from bad to worse...

[shadowplay]

I'm not in a very good state now, so excuse any incoherency below.

 

Where to start. Things had been going surprisingly well. I don't know what happened this week, but something clicked and I finally felt completely in love with my bf. My feelings have been known to fizzle, but this was different. I'm certain of it. Something deepened and clicked into place. It felt permanent, and it still does. It was like I suddenly understood him, and I loved everything about him, including his flaws. I remember lying next to him and wanting to absorb him completely, feeling like I couldn't get physically close enough.

 

It was scary actually. I had gotten used to the comfort of being detached.

 

What followed today was partly my fault, I won't deny it. I'm not sure why I did it. Maybe it was the fear of being vulnerable again, and making sure one last time that I could trust him.

 

I looked at his email. I saw something I shouldn't have. It was wrong to snoop. I wish I hadn't, but what's done is done.

 

I read an email he wrote to his ex girlfriend back in late October apologizing for a lewd drunk text message he had sent her the night before. Apparently she sent him a response asking him what the deal was, and if his girlfriend had broken up with him. In the email he said we were still together and things were actually going well between us so he wasn't sure what had come over him. He said that he did miss her sense of humor and "oohs" and "ahs" during sex occasionally (she was apparently very loud; I'm just average).

 

I actually remember that night. He was living in NY at the time, so we were still long distance but seeing each other on weekends. He had told me earlier that day he would call me that night. I actually waited up all night for him to call; I missed him so much. He never did. The next day he apologized and said a friend had invited him to a bar and he had gotten hammered. Something didn't sit right with me. I suspected he wasn't being completely honest about something. He seemed really guilty. He said he felt guilty about getting drunk, and I remember saying to him why would you feel guilty about that? Are you sure nothing else happened that you feel guilty about? He denied it. I'm never ignoring my intuition again. I knew something was up.

 

I even gave him another opportunity to fess up when I confronted him this afternoon. I said, "remember that night a few months ago...are you sure nothing happened that you felt guilty about or that you wouldn't want me to know about?" He flat out denied it. Then I told him I knew about the text he sent her. First he got angry at me for looking at his email. Then I said to him, "Well, can I see the text?" He refused to show it to me. I said "If you won't show it to me, I'm breaking up with you." He got his phone out but couldn't find it, and claimed it was on the old phone that he lost a few months ago (for what it's worth, I have reason to believe him on this). I asked him to tell me what it said and he claimed he couldn't really remember but it was something along the lines of "I miss you...I miss the feeling of you on top of me" and perhaps asking her if they could hook up. He's not sure about that last part, but it's a possibility.

 

His explanation? He was drunk, lonely and happened to be in her neck of the words (she lives in NY), so was reminded of her.

 

I felt sick to my stomach and told him we were over. He said in an emotionless voice "that makes me sad." Then he proceeded to smoke a cigarette, turn on his computer and play online chess. I kid you not. I felt like laughing, it was such a parody of his emotional detachment.

 

He was prepared to drive me home, but I told him I didn't want to be alone right now. He insisted on going downstairs. I begged him not to leave the room. He said, "What's the point? So you can just interrogate me more, and make me feel worse?" I took his hand and he pulled it away, "let me go." Finally, he agreed to stay a bit longer when I said I was really hurting and didn't want to be alone.

 

As we sat there, at some point it finally hit him and he grew really sad. He said, "I love you so so so much. Please don't do this. Just give me another chance." I told him that I loved him too, that I had been feeling closer than ever to him this week, but my trust is really fragile and I don't know if it can be repaired. He grew so quiet, I couldn't get him to talk. He just lay there mute.

 

It was so painful, guys. I felt simultaneously completely in love with him and betrayed. One of the most uncomfortable feelings I've ever experienced. And I could tell he loved me too. We held each other for hours and said over and over how much we loved each other, but I couldn't get what he had done out of my head.

 

Should I forgive him for this? I realize I've done some terrible things too, but the difference is I've never done anything behind his back or been dishonest with him. I never actually acted on anything, while he was one step removed from cheating on me. I'm convinced that if his ex had gone along with it he would have. He doesn't entirely deny this. His excuse is he was drunk and it was just 15 seconds of stupidness. He also says he didn't realize how much it would have hurt me (WTF). He says is it really worth throwing what we've built for six months over? He also says he didn't love me then as much as he does now and he'd never do something like that now or ever again.

