Return of the OW

[whichwayisup]

Leave her alone and heal yourself. If anything, she'll respect you more if you are alone for a while. You just ended your marriage and now chasing her. Stop.

[annabelle75]

Thanks, I'm not a bad person, just in this case because for once I know what I want, maybe not exactly, but I know what I don't want, exactly! I don't know if M would have ever ended, but something had to change. Dramatically! Back to the questions at hand. How do I approach OW to see if it was real or illusion? Or does the sunset and we all just move on?

 

ask her out on date. like dinner or a movie. approach it like any other relationship. don't rush it. take your time and court her.

[Lovelybird]

Here is a link about healing and marriage, very interesting and moving

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2004/001/17.50.html

 

when you are with someone through many years, you'd face same problems or similar problems you were facing in your marriage. marriage is about "WILL and working". think about when you married your wife, did she put a gun on your head? didn't you fall in love with her at the time just as you fall in love your ow? so what changed? if without forgiveness and will to work through difficult times in marriage, the next one is hard to survive as well

[mtndew]

LB, I will reiterate what I have posted earlier, my R experience earlier in life was not very deep. I was late '20's everyone was getting married and having kids, W was the closest to M material I had ever had an R with. As stated earlier, sorry for the repeat, I did love her, but was not madly in love with her. I had no idea what real true love was like. OW showed me not necessarily what love was like, but she showed me enough to know there is sooooo much more to love and to life. More than the constant negativity I was surrounded and held back with.

 

WWIU - thanks for the words of wisdom. I feel that is probably the best thing to do. Leave everything and everyone alone and work on myself first. The old analogy I have used thru this ordeal is that of being on an airplane. When the oxygen masks first come down, what do they tell you to do? Fix YOURSELF first... then take care of those around you. If you can't breath right, you can't function right, you can't think clearly enough to take care of the issues at hand. Same thing? Me first, for once in my life.

 

Had a great weekend with my kids. All of us had fun, laughed, cut up, talked about things, it was fabulous. No W bashing, just reinforcement.

Now we are ready for the next scene in this so-called B Movie with bad actors.

[Owl]

OK...you want the next scene?

 

You've moved out. Now you can continue your affair with OW in peace.

 

Things will hit "the next level". They're going to be GREAT! More intimacy, more time together, less stress from the wife.

 

Your wife is going to be going crazy, however. She's now hurt beyond belief. She doesn't know what she wants to do from here. One moment, she's going to be working with you...nice to you, etc...the next, she's going to hate your guts.

 

What happens from there does depend on a couple of things. If your wife is smart, she'll get some good counseling on how to deal with all of this. She'll get a PLAN. She'll start making changes. She'll be doing the things that attracted you to her years ago. She'll start meeting those emotional needs of yours that she hadn't in a long time. She'll start making you realize what you've given up by leaving her.

 

In a few months (or possibly even sooner) you're going to be a little more unsure in your decision.

 

In the meantime, your relationship with OW has taken on new turns. Its more than you ever thought it would be...and less. She's not the exact same person you thought she was. There are things about her that you overlooked before, but as time goes on, they become more and more pronounced. And she's seeing the exact same thing about you.

 

Not to mention her complete distrust of any interaction you have with your wife/ex-wife....or any other ladies. She knows that you cheated on your wife to be with her...will you do the same to her? She doesn't want to believe that you can...but she knows that you did it before...successfully. What's to prevent it from happening again?

 

Now...if your wife doesn't get "help"...she may not change. But that won't change the doubt your OW will have in you, nor will it affect the way your relationship with her changes over time.

 

There ya go. There's your "next chapter".

[mtndew]

OWL, maybe so. A few things need a simple rewrite. W will stay in counseling as she has for the last 25 years, dates back to pre-me. Its a long drawn out saga which would explain a lot of the root here, course I have watered the root as well and allowed this thing to grow for a good portion of those years. I never said I knew life with OW would be all roses, I said I wanted to get to know her better on several levels, which in turn would allow me to get to know me better on several levels. I do however know that in the short period we were connected, there was a deeper link to each other, mentally and physically than there ever was with W. It was rather telepathic in a strange way, I knew what she was thinking and where she was going before she ever opened her mouth. And vice versa. I'm no Tom Cruise, she is very attractive, so what drew her to me was the mental intrigue and mystery that I produce. Not just another slick tongued pretty boy. As far as her trusting me in the future, she knows my past, that there have been oportunities that I have been totally professional about and ignored. It would be totally up to me to build the Trust Factor into this like I never did with W. I did not feel I could ever be totally honest with W about certain things. Things like bills due that I would always try to cushion the blow to make things seem less threatening than they were. With OW I have nothing to hide. But does she? Who knows. I just would like to get to know her better.

