renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Okay, I'm guessing I should trust my instincts on this one, but I would appreciate other perspectives. Sorry it is lengthy!!! I am single and was out with a married girlfriend last Friday night. We were sitting at the bar when a gentleman I noticed came and sat down on the other side of my friend. I noticed he did not have a wedding ring and thought he was attractive, but I was not in a position to strike up a conversation. Long story short, he and my friend chatted and I caught his eye several times during the evening. My friend was over-served and went to the bathroom. At that point, the guy came over and said he didn't want to be rude to my friend, but he really wanted to talk to me (again, she's married). I gave him my card and told him I would love to have dinner sometime. I then had to take my friend home. Saturday, he calls my cell and asks me to dinner that evening. I told him I had plans but would have a free night Wednesday. Sunday he calls my cell again and asks me out that night. I told him I had my kids that night and would have them until Wednesday. He called again that night and invited me to bring the kids. I declined (to this day my kids have never met anyone I have dated, let alone someone I just met) and told him I would be free Wednesday. He said he would call Wednesday to get directions to my house and I said that would be fine. Tuesday he calls me at work. I thought that was odd since he had my cell phone but I had given him my business card, so whatever. I should mention here that we both have Blackberries, so he had emailed repeatedly also. I emailed him directions and he agreed to pick me up on Wednesday. Wednesday he calls again. Tells me he really looks forward to going out that evening. So that evening, we go out to a very nice restaurant. He asks what kind of wine I like and after some discussion ends up ordering $120 bottle of wine. The dinner was very elaborate and I am certain ended up costing upwards of $300. I of course offer to pay, but he didn't let me (which, I think, is how it should be since he asked). We then go to another bar and have martinis. It is here that we joke about the cold and he tells me we should go away the weekend after next (when I don't have my kids) to someplace exotic and warm. I said "that sounds nice" in a noncommital way. At that point, it is after 1 a.m. and we both have to work the next day. He drives me home and asks if he can walk me to the door. I agree and I get to the door and he comes inside. Once inside, we chat for a few minutes and he begins to kiss me. The kiss turns into two hours of me telling him "no" and "I'm tired" and "You should go." while he relentlessly pursues trying to get me to sleep with him. It wasn't necessarily date rape, as I was kissing him back, but it was reminiscent of high school, with hands going in places they shouldn't and me moving them away, while gently telling him to go. I am not a "first date sex" kind of girl and I don't think I led him to believe otherwise. So he leaves at 3:45 a.m. I have 3 hours of sleep and a full day of work and I am TIRED and IRRITATED. Prior to this, I have never had someone so "forward" with me on a first date. I call my friend and whine to her and we agree I should curtly email a thank you for dinner email and write this one off. So that's what I do and he immediately responds, saying he is trying to book our flights to Grand Cayman and was hoping we could chat about dates of availability. WHAT????? So I don't respond. An hour later, he calls my cell and asks that I call him so we can make those weekend plans. I ignore again and 2 1/2 hours later he emails pics of the hotel (beautiful) and tells me there are only two rooms left. He also says he wants to see me again VERY SOON and says he would love to take me and my two children out to dinner this weekend. WHAT??? Finally, at the end of the day, I email him and nicely tell him I appreciate the offer of going away for the weekend but cannot accept because we just met. I also told him I was uncomfortable with the way the date ended because I felt he must've gotten the impression I was "that kind of girl". He immediately called and apologized. Told me he hadn't been intimate with a woman in six months and got a little carried away. Told me he understood why I had declined but would really like to see me again. I politely agreed in a non-committal kind of "I'll call you." way. So my question is, should I be put off by all of this? I think this is all a little over the top and I'm guessing some girls would be charmed but I just feel like I'm being smothered or something. I'd appreciate thoughts and opinions.
Jilly Bean Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Here's what disturbs me. 1 - you gave you HOME address to a perfect stranger. AND you have kids at home. Tsk. 2 - you invited a stranger INTO your home, despite so many red flags being thrown up. His intentions are pretty irrelevant - I'm honestly more concerned that you seem to lack boundaries and know how to keep yourself safe. I'd run from him, hon. Tell him you and your ex-hubby have reconciled and he is moving back in.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 I agree. You are right. I guess it is because I had met him in person, he seemed nice, my friend liked him and his background checked out okay and I knew where he worked and made sure my girlfriend had all of his info. But at the same time, I now regret it. As to inviting him in, I didn't really; only told him he could walk me to the door. But I did let him in. I agree and am usually not so reckless, honestly.
