Cobra_X30 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 he has an enormous sense of injustice. i forgot to mention that this professor was also married with a baby. once i ended it, my husband and i debated long and hard whether or not to tell his wife. we decided not to do so. there were a variety of reasons - the involvement of a child, etc. most selfishly - she is also a professor at my school. i see her quite regularly. he feels on multiple levels that a great injustice has been done. he has suffered while the OM has gone on with his life - albeit uncomfortably. it's been embarrassing for him - but his wife doesn't know, they just had another baby, and he feels safe, i suppose. also - part of the wall is the fact that i still see this professor intermittently. he did not lose his job, i could not transfer due to the nature of medical programs. we have absolutely no relationship - friendly or otherwise - but that stumbling block still exists for him. the affair ended 1.5 years ago - but i've seen the prof sporadically just due to running into him at school. that makes everything harder. i genuinely hope and think that in 3 months, when i graduate and get away, our lives will be better. lastly, he feels i did him an injustice. he chose to marry me without having been with other women, without really dating, having never traveled. i was enough to satisfy him. he understood that you can't have your cake and eat it too. which is exactly what i tried to do. it seems unjust. i think he feels injustice all around. Shoot! Then I understand why your wanting to make things feel fair. Ok, there are a couple of things you can do to fix this. The first is that you should probably offer to write a letter to this professors wife! Now, your husband may turn you down... but it will help him feel like things are more fair. Of course maybe you have offered to do this before. I'm not sure. If you show any resistance to the idea, then it may have made him feel you were protecting the other man. I'm not sure how you handled this previously... but it is an important issue moving forward, and as you explain the situation, it seems your husband is still bothered by this. Now, the fact that you still see this guy... That's a serious problem. Especially for a full year afterwards. I realize you can't exactly switch schools though. If he was having trust issues, that's one thing, or fear that you will leave him down the road... those are things you can work to make him feel better about. Typically those who feel the situation is not fair, need to see some sort of punishment to remove that feeling. Do you think your husband is this way? If so what sort of things can you do, or do you do to provide this feeling? I really would not suggest the whole him having an affair also idea. I think provided no contact with the OM, and you doing your absolute best to be what he needs will fix things in the end. I can tell you this because I am that type of guy also. Any kind of disrespect or injustice will drive me crazy.
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 so you think telling his wife is the right thing to do? they have 2 small children together, they are both professors at the same university - it will blow their lives apart. i will ruin a family. i consider telling her frequently. i've thought of writing her a letter, telling her after graduation (less than 90 days away now) - but i'm just not sure it's right. otherwise, everything you (and everyone else) has said makes sense. and truthfully, you are all saying what my gut has been telling me. that this is a bad idea and that it won't help anything. i realize that. i really really do. it's just that this has been devastating and harder than anything i've ever dealt with in my life. harder than medical school, harder than ANYTHING. and i want to make it better, whatever it takes. whatever. there is more to talk about with MH obviously. i hope fervently that with time we will heal.
Cobra_X30 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 so you think telling his wife is the right thing to do? they have 2 small children together, they are both professors at the same university - it will blow their lives apart. i will ruin a family. i consider telling her frequently. i've thought of writing her a letter, telling her after graduation (less than 90 days away now) - but i'm just not sure it's right. otherwise, everything you (and everyone else) has said makes sense. and truthfully, you are all saying what my gut has been telling me. that this is a bad idea and that it won't help anything. i realize that. i really really do. it's just that this has been devastating and harder than anything i've ever dealt with in my life. harder than medical school, harder than ANYTHING. and i want to make it better, whatever it takes. whatever. there is more to talk about with MH obviously. i hope fervently that with time we will heal. In regards to your Prof... he made his choice already. He must live with whatever consequences come his way. I don't know this guy... but if he has not told his wife already then there is a chance that you either were not the first, or may not be the last affair he has. His wife has a right to know the truth, taking that choice away from her is really not your right. I'd say it's ultimately your husbands choice. He should be the one who contacts her... not you! My family split due to infidelity when I was a teen. I can say with honesty that I wish it had happened when I was younger. Yes, this is hard. It's like crippling someone in a car accident. There are some things in life you cannot fully atone for. That is simply your cross to bear. If you focus on doing the right thing and forever being the best wife you can be... perhaps that wall will come down over time. Maybe it won't... you have to decide if that's a risk worth taking. I know you have already talked to your H about finding another woman. I'm not sure if you can backpedal at this point. Perhaps it's best if you just leave it be for a while, and if he brings up the idea, simply explain how you feel.