 

I'm really hung up on a few aspects of this:

 

1) I remember how I felt that night. I missed him so, so much that week. He was all I thought about. Just recently we had exchanged "I love yous" for the first time. He was all I thought about. And here he was thinking of f-king his ex and sending her a lewd email, presumably hoping they would hook up. How could he tell me he loved me earlier that day and send her something like that a few hours later? That kills me.

 

2) He claimed from the start of our relationship he was over her. He said he never even loved her, his feelings for her plateaued during their relationship. I never quite trusted him on this, and was never comfortable with the fact that they were still in contact and occasionally met up for lunch.

 

3) From the way he's described her and what I've seen (based on her myspace page), she's bitchy, loud, crass, self-absorbed, not especially bright. Apparently when they were together she would totally dominate the conversation (talking only about herself and her problems), and he could never get a word in. She's basically the complete opposite of me. It pisses me off that he would pine for somebody like her. It makes me feel like he doesn't appreciate me because I'm so different. At least if she were a more likeable person I could understand why he missed her. Know what I mean?

 

4) There are also a few little things. She added him as a friend on facebook recently (I was alerted through my news feed) and he added her back, yet I noticed he deleted the alert from the newsfeed on his profile page as if he were trying to conceal it from me. He's done little things like that in the past where it seems like he's not being totally honest or trying to hide something.

 

5) This is the part that hurt me most, yet may be the least rational (I'm not sure). It's the fact that he's NEVER done anything spontaneously emotional for me, like that text was a spontaneous expression of emotion. And I know he's done stuff like that for other girls he's liked in the past (drive by their house just to see where they live at three in the morning, what have you). But his expressions to me are always tempered. I wish just once he had done something for me a little out of control because he missed/loved me that much and was swept up in the moment. He said to me those things were him being manic, but frankly I'll take mania over emotional flatness any day.

 

What do you guys think? I left things up in the air. We're basically "on break" until further notice. I figured I would sleep on the whole thing.

 

Do you think I should forgive him? On the one hand I've wronged him before, and perhaps it would be only fair to give him another chance. But at the same time I have to protect my own heart. My faith in people is already fragile; I don't know if I can trust him after this. And frankly, the idea of sleeping with him ever again makes me sick. All I think about is her, putting on her ridiculous, wild show, breasts a-flailing, him grinning beneath her. That's what he wants, no? I'll have to share a bed with her if I ever sleep with him again.

 

I love him, finally; undeniably, I do. And the worst part is this has not shaken that. It's just made it more painful.

Edited February 5, 2008 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

He just sent me a text message: "Hey, XXXX, I love you a great deal. I sincerely hope we can work it out and move forward. I am so sorry for hurting you , it was a huge mistake <3"

 

 

It's going to take a lot more than that...

[fray718]

What happened was a long time ago, and I agree he loves you alot more now than when that happened.

 

That being said, do you see him as someone you'd like to be with long term? Is he someone you can actually trust? That is what you have to think about. Try to think logically and not be pulled in by his sweet text messages. Think big picture.

 

I'm the best at giving advice to people here and to my friends, but I'm the worst at following them.

[shadowplay]

What happened was a long time ago, and I agree he loves you alot more now than when that happened.

 

That being said, do you see him as someone you'd like to be with long term? Is he someone you can actually trust? That is what you have to think about. Try to think logically and not be pulled in by his sweet text messages. Think big picture.

 

I'm the best at giving advice to people here and to my friends, but I'm the worst at following them.

 

Yes, if I could trust him I would want to be. But this has really shaken my trust. My trust in him was shaky to begin with...

[allina]

How long were you two together when this happened? Was he officially your bf then?

 

I don't know what you should do but I do think that if you stay with him this will always be in the back of your mind. I've been there and done that with an ex. He didn't cheat but his ex who wanted to be with him was an issue for the entire 15 months we were together. He was back with her a month after I broke up with him so I'm obviously bias about ex gf issues.

 

Have you spoken to him about the face book issue? I think if you stay with him he needs to cut her completely out of his life.

[birdie]

well it happened in October, it sounds like the two of you have progressed a long way since and love each other. what matters is where you are now I think.

 

Unfortunately it is a fact that people can't wipe their exes out of their lives. Occasionally for whatever reason I miss them too - although I tend to refrain from contacting them especially when in a relationship with someone else. It's not meant to be a threat towards the new partner, it's just missing something that was different with another person.

