Author LoveLace Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 *Facepalms* Okay, LL. As long as you're willing to accept less than what you want, that's all you're EVER going to get. NO I"m NOT, that's why I told him ALL or NOTHING...there is no point in sending him another email repeating something he's already seen me do. He wouldn't take it seriously so why bother? I don't even know if he'll take ALL or NOTHING seriously. So why give him something else to blow off. NOTHING means it IS over so there's no need to elaborate there. He isn't too dumb to get that, making him understand isn't what matters, it's if he takes it seriously that matters. I like the email cussing him out. It's how I feel without sounding nice. It says if you wanted this, you would work for it. Not working for it means it's over, it's simple. If I had never attempted to say "Forget about me" before, I would now. I don't want to repeat the same words that he blew off.
Author LoveLace Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 I promise, Kam. I can't wait until he calls (IF he calls) and says, "LL, I told you I don't want a relationship"...so that I can say, "and I told you that I do. So goodbye". Personality-wise he has potential for being a good boyfriend. Action-wise, he doesn't. My note said "Actions are louder than words"..."action" would be included in the "ALL"...so if I don't get the action I want, he won't either.
Author LoveLace Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 Well I got school work to do, wasting time here is actually a lot more fun even though I'm ranting about Dan...I'd doubt anything new happens anytime soon...but I'll be back if it does. Thanks SG because you busted me on basically trying to go back on my ultimatum. I won't be doing that. Maybe I just need to be kept in check sometimes. Actually, you all make more pssd at him than I was before!! ha oh well.
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 I'm having a hard time tonight. I know Dan isn't right for me and sew on...but it doesn't make this any easier. It doesn't make me miss him less. I know this is something that fades with time. With Dan, gosh I've never even had to "get over it" with him before. Cuz I never got as close to him as I did this time. I've never cried about him in 2 years but here I am in tears now. Because I'm pretty sure it's over; but better to be over now than later right? With Marty, I missed him, but I think the crying was more about being alone. I'm crying because I like Dan and I can't have him the way I want to have him. I keep thinking of how unique of a feeling I had with him last time, in his arms all night long, while talking, while sleeping. For a minute I thought, hey I was happy the way it was, now I"ve gone and ruined it. The way I see it, I WAS happy, but HE goes and ruins it. Things were moving along to my satisfaction, seeing him once every week or 2, was okay. But when I get no contact for this long...ugh maybe every 2 weeks just isn't enough anymore. His ears are probably just hearing "Give me more, more, more!" He hasn't checked his email at all still, that I can tell...but he's not really an everyday email person. He never has been. His junk mail builds up so quickly that he might easily look over my email by the time he gets there. But oh well, cuz I left him the note anyway. It took him 3-4 days to respond to my last note; I have a feeling this one will take longer. I'm still glad I did it; just miss him.
norajane Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Sent another email...much shorter...and sord of a different side of me but it's the real me: To go 2 weeks without calling or attempting to see me, I consdier that "in between" All or Nothing and it is not acceptable. You know this p***s me off. You f*** me whenever the h**l you want but you can't call to say "hi" in the least? It's bulls***. And I sure as h**l can't reach whenever I want, if I'm thinking about you, because your never home. P**sy must not be that great, or you'd work harder to keep it. Yea, I don't think I'll delete that one. Wow, that's really aggressive and offensive. I take it you are the "p**sy" you refer to in his email? Why would you devalue yourself like that? You're also putting ALL the blame on him and his actions. You need to take responsibility for your part in this for the last 2 years. For 2 years, you accepted his booty calls and his behavior and now you're turning around and forgetting that you happily and excitedly went off to meet him whenever he called. You can't just suddenly turn into psycho b*tch because suddenly you don't want to accept his behavior when you've accepted it all along. Have you considered he's already given you his all or nothing answer? And he's chosen "nothing" which is why he's getting lost and not contacting you.
dropdeadlegs Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 LoveLace, you have two choices ands I'll make them very simple. Accept, or WALK! F-buddy, or NOTHING! Not easy to do, not saying it is, but pick one and stop overanalyzing Dan, he's pretty f-ing simple to those outside the sitch. I surely have his number.