TMCM Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Granted that with most things, a mutually agreed upon decision is best. But seeing how this is not one of them, why not let your husband decide to tell the OM's wife or not? This will put all the power of revenge or mercy squarely on his shoulders. Any decision he makes will be his and his alone, and thus hopefully remove any resentment towards you for 'protecting' the OM from the consequences of his involvement with you. Even if you weren't married, an intimate relationship between a professor and his student is something that most Universities would not tolerate due to the legal liabilities. Maybe your husband can get legal counsel on what legal options are available to him. Maybe a letter of reprimand to the OM from the University could help your husband tremendously. From that point on, a sword of Damocles would be held over the OM's head that could come down on him anytime he allows history to repeat itself. It would seem that these two things would help your husband's personal recovery much more than to allow him to have sex with another woman.
becauseofyou Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 i was in counseling during the affair - but i gave up on it. honestly, i was smarter and knew more about the human condition than did my counselor. after reading numerous books, talking to others, i've come to the conclusion that counselors are human too - and there isn't much they can't tell me that i haven't already figured out (in some form) myself. I would strongly suggest you resume councilling before you enter into this arrangement with your husband. I know you said you are smarter than them but an intelligent person knows there is always more to learn, always more that someone else can teach us. The fact that you are posting here shows that you are not 100% sure of your decision and are looking for advice. Why not ask a professional? If you didn't like your previous counciller then shop around and find one you do respect. It's a risky decision to make. There is the possibility it could end your marriage. You've managed to work through a year and a half of dealing with your affair. Why throw something into the mix now that could ruin all that work? And even if you do go through with it and your husband sleeps with another woman, will you be prepared for your emotional reaction? Or his? Will you wonder if the other woman was better in bed constantly? Will you want to know exactly what she did and how he felt? Talk to a professional. Figure out exactly why you want to do this and prepare yourself for every emotion. That's the only way you and your husband will move on from this. I wish you the best of luck.
BetrayedMM Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 I think telling his wife is a better idea as far as justice. She has a right to know, and it is not right to help keep this thing a secret anyway. Goes towards 'coming clean' and taking your lumps also, as I'm sure there's a possibility of drama and inconvenience you will have to deal with. Will also demonstrate once and for all that your loyalty is towards your husband, that there is no unspoken agreement left between you and the frisky professor, that you are no longer willing to protect your affair partner at your husband's expense. I gotta tell you, I sure wish more cheaters would get with the program the way you are. Had my wife shown this kind of remorse, we would be well on the road to reconciliation!
Mr. Lucky Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 I think telling his wife is a better idea as far as justice. She has a right to know, and it is not right to help keep this thing a secret anyway. Goes towards 'coming clean' and taking your lumps also, as I'm sure there's a possibility of drama and inconvenience you will have to deal with. Will also demonstrate once and for all that your loyalty is towards your husband, that there is no unspoken agreement left between you and the frisky professor, that you are no longer willing to protect your affair partner at your husband's expense. You're assigning blame to the wrong person - oncegolden's Husband wasn't betrayed by the Prof, he was betrayed by her. Telling the OM's wife 18 months down the road only screws up 2 more lives. As a former Betrayed Spouse, I'm all for outing the OM if necessary to stop the affair. That's not the case here. Oncegolden, you're looking at things that affect everyone but you. Your H, his proposed sex partner, the OM, his wife, his kids...they're all popping up on your list. But nothing you do is going to alter the facts of what happened. You cheated. You know it. Your H knows it. You have taken some painful first steps in trying to make things right. I'd advise you to continue down that road - be the best person, the best wife, the best Mother and the best partner in life (and for life) that your H could hope to have. You'll find that the road back will be a work in progress. You want to make it up sexually to your H? Give him a blow job every Sunday night for the next 20 years. He'll thank me for it ... Mr. Lucky
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 mr lucky - he already gets far in excess of that. our sex life didn't suffer - once we decided to remain committed. that's the thing about this affair - i've never stopped being attracted to him, nor him to me. after 8 years of marriage, we still have sex at least 5 times a week, if not more. it's always been that way. we always got along. he's had moments of emotional distance, but we're both in incredibly rigorous programs. it's been hard trying to elucidate my motivations, though i spent time with a counselor and a great deal of time scribbling in my journal. anyway, i'm working on whether or not to tell the wife.yes, it would be drama and inconvenience and horrible. but that's not what's stopping me. it's not entirely up to me. MH isn't sure telling her is the right thing to do either, especially considering that they have 2 children together. i guess i can only hope that karma will catch up with him in the end. beyond that, i have to let it go. but i do still consider telling her almost daily. it won't be a rash decision, that's for sure.