 

I know it hurts but I think I would forgive him.

[shadowplay]

How long were you two together when this happened? Was he officially your bf then?

 

I don't know what you should do but I do think that if you stay with him this will always be in the back of your mind. I've been there and done that with an ex. He didn't cheat but his ex who wanted to be with him was an issue for the entire 15 months we were together. He was back with her a month after I broke up with him so I'm obviously bias about ex gf issues.

 

Have you spoken to him about the face book issue? I think if you stay with him he needs to cut her completely out of his life.

 

We had been official for 2.5 months at that point, going out for 4. What I find most disturbing is he had just recently told me he loved me for the first time.

[Nevermind]

To me, this wouldn't be a reason to break up. It would be a reason to be hurt, to distance myself a little and to make him understand how much he hurt me...but just throwing away everything for one text message sounds too much for me.

 

Do you really, in your heart, believe that he would cheat on you? That he would hurt you deliberately? If the answer is yes, then your relationship is doomed and no matter if you're right or wrong, you don't trust him. Without trust there can be no love.

 

If the answer is no, however, I'd suggest you two talk about it and you let him try to make up for it. If you love him, you won't throw away everything for one mistake, that was stupid but harmless after all.

[wizzlebee]

I had a similar situation with my bf and his ex in the beginning of our relationship and this was years ago. But i still find myself thinking what really happened that day when he was over at her house.He said nothing happened but i dont know, my intuitation tells me otherwise.. But i had to decide what i wanted ,just like you need to decide. I'll never know if something happened , jut like you'll never know if he would have gone through with sleeping with his ex. We just dont know .So u can either choose to trust him and believe him and continue your relationship or break up with him.

As for the moans and groans in bed. Hey im with you on that one. I dont know what to say

[allina]

We had been official for 2.5 months at that point, going out for 4. What I find most disturbing is he had just recently told me he loved me for the first time.

 

Ouch, to me that's bad. I would leave a relationship in this case, it would just never be the same for me. How are you feeling about things today?

[Kamille]

You know what striked me the most about this? It kind of confirms that your insecurities were grounded on something - at least at that time.

 

I don't know if that's a deal-breaker or the starting-point to a healthier relationship.

 

Hope you're feeling better. ((shadowplay)).

[Star Gazer]

Did you ask him what he would have done if she had responded to that text message with a, "Come on over"?

[Florida]

Erasing all the recent events, even if they never happened, he still had sent that text.

 

Shadow, I've taken a lot of crap in my life, I'm not proud of it, but an unequivocal sex text, even sent while drunk would be the end for me.

 

It's because I know i would obsess over it, and never be able to let it go.

 

I've taken a lot of crap that was vague, grey, is it or isn't it type scenarios....

 

I would need to be hit over the head with something, and to me that text is the something.

 

October is far back in his email history...what made you look that far back? I probably would have gotten bored by page 1. Was it your intuition spurring you on?

 

I think it is extra painful because i recall your post, I recall you talking about that night, worrying that he may be talking to another girl at the bar when he was out.

 

Wow, is all I can say. Your intuition was spot on. So, words written in stone are a deal breaker for me.

 

Something about seing them, they can't be rationalized away. Especially because it explains his previous distance.

 

Like Kamille said, you were insecure about him because you sensed something. I recall Ariadne saying that too.

 

That is bad enough, but the physical text as proof is too much.

[Florida]

Oh, and i completely relate to not liking her as a person.

 

My BF liked this girl before we met, I met her (they were still friends-great-right?) and she was classic attention whore.

 

Superficial, talkative, center of attention, provocative, the kind of girl who throws parties because she can't stand being alone. A heavy social drinker. Flippant, was all about the non sequiters and oh so ironic attidute.

 

It was all about her, her, her. It made me really bring down my estimation on his judgement.

 

I always asked him-how in the world could you have liked her type, and then like me?? And reading her type, I don't know Shadow....what is it with the crass self centered party girl?

 

You said he was emotionally flat most of the time- my BF is similar. I think these girls fill that void, providing buzz and vim and vigor, superficial as they are, to the flat line of their emotions.

 

They get an attentive audience, the boys get to feel emotion by vicarious default.