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Wow, that's really aggressive and offensive. I take it you are the "p**sy" you refer to in his email? Why would you devalue yourself like that? You're also putting ALL the blame on him and his actions. You need to take responsibility for your part in this for the last 2 years. For 2 years, you accepted his booty calls and his behavior and now you're turning around and forgetting that you happily and excitedly went off to meet him whenever he called. You can't just suddenly turn into psycho b*tch because suddenly you don't want to accept his behavior when you've accepted it all along. Have you considered he's already given you his all or nothing answer? And he's chosen "nothing" which is why he's getting lost and not contacting you. Oooh so it's all MY fault and my fault only? I don't think so. He could have made the choice to stop it at the time when I also had the same choice. He could have stopped pursuing, just as I could have stopped taking him back. And it's not "sudden" for me to call his behavior unacceptable. He's heard that before. I admit to several things that probably some guys would consider "psycho" but these things don't seem to phase Dan much...every time I've thought for sure I've scared him off, because it would scare most off, he'd be back. I"m paying for my "responsibility" right now. I'm upset. And if his not contacting is him choosing "nothing", well then this is like the 10th time he's chosen it. Again, he knows I hate no contact, we've acknowledged it before, so he knows he's doing something that doesn't make me happy. It's not "sudden" to him, I guarantee that. Geez my 1st email was too nice to everybody and now it's too aggressive...whatever, if someone p*sses you off you let them know and sometimes you want them to know just HOW p*ssd off you are. "Psycho" would be more like "Oh Dan I love you don't leave me oh please...if you leave me I'll burn your house down!" - that's what I call psycho. Edited February 11, 2008 by LoveLace
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Besides, in the past I've sent him way more ignorant emails and ignorant voice mails than that...and he still claims that I'm not bitchy or mean, he treats like I'm this innocent sweet thing. It's like no matter how bitchy I try to be he just thinks it's cute or something. Like after the 1st time I said we shouldn't do it anymore, he comes back later and says "oh yea you were p*ssed off" like ha ha that was funny. Geez I've had guys in the past think I was the b*tch of the universe and Dan just doesn't seem to think I have it in me or something, no matter how much I cuss him out.
norajane Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Oooh so it's all MY fault and my fault only? I don't think so. He could have made the choice to stop it at the time when I also had the same choice. He could have stopped pursuing, just as I could have stopped taking him back. And it's not "sudden" for me to call his behavior unacceptable. He's heard that before. I admit to several things that probably some guys would consider "psycho" but these things don't seem to phase Dan much...every time I've thought for sure I've scared him off, because it would scare most off, he'd be back. I"m paying for my "responsibility" right now. I'm upset. No, I'm not saying you are at fault for everything. I said: You're also putting ALL the blame on him and his actions. You need to take responsibility for your part in thisYou will feel less out of control and at his mercy if you realize that you have made choices all along to perpetuate the way your relationship is. You have had choices, just like you have a choice now. Example: you hate this silence, the NC. You don't have to accept it. You can choose to say it's over, right now, no more waiting. If you do hear from him, then you just tell him you're done, you've made the choice because you don't want a guy who runs hot and cold. And then don't let him talk you into anything more.
oppath Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Actually, I agree with Norajane. It was an aggressive message, not assertive. Now, if you had asked him not to contact you unless he wanted a relationship, and he contacted you pursuing sex, then I'd say an angry, aggressive message would be appropriate. If you told him your boundaries and he crossed them, getting angry is fine. As it was, you do have responsibility as he has told you repeatedly he is not interested in a relationship with you. So for you to get mad at him when he has been mostly honest with you, isn't quite fair as you have 50% responsibility of even being in this situation. If you told him "this is all or nothing, if you don't want a relationship, please don't contact me unless you do" and he responded "want to have sex one last time?" then getting angry would be more than justified. It doesn't matter what you wrote, however, as what matters is whether you stick to it. You've told him off before but caved. So don't waste time worrying about these messages. Waste that time moving on in your life and if he gets in touch with you tell him "no thank you" and stick to it.