Tomcat33 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) tom cat: how do you know time and love and rebuilt trust will fix us? what if it doesn't? i don't want my husband shackled to me out of a strong sense of commitment and miserable for the rest of his life. despite what some think - i do love him. i do want him to be happy. it breaks my heart to realize that i - his wife and best friend - destroyed him so. i'm so afraid that if i don't find something somehow that will bring his self-esteem back - that will make him believe he is attractive and sexy - then he will never be happy with me again. Because time and love and rebuilt trust DOES fix a couple. Because putting the onis on another woman to lift your H's self esteem is NOT the answer. Who will lift your self esteem when you stand by and watch your marriage deteriorate even more? Because two wrongs don't make a right. Because you have a better chance at surviving the affair if you work hard at reassuring your H that he is your everything, than to pawn off your mess of situation on to a new person who is really not going to fix a thing. Because it's weak on your part and it is lazy to think "well I can't possibly make this right I need to let him go out and get laid so that I have something to throw in his face when he rubs my nose in my mistake" That's not working at improving things, that is leveraging yourself so that you don't have to deal with the mistake YOU made and you have some ammo for him. it's smart I'll give you that but it is not healthy. All the work SHOULD fall on your lap you cheated on him you need to win him back with your everything not with some street walker who is going to suck and rub her privates on him, back into a the safe zone of self esteem. Oh I'm sorry is my comment offensive? Because that is EXACTLY what this woman is going to do with the man you claim to love with all your heart. Because there are many many cases of couples who have been around a lot longer than you and your H have who can attest to what a delicate thing it is to start introducing new partners into your marriage UNLESS an open marriage is what you want. Should I go on...? No one is sayng your H should be shackled to you out of a sense of commitment, that is your own insecurities talking and I think the reason you want this to happen so badly is to make those dark voices that make you feel crazy inside, go away. Only you can make them go away. If your H wants out he can get out, you are not shackling him are you? So I think you need to give councelling another go I can guarantee you there are millions of therapists that will run circles around you and your way of thinking you happened to land a weak one that didn't help you. But believe me the things you are claiming here show what is really driving you to do what you want to do and it is NOT because you know a lot more about humans than most people it is your own fears and insecurities brought on by the idea that you hurt the man you love. Edited February 7, 2008 by Tomcat33
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 tomcat: i respect that you have opinions - but did it occur to you when writing that you could possibly be wrong about some of these things you're assuming? in the year and a half since the affair ended - MH has not thrown the affair in my face. not once. not during arguments, not during bad days. and i would never ever SET HIM UP so that i could leverage something against him. i'm not conniving and evil like that. if you knew me, i suppose you would know that. but you don't. i have no interest in having ammo against him. lastly you said "the reason you want this to happen so badly" - what makes you think i want this so badly? i have repeatedly said this was ONE idea we've discussed. i wanted feedback, other peoples' thoughts and advice. i don't want it badly. i conceded about 3 posts ago that everything you guys have said has been right. why do you seem to eager to tear me up and say things like "this man you claim to love?" why are you so angry? i agree the work should be all mine. i totally and 100% agree. haven't i indicated that over and over and over again. do you think i want my husband out with some other woman? do you really think that?
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 also, i saw more than 1 counselor. i don't think i'm smarter than ALL of them. but what i think - when it boils down to it - is that counselors are humans too - with their own hang-ups, prejudices, and thoughts. and those thoughts may not necessarily be applicable to every couple. what can a counselor tell me that i haven't already figured out myself?
Mr. Lucky Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 what can a counselor tell me that i haven't already figured out myself? When you become a Doctor, what treatment could you give me that I couldn't self-administer? Mr. Lucky
Tomcat33 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 tomcat: i respect that you have opinions - but did it occur to you when writing that you could possibly be wrong about some of these things you're assuming? in the year and a half since the affair ended - MH has not thrown the affair in my face. not once. not during arguments, not during bad days. and i would never ever SET HIM UP so that i could leverage something against him. i'm not conniving and evil like that. if you knew me, i suppose you would know that. but you don't. i have no interest in having ammo against him. lastly you said "the reason you want this to happen so badly" - what makes you think i want this so badly? i have repeatedly said this was ONE idea we've discussed. i wanted feedback, other peoples' thoughts and advice. i don't want it badly. i conceded about 3 posts ago that everything you guys have said has been right. why do you seem to eager to tear me up and say things like "this man you claim to love?" why are you so angry? i agree the work should be all mine. i totally and 100% agree. haven't i indicated that over and over and over again. do you think i want my husband out with some other woman? do you really think that? Of course it "occured" to me, that I could be wrong. I don't know you I know what you write here and people assess you on what you disclose. the more you disclose about your situation the closer the assesments will be. As it stands all I have seen is you arguing your stance on why you think it would be good to go through with letting your H go out and have an A, so then do it? What's holding you back? If you seriously think that's the answer get it over and done with, don't you think? I didn't read your whole thread I read the first two pages and came here to post an answer to your comment you made towards me on the first page. You wanted feedback I am giving you feedback on what you are contemplating but it seems every thing I have read from other posters you shut down to justify your choice, that is what made me think you want it badly. Gotta admit that's pretty misleading otherwise. I am sorry if it seems like I am trying to tear you up, I am trying to open your eyes sot hat you dont make a mistake that can cost you what is left of your rel. Ok so you say this is ONE idea you have discussed, what are the other ideas you have discussed? Surely they have to be better than this one...
