Return of the OW

[mtndew]

MS, I always did like Wilson Pickett... back on track, almost 2 years ago, several months shy of the big 5 0, I started assessing where I was, who I was, you know the drill. That's where the issues really picked up. 8 months after the 50, OW enters pic and opens voids and without trying, shows how to fill them.

Realistically, I know that if I were a free man, life w/OW would not be a walk in the park. No 2 people can be together, especially at our age, without some conflicts. How you deal with them is a whole different animal. I do know that for the first 12-14 years of M, my running joke was that you can rip my head off and within 30 seconds I can grow a new one back. I had that much practice. So TS asking about being a man. Maybe I wasn't, maybe I'm still not textbook, but I am working on it. Maybe I had become a very good passive aggressive person to battle a mostly overly angry mate. Not a pretty picture on either side. That's what the reassessment's all about. To take the pants off the W, and put them on. The question that arises, so you have the pants now, do you have what it takes to wear them? Some days are great, confident, positive... some days you feel like you've taken several steps back. And I won't back down. I will maintain growth.

[Mustang Sally]

MS, I always did like Wilson Pickett...

Glad to hear it.

And, as anyone who knows me knows, I have a real thing for Mountain Dew. No joke. (Breakfast of Champions, don't you know...)

 

almost 2 years ago, several months shy of the big 5 0, I started assessing where I was, who I was, you know the drill. That's where the issues really picked up.

Ah yes.

I know the drill only too well.

8 months after the 50, OW enters pic and opens voids and without trying, shows how to fill them.

So you weren't actively looking, then? She just "appeared" in your life, so to speak.

Realistically, I know that if I were a free man, life w/OW would not be a walk in the park. No 2 people can be together, especially at our age, without some conflicts. How you deal with them is a whole different animal.

Sounds like you at least have some realistic expectations. I hear you saying that you think OW's personality might mesh better with you than your wife's. Is that a reasonable assessment?

I do know that for the first 12-14 years of M, my running joke was that you can rip my head off and within 30 seconds I can grow a new one back. I had that much practice.

I think I understand of what you speak. Now you find yourself wondering if it's worth continuing on with your spouse, when there's a disconnect there, in certain venues, and you have reason to believe that there are others out there with whom - were you in a relationship with them - you would not have the same degree of disconnect (at least probably not in some of the major ways that you feel your M is lacking). Am I hearing you correctly?

So TS asking about being a man. Maybe I wasn't, maybe I'm still not textbook, but I am working on it. Maybe I had become a very good passive aggressive person to battle a mostly overly angry mate. Not a pretty picture on either side.

But you feel that some of the responsibility for why you have become what you've become and why you've dealt with your wife the way you have, lies with your wife, is that right?

That's what the reassessment's all about. To take the pants off the W, and put them on.

I understand what you are saying. But I have to tell you. In my ideal marriage, the pants are shared, if you will. Or at least the responsibility for them is capable of being shared - you know, like a shared burden. Know what I mean?

The question that arises, so you have the pants now, do you have what it takes to wear them? Some days are great, confident, positive... some days you feel like you've taken several steps back. And I won't back down. I will maintain growth.

And is your wife ok with you now possessing the pants? Maybe if you have some days that you are less comfortable in the "pants" (love this analogy, BTW), then maybe you prefer more of an equitable situation as well - at least as far as the "pants" are concerned? What do you think?

[mtndew]

MS, a couple of probably long winded answers.

 

1) No I wasn't looking for anything when OW walked in the door. And she was not the first opportunity. When I work on a project with a client, which is what they all were, we were side by side intensely for hours sometimes days at a time. And you get to know someone quickly in that setting, a setting which I am more comfortable in, as opposed to a public setting in a group of people. There have been at least 3 others who I have been totally professional and sluffed off their comments about moving the work relationship to a personal level. Any of the 3 all I had to do was act, EA and PA's were there for the taking. OW comes in and reminds me of the first at which point, after a couple of days of intense getting to know each other, I revealed about this one lady. How special she had been and that OW reminded me of her, only better. Soul sharing material. I then told her if the spark ever hit me like that again, I wasn't going to let it go. I was going to grab it and see what it felt like, where it could go.... That's when it all broke loose with the EA.