EYECANDY000 Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 So my question is, should I be put off by all of this You should be put off by all of this if you were extremely uncomfortable. If you cant be comfortable with someone over the phone or in person you dont need to go out with him again.. this guy should like the type who is a premature stalker .. I think this is all a little over the top and I'm guessing some girls would be charmed but I just feel like I'm being smothered or something. . Yes, women would love for someone to wine them and dine them and take them to a place where there is a nice climate, but not if the guy is pushy and seems a little crazy. I wouldnt contact him again if I was you. If he emails you again, then dont respond.
blackbird Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Heh. I just had this discussion with my fiance about the unspoken guys' rule that (single) guys are not responsible for what they do after 6 months of no sex. This guy sounds desperate, no offense. And like a psycho stalker. Run, far far away.
Jilly Bean Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I agree. You are right. I guess it is because I had met him in person, he seemed nice, my friend liked him and his background checked out okay and I knew where he worked and made sure my girlfriend had all of his info. But at the same time, I now regret it. As to inviting him in, I didn't really; only told him he could walk me to the door. But I did let him in. I agree and am usually not so reckless, honestly. Cool. But it takes just one slip-up in judgement to earn you a heap of problems. He's clearly not a well person. None of his behavior could even be construed as "charming". His actions are purely not right on a variety of levels. Seriously - heed my words. Tell him you enjoyed the date very much, and think he's wonderful, but you are your ex and getting back together, and he is moving in next weekend. You need to be sure he knows a man is living in your home. Otherwise, from what he's done so far, he's got stalker written all over him. It's very important your next actions are firm, final and don't leave you exposed. And next date with someone new - you give out NO personal info (not your business card - nothing. First name only and cell phone or email), never, ever let them come to your home. Meet them in a public place, take your own transportation to and from. It's always best to play safe. I dont care how nice someone is. Its a messed up world we live in, and you have to be smart.
wizer Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 He's pushy, doesn't respect your boundaries, you are too trusting and you are a bit of a pushover. Recipe for disaster.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 Seriously, great advice. This is my first slip up of this kind. I have usually gone out with guys 4-5 times before allowing them to pick me up for a date. The part about him knowing a man is living with me is great advice! I had already considered reaching out to one of my guy friends to have him pose the part. I never thought about just saying my ex-hubby was moving in. Well done.
mortensorchid Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 This guy sounds like a psychopath. Regaurdless of whether or not you have kids, this guy is a lonely wackjob. You should not have invited him inside your house. You said so yourself that it turned into an awkward grope fest with you battling off his advances. Cut the cord and walk away.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 Pushover? I had expected you all would let me have it, but pushover??? I think there are many girls out there who would be charmed, but I am not. I have gone out on many dates and I usually identify deal-breakers immediately and cut it off right away. Never had this happen before, although I said earlier, this is the first slip-up in judgement I have had resulted in a deal-breaker knowing where I live.
wizer Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Pushover? I had expected you all would let me have it, but pushover??? You allowed the guy to force himself on you for two hours while you made weak excuses and tried to get him to leave. Yes, pushover.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 Point taken. I concede and would tell one of my girlfriends the same thing.
Crestfallen_KH Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I would recommend you envision this: The hills, and you running for them.
Balthazar Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I have to agree with most of the other people here. His behavior is disturbing and you are better off just cutting things off completely. He wants too much, too soon!
imstunned Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Blimey - its hardly a crime to invite a man you dont know so well into your house is it?? Happens ALL the time where I live. The only bit of behaviour that sounds unusual to me is the nice phone calls, the lovely dinner, the decent aoplogy and the trip. His hands all over you - either every man I have ever really been with has been disrespectful or its normal. If you feel smothered by it then I guess he is not for you. x
marlena Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, This is a difficult one. After all, you are both two consenting adults. The problem is of course that you barely know the man. But this is true of a lot of situations..from meeting someone in a bar to online dating. A friend of met someone at a bus stop and they had sex almost right away. Today, they are one of the very few happily married couples that I know. Most people are strangers until we get to know them. We don't always meet people from within our social circle. I met my husband at a bar. And we moved pretty fast too. Today, after a fiftten year marriage, we are divorced but that's neither here or there. I admit that he does sound a bit like stalkerish material. Or he may just be lonely and a little needy. That isn't such a crime. We have all felt that way at times in our lives. If you like him and want to see him again, you could always go out to a public place and tell him that you want to take things slower. See if he respects your boundaries. If, however, you feel stifled and your gut feeling is telling you there is something very wrong with this person, then, go with your gut feeling and, yes, envision those hills. Marlena
sunshinegirl Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 This guy has "controlling" and possibly "abuser" written all over him. For starters, the constant contact asking you out every day before Wednesday when you clearly said you were free Wednesday? Out of line. Then the very very fast "let's go away together" move? (why would you agree to go away with someone you don't know, where they would have you isolated from everyone and everything you know, and unable to escape/leave?) Then the barely taking 'no' for an answer to his groping. The fact that you had to qualify that it wasn't date rape says to me that it was over-the-top aggressive. On a date you shouldn't come anywhere CLOSE to uttering the words 'date rape' to describe what happened. Run run run run run run run.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks for all of your replies. On one hand, I could agree with the earlier poster. I could easily talk myself into the idea that he is lonely and a bit needy and if I tell him to slow things down and he can respect my boundaries then great. However, my gut is telling me something is not right. From calling everyday to not respecting my boundaries when I tell him specifically when I can and cannot see him, to the two hours of groping. I conceded earlier to be a pushover with regard to allowing it to happen for two hours but I now think it was more of a survival tactic - I suddenly realized the predicament I was in, he was essentially on top of me on the couch and I didn't want to anger him but certainly made it clear I wanted him to leave. Plus, I was constantly pushing his hand away from places I didn't want him to go and he would repeatedly try to go there. The only way I got out of the situation was my dog started whining and I got up to let him out and when I did I just STOOD THERE by the door and told him it was time to go because I was tired. I am going to tell him to go away, and that in and of itself makes me nervous since something in my gut tells me he's not right and he now knows where I live. I do have a guy friend who told me last night he would play the part. I have concerns if I tell him my ex is moving in next weekend, he won't buy it because it is awfully convenient after I already told him I didn't appreciate his groping. I'm trying to figure out how to make it believeable.
