Cobra_X30 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 I'll answer if Shadow isn't around yet. He did that way, way before. He had NO excuse. Throughout their relationship Shadow seeemed very attentive, yet insecure. He was verbally committed, yet his actions made her feel very insecure, due to his lack of passion. This worried her more due to that she knew he had felt very obsessively over ex's who gave him much less, and treated him rather dismissively. She told him about the friend at month 6. A new spin is put on it with recent developments that she may have sensed this betrayal and emotional remove from him throughout the relationship, hence she turned to the friend who seemed more emotionally available. Well, his actions say mistrust in big bold letters. That mistrust comes from either internal or external factors. Shadow, take a strong look at his family situation and what you know about his past relationships and see if you can determine anything that would give him intimacy problems. External factors would come from shadow and how he interprets her actions. While I don't like what he did, I also don't believe this validates all of shadows previous insecurity and doubts.
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 Well, his actions say mistrust in big bold letters. That mistrust comes from either internal or external factors. Shadow, take a strong look at his family situation and what you know about his past relationships and see if you can determine anything that would give him intimacy problems. External factors would come from shadow and how he interprets her actions. While I don't like what he did, I also don't believe this validates all of shadows previous insecurity and doubts. It's true that he has trust issues stemming from family issues, but I don't see how the two are connected. To me what he did suggests an incapability of appreciating what he has and feeling love for someone who reciprocates, not necessarily mistrust. Could you explain your reasoning?
Florida Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) Yes, again! Your sense of human nature is scary. I feel like you really understand my situation. You've given voice to so many of my thoughts. Thank you. Just a few things I wanted to add. What disturbs me most about guys having affinity for this type of girl is it's all about superficial attributes. Beneath my shy exterior, I'm actually pretty spunky and talkative...but that doesn't matter. What guys care about more is how a girl acts in public, how she comes across to others. If she's popular. It's not about getting to know the real person. And it seems like the lower a guy's self esteem, the more he lusts after the crass extrovert to fill his identity void. My bf hasn't contacted me since that text message last night. For all his promises of going the distance to prove his trust to me last night, all I get is a measly text message... Aww you're welcome! Well he was completely kissing your butt before this, I believe that once a guy is caught out like that, they cannot stand the fall from the pedestal they are on in their own mind. You now reflect back to him that he is the bad guy. Even bad guys don't want to be thought of as the bad guy. This really sucks, I hope this hasn't hooked you in more? I want you to brace yourself that he may pull back, a lot. He is in the wrong, and probably can't deal. In a sick way-aren't you relived the other shoe dropped? I would be. Now you know that the fears are confirmed. No more wondering, guessing.....it is exhausting competing with the ever present shadow of the unavailable ones, the ones who hurt him, how much can he be repaired? Sadly, the myth is wrong, a woman's love cannot fix a man. And you would have always have had to have been the unreachable girl for him to sustain deep feeling for you. How sad for HIM. Unfortunately, I think many if not ALL guys are like this. The ones who loved me the most adoringly and without holds were the ones I did not love back to my full capacity. Edited February 6, 2008 by Florida
Cobra_X30 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 It's true that he has trust issues stemming from family issues, but I don't see how the two are connected. To me what he did suggests an incapability of appreciating what he has and feeling love for someone who reciprocates, not necessarily mistrust. Could you explain your reasoning? Well, I know because I have some very similar problems. Probably due to issues he has faced in the past, the stronger his feelings become for you the more vulnerable he feels. To alleviate this he will want to know that he does not have to rely on you and you alone. To know that if you dump him or hurt him that he has somewhere to go. I never turn to an ex, but I know plenty of guys who do! Listen, its like putting on a parachute, it makes you feel more safe if the plane starts to crash. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that he says "I love you" for the first time then gets Hammered and does this? He probably went out and got smashed to alleviate the fear.
Florida Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 add on: BUT-there is choice involved. Perhaps you, Shadow, like me, are attracted to the emotional flat liners over the effusive sensitive loving type. And is it any surprise when the flat liners want the party girl, the party girl wants the ?? (well I'm not sure), and the squishy emotional guys want the over analytical semi neurotic girls yet we don't want them. Do you want the emotional flat liner to suddenly change into the effusive emotional guy AFTER he met you? Me too...... but --see the problem?