Tomcat33 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) what can a counselor tell me that i haven't already figured out myself? Tools to help you cope and fix your marriage so that you don't have to introduce a third party to "fix" it? Just a thought..... Edited February 7, 2008 by Tomcat33
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 since you only read the first two - then you missed the one where i said that it does seem like a bad idea, it was just an idea - something i was giving thought - and definitely not something i want. and it's hard to put this out there for other people to judge and comment on - so i get a little defensive. it's understandable. that said: we've discussed counseling. he is 100% willing to go with me, if that's what i want. he doesn't think it will help, i don't think it will help - but we've considered it and not ruled out. we've discussed just trying to work through it ourselves without any "outside" parties. we've discussed separating and seeing how we do apart. we've discussed divorce. any other ideas i'm missing?
Tomcat33 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) since you only read the first two - then you missed the one where i said that it does seem like a bad idea, it was just an idea - something i was giving thought - and definitely not something i want. and it's hard to put this out there for other people to judge and comment on - so i get a little defensive. it's understandable. Yes I did miss that sorry. But it's ok that it's a bad idea, everyone gets ideas, the question is do you want to make something of it or not. Also do you understand and are fully convinced as to why it is a bad idea? That will help you find a better one. But if you reject it because people think it's nuts that's not a good reason not to do it. Some of the most brilliant innventions came about from crazy ideas that were shut down by the masses, and it was perseverence and selfconviction that made them come to life. the problem is YOU are not convinced about this idea so it can only go down from there. that said: we've discussed counseling. he is 100% willing to go with me, if that's what i want. he doesn't think it will help, i don't think it will help - but we've considered it and not ruled out. well "willing" is one thing it is a good start but going in with the attitude that it wont help is pretty much the nail on the coffin, in your case I can see the hessitation if you had bad experiences. Out of curiosity how long did you go? therapy is a process it is not two sessions and "oh well that was pointless" you need to really ride it out WITH the right therapist. a few sessions is fine to figure out who you want to hire to be your therapist but not to make a change. any other ideas i'm missing? I don't know you tell me? You are not doing me any favours by saying that, this is your situation we are trying to solve. we've discussed just trying to work through it ourselves without any "outside" parties. we've discussed separating and seeing how we do apart. we've discussed divorce. Now why would you seperate? Are you having problems in the relationship? Or is the only prblem that you are convinced your man needs another woman to even the score? How did you come up with that idea basically is what I am asking? Edited February 7, 2008 by Tomcat33
Arch Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 lol, to the OP, your the one that wants to break up so badly, not your husband, him f**king some chick is not something he wants. Its what you want, and considering you are pushing it so hard - it either turns you on or you are hoping he leaves the marriage for some other girl so you can feel guilt free.
Cobra_X30 Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 tomcat: i respect that you have opinions - but did it occur to you when writing that you could possibly be wrong about some of these things you're assuming? in the year and a half since the affair ended - MH has not thrown the affair in my face. not once. not during arguments, not during bad days. and i would never ever SET HIM UP so that i could leverage something against him. i'm not conniving and evil like that. if you knew me, i suppose you would know that. but you don't. i have no interest in having ammo against him. lastly you said "the reason you want this to happen so badly" - what makes you think i want this so badly? i have repeatedly said this was ONE idea we've discussed. i wanted feedback, other peoples' thoughts and advice. i don't want it badly. i conceded about 3 posts ago that everything you guys have said has been right. why do you seem to eager to tear me up and say things like "this man you claim to love?" why are you so angry? i agree the work should be all mine. i totally and 100% agree. haven't i indicated that over and over and over again. do you think i want my husband out with some other woman? do you really think that? You make a very good point. Nobody here really knows you at this point. In a way Tomcat, me, and others are throwing ideas at you... testing your attitude and demeanor unintentionally. I think Mr. Lucky has made some generally good points about how to recover from this. Except for the stuff about telling the Prof's wife. You describe how your H has lost self esteem due to this situation. Does he really feel less because of this? Think of this in terms of value. The affair can lower his perceived value of himself, of you, or of both. I think that the best way for you to recover from this is to work as hard as you can to recover whatever value you have lost in his eyes. Does that make sense? If he doubts himself there isn't any real way for you to fix that. He will have to fix that himself. also, i saw more than 1 counselor. i don't think i'm smarter than ALL of them. but what i think - when it boils down to it - is that counselors are humans too - with their own hang-ups, prejudices, and thoughts. and those thoughts may not necessarily be applicable to every couple. what can a counselor tell me that i haven't already figured out myself? Honestly, I am similarly skeptical about counselors. However, I think the two of you would benefit simply from sitting and talking openly about things. I did my first session with a therapist at 16. The guy told me I had anger issues. I responded by telling him to F*** Off and promptly walked out of his office. Irony? The point is not to expect them to be smarter than you, otherwise your going to be disappointed. They won't have the answers to everything, because as you pointed out earlier universal answers don't really exist.