 

2) I believe I am being realistic. Mine and OW's personality meshed great. More fantastic things came out of my mouth for her than have ever come for W. But the 2 months was in a very confined safe space. I have never seen her around her friends or family, a true test of a person. But my gut says shes a great person, one that is pure to the soul. W knows a few people that kind of know OW, and they did not paint as pretty a pic. W tells me how manipulative and mean she is. When I confronted her and said I need to talk to this line of people to maybe shock me into seeing the real OW, maybe save a whole lot of heartache, W backpedaled. I was told the story of how evil she was with her 2nd H. How she was a major B. I know OW's side, he was 42, never M, a control freak who wanted a W to wait on him. He did not accept her free spirit and tried to cage and confine her. Which is exactly the opposite of how I would deal with her. I would hang onto and enjoy that spirit that she shared in the beginning. Which is why I was so attracted to her. And in return, I would fill the voids in her being, like I did in the during the time, which attracted her to me.

 

3) I told you this would be long... Part of the responsibility of my responding passive aggressively was W's fault. It became a learned, effective response. A big part of it was my fault was for letting it happen and gaining momentum as the years past.

 

And finally, 4) I don't want to wear the pants all of the time, matter of fact I would rather share them the majority of the time. I don't want to control, I don't want to be controlled, I want to work together. Build on the differences instead of holding them against each other. There is power in conflict, you just have to learn how recognize it and direct it in the proper direction. And yes, W is comfortable, at least right now, with me wearing the pants at least right now. She has done a remarkable change in attitude, but also she seems like I have beaten her down and she is having a hard time getting back up. A 180 change, which is not what I wanted. I want her to find the center where she will be the most effective, happiest, functioning lady she can be, whether it be with me, or eventually with someone else.

[Mustang Sally]

There have been at least 3 others who I have been totally professional and sluffed off their comments about moving the work relationship to a personal level. Any of the 3 all I had to do was act, EA and PA's were there for the taking.

Why did you not act before this current OW?

What was different with them, or your marriage at the time?

 

OW comes in and reminds me of the first at which point, after a couple of days of intense getting to know each other, I revealed about this one lady. How special she had been and that OW reminded me of her, only better. Soul sharing material.

So, you "put it out there" first, then. Is that correct?

I then told her if the spark ever hit me like that again, I wasn't going to let it go. I was going to grab it and see what it felt like, where it could go.... That's when it all broke loose with the EA.

And she ran with it, right? Did you have reason to believe that she was up for this before you put your feelings on the table?

 

More fantastic things came out of my mouth for her than have ever come for W.

Not quite sure what, exactly, you mean by this statement, above. Could you elaborate on that?

But the 2 months was in a very confined safe space. I have never seen her around her friends or family, a true test of a person.

Glad you are keeping this perspective.

But my gut says shes a great person, one that is pure to the soul. W knows a few people that kind of know OW, and they did not paint as pretty a pic. W tells me how manipulative and mean she is. When I confronted her and said I need to talk to this line of people to maybe shock me into seeing the real OW, maybe save a whole lot of heartache, W backpedaled. I was told the story of how evil she was with her 2nd H. How she was a major B. I know OW's side, he was 42, never M, a control freak who wanted a W to wait on him. He did not accept her free spirit and tried to cage and confine her. Which is exactly the opposite of how I would deal with her. I would hang onto and enjoy that spirit that she shared in the beginning. Which is why I was so attracted to her. And in return, I would fill the voids in her being, like I did in the during the time, which attracted her to me.