[Owl]

I just would like to get to know her better.

 

Fair enough. What day this week do you have your mtg with the lawyer to file D papers?

 

Nothing to it but to do it...

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm no Tom Cruise, she is very attractive, so what drew her to me was the mental intrigue and mystery that I produce.

 

I'm sorry but I just have to ask. Do you make great money? Intrigue and mystery??? What's that about???

 

As far as her trusting me in the future, she knows my past, that there have been oportunities that I have been totally professional about and ignored.

 

So, it gives you integrity that you didn't cheat before but are now???

 

She may know you hon, but she doesn't know you like your wife does.

 

I did not feel I could ever be totally honest with W about certain things. Things like bills due that I would always try to cushion the blow to make things seem less threatening than they were. With OW I have nothing to hide. But does she?

 

Those bills? Just wait until you have to pay them with OW. See, right now it's all sweetness and light with OW. You never have to talk to her about bills, the kids, never have to have a negative discussion with her. You're seeing the best side of her- and she is seeing the best side of you.

 

That all changes once you get together and start having to live a real life. Then it will be basically the same thing it was with your wife, after a period of time. Unless you learn how to build a better relationship and really keep working on one.

 

I'm not slamming you by any means. I've been a cheating spouse so I know where you're coming from. I also know that right now you're caught up in the addiction of the affair. I know you won't believe me but I thought I'd share my story with you anyway.

[mtndew]

I make a decent wage, self employed. Intrigue and mystery? my work is a very creative process so I believe I do not think or act like most "guys". OW and I worked side by side for almost 2 months, not daily side by side but in contact daily. Once in my place, I challenged her mind, her heart and her soul. I shared with her some things that are of interest to me, like studying people and sharing music and art. She loved every bit and we got into some absolutley fantastic conversations which eventually led to some very close and personal revealing conversations. I know, I know, this is such a boring script that been written a million times. Sure I'll talk sports all day long but it is not the be all and end all. We laughed and had fun, we sang in the car, not pretty but a blast, we played golf, rode bikes. She was very physically active and works crazy hours. Likewise me. I challenged her on multiple levels which piqued her interest. By not pushing the PA, that intrigued her even more. I was attempting to build a foundation for a better relationship, one I never built with my W. W and I went from hello to the sack very quickly, so the R was not built on a proper foundation so if, that's a scary word, something were to happen down the road, foundation with OW would be strong.

 

As far as bills, kids, etc. the difference is OW makes a decent living, in recent years W spent a decent living x 2. The other difference is the overall attitude and mental aliveness of OW vs. W. I know I haven't seen the ugly side. I keep saying that I would like to have the time to get to know her enough to see the ugly side and her mine.

 

Finally MZP, I am glad for what you are saying and I don't take it as slamming. If I was worried about getting slammed I wouldn't have done this thread to begin with. Now that I know part of your past and that we have that in common, how long does the addiction last? Or what can be done to get over it? And now I am going to flip flop on you and ask you what I asked a few posts previous, do I just sit on my hands, let some time pass, or do I call and ask her to dinner? Or do I get on my 'ol horse Trigger and ride off into the thunderstorm? I mean the sunset.

[annabelle75]

OK...you want the next scene?

 

You've moved out. Now you can continue your affair with OW in peace.

 

Things will hit "the next level". They're going to be GREAT! More intimacy, more time together, less stress from the wife.

 

Your wife is going to be going crazy, however. She's now hurt beyond belief. She doesn't know what she wants to do from here. One moment, she's going to be working with you...nice to you, etc...the next, she's going to hate your guts.

 

What happens from there does depend on a couple of things. If your wife is smart, she'll get some good counseling on how to deal with all of this. She'll get a PLAN. She'll start making changes. She'll be doing the things that attracted you to her years ago. She'll start meeting those emotional needs of yours that she hadn't in a long time. She'll start making you realize what you've given up by leaving her.

 

In a few months (or possibly even sooner) you're going to be a little more unsure in your decision.