dropdeadlegs Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 No, I'm not saying you are at fault for everything. I said: You will feel less out of control and at his mercy if you realize that you have made choices all along to perpetuate the way your relationship is. You have had choices, just like you have a choice now. Example: you hate this silence, the NC. You don't have to accept it. You can choose to say it's over, right now, no more waiting. If you do hear from him, then you just tell him you're done, you've made the choice because you don't want a guy who runs hot and cold. And then don't let him talk you into anything more. norajane's posts aren't meant to be parsed because they are so good in total. I respect her, and her way of expression, so immensely! Still, the fact that YOU DON"T HAVE TO ACCEPT IT just screams at me! (Pardon the pun.) You don't, but you do. the emails, and notes, are just playing into his hand. If he wanted what you (obviously) want, it would happen! The room mate was an almost identical situation if you break it down. (or is Dan the former room mate?) It's about saying to these men (and yourself) I AM WORTHY OF MORE! The hard part is standing by that conviction after years of not doing that. I know. I was you in many ways. I just wasn't emailing and letter writing and posting on a forum. I was allowing men to control me when I had control the whole time. I wasn't recognizing my own part in the cycle. It's good to be enlightened, but it didn't happen overnight. I had to break a lot of bad habits. I had to learn/believe that sex did not equal a relationship. They can be very cohesive and very separate.
dropdeadlegs Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Actually, I agree with Norajane. It was an aggressive message, not assertive. Now, if you had asked him not to contact you unless he wanted a relationship, and he contacted you pursuing sex, then I'd say an angry, aggressive message would be appropriate. If you told him your boundaries and he crossed them, getting angry is fine. As it was, you do have responsibility as he has told you repeatedly he is not interested in a relationship with you. So for you to get mad at him when he has been mostly honest with you, isn't quite fair as you have 50% responsibility of even being in this situation. If you told him "this is all or nothing, if you don't want a relationship, please don't contact me unless you do" and he responded "want to have sex one last time?" then getting angry would be more than justified. It doesn't matter what you wrote, however, as what matters is whether you stick to it. You've told him off before but caved. So don't waste time worrying about these messages. Waste that time moving on in your life and if he gets in touch with you tell him "no thank you" and stick to it. Wouldn't rolling your eyes and not responding be even better than responding in anger? Anger implies that you care. Silence implies that you are over it (truly sticking to her previous statement) and that question is not even worth answering.
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Just to be clear Oppath, he hasn't told repeatedly he doesn't want a relationship. After 2 years we finally had that talk for the 1st time and not since then. That one time was supposed to be enough for me I know. And it was after that when he got on a roll with the pursuing, it was after that we stayed up all night talking till Dawn, it was after that talk when sh*t suddenly started to feel different (in a nice way) and it wasn't supposed to happen that way. But it all just happened, on its own. I didn't expect anything to change about my feelings for him but it did. Actually I felt it coming on...that's why I tried to end it at 1st...I even called friends up and said, "man it's cool. I didn't like him that much it's no big deal"....but this time that's a different story and I don't know why. Well now I deleted the "aggressive" email!! Maybe the new one is good enough...it says I'm NOT blaming him for everything and I recalled where I messed up...basically said it'll always come back to this and it gets harder everytime so there's only one way to fix it, by letting you go. I said I'm sure there's other women who you enjoy your time with. I left out cuss words. But I wouldn't put it past someone here to convince me something's wrong with that message, too. All my emails have to get the Loveshack seal of approval first, ya know?
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Wouldn't rolling your eyes and not responding be even better than responding in anger? Anger implies that you care. Silence implies that you are over it (truly sticking to her previous statement) and that question is not even worth answering. Funny you say that...because Dan tends to respond to my anger and after so long of silence, he's back on the horn chasing away.
oppath Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Wouldn't rolling your eyes and not responding be even better than responding in anger? Anger implies that you care. Silence implies that you are over it (truly sticking to her previous statement) and that question is not even worth answering. I agree, it is better. I wish I would have not expressed anger at my ex when she emailed me asking to be friends with benefits. It opened the floodgates of drama as I felt entitled to an apology, or I wanted her to alleviate the pain and the feelings of worthlessness imbued upon me when she asked that did not exist before. The result was I screamed bloody murder which only devalued myself and made the situation worse. Sticking to my request for no contact, by not contacting her back, would have been much more efficient. I also wouldn't have opened myself up to her responding "I was just joking" which hurt me even worse. Had I simply clicked delete, I would have saved myself pain and likely friendships too and I have no doubt a year later, my esteem would be more high, because me reacting in anger, I kind of embarrassed myself. I came off as psycho and irrational. I ended up apologizing for my behavior. That's how low my esteem sunk. Sticking to your guns no matter what is the BEST thing you can do. If you want him out of your life, when he contacts you, ignore it until you are in an ambivalent place. Sent it to delete. Don't take any correspondence. Stick to it unless he apologizes, and even then, keep it short and civil if you return it at all.