[Saxis]

Superficial, talkative, center of attention, provocative, the kind of girl who throws parties because she can't stand being alone. A heavy social drinker. Flippant, was all about the non sequiters and oh so ironic attidute.

 

It was all about her, her, her. It made me really bring down my estimation on his judgement.

 

Do you know my X??

 

They get an attentive audience, the boys get to feel emotion by vicarious default.

 

I wondered if this was why I was attracted to her in the first place. Good point.

[Florida]

Do you know my X??

 

 

 

I wondered if this was why I was attracted to her in the first place. Good point.

 

Thanks Saxis. These kind of girls really grate on me, yet I'm really jealous of them because they seem to be the heartbreakers, many guys are obsessed with having them.

 

They tend to have fear of commitment, and spread themselves very thin socially. A guy will feel he has a lot of competition, even though it is all generated artificially (never underestimate how much effort this type puts into making sure they are responded to under any circumstances!! They defy all social boundaries, and most don't give a damn about other's, although they can give a good front that they do.

 

Narcissistic

[Cobra_X30]

We had been official for 2.5 months at that point, going out for 4. What I find most disturbing is he had just recently told me he loved me for the first time.

 

Well that part makes sense. Because at that moment he had the feeling that he was falling for you, and it more than likely scared him. That's a typical commitment issue.

 

Question... is this before or after you told him that you had a thing for his friend?

[Florida]

Well that part makes sense. Because at that moment he had the feeling that he was falling for you, and it more than likely scared him. That's a typical commitment issue.

 

Question... is this before or after you told him that you had a thing for his friend?

 

I'll answer if Shadow isn't around yet.

He did that way, way before.

He had NO excuse.

 

 

Throughout their relationship Shadow seeemed very attentive, yet insecure.

 

He was verbally committed, yet his actions made her feel very insecure, due to his lack of passion. This worried her more due to that she knew he had felt very obsessively over ex's who gave him much less, and treated him rather dismissively.

 

She told him about the friend at month 6.

 

A new spin is put on it with recent developments that she may have sensed this betrayal and emotional remove from him throughout the relationship, hence she turned to the friend who seemed more emotionally available.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Florida

[shadowplay]

Did you ask him what he would have done if she had responded to that text message with a, "Come on over"?

 

He said he's not sure, but he doesn't "think" he would have. He said he can't be sure, though, because his memory of the incident is so foggy. I don't know, guys... From the way he put it, I really got the sense he would have or there's a strong possibility he would have.

[shadowplay]

You know what striked me the most about this? It kind of confirms that your insecurities were grounded on something - at least at that time.

 

I don't know if that's a deal-breaker or the starting-point to a healthier relationship.

 

Hope you're feeling better. ((shadowplay)).

 

I know, and that disturbs me to no end. I'd rather be just paranoid or delusional, because I so often have bad feelings about things/people and it scares me to think I might be right most of the time. Seriously EVERY time in my life when I've been insecure about another person's feelings for me (friend or lover) I've turned out to be right. Often people will tell me I'm just being paranoid, but my fears are inevitably confirmed. Every single time. That scares me...because that means I can trust almost no one since everyone seems to let me down.

[Replicant]

I would honestly let this relationship go, and focus on serious therapy so someday you can actually look forward to a decent relationship without all this over analyzing, push-pull, charades and constant drama.

 

Honestly I think this relationship was shot to hell a long time ago. You just don't seem to understand how to approach a relationship and work at it in a positive and healthy means to progression, Without having every small bump in the road go under the magnifying glass which is Love shack. You've basically purged the whole thing to love shack since the get go, almost chronicles and updates of a extremely unhealthy relationship. Let alone a disrespect to your boyfriend for not working out these every day things with him before seeking public approval. It's not someone coming to LS with and issue asking for advice on how to cope with or seek resolution. It's something new each week, and in such a young relationship at that...Do you not view this as problematic? I just cannot possibly see any sort of advice to give to someone whom is casting almost every single element of their relationship to be determined through advice over an internet forum.

[shadowplay]

Ouch, to me that's bad. I would leave a relationship in this case, it would just never be the same for me. How are you feeling about things today?

 

I'm miserable. Every time the thought of what he did pops into my head I have to crush it immediately because I start to get physically ill. I also feel trapped. I'm in so deep at this point. It will hurt so much to lose him; I'm afraid to let go. Why couldn't this have happened two weeks ago when I was less attached?