Hmmm. I can only say, "Who knows?" Geez. That's all so loaded, what you have described. I'm sure you don't expect your wife to be singing the praises of the OW to you or anyone else, right? And hard to know what might have (or not) happened in a marriage between two people who are now divorced, right? The only two people who will likely ever know the truth of that are the two people, themselves.

 

Look. She could be just the ticket for you. Really. We would all be fools to insist that this is a complete impossibility. But, I have to be honest and tell you - the odds aren't in favor of that outcome, you know? I'm sure you realize this too. Especially if she's been married a couple of times before. Now don't get all worked up...I'm not knocking people with multiple marriages in their pasts - hey - we all have our baggage, me included. But I do think that this fact of her past should - at the very least - be telling you that she's made some gross miscalculations in relationships in the past. Capiche? JMO. Worth about what it cost you.

 

Part of the responsibility of my responding passive aggressively was W's fault. It became a learned, effective response. A big part of it was my fault was for letting it happen and gaining momentum as the years past.

Good of you to own it.

I can respect that.

 

I don't want to wear the pants all of the time, matter of fact I would rather share them the majority of the time. I don't want to control, I don't want to be controlled, I want to work together. Build on the differences instead of holding them against each other. There is power in conflict, you just have to learn how recognize it and direct it in the proper direction.

Can you do this with your wife?

Or are there other dealbreakers that exist in your marriage?

 

And yes, W is comfortable, at least right now, with me wearing the pants at least right now. She has done a remarkable change in attitude, but also she seems like I have beaten her down and she is having a hard time getting back up. A 180 change, which is not what I wanted. I want her to find the center where she will be the most effective, happiest, functioning lady she can be, whether it be with me, or eventually with someone else.

Is she where she is now as a result of feeling threatened by the discovery of your EA/OW?

[mtndew]

MS, I will get to all of your questions later this evening. Just got off of the phone with W, who has been stewing over monday evenings revelation of my crossing the line in the sand. She now believes that OW and myself thought this whole thing up and set her up to look like the bad guy. She refered to it as 9 months of treating her like s#%@ and now I have the audacity to spit in her face by crossing the line with what she reads as little or no remorse. I believe the sentence is about to be handed down. Will fill in the holes later.

[mtndew]

First off, a lot has happened since feb 6. Since my revelation of accepting a job, which I, we, needed the money badly, the job that "crossed the line" with OW and has put my fence sitting habit to rest. W had been very quiet and pert all week, all exceptionally reasonable given the circumstance. We had a MC Session on the 7th at which time they handed me the ball and asked what I wanted upon which I acted and said I wanted to move out for a month, six weeks whatever it takes to clear the cobwebs and figure out where to head from here. W took it very hard, not proud of that in the least, but is there ever a right time, good time, right place answer? So, I have moved out of the house since that night. I have discussed the situation with my kids and I feel they are OK. Don't know, W is kinda being tough about letting me see them or set up any time to see them. She mildly threatened calling a lawyer. Now I know some of you are going, you've screwed it up like we told you, you would.

 

Now on to another page. The job with OW is near completion. She was out of town since the evening of my counseling session. We talked several times concerning the project and thru emails it was approved. Now mass copies are being made for mailout which was supposedly occuring today. I have my part 75% ready which was acceptable to the committee OW works with. However, OW has disappeared again from the radar, but I figure she will resurface tomorrow when I deliver the product to the committee chair and pick up the infamous check that broke the back of my M.

 

And finally, MS the response to your questions.

 

1) Why didn't I act before? Don't really know, the first time, I guess I was at a different place in my marraige, only three years into it.

2) I put it out there? It really came together at the same time. OW sent me an email after a long day at her office working together and at the end she said she was having md (my initials) withdrawals. Shortly thereafter, we spent the better part of a day in my office working and talking and it grew from there.

3) Fanastic things came out of my mouth... Words, phrases, things that made her smile, feel good, all of the things that have never come to me to say to my W.