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Oppath, I would think anyone would feel angry about something like that. Or at least feel hurt, and react with anger. One thing I'm not doing is apologizing for anything because I don't feel I've done anything wrong, maybe over the top with the All or Nothing note I don't know but I think he's the one who should apologize way more than me. He DID apologize once when I told him I felt like he was being disrespectful...it was the same night we had the talk. But apparently he didn't mean it because he's gotta be aware that this is in fact disrespecting me again.
oppath Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Yes, people would feel hurt, I'm not meaning to hijack. What I'm trying to say is that if he contacts you and for some reason you are hurt, it's best to just ignore it rather than get in the last word. Stick to your guns. All or nothing means all or NOTHING. So no matter what happens, for the next couple months, really mean it. Give him nothing. If he calls you, emails you, whatever, give him nothing. Give him nothing if he is pleasant and apologetic. Because otherwise, you will get sucked back in. Give him nothing if he says something that irritates you, otherwise you risk exacerbating any potential wounds. NOTHING.
Star Gazer Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Oppath, I would think anyone would feel angry about something like that. Or at least feel hurt, and react with anger. Nah, they have to care first. Pretend some random guy who you really don't care about all that much sends you this message: "I can't believe you, LL! It's been 2 weeks since I've heard from you! That's not good enough for me. You know how angry it makes me when you go a long time between contacting me, so why do you keep doing it! You can ride my cock whenever you want, but you don't have the decency to pretend like you're in a relationship with me to call up and say hi? It's ridiculous! I mean, you won't even allow me to contact you when I want to because you're never home - you're out having sex with other men and having a good time and living your life while I wait two weeks at a time for you to call me! My d*ck must not be that good for you, otherwise you'd work harder to keep playing with it..." Wouldn't you just... laugh? I mean, seriously?
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Hijack away, doesn't bother me! There have been a few times when I wouldn't say I felt "hurt" but disappointed by him in some way, so I chose the old ignoring routine. And you know what he does then? Blows up my phone over and over and over. Annoying. But god forbid I've never even thought of doing that to him, for the sake of not being annoying myself. So unfair!
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Nah, they have to care first. Pretend some random guy who you really don't care about all that much sends you this message: "I can't believe you, LL! It's been 2 weeks since I've heard from you! That's not good enough for me. You know how angry it makes me when you go a long time between contacting me, so why do you keep doing it! You can ride my cock whenever you want, but you don't have the decency to pretend like you're in a relationship with me to call up and say hi? It's ridiculous! I mean, you won't even allow me to contact you when I want to because you're never home - you're out having sex with other men and having a good time and living your life while I wait two weeks at a time for you to call me! My d*ck must not be that good for you, otherwise you'd work harder to keep playing with it..." Wouldn't you just... laugh? I mean, seriously? Yea, well I've already scratched that email too! But I wasn't asking him to pretend anything, just be in contact with the person your banging for god sake! Perhaps I just used this as an opportunity to bring it up that I want more again.
dropdeadlegs Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I agree, it is better. I wish I would have not expressed anger at my ex when she emailed me asking to be friends with benefits. It opened the floodgates of drama as I felt entitled to an apology, or I wanted her to alleviate the pain and the feelings of worthlessness imbued upon me when she asked that did not exist before. The result was I screamed bloody murder which only devalued myself and made the situation worse. Sticking to my request for no contact, by not contacting her back, would have been much more efficient. I also wouldn't have opened myself up to her responding "I was just joking" which hurt me even worse. Had I simply clicked delete, I would have saved myself pain and likely friendships too and I have no doubt a year later, my esteem would be more high, because me reacting in anger, I kind of embarrassed myself. I came off as psycho and irrational. I ended up apologizing for my behavior. That's how low my esteem sunk. Sticking to your guns no matter what is the BEST thing you can do. If you want him out of your life, when he contacts you, ignore it until you are in an ambivalent place. Sent it to delete. Don't take any correspondence. Stick to it unless he apologizes, and even then, keep it short and civil if you return it at all. Nah, they have to care first. Pretend some random guy who you really don't care about all that much sends you this message: "I can't believe you, LL! It's been 2 weeks since I've heard from you! That's not good enough for me. You know how angry it makes me when you go a long time between contacting me, so why do you keep doing it! You can ride my cock whenever you want, but you don't have the decency to pretend like you're in a relationship with me to call up and say hi? It's ridiculous! I mean, you won't even allow me to contact you when I want to because you're never home - you're out having sex with other men and having a good time and living your life while I wait two weeks at a time for you to call me! My d*ck must not be that good for you, otherwise you'd work harder to keep playing with it..." Wouldn't you just... laugh? I mean, seriously?uh, yeah. If I were playing someone, I'd pretty much just laugh. My BIL gets letters like that and shares them among a crowd. He usually asks someone else to do the "reading." I find them embarrassing, not for myself but for the writer. Know what? The girls just keep coming back, over and over again.:rolleyes:
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Dude, I certainly can't say Dan has been the only one to keep coming back, because I've been doing it too, and he accepts it, just as I've accepted it from him. It's always one of us doing something and then kissing butt for it later.
