. "I will not play armchair psychologist and say you have BPD." Do you know the definition of diagnose? 1.to determine the identity of (a disease, illness, etc.) by a medical examination: The doctor diagnosed the illness as influenza. A maybe, look into this, is not a diagnosis. I was very clear about making that distinction. If I had just said "see a professional, you might have such and such" without being more specific, she would have taken it less seriously. It's more convincing to give her precise reasons on why I think she may have the disorder. I've italicized, bolded and underlined all the qualifiers in my writing so you don't miss them this time. If you want to continue to skew my words, then be my guest. This is exactly why I'm often reluctant to post on public forums -- because people will skew your words and jump to conclusions, disregarding all nuances/qualifiers in what you say. Meanwhile the original intention of the post is abandoned while the thread veers off topic into petty arguing. This is the second post of mine in which you've done exactly the same thing (disregarding my qualifiers), and it's starting to get on my nerves. Edited February 11, 2008 by shadowplay
Cobra_X30 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Yeah but that is not a given. There are plenty of people who have been severely abused who go on to do the exact OPPOSITE of what their abuser did to them, who love and cherish and are kinder and gentler. Human beings aren't the slaves of behaviorism. We have a higher mind and the ability to choose. So your argument here is that because some of us are better equipped mentally to handle abuse... then it's Ok to abuse people? I disagree, and I hope others do too!
Recommended Posts