4) I know her past doesn't speak well, even if I have heard her side of the story. But I am not running away anytime soon to marry her, I just want to get to know more... to see if my gut is correct. By the way, W had slammed OW to me saying she was mean spirited, manipulative, etc. A mutual friend who know both W and myself came by my office the other day and confided in me that W had made up every bit of it to scare me away from her and told this friend that she was an exceptionally decent person who most liked and respected and had nothing but good things to say about her.

5) I am afraid the dealbreaker is all mine now. I crossed the line and tested her boundary, whether on purpose or subconsciously, and she held firm. Don't blame her.

 

So now begins the next phase of getting my proverbial act together and to prove that that is my goal. Not to chase OW. Nobody believes me, except the guys that know me the best. What do you think?

[StillSame]

I can almost put money betting that you WILL hook up with the OW. That's your intention of moving out, to have the opportunity to cheat and go to the next level with the OW. You might deny it. If you do, you're lying to yourself too.

 

Yes, you're the bad guy now. You're calculating the steps to cheat and to go to the next level with the OW.

[whichwayisup]

I am not sure what it is you want? Your freedom to go experiment with the OW, try it out to see if it works (hense your separation) and if it doesn't work, you'll head back home to your wife and try to fix your marriage? Or will you tell the OW goodbye during this time alone and really figure out your life.

Remember, you have children involved here, so this isn't just about you and your wife.

 

You need counselling, someone to guide you, someone who has your best interest at heart. OW doesn't care about your wife, your kids, all she wants is you. Your wife wants you as well, but not if you are confused about who it is you want to be with.

 

Good luck.

[mtndew]

My children are my upmost thought right now. that is the toughest part because W is not being cordial at all like she said she would when this all shook out. I haven't seen my kids since my Friday night discussion with them. I did talk briefly on the phone with them last night and tried to set up a time to take them to a movie this afternoon, they are out of school today. W said all contact and visitation should be very organized and scheduled, no spur of the moment or out of routine visits or contact. It that holds true, I won't be able to see them but one night a week and every other weekend. I mentioned to them that with their mothers blessing I would like to pick them up and take them to school every morning, like I did everyday before the move out, but W was against it. I know their should be a routine, but is it totally out of whack to set it up to see my kids more than 8 days out of the month? To me, more damage is being done by witholding my being able to see and be part of their life on a regular and sometimes spur of the moment basis, than the strictness that she is setting up. I would never slam her to them in any way shape or form. I would continually reinforce how good a mom she is and they need to do everything they can to help. I don't know that that is the message given back on the other side. Is a rational conversation with W too much to ask at this point in time, do I need to let the dust settle before voicing my concern? Our MC just called to check in. He said to give it a couple of weeks and go from there and that he would work with her to look at the big picture, not just the one painted with anger.

 

As far as OW, I have the product to deliver to her and have yet tried to push the limit moving on to the next level. Maybe I am fooling myself in thinking why I am doing this, but time will tell. Maybe I don't know what I want, maybe I do know what I DON"T want and that is what I was and have been for the past 25 years. I have not seen my regular psych in a couple of months, but i will see him later in the week. thanks for the input.

[Mustang Sally]

Well, it sounds to me like your wife is using your kids as pawns in this deal. I can understand her predisposition to do that, given that I'm sure what you've done by moving out has hurt her. But at the same time, that is not a healthy way to go about any sort of resolution between you two. And so unfair to the kids. I don't know what to tell you about that...just do the best you can to be fair and loving and there for them. That's about all you can do, it seems.

 

Have you tried to separate your thoughts on leaving your wife to imagining yourself just as a single guy, the rest of your life? Or do you find yourself focusing on how better things would be for you, not as a single person, but with some other woman than your wife in your life? (Not neccessarily OW, but just any woman.) Because I think that might be key for you to analyze in trying to figure out what is motivating you to do/feel/think what you are...

 

Just my opinion.