 

In the meantime, your relationship with OW has taken on new turns. Its more than you ever thought it would be...and less. She's not the exact same person you thought she was. There are things about her that you overlooked before, but as time goes on, they become more and more pronounced. And she's seeing the exact same thing about you.

 

Not to mention her complete distrust of any interaction you have with your wife/ex-wife....or any other ladies. She knows that you cheated on your wife to be with her...will you do the same to her? She doesn't want to believe that you can...but she knows that you did it before...successfully. What's to prevent it from happening again?

 

Now...if your wife doesn't get "help"...she may not change. But that won't change the doubt your OW will have in you, nor will it affect the way your relationship with her changes over time.

 

There ya go. There's your "next chapter".

 

 

This entire post is the "Betrayed Spouse Fantasy Wish List" that they use to comfort themselves when they go to bed at night. This is what they keep telling themselves instead of just acknowledging that their relationship is over and perhaps they were never meant to last.

 

Its also the story they tell when scaring "evil spouses" that try to leave them into staying. Sadly for them, the little scenario above doesn't happen often. If it did, there weren't be so many angry bitter BS out there seeking revenge.

 

Back to reality ........ there is no set script for what is about to happen. Every relationship is different. There is no magic ball that will tell you where to go from here. The only advice I can give is to take it slowly. Figure out who you are outside of the marriage and proceed from there.

 

And as a side note for all those here that keep refering to him dating now as "having an affair" ........ ONCE A MAN MOVES OUT OF YOUR HOME AND TELLS YOU HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU ANYMORE HE CAN DATE WHOEVER WANTS AND IT IS NOT AN AFFAIR! Just because you don't want him to leave you, doesn't mean he hasn't and can't legally date. Legally, when he moves out he can legally declare you as being separated and courts will not consider his dating as "infidelity." Denial that the marriage is ending doesn't mean he is cheating. Just thought I'd clear that up since some of you can't seem to acknowledge that him dating now is not an A. Infact, anyone he dates is not an OW. She would be classified as a SO now. The BS no longer holds that title.

[Owl]

This entire post is the "Betrayed Spouse Fantasy Wish List" that they use to comfort themselves when they go to bed at night. This is what they keep telling themselves instead of just acknowledging that their relationship is over and perhaps they were never meant to last.

 

Really?

 

That's really odd. I've seen it happen several times over the last 3 years of posting on this and other infidelity sites. I've also watched it happen in 2 seperate friendships where the marriage was broken up by cheating.

 

ONCE A MAN MOVES OUT OF YOUR HOME AND TELLS YOU HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU ANYMORE HE CAN DATE WHOEVER WANTS AND IT IS NOT AN AFFAIR!

 

Sorry, not true. He's still married. Its no longer an affair when he's DIVORCED. Not rocket science here.

 

If you've seen anywhere near the number of MP that I've seen waffle back and forth, move in and out several times, you'd realize the odds are rather high that the marriage is NOT over yet.

 

As far as "legally date"...again...then what's the purpose of DIVORCE? Isn't that the "legal end of the marriage"?

 

As for no "set script"...post your own story here on your own thread...I'd love to see how your situation was UNIQUE. I've yet to see a single "unique" situation after three years here and on other boards. Perhaps you'll surprise me?

[annabelle75]

Really?

 

That's really odd. I've seen it happen several times over the last 3 years of posting on this and other infidelity sites. I've also watched it happen in 2 seperate friendships where the marriage was broken up by cheating.

 

 

 

Sorry, not true. He's still married. Its no longer an affair when he's DIVORCED. Not rocket science here.

 

If you've seen anywhere near the number of MP that I've seen waffle back and forth, move in and out several times, you'd realize the odds are rather high that the marriage is NOT over yet.

 

As far as "legally date"...again...then what's the purpose of DIVORCE? Isn't that the "legal end of the marriage"?

 

As for no "set script"...post your own story here on your own thread...I'd love to see how your situation was UNIQUE. I've yet to see a single "unique" situation after three years here and on other boards. Perhaps you'll surprise me?

 

Several? Wow !!!!! I guess that means you're right then and cheating husbands always come crawling back . Hmmmm ...... I wonder why the divorce rate is so high then.

 

And don't get me started on the legalities of divorce. I'm a paralegal. When you file for divorce you state the date you "moved out of the marital residence." It is at this point that the marital relationship is considered severed financially and otherwise (legally seperated). Once he moves out, its over. He can date who ever he wants. In most states he can even win the lottery and he wouldn't have to share it with you.