 

The worst part is he thinks I'm totally overreacting, and was actually angry at me for getting so angry at him. He says it's not that bad since he didn't actually cheat and he was drunk. Can't I forgive 15 seconds of stupidity? He's a smart guy; how can he not see the fallacies in this argument?

 

I asked him if his ex was more vibrant than me, and he said, "well, she was more energetic." He used the fact that at that moment I was lying in bed at 5:00 pm as an example. WTF...

 

Also, the fact that I overslept that morning, totally disregarding the fact that I've been working an exhausting full time job as a legal assistant and taking three classes at night, while he's doing NOTHING.

[shadowplay]

I would honestly let this relationship go, and focus on serious therapy so someday you can actually look forward to a decent relationship without all this over analyzing, push-pull, charades and constant drama.

 

Honestly I think this relationship was shot to hell a long time ago. You just don't seem to understand how to approach a relationship and work at it in a positive and healthy means to progression, Without having every small bump in the road go under the magnifying glass which is Love shack. You've basically purged the whole thing to love shack since the get go, almost chronicles and updates of a extremely unhealthy relationship. Let alone a disrespect to your boyfriend for not working out these every day things with him before seeking public approval. It's not someone coming to LS with and issue asking for advice on how to cope with or seek resolution. It's something new each week, and in such a young relationship at that...Do you not view this as problematic? I just cannot possibly see any sort of advice to give to someone whom is casting almost every single element of their relationship to be determined through advice over an internet forum.

 

I ultimately make decisions about the relationship based on what I want, not what others tell me, but getting outside opinions helps me sort out my thoughts. It's true that getting advice over the internet is not ideal, but I have few people I can turn to in real life (I have no female friends). How is it disrespectful to him? I'm not allowed to get advice or outside input? Most women rehash the details of their relationships with girlfriends. I don't have that luxury.

 

I can see how you might view some of my other posts as overly obsessive, but this time it isn't just a little "speed bump." If anything, what he did confirms many of my insecurities, as others have pointed out.

 

I am seeking therapy (trying to find a new therapist), but this is the only relationship I've been in where I've been so insecure. That suggests the relationship may be to blame more than my own problems.

Edited February 6, 2008 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

Thanks Saxis. These kind of girls really grate on me, yet I'm really jealous of them because they seem to be the heartbreakers, many guys are obsessed with having them.

 

They tend to have fear of commitment, and spread themselves very thin socially. A guy will feel he has a lot of competition, even though it is all generated artificially (never underestimate how much effort this type puts into making sure they are responded to under any circumstances!! They defy all social boundaries, and most don't give a damn about other's, although they can give a good front that they do.

 

Narcissistic

 

Yes! I feel exactly the same way. Why do all men fall for this type? It sickens me. As bad as women can be in their own way, at least most don't fall for the male equivalent of this type.

[shadowplay]

Oh, and i completely relate to not liking her as a person.

 

My BF liked this girl before we met, I met her (they were still friends-great-right?) and she was classic attention whore.

 

Superficial, talkative, center of attention, provocative, the kind of girl who throws parties because she can't stand being alone. A heavy social drinker. Flippant, was all about the non sequiters and oh so ironic attidute.

 

It was all about her, her, her. It made me really bring down my estimation on his judgement.

 

I always asked him-how in the world could you have liked her type, and then like me?? And reading her type, I don't know Shadow....what is it with the crass self centered party girl?

 

You said he was emotionally flat most of the time- my BF is similar. I think these girls fill that void, providing buzz and vim and vigor, superficial as they are, to the flat line of their emotions.

 

They get an attentive audience, the boys get to feel emotion by vicarious default.

 

Yes, again! Your sense of human nature is scary. I feel like you really understand my situation. You've given voice to so many of my thoughts. Thank you.

 

Just a few things I wanted to add.

 

What disturbs me most about guys having affinity for this type of girl is it's all about superficial attributes. Beneath my shy exterior, I'm actually pretty spunky and talkative...but that doesn't matter. What guys care about more is how a girl acts in public, how she comes across to others. If she's popular. It's not about getting to know the real person. And it seems like the lower a guy's self esteem, the more he lusts after the crass extrovert to fill his identity void.

 

My bf hasn't contacted me since that text message last night. For all his promises of going the distance to prove his trust to me last night, all I get is a measly text message...

Edited February 6, 2008 by shadowplay