[mtndew]

Before I got married, actually before I started dating my now W, I lived by myself for 8 or so years, up until I was 28. I had lived with a bunch of guys thru college, but once out, I lived by myself. I had and still have a great group of friends, a couple I have known since elementary school that I still see on a regular at least once a month basic. And have added several great new ones in the past couple of years. The thing that scares W is she knows I was fully functional without her or any other woman. I can work, cook, clean, do laundry, run a house, run a business basically, do it all without help. And then I really enjoyed it. There have been times in my younger day when I would go sometimes a day or 2 without ever talking to anyone, and I was alright with that. I drew, scuplted, played music, built something. I was almost always doing something. You might say I was alone, but rarely lonely. So the thought of being in a house by myself doesn't frighten me. Being in a house with my boys sounds actually pretty good. Being involved with OW, who knows, with any other woman, who knows, with W after some time to reset, who knows. I just know my journey got more interesting after several months of being in a rut. Now I have to engage and make the most of this time to grow. W, OW or none.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok, then.

Fair enough.

Sounds like you are off to a reasonable start.

I hope you find your resolution, whatever that may be. Sincerely.

[whichwayisup]

I think once your wife settles down and deals with her anger (with the help of counselling) she'll allow you more access to your kids. Maybe she needs to hear it from you that you won't be bringing the OW around when the kids are there...That could be a big concern of hers. I know you wouldn't, atleast not now, but how does she know that?

[mtndew]

Even if I gave in to total weakness and did increase the activity with OW, I would never bring my boys around her, mention any thing of her or do anything to confuse them on the issue between me and W.

 

thanks, will keep all up on the forthcoming events as they occur and help is needed in dealing with the issues.

[Owl]

What did you REALLY think that a one month seperation from your wife and family would help with? What was your reasoning behind that request/choice?

[mtndew]

What did I hope to accomplish? I am burned out, I have averaged probably 60 to 80 hrs a week for the past 15 years with at least 20 all night sessions last year alone. I am now over 50 and my clock has been reset to get by on 3 hours of sleep a night. I was bankrupt physically... emotionally, not that my account in that department was ever massive to begin with, spiritually... financially, not legally, but ever so close at times... you name it. Right before I turned 50 I started the reassessment routine and decided life was too short to continue as is, especially when OW turns up in the process that was well underway and says "LIVE and BE HAPPY, heres how, watch me. I made a committment to myself to better myself and I have made big strides for a shy guy getting his wings and confidence. What do I think a one month seperation will do. Get me enough distance to get my work records and projects cleaned up and put to bed so I can think creatively again, my business dies without creativity. So I can work 24 hours a day if necessary to catch up, then come up with a plan to do it better, with help that will allow me to farm the opportunities that are coming my way. My business is popping and there are so many opportunities opening up right now and if I cannot have the time and thought, 100% thought, to grasp it, it disappears as fast as it takes to dial 10 more numbers on the phone to the next guy in line. It will also allow me seperation between me and W to see if the feeling I had for her can return after some rest, or if OW has changed my outlook on life and me see that I have grown past W and cannot slide back to where I was before. It would also allow me the opportunity in the future, not now as hard as it may be, to get to know OW better as discussed earlier in this thread. To know if what we shared and started in the beginning was real or fairy tale.

Basically I am looking at it as an opportunity to recharge, relax and figure out who I want to be for the 2nd half. Maybe the best of the old parts of me on steroids, ha. I feel like the first half, I put up ok numbers, but now I know I can throw the hail mary for a TD, I can jack a 3 & 2 fastball over the center field fence for the game winning grand slam, I can produce a superior product that puts me ahead of my competition and that I can love my mate, whether that be my W, my OW, or someone I have yet to meet, like at no other time or ability in my life. I want to take the level of committment and love to my boys to a whole new level and I have already set an enormous bar there to surpass. Sounds corny but thats what I want. Is that too much to ask, is that too much to think possible? You tell me.