 

And I have told my stories here too many times to count. I don't feel the need to share it all again. Look up my old posts if you really want to.

 

The basis of my stance on how to deal with As, is to never try to guilt some one in staying in a marriage that makes them unhappy. Its up to them to figure out if they are truly unhappy and if so I'm all about helping with the exit strategy. But in the end it is up to them, not some anonymous people on the internet to decide what is best for them. I also don't fall into the "if you have children you are obligated to stay in a bad marriage" camp. So, that pretty much sums up how I feel.

[Mz. Pixie]

Finally MZP, I am glad for what you are saying and I don't take it as slamming. If I was worried about getting slammed I wouldn't have done this thread to begin with. Now that I know part of your past and that we have that in common, how long does the addiction last? Or what can be done to get over it? And now I am going to flip flop on you and ask you what I asked a few posts previous, do I just sit on my hands, let some time pass, or do I call and ask her to dinner? Or do I get on my 'ol horse Trigger and ride off into the thunderstorm? I mean the sunset.

 

The wayward mentality lasted about two years. By saying that I mean, the justification that I'd used to have the affair. Kinda the same kinds of things that you're saying in this thread. I felt justified because of the way my H had treated me.

 

But, hear my clearly- there was nothing that he did that justified what I did.

And it's not in your situation either.

 

I didn't separate or divorce to pursue my affair partner so I really can't advise you on that end. My affair was done and over before I divorced my ex.

 

What I do advise is being divorced completely before you pursue this woman. I think you're not thinking clearly right now because of the "fog" from the affair and that cooling off period would give you time to get your head on straight. If you guys have something so special surely it can wait until you can divorce your wife properly????

[mtndew]

MZP - Don't think there's much to do about it anyway. OW and I just finished up a work project, yes the one I crossed the line on. During the project OW was good. Upon crossing the line, I left the house and finished the project. Upon completion and delivery of project we had a very brief 5 minute conversation revealing my leaving, she was not shocked, not excited, just kind of there. Then in a rush last week, she was on her cell, dropped off the check, said hi and left. I sent her a thank you text and extended an offer for lunch to catch up. No response. Yesterday afternoon sent her an email with another question, work related, and again extended the invitation. Still no response. One of 2 things has happened. She is letting me shake everything out before saying or doing anything or she has lost total interest due to a multitude of things. Is it abnormal for me to want to know where I stand on the deal, dead or alive? Is it wrong for me to want the answer, and if it is right for peace of mind. How do you approach from here?

 

Now on to a more serious question. My oldest son is having an extremely difficult time. And me doing my thing is only adding serious excellerant to a combustible situation that could have long term repurcusions. Is it time I give up the ghost, suck up any visions of dreams I have had and move back home? I have gotten a big handle on catching up on all of my work and files, since that is about all I have done for the last 2 weeks.

 

It just really makes me unbelievably mad at myself that I can see things happening around me which I know are so much of my doing, because of this addiction thing in paragraph one of this post. I just need to totally walk away from any thought of OW, get my act totally together, which I was making headway, and make what I had, a decent at times, sometimes rocky, sometimes great M, the best it could ever be. But HOW DO YOU WALK AWAY FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN A BIG PART OF YOUR HEART, the part you should be giving to your spouse. If I put the energy into my M and W that I have wasted on OW, it's hard to tell what could happen. But is it too late, is W over the top? I have an appointment this afternoon with a counselor who knows the whole routine. Maybe sometime soon it will ALL make sense. I told counselor when all this happened I did not want any medication because for once I wanted to feel the full range of emotions, the highs and the lows, but man I didn't know this roller coaster would have as much as it has.

[Owl]

We can't tell you if its too late or not with your wife. We're not there. Your wife's thresholds for tolerance may have already been exceeded. She may have already written you off, given your actions.

 

But she might not have too.

 

There's no way to know what will happen until you try.

 

Its up to you more than anything else.

 

As far as how do you walk away? Its simple...its NOT easy...but it IS simple. See the difference? All you have to do is exactly that...walk away. Break off any contact with OW whatsoever.

 

It will HURT. You ARE addicted to how she makes you feel...no doubt about it.