Star Gazer Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Yea, well I've already scratched that email too! But I wasn't asking him to pretend anything, just be in contact with the person your banging for god sake! Perhaps I just used this as an opportunity to bring it up that I want more again. Around this time last year when I had "someone I was banging," we NEVER spoke EXCEPT to set up the next time we'd "bang." ( So funny to say it that way! ) He and I had a great time together, the chemistry was intense, but neither one of us wanted a relationship at that time. But had I wanted a BF back then, I would have found myself exactly in your shoes. I don't mean to be harsh here, but it just doesn't seem like you get it. Dan sees you as I saw my FWB and as my FWB saw me: an easy lay, nothing more. You're EXPECTING him to behave in BF-like ways (keeping in contact, caring about your needs, etc.) simply because the two of you are having sex. But it's not going to happen...
oppath Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Around this time last year when I had "someone I was banging," we NEVER spoke EXCEPT to set up the next time we'd "bang." ( So funny to say it that way! ) He and I had a great time together, the chemistry was intense, but neither one of us wanted a relationship at that time. But had I wanted a BF back then, I would have found myself exactly in your shoes. I don't mean to be harsh here, but it just doesn't seem like you get it. Dan sees you as I saw my FWB and as my FWB saw me: an easy lay, nothing more. You're EXPECTING him to behave in BF-like ways (keeping in contact, caring about your needs, etc.) simply because the two of you are having sex. But it's not going to happen... Yes, it's not going to happen. Lovelace, he will never give you the "just a little bit more" that you want. Why? Because he's a **** buddy. He's been a **** buddy since day 1. **** buddies, friend with benefits, whatever, all it really means is available sex. The friend part may exist in that you hang out with mutual friends, or you spend some time together before or after being laid, but it is all about available sex. That's the point. The entire point of contact is just to arrange the sex. In fact, a good rule for friend with benefits is you intentionally don't call and chat to prevent possible attachment. Most people make that a rule. Call when you want sex, but otherwise, let's not call, so we don't risk blurring the lines.
Author LoveLace Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Well there's no response from him thus far, which for him doesn't necessarily mean anything, sometimes it takes a few days. But it doesn't matte, I'm already putting in my mind that he is choosing "nothing" and it's over. It's the missing him part that will take a while to get over. But I think I now what's going on. Aside from there maybe being other women or whatever...because last time we were together, there was hours of talking and cuddling, fooling around was only a small fraction of the night. At one point he looked at me and told me I was so "sweet". Well you know what they say about nice guys finish last. Of course I didn't think of this until last night. But I think his decision was made before he left the next morning. I think it's why he held me so tight all night long. He knew it was time to stop stringing me along. And he knew I'd get mad about no contact eventually, but he also knows I"ll get over it eventually. He realized I'm better than just as a f**k buddy, but knows he can't give me better. He possibly re-thought the time I tried to say "this is it", and the note after our argument that asked him to think about ending it. I think he finally said to himself, she's right, and this can't go on. I don't know but it makes sense because of how much closer we've gotten. Gosh, he was talking my head off that night. When I talk he always listens well, but that night it was like, he was just so happy that I was there to listen to all his stories and such. It took me all this time to learn that if you get him talking he doesn't stop. Maybe he even felt like he'd opened up too much, who knows. But if he's letting me go right now, he's doing the right thing and I'm going to deal with it like I do with any other guy and get through the little "grieving" process or whatever. But it's hard, weather it was just FWB or whatever, it feels like breaking up and I'm a little sad.
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