[whichwayisup]

But, don't you think you owe it to your wife, first? TO completely end things with the OW, go full on NC mode and focus any love that's left into your marriage instead of trying out the OW? I mean, let's say you and the OW hook up, it's great but you decide you miss your wife and want that life back. Is it really fair to go "taste the other side" not like it and run back home, in hopes your wife will take you back? I know your kids are important to you, but shouldn't keeping your family intact be part of that importance? That includes improving things with your wife, reguardless if you two end up back together. She will always be in your life.

 

Anyway, I hope you make the right decision, and if you do end things with the OW, I do hope she respects you enough to leave you alone to fix things at home.

[Owl]

It will also allow me seperation between me and W to see if the feeling I had for her can return after some rest, or if OW has changed my outlook on life and me see that I have grown past W and cannot slide back to where I was before. It would also allow me the opportunity in the future, not now as hard as it may be, to get to know OW better as discussed earlier in this thread. To know if what we shared and started in the beginning was real or fairy tale.

 

OK, the rest of your post is relevant to your job. Just as a thought...you don't need to seperate to re-prioritize and reorganize your work efforts in the direction you want to go. If you were able to work 60-80 a week, and pull occasional all-niters, you should be able to work in the additional time to do what you need to to plan things our accordingly.

 

As far as what I quoted above, this to me is the MEAT of your post. So you're taking a month off from your wife to see if you miss her...

 

...but how can you POSSIBLY think that you're going to be able to see if you'll miss her or not if you're using OW to fill the gap where your wife would be?!?!?!?! THINK ABOUT IT. You're not going to miss her, because you're going to be focusing all your attention and such to OW. If you were totally on your own, with no contact from EITHER woman...you'd find that you'd miss both.

 

What you're doing is setting an unrealistic expectation.

 

If you want to "find yourself"...you're not going to do it while you've got EITHER woman on hand. You don't feel you can do it while still with your wife...how can you possibly expect that you can do it if OW is there and you're focusing on starting a NEW relationship?!?!?!?

 

Be up and honest with your wife and yourself. Your break isn't about 'finding yourself'...its not about re-organizing your work setup so that you can enjoy life...its about giving yourself the space away from your wife to continue your affair with OW without being forced to deal with the pain and conflict that doing so in front of your wife would cause.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

If you're not going to work on your marriage, file for divorce. If you want to "explore OW"...file for divorce.

 

If you want to give your marriage the opportunity to rebuild and recover...if you want to "miss your wife"...then end the affair.

 

"Do, or do not. There is no try!" Yoda was one smart muppet!

[JustBreathe]

About the children: Why should your wife allow you unscheduled spontaneous visits with your kids? She has a right to live her life uninterrupted by you. She doesn't want to see your car pull up in front of the house and her kids climb in with you. You left her. She is trying to get on with her life and deal with the grief. Your calling to pick up the kids unplanned and showing up every day to drive them to school would be like a reminder, a stab in her heart that you are gone. For all her cordiality, she has to be hurting. Why do you think your picking up the kids and dropping them off at school is better for them? They are surely confused by what you're doing as well.

 

If you feel the schedule is not fair, file for legal separation and come up with a schedule you can both agree on and if that's not possible, let the judge decide what is fair.

 

I'm sorry, I may get roasted, but I can understand why she's doing it.

 

Sure, maybe you had a good reason to leave, you have your own life to live, but that doesn't mean she has to alter her life around your universe and what you need.

 

When my H left me, my children were devastated. They were so frightened they slept with me in the bed for the first week. As the months went by, they fought with each other all the time when they had always gotten along. The eldest refused to go visit his dad at his apartment. I let my H drop them off from school as he always had. It was hard to see his SUV pull up and then just drop them off and drive away. It hurt so much. Looking back, I should have done just as your wife is doing. Stick to a schedule.