 

But just like any addiction, going cold turkey over time can allow you to break the addiction. But again, like any addiction, that means you're going to have to go through the withdrawls of going without your "drug of choice" for a while first. It will be HORRIBLE. Its a rollercoaster ride...somedays up, somedays down.

 

I nursed my wife through her withdrawl at the loss of OM...and watched her mind and heart completely change as a result. This was over three years ago...and guess what...she's as in love with me now as she's ever been.

 

Getting past that addiction is SIMPLE (not a lot of steps)...but its NOT EASY.

 

I think you're starting to see how much these affairs hurt EVERYONE...even those peripherally involved, like your son. Its DEVESTATING...and your wife is undoubtedly feeling far, far worse than your son is at this point.

 

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to guilt you into staying with your wife. I DO believe in being responsible for the results of your actions, and I've berated you for not giving that proper thought. What you need to do is to think about what the impacts are going to be if you do continue this affair (and it IS an affair...you're still married...regardless of other people's opinons). How is all of this going to affect everyone around you. Do you see any kind of happy ending...for ANYONE...if you proceed? Realistically...do you?

 

 

Its up to you.

 

You've actually done the right thing by getting the affair out in the open now. At least now, everyone can know what the REAL issue is, and work to deal with it.

 

Now you just need to figure out what you're going to do from here.

[Shane7]

I -hate- people who do this to their wives..

 

So incredibly weak and selfish.

[mtndew]

Owl thanks for the input!! I know you've berated me in the past, but that's what this forum is all about. I don't expect everyone to line up and applaud you. I wanted both sides.

 

NOW - SHANE7, what is your story? What's your life like? Are you happily married? Has YOUR spouse ever cheated on you? I know you are too far above it to ever cheat. If you're married to a wonderful person and have a fabulous M, more power to you. If you struggle in your M but work it out all of the time, more power to you. If all this is true, you are where I was for 22 years!!!! I was the most selfless person, I never did ANYTHING for ME. I was so silently strong, I was the hulk. I am, or was, the proverbial people pleaser, anything for anybody at any time, at my expense. W, kids, parents, inlaws, friends, coworkers, strangers, the list goes on. And I did it because I enjoyed it, NOT because I wanted any accolades. My reward is the smiles. And I will continue to do it, because I enjoy making people smile. One thing I am learning on this so called mid-life journey is I AM AND WILL ALWAYS BE A DECENT, CARING HUMAN BEING! I'll agree totally for the last 9 months I've put anyone and everyone involved thru HELL, but that still will not change what my core is all about. It will come thru stronger than ever when this is over. But thru the years I got tired on all levels. I got bankrupt and someone, OW walked thru my door.

We quickly got to know each other and one day she reminded me I was a wonderful person with a beautiful soul. I was fun, funny, but still serious enough to round out picture. That I was extremely talented at what I do and that I have what it takes to blow thru it the roof and move it to an entirely new level where I could reap the financial benefits like never before. That I treated people the old-fashioned way, with honor and respect. She had connections, She had the drive. She was dynamic. She was fun and she had the knack of waking me up. And she did. She also sent a spark to my heart like no one else ever had, W included. She also woke W up. She also was the catalyst, NOT THE CAUSE, of shaking up, not breaking up, yet, my M. She was also of the caliber of woman to walk away from what could have been an incredible R, both personally and professionally. NOW MAYBE if W would have been more attentive, less demanding, less of a B, less angry..... maybe if should would have GIVEN occassionaly instead of always TAKING and demanding more... then the EA that occured with OW might not have ever happened. AND MAYBE THEN I WOULD'T HAVE DONE THIS HORRENDOUS THING TO MY W!!!!!!!

 

NOW, I wish you luck with your ever so happy, ever so perfect life and I hope you NEVER have to be challenged like what I've been thru. I hope that you are as strong and selfless as you say, God knows we need more of you around. You are definately one of the chosen ones who were born with luck on your side. You probably had the perfect childhood, married the perfect mate, have perfect children and skip down the lane singing Kumbaya every morning as the sun beams down on your smiling face. But BEFORE you pop off and say something as bold as you did, I hope YOU are as perfect as YOU think you are.

[twice_shy]

I'm no Tom Cruise, she is very attractive, so what drew her to me was the mental intrigue and mystery that I produce. Not just another slick tongued pretty boy. .

 

Well if thats the case, don't expect her to hold that view of you for long if you ever become a couple.