lost4ever Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Hey OP, I didn't read through the whole post, but wanted to dip my finger in the kool-aid on the parts I have read. I understand what you are going through with wondering if your husband will ever really be able to "get over this", I believe most of it is our (the cheaters) own guilt. I know that ever question my H ask me I wonder if he thinks I'm up to something and have to try very hard not to get deffensive towards him. I know he does/doesn't do things becuase he thinks I will think he is not trust me....(when I work at the home office he will stand at the bottom of the stairs and yell, come down and give me a kiss, b/c he thinks I will think he is just checking up on me if he comes in the office) It's a challenge to put cheating behind in the M, it seems like it is always a black cloud hanging over. As for MC/IC...same opinion....I heard that you should test out a couple, but really I just thinking getting a good how to communicate book and you and your H read it together once in awhile is a good way (my opinion, based on no facts) For telling the BW, I have no idea what you should do in this situation, I am sort of in the same position with this and on LS, 1/2 say do it, 1/2 say don't. I finally asked my H and he said he wanted me to, but it was up to me since I was the one who had to deal with the consequences. He also said it would make him feel better b/c he belives the BW has a right to know, and he would have told himself if I would have asked him not to. I guess what I would suggest is to ask your H's opinion. Good Luck
Author once_golden Posted February 7, 2008 Author Posted February 7, 2008 ARCH: read all the comments if you're going to respond. i am not pushing him, i never have. i made the offer, we've discussed, it's one thing we've considered. to the rest of you -thank you for the advice. with the exception of a few things - i agree with what ya'll say. TOMCAT: as for counseling, i was in for at least 25 sessions with my therapist. and then another. so i feel that i gave that a fair try. but i'm not ruling it out. we've discussed separation because we both fear that this will always cloud our relationship from now on. i didn't mean we'd recently discussed it- this was more immediatley post-affair. it's been a while since we discussed the separate/divorce thing. i do see why it's a bad idea - i see it logically. i really do. but it was something i had to give serious consideration. as you said, just because it seems like a crazy idea doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad one. COBRA: yes, his self-esteem plummeted post-affair. he feels unattractive - and of course, despite what i tell him - he blames some part of this on himself. he thinks he must have failed me - emotionally and / or physically to cause me to have an affair. so his self-esteem is fairly low. it's also low- b/c on some level, he feels foolish for staying married to me - knowing what i did to him. despite loving me, there's that.
Bryanp Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 If you were the OM's wife wouldn't you in the long run wish to know? I agree with your husband that an enormous amount of injustice is going on here. The fact that you are protecting the OM in his marriage sends a loud and clear message to your husband that you place the well-being of the OM over the well-being of your husband. I don't see how your husband could see it any other way.
Author once_golden Posted February 8, 2008 Author Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) you misunderstand. i told my husband that i would tell the OW if that's what he wanted. but he isn't sure it's the right thing to do. as i said - they have 2 young children together -and my husband isn't sure telling her would be the right thing to do. if he told me today that he wanted me to tell her - i would respect his wish and do it - despite any inconvenience and drama it would cause me. he knows that. he doesn't want me to tell her. at least - not yet. i dont know if i would want to know - if the situation were reversed - it depends on the situation. if my husband cheated but was truly remorseful and didn't ever plan to do it again - then maybe i wouldn't want to know he'd done it once. and the OM seems truly remorseful. but who knows? Edited February 8, 2008 by once_golden
Arch Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 lol you seriously think the college professor is remorseful? Come on, you were a easy f**k, he will do it again to some other girl who "idolizes" him like you did.
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