Kamille Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I conceded earlier to be a pushover with regard to allowing it to happen for two hours but I now think it was more of a survival tactic - I suddenly realized the predicament I was in, he was essentially on top of me on the couch and I didn't want to anger him but certainly made it clear I wanted him to leave. Plus, I was constantly pushing his hand away from places I didn't want him to go and he would repeatedly try to go there. The only way I got out of the situation was my dog started whining and I got up to let him out and when I did I just STOOD THERE by the door and told him it was time to go because I was tired. I started writing three times last night to say something along the lines that it can be very difficult to assert yourself when someone isn't listening to your boundaries but couldn't quite put it into words until you posted this. I agree with you. He should have stopped the first time you said no and asked him to leave. I feel like you were accused for something that was largely out of your control. I know there is an imperative to be safe, but women can't always be held responsible for men's behaviour. That only perpetuates the structure whereby the impetus falls on women to be assertive, whereas some men can pretend they have no control over their own sexuality.
Jilly Bean Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I feel like you were accused for something that was largely out of your control. I think considering how intensely and pathologically he behaved in advance of the date, she was very foolish to let him into her home at all. THAT was entirely within her control. In fact, much of how all of this has fleshed out was entirely in her control. For instance - if she hadn't of given him her home address and had him pick her up at home, then she would have avoided the bulk of this drama. This was in ridiculously poor judgement, and she knows that (now). If she had met him out somewhere, took her own car, then right now, she would be dealing with him only emailing her, or calling her cell phone. Instead, she has now invited potential danger and visits from him at her home AND her workplace. I think it's important she NOT feel that this was beyond her control (when it was), because that might lull her into the same situation again down the road with someone else. As women, we have to protect ourselves, and NEVER assume a man will be gentleman (hope yes, assume no). Particularly a total and complete stranger you meet in a bar.
Kamille Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I was refering more precisely to the two hours grope fest. Up until then, the guy might have only been perceived as eager. I mean, we've all been exposed to the philosophy that says a man who is into you will pursue relentlessly. But to me, there is something akin to blaming the rape victim for walking home after dark in some of the replies that she got about the groping. In policing her behavior, and women's in general, let's not forget to make him accountable for his actions.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 Jilly, You have said repeatedly and I agreed with you that it was my fault for letting him know where I live and letting him in. I agree with you on that point. That part was entirely within my control and it was poor judgement on my part. What Kamille was referring to was the earlier post where I was told I was a pushover for letting him force himself on me for two hours while I made weak excuses. She said and I agree that asserting yourself in that position can be tricky and at that point I was in a very bad predicament but my actions here didn't necessarily make me a "pushover". The point is that he outweighed me by more than 100 lbs. probably and at that point I was trying to get out of the situation unharmed. Again, I hope those reading this will NEVER make the same mistake I did, nor will I... However, me "letting" him do what he did doesn't signify consent and to be honest, I am glad the evening didn't result in ways it could have because of my earlier mistake. Thanks for your replies. Any advice you can give on how to make a lie believable and make him go away would be appreciated.
TheSilentType Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) You both sound like users, but you were the smarter one since you let a clearly desperate guy ($120 for a wine bottle on a first date!!!!!) go all out to treat you. Edited February 2, 2008 by TheSilentType
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 $300 did raise a red flag, which is why I included it as a detail. As I said, I offered to pay, even though it was not I that ordered the $120 bottle of wine or suggested the locale. Don't even get me started on how that does not mean I "owe" him. Nor does it make me a user.
Author renee_1977 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 You both sound like users, but you were the smarter one since you let a clearly desperate guy ($120 for a wine bottle on a first date!!!!!) go all out to treat you. Hey there, why did you edit your earlier message? I wonder....
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