 

Newflash, there is mystery and intrigue about almost everyone in a new relationship. That does and WILL wear off as a relationship goes on.

 

The difference between someone who can handle long term relationships and can't is, will they get bored once that "intrigue and mystery" wears off?

[twice_shy]

NOW MAYBE if W would have been more attentive, less demanding, less of a B, less angry..... maybe if should would have GIVEN occassionaly instead of always TAKING and demanding more... then the EA that occured with OW might not have ever happened. AND MAYBE THEN I WOULD'T HAVE DONE THIS HORRENDOUS THING TO MY W!!!!!!!

 

Ah, I see. So your behavior is her fault eh?

[Owl]

NOW MAYBE if W would have been more attentive, less demanding, less of a B, less angry..... maybe if should would have GIVEN occassionaly instead of always TAKING and demanding more... then the EA that occured with OW might not have ever happened. AND MAYBE THEN I WOULD'T HAVE DONE THIS HORRENDOUS THING TO MY W!!!!!!!

 

Maybe...

 

I'd agree, this is a rough situation.

 

But I want to ask you to give some serious thought to some things real quick.

 

This is how your wife acted...this is how your wife treated you. I get that.

 

What did you do (before the affair) to change the situation?

 

Have you ever (before the affair) attempted to get her into counseling for anger/control/etc...?

 

Have you ever set a boundary with her (before the affair) on what you would/would not accept from her in terms of how she treated/dealt with you?

 

Did you ever sit her down (before the affair) and say "I love you, but I don't love this part of you, and if it doesn't change..."?

 

Did you ever (before the affair) make it clear to her how unhappy and hurt her behavior and actions made you feel? SHOW her how much it hurt?

 

During MC, this was a focal point my wife refused to face for the longest time. Now, I've always treated my wife as lovingly as I could...but communication broke down, and there were things that my wife wasn't happy with. She felt that this led to the affair (much as you do). Our counselor fought for the longest time to get her to realize that she had shirked her part of the problem...she needed to TELL ME that she was unhappy. With specifics...so that I could do something about it. She hadn't...because I WOULD have made changes if I had known how unhappy she was...and I DID, once it all came out.

 

And the other thing she struggled with...HER CHOICE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR WAS HER CHOICE...regardless of her happiness in the marriage. She had to realize that I was living in that same unhappy marriage (and it WAS unhappy for that last year or so)...but her CHOICE to be unfaithful was her CHOICE...and was a seperate issue from the 'state of the marriage'.

 

We had to first and foremost deal with the affair (which was killing our chances of a happy relationship FAR, FAR faster than the other stuff). Once that was dealt with, we spent the next year fixing the other things.

 

BUT WE COULDN'T FIX THOSE THINGS UNTIL WE FIXED THE THING KILLING OUR MARRIAGE THE FASTEST...THE AFFAIR.

 

Its like working the ER...you have to fix the fact that the patient isn't breathing BEFORE you worry about stitches.

 

Take ownership of the things you have responsibility in. Recognize your part in things. Even if you don't reconcile with your wife, it'll give you the chance of building a better relationship with someone in the future.

[mtndew]

Damn straight! I worked by butt off to make it work, I took more sxxt than you ever would have. You would never have made it to the alter, I was just a green knucklehead at the time and never knew any different. So my behavior is my anger at myself for letting everything, EVERYTHING, develop to where it is. Realistically I know I am at as much as fault as she is for not being "the man" from the get go.

 

As far as the intrigue goes, my w is still intrigued with who I am, what makes me tick, things I'm interested in and things I will get interested in. I'm like the shark, I find things I enjoy and I share with others and then they enjoy, but I am always looking for new things to enjoy and share, different things to have deep conversations about, thus the mystique. And like the shark, if I'm not moving, i'm dying. Things out of the normal middle of the road. That's the mystique that caught OW attention as well and I have no doubt I could keep her engaged in activity. As far as down the road in an R w/OW, I don't know, I have stated a half dozen times already, I don't know, but I wanted to try to get to know more about her and vice versa.

[momto4boys]

Okay, I get that you were in an unhappy marriage. But, from where I stand, you need to s*&^ or get off the pot. We're only hearing one side, but the victim you are not. If you felt you were so mistreated, then get out. Leave your wife to find herself and maybe someone who is right for her. Jumping into a relationship with someone else is never a good idea. Our minister told us before we got married that if you think the grass is greener, it's not. Different person, different problems. How do you think she'll deal with your kids? They're not hers, so she'll never revel in their accomplishments the way you and your W do. To them, she'll be an outsider, trust me.