[November Rain]

I've read the entire thread. My point of view will not be appreciated but it is my opinion.

 

You rode the fence because you didn't want to make the decision to stay with your wife or leave her. You finally pushed her over the edge when you crossed the mark in the sand by taking the job that she asked you not to take. What choice was she left with?

 

I'm sorry but I am on the receiving end of a similiar situation. That is being in your wife's shoes. This woman gave you 18 years of her life and now you finally decide this is not what you want any more or you don't know if marriage is what you want any more with her. You think life is going to be a bed of roses with the OW. Let the day today routines set in...taking care of your children or her children, paying bills, house work, yard work, work period. Things are not going to change except for the person you are sharing the responsibilities with. You still will be responsible.

 

How will you feel when your wife decides to date? Will it bother you or upset you? I'm curious. You think by separating you can figure out what you want in life? I do hope so. It's not fair to your wife or OW by hanging on to them both and not making the decison yourself. You made your wife make the decision for you...maybe subconsciously or consciously, but you didn't make it. You rode the fence until you were pushed off. Can you clearly decide what you want when you are still torn between the two?

 

I'm sorry...I don't want to sound or be mean. But my situation is similiar and I feel with my H it's Mid-Life Crisis. What happens when that all blows over? Have you ever stopped to think that maybe that's the problem you are facing?

[mtndew]

Wow, I love this place, those who help, those who understand, those who roast you, it's all good stuff. In regular life, you could never have this forum to air out your "stuff".

 

JB. thanks for the perspective of picking up the kids from her point of view. i hadn't thought of it as being so tough watching me pick them up and drive off on a regular basis. as far as just dropping by, that will never happen, but what if I get last minute tickets to say a baseball game, or a chance to go skiing, etc. Should I bite my lip and let it go, or should I make the call? what about emailing or texting instead, no direct personal contact? Should she be open to these kind of things? She works out of the house and is always complaining about interuptions, I wish, and maybe in time she will call for help.

 

WWIU: I know I haven't given it the old college try with thoughts of OW interfering, but I was in this boat before OW. I was going thru the motions, that's all I really knew. Was this good for the kids to see? Is that what I wanted them to think M was supposed to be like? Not exactly the picture I wanted to paint. and you know they learn more watching you and how you do things than they ever do by what you tell them. As far as OW if I decide to really work at home, she will totally disappear. She is an incredible woman who has done nothing shy of getting me some work and staying in the far distance. Maybe i am being naive as W put it. She thought me & OW were playing a sly game of keeping in just enough contact as to not let the ember die.

 

OWL: I have tried for 7-8 months to get caught up. I would work all day, go home at 7, eat dinner with the family, help with homework, mess around with the boys, play games, etc. then go back to work around 10 and go til 1, 2, 4 in the morning. When I would leave the house, W would always indirectly question IF I was going to work or somewhere else. During the entire time, I never once went anywhere else but. But then I haven't done a lot not only now, but also in the past to reinforce my trust factor. Gets back to that passive aggresive thing. Trying to cushion the blow, that always blew up in my face. By the was Yoda also said, "Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned." That's what I am attempting to do but 50 years is a lot of reset.

 

NR: Last but not least "It's hard to hold a candle in the cold November rain." (Axl) Bed of roses?? I know, see previous reponses. I feel at least though with OW temperament, the daily grind would be less melodramatic than the one I've been on for the last couple of decades. Less stress, less yelling, less head regrowth. It does cost you follicles every time you regrow a head. Now, if and when the time comes for W to date, I hope she finds that special someone with some of the things she really wanted that I couldn't provide. She deserves the world! And finally, Yes I did force the issue, but I am the one who made the decision, not her. I could have sucked it up, put my tail between my legs, begged forgiveness and crawled back in my rut but I didn't. I finally stood up and said whoa, albeit under somewhat less than optimum circumstances. And finally, finally, how long has your H's midlife crisis gone and how are he and you dealing with it? Has he bought the red convertible yet? A new haircut?