Replicant Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 I ultimately make decisions about the relationship based on what I want, not what others tell me, but getting outside opinions helps me sort out my thoughts. It's true that getting advice over the internet is not ideal, but I have few people I can turn to in real life (I have no female friends). How is it disrespectful to him? I'm not allowed to get advice or outside input? Most women rehash the details of their relationships with girlfriends. I don't have that luxury. I can see how you might view some of my other posts as overly obsessive, but this time it isn't just a little "speed bump." If anything, what he did confirms many of my insecurities, as others have pointed out. I am seeking therapy (trying to find a new therapist), but this is the only relationship I've been in where I've been so insecure. That suggests the relationship may be to blame more than my own problems. Surely it takes two to tango so i'm not blaming any one person in regards to the relationships various problems. My suggestion was more towards bettering yourself, putting such relationships secondary until you yourself can handle such. In sense of saying, is this what you want in terms of being drawn to LS for guidance on a continual basis hanging onto fragments of whatever this is to be? To me it seems very damaged. Doesn't really resonate happiness seeing such continual postings on the negative side really. As for disrespect, open advice where needed is fine. I just think a lot of what you ask the answers may have come better from just simple communication with your boyfriend or just overlooking small insignificant things, instead of making barriers or walls of silence/confusion which just add to paranoia, conflict and drama. More in the sense of it all making him a third party in many of the resolutions. I personally think as good as the advice given is, it seems to prolong things till the next weeks problem and seems like an infinite loop which cannot be good for the future in this relationship or if you carry the same behavior into the next. Where as i think therapy and working on yourself should be your focus.
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 The ones who loved me the most adoringly and without holds were the ones I did not love back to my full capacity. Same.......
Florida Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Well, I know because I have some very similar problems. Probably due to issues he has faced in the past, the stronger his feelings become for you the more vulnerable he feels. To alleviate this he will want to know that he does not have to rely on you and you alone. To know that if you dump him or hurt him that he has somewhere to go. I never turn to an ex, but I know plenty of guys who do! Listen, its like putting on a parachute, it makes you feel more safe if the plane starts to crash. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that he says "I love you" for the first time then gets Hammered and does this? He probably went out and got smashed to alleviate the fear. This is interesting....cobra would you say that if he felt absolutely sure of Shadow's love he would not have done this (not blaming you Shadow for his actions-just trying to get in his head) or are you saying a certain type of guy will need to have back ups the more he falls hard? Could this explain the obsession for the superficial party girl type? That she would let him have his room, his fun, and he is free to wander back to her on his own?
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 add on: BUT-there is choice involved. Perhaps you, Shadow, like me, are attracted to the emotional flat liners over the effusive sensitive loving type. And is it any surprise when the flat liners want the party girl, the party girl wants the ?? (well I'm not sure), and the squishy emotional guys want the over analytical semi neurotic girls yet we don't want them. Do you want the emotional flat liner to suddenly change into the effusive emotional guy AFTER he met you? Me too...... but --see the problem? Yes, and yes. The type of guy I'm attracted to is aloof on the surface but emotional underneath. You too? Unfortunately, I often perceive emotional depth where there is none because I want it to be there. I want to be the girl who uncovers it. I'm starting to realize that more often than not the flatliners are flat to their core, and it's a lost cause trying to find a nugget of gold. There just isn't much there, or it's only reserved for unavailable people.
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 Surely it takes two to tango so i'm not blaming any one person in regards to the relationships various problems. My suggestion was more towards bettering yourself, putting such relationships secondary until you yourself can handle such. In sense of saying, is this what you want in terms of being drawn to LS for guidance on a continual basis hanging onto fragments of whatever this is to be? To me it seems very damaged. Doesn't really resonate happiness seeing such continual postings on the negative side really. As for disrespect, open advice where needed is fine. I just think a lot of what you ask the answers may have come better from just simple communication with your boyfriend or just overlooking small insignificant things, instead of making barriers or walls of silence/confusion which just add to paranoia, conflict and drama. More in the sense of it all making him a third party in many of the resolutions. I personally think as good as the advice given is, it seems to prolong things till the next weeks problem and seems like an infinite loop which cannot be good for the future in this relationship or if you carry the same behavior into the next. Where as i think therapy and working on yourself should be your focus. Okay, I can see where you're coming from now.
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 I'm going to bed now (so exhausted), but I can't believe I haven't heard from him. It hurts.