 

I speak from experience. My dad and stepmom were married for many years and apparently much of them he spent unhappy. She was like a mom to us and was an incredible woman from where I stand. He started an EA with someone at another co. that he dealt with almost daily. Oh yes, she was perfect in every way that his wife wasn't. Then, suddenly he was more miserable than he "realized" because he had someone else to think about. Well, he left his wife to "clear his head" and see if he missed her. We all knew it was all about the OW. Fast forward 2 years, he married the OW. Things weren't as rosy and perfect as he thought. The kids never saw her as anything more than a homewrecking whore. After many years of an even more miserable union, they split up and he said that it was his biggest mistake. Just think long and hard, because believe me, once you lose the respect of your kids over hurting their mother, you don't get that back. They will always look at you differently. Like my husband said, if I lost our boys' respect, I might as well be dead. But, not sure how important that is to you or not. Just food for thought...

[Owl]

I'm like the shark...

 

Interesting metaphor. Sharks often eat their potential mates. They don't mate for life in any fashion.

 

Even when they hunt in packs, their sole goal is to get what's in it for them. They're the epitome of egocentrical icons.

 

At this point...all you can do is pick what you want to focus on from here. OW, or marriage.

 

I can't offer any decent advice on how to proceed with OW. I can offer advice on the marriage and family front.

 

If its OW...good luck.

 

If its your marriage, let me know if you'd like further advice from me.

[mtndew]

OWL,

 

Good questions, not sure of answers.

 

What did i do before the A? Nothing, I was in the 2nd decade auto mode. Nothing really bothered me that much anymore and she was mellowing. Her mom got cancer and passed away almost 4 years ago. That brought some changes.

 

Counseling? 25 years worth of what? Not an incredible amount and yes we did it together off and on for over 15 years. Not trying to defend myself or anything, just giving some background, but her childhood had a lot of issues. Moms marital status, 5 husbands in 12 years, one who molested W. W has been in therapy about that for years. Longer story, her birthmother died when W was 6. At the time she was being raised by her aunt, the mom mentioned above, that then adopted her. Thus the anger issues are justified.

 

Boundaries? No, I was always afraid to try to set, not the man I should have been, but am trying to become.

 

In counseling it was brought up several times thru the years as well as by her dad and sister how angry and irrational she was. Did I ever tell her how it hurt? No, I became actively passive aggressive instead.

 

Yes, the A was my choice. It was a relief. It was fun. It was what at the time then, and now, makes you wonder if that is what life could and should be like. But if I take the energy, like I said, and put it into my M, could I get good results. Would my kids be of more benefit to that or more one on one just me and my boys?

 

W is already acting like I'm never coming home. She basically has been that way since day 1. But she has always been a glass nearly empty, not even half way full. Can she be changed for the positive as I am attempting to morph my ways. She changed the message on the phone talking about the 3 of them, excluding me.

 

I know what needs fixed first and then expand from there, but I have to get my heart fully back and into it. A hard thing to do as part of my guilt over the whole situation involves what I was just discussing, her past. I knew it when I took the job as H and dad. Because of my upbringing, it is hard to walk out the door without finishing the job. Especially when there are so many things I could have done better, or COULD do better to make her a better, more even keeled individual.

[Owl]

I know what needs fixed first and then expand from there, but I have to get my heart fully back and into it.

 

It AMAZES me that you were the one who called me out on "the script" issue. And I'm not being sarcastic or attacking at all with that.

 

You see, my wife had this EXACT same thought as well. She wanted to "wait and see where we went" before she made the choice to work on our marriage or not, when we first went to counseling. THEN she'd "put her heart into it". She wanted to be convinced that it was worth it BEFORE she wanted to "put her heart into it".

 

But here's the thing. It won't get better unless you TRY FIRST. You cannot wait until your heart is in it to work on things...because your heart won't get into it until its better!

 

Its like building a house. You don't 'wish for a house' and look around one day to find that one has been built all on its own. You have to DECIDE TO BUILD THE HOUSE FIRST. THEN...and ONLY THEN...can the house be built. It doesn't just happen...it STARTS with your choice...it doesn't end with it.

 

See what I meant about "script"? This is exactly the same issue my wife dealt with too!