I will be ready to face the future like never before when the dust settles.

[whichwayisup]

Can I ask? Would you say part of your downfall to your marriage was you heading off to work after the kids were in bed? Neglecting your wife, your relationship with her? I'm not saying it's all your fault your marriage fell apart, but I'm sure with you disappearing and not spending alone time connecting with her, allowed the emotional distance to happen, hense growing apart and feeling resentments..

[mtndew]

Actually, when my youngest was born, W quit a quite high paying job to stay at home with him in the beginning. He was born 2 months premature but has no ill effects or problems associated with that other than his body clock being permanently set to wake up every three hours during the night as they woke him to feed him in the hospital for the first month of his life. As soon as he was "out of the woods" she started working with me, selling for me. We also spun off another company that was "hers" which did the same thing mine did, just in a different arena. So when I would go to work late to work on projects, she understood the drill. And also, during the day, I am more involved in the day to day routine of my boys than most dads. So that takes time away during the day from work, to be made up later. However, W did hold some resentment to me because I never fully let her into "my" business. Just this year in counseling, trying to figure out my journey chronicled here in fairly good depth, we came to the conclusion that the majority of my life, I had lived in everyones shadows and that it was time for me to step out into the sunlight. Then the reason for me not letting her in was clear. It was my baby, not hers. Everything else was ours, but a most of it was hers, at least control of it. I had nothing of mine that was MINE... except my business oh and of course the garage. So I am stepping out of the shadows of the big trees and getting sunburnt for the first time and it's pretty incredible. So has working late caused of us drifting apart, no I tend to think my waking up and wanting not necessarily control of things, just not to be controlled caused more problems.

[StillSame]

mtndew, you would not be labled as the "bad guy," the "cheating SOB," the "adulterer," etc. if there was no OW involved. But the fact is, there is an OW. No matter what you say now to justify your infidelity, you still have committed adultery and disrespected your marriage. All marriages have problems, so yours is not unique. What a decent man would not do is to cheat, you did it and you seem to continue wanting to do it and even having the desire to take it to the next level. Your wife and your children will not respect you if you continue the affair with this OW. No matter how you spin it, this OW is partially responsible for the fall out of your marriage.

[Owl]

OWL: I have tried for 7-8 months to get caught up. I would work all day, go home at 7, eat dinner with the family, help with homework, mess around with the boys, play games, etc. then go back to work around 10 and go til 1, 2, 4 in the morning. When I would leave the house, W would always indirectly question IF I was going to work or somewhere else. During the entire time, I never once went anywhere else but. But then I haven't done a lot not only now, but also in the past to reinforce my trust factor. Gets back to that passive aggresive thing. Trying to cushion the blow, that always blew up in my face. By the was Yoda also said, "Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned." That's what I am attempting to do but 50 years is a lot of reset.

 

I'll buy that you need some catch up time.

 

I will NOT buy that including OW in any way to that catch up time makes any sense at all...whatsoever. PERIOD.

 

If you're seperating from your wife...but continuing to see OW...in any way, shape, fashion, or form...then the purpose behind what you've done is nothing more than give yourself the opportunity to continue the affair, unopposed by your wife. Realize that...quit trying to justify the unjustifiable.

 

You want to fix things? Fine...take that time...ALONE. WITHOUT EITHER WOMAN.

 

Otherwise...you're just continuing the affair, and trying to rationalize your choices and hide behind your desire to 'catch up'.

 

Its FAR, FAR easier to see this clearly from the outside rather than inside.

 

What you're doing is straight out of the cheater's handbook. My wife asked for that same "time to figure things out"...and the whole time was setting it up to meet with OM to "see if what they had was real". See the incongruity of this???

 

Nearly every WS does this.

 

You're following the standard script.

 

If you want to break the stereotype, don't do the stereotypical actions.

 

Break the script.