Cobra_X30 Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 This is interesting....cobra would you say that if he felt absolutely sure of Shadow's love he would not have done this (not blaming you Shadow for his actions-just trying to get in his head) or are you saying a certain type of guy will need to have back ups the more he falls hard? Could this explain the obsession for the superficial party girl type? That she would let him have his room, his fun, and he is free to wander back to her on his own? Provided he is acting on interal motivators, then no, there isnt anything shadow can do 'prove' her love. Some guys believe themselves to be unlovable. Thus the thought goes... "she loves me now, but when she really gets to know me she will not love me anymore." This is just one among many such internal dialogues that may lead to such actions. I'd say the superficial party girl attraction... is the same as the cheerleader thing. I really don't see much difference. You realize that high school doesnt end right? It just moves onto a bigger stage. Look, the Paris Hilton types are mostly attractive because they are pretty, they seem simple, and they are emotionally unavailable on a deep level. It's the same reason your going after the emotionally unavailable guys. He has more to offer you because if he changes for you... that boosts your ego twice as much, and is proof of his love. Also it is assumed he will continue to be emotionally distant with other women... thus making you extra special. There are more reasons... but these are the first that come to mind.
Florida Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Provided he is acting on interal motivators, then no, there isnt anything shadow can do 'prove' her love. Some guys believe themselves to be unlovable. Thus the thought goes... "she loves me now, but when she really gets to know me she will not love me anymore." This is just one among many such internal dialogues that may lead to such actions. I'd say the superficial party girl attraction... is the same as the cheerleader thing. I really don't see much difference. You realize that high school doesnt end right? It just moves onto a bigger stage. Look, the Paris Hilton types are mostly attractive because they are pretty, they seem simple, and they are emotionally unavailable on a deep level. It's the same reason your going after the emotionally unavailable guys. Those are really good points Cobra. Can I change something I said? I don't like emotionally unavailable guys, that is crazy. I said that for brevity's purpose, I like simple guys. Ones who don't seem like they are 2 steps away from an emotional breakdown. Or maybe I am just reeling at the thought that I am exactly the same as what I put down. Note to self: be superficial type then reveal more complexity after guy earned it. He has more to offer you because if he changes for you... that boosts your ego twice as much, and is proof of his love. Also it is assumed he will continue to be emotionally distant with other women... thus making you extra special. There are more reasons... but these are the first that come to mind. Gah! Smacks forehead, walks away in daze.....oh the bitter truth!
BlueEyedGirl Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Shadowplay, Can you briefly post a pic of your bf in your profile? I'm very curious of what he looks like after following your threads for months...
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) It will be up there for like five minutes... Edited February 6, 2008 by shadowplay
Florida Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 It will be up there for like five minutes... darn!! missed it I like to get a sense of what kind of feeling a person exudes.
allina Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 He said he's not sure, but he doesn't "think" he would have. He said he can't be sure, though, because his memory of the incident is so foggy. He's basically telling you that he tried to and would have cheated if he hadn't gotten shot down The worst part is he thinks I'm totally overreacting, and was actually angry at me for getting so angry at him. He says it's not that bad since he didn't actually cheat and he was drunk. Can't I forgive 15 seconds of stupidity? He's a smart guy; how can he not see the fallacies in this argument? I asked him if his ex was more vibrant than me, and he said, "well, she was more energetic." He used the fact that at that moment I was lying in bed at 5:00 pm as an example. WTF... Also, the fact that I overslept that morning, totally disregarding the fact that I've been working an exhausting full time job as a legal assistant and taking three classes at night, while he's doing NOTHING. So he tells you he tried to cheat and would have then gets angry, tells you you're over reacting, gives excuses and BLAMES YOU If he was begging you, pleading with you and making serious promises I'd say maybe consider working it out but with the way he's acted, no way! I'm so sorry for the hurt you're going through but please assess this one clearly and move on.
Kamille Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 I know, and that disturbs me to no end. I'd rather be just paranoid or delusional, because I so often have bad feelings about things/people and it scares me to think I might be right most of the time. Seriously EVERY time in my life when I've been insecure about another person's feelings for me (friend or lover) I've turned out to be right. Often people will tell me I'm just being paranoid, but my fears are inevitably confirmed. Every single time. That scares me...because that means I can trust almost no one since everyone seems to let me down. It worries me that this is what you might be getting from all of this. That is a scary perspective and I don't understand why it would be that everyone in your life seems to let you down. I am hoping you can at least rely on your family in times of need. It's curious: I'm basically the opposite. I generally trust people and often find that friends and lovers pull through for me when I'm in need or least expect it (or, in the case of lovers, don't see how they could make things better after a fight or misunderstanding but they do). But it's true that sometimes I clean my addressbook so to speak and only keep the people that are dearest to me around. Also, I went through a bad phase in my early 20s, when high school friendships gave way to fewer, but deeper long-lasting friendships. How are you doing on the making friends front? I remember you were looking for ways to meet people at one time.
Little Shy Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 God, I feel really bad for you right now. This sort of stuff really hurts. Someone mentioned here that it's a lot easier to give relationship advice than to follow it, to that i definately agree & I am guilty of. I will tell you that I had this same thing happen to me in a relationship a few years back. It was one of the most painful relationship experiences I had. The guy persued the heck out of me, I didn't know if I wanted to get into it with him, because he was a bit of a player. But he really made the push. I told him, let's go for it, be bf & gf. About 6 weeks into commitment, I found out he propositioned a girl. How? Because I knew her. She told me. They had had a strictly sex relationship sometime before I started dating him. She did not take him up on this offer, because she knew he was now dating me. I red him the riot act, but for some reason forgave him, and we moved on. Cut to about 4 months later, stuff started seeming off. I knew his ex girlfriend (another girl) was trying to get back in contact with him. Tried to talk to him about it a few times, he said he wasn't interested in her. My intuition told me otherwise though. Then weirder stuff, like picking fights with me out of nowhere (later found out that, the weekend he picked said fight with me, his ex girlfriend was visiting in town). I new something was off, talked candidly to our mutual friends, all who seemed quite like they were tiptoeing around something. (Sucks trying to badger your mutual friends for information) Then, found out the truth. Broke up with him, 1 month later he shipped his out of town ex girl back into town, and she moved in with him. Let me also mention that he COULD NOT have spoke lesser of this ex girlfriend. She was lazy, no motivation, used him for $$, just wanted to pop some kids out with him so she could stay home and smoke pot while he worked his ass off, no respect for her etc. I hope your situation does not play out like this for you. At this point, I would never do that scene again. If I found out, no matter how much later, that in the duration of me being committed to a boyfriend, he propositioned a girl (particularly an ex) I would likely assume this would happen sometime again. I don't waste time anymore picking apart the Why's & If's. It all just breaks down to you trying to make excuses for him, as to why this might have been reasonable....drunk...long time ago...not in love yet...freaked out on commitment.... Who cares?? He acted on impulse, and actually tried to make something happen. Someone who cannot control their impulses will be the first person to cheat, especially when adding liquor. I hope you are doing better today. Once again, I'm just another person adding my 2 cents, I'm sure people advised me when I was going thru this to bail out. But did I? No. That was actually the 1st time ever, I had proof that someone in a relationship cheated on me. I'll will never ignore my intuition, or those signs/behaviors again.
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 To be honest, shadow, every time I come back to LS and read another thread of yours, I am shocked your relationship has survived another week. You've "ended" it so many times already (although I have the feeling you only do it go get his attention, which isn't the most mature approach to relationships), and all you ever write about is how he disappoints you, makes you feel bad/insecure, and how you two are just on completely different wavelengths about everything. To be even more honest, I can't possibly imagine this relationshp working out. He doesn't give you what you need, and you are way too irrational and insecure (although the latter does have strong justification, as this guy is extremely dishonest with you, and has been all along, it seems). I've been following your threads with this guy right from the beginning, and it's such a shame, because I know you do believe you love him, and you do seem like such a genuinely good person. I just really do think it would be in your best interest to move on. Sorry, shadow
Star Gazer Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Shadowplay, Can you briefly post a pic of your bf in your profile? I'm very curious of what he looks like after following your threads for months... It will be up there for like five minutes... darn!! missed it I like to get a sense of what kind of feeling a person exudes. I'm dying to know too!! UGH!
BlueEyedGirl Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Aghhh, went to bed last night and missed the pic (I'm not in US).
BlueEyedGirl Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Yes post it right now if you are online shadowplay.
Author shadowplay Posted February 6, 2008 Author Posted February 6, 2008 Okay, I will for a bit. It's not a spectacular pic or anything, but whatev...
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