When you know nothing

[cj1988]

Funny thing, My H sister is also BIG into her church.....how f---- up is that? All I can tell you is if you can try and remain calm, it will all unfold in front of you. It is the hardest thing to do with all the emotions going on inside you. It is absolutely awful and hurts more than anything on the planet.....I wish like hell I would have waited longer and got more on them before I opened my big mouth.

 

There will always be someone a woman like that tells....if she is as messed up as you are saying, she will make the mistake of trying to defend herself and spill it ! As far as your H, if he thinks you are leaving him and you REALLY mean it of do it, he will break.....been there done that. If you keep telling him in counseling that the DOUBT of it all haunts you and you cannot believe him and will have to leave to get over it, he will break like you have never seen........it takes a REAL scare to break the silence.....but again he will tell you whatever you accept to believe.....meaning if you back off if he tells you it was just an EA or if he says I felt something for her but nothing happened.....if you do not believe it.....do not back off, when you do he wil shut up again.....I learn more and more from my H now and he does not even know what he is telling me.....too many lies for him to keep up with so he tells another ! It is becoming boring and where I do not even care anymore. I am not allowed to threaten her or even ask about it anymore because if I do they win....they want me to be upset and look crazy, that way they are off the hook and out of the light !

[eeyore1980]

That won't work. First of all, H is reading this thread. Secondly, he is the kind of guy who won't admit to any wrongdoing if he doesn't have to, and me leaving him isn't going to change that. If there was a PA, nothing short of pictures of the two of them together showing in explicit detail them having sex would make him admit it, and even then he would try very hard to explain it away.

He swears he isn't going to lie to me anymore, and he swears he has told me all there is to know about the affair. He has made a lot of efforts to work on our marriage in every other area. I believe he wants to make it work, and I believe he wants to make amends for what happened, unfortunately, we can't seem to see eye to eye on what needs to take place. The bottom line for me is the only way I am going to be able to work through this is to find some way to accept I am not going to be told the truth, and never catch him in another lie again. I have no idea how to go about doing that, hopefully the MC will be helpful.

[cj1988]

GOD knows you sound just like me. Now, that my H wants to be in this M I have the hardest time getting past it all. The only way I get through the day is JUST NOT care, which in turn will make it worse in the end.

 

If he is really trying and you love him, MC may work, I hope so....I know your pain and believe it or not, I am sure he is in pain as well. During the 5 months that he SAID he wanted out, he cried and kept saying that it was too late.....what does that sound like to you? He said it was becasue I broke him and the last straw was me accusing him and his sister (yes I called her and asked how long had she been f---- her brother) and he was torn up.....too late sounds like he was in love with her and he was hurt because he could not love me again ! THAT IS WHAT HAUNTS ME EVERYDAY....read my thread about the taped conversation......I had to hear my H telling another woman how much he loved her over and over again, that is what I live with ! Sorry, got a little upset.....so, look at my situation and see yours, if you love him, make it go away, it TAKES lots of time ! Maybe years they say, but it does go away !

[eeyore1980]

CJ, I read as much of your thread as I could stand, man, it hurt me so much to see that.

I met my brothers when I was 30 years old, and we love each other, and we talk on the phone, but nothing like that. I'm not trying to open any wounds, I just want you to know I am sorry, sorry, sorry you have gone through this.

My husband hooked up with his skank when I made him stay home with our daughter while the rest of us went out of state for Thanksgiving with one of these brothers. I even took my brother who is my adopted brother with us. This was the first time I had stood up for my rights and myself, and I get him having an affair as a result. It started before we left, but after I made him cancel their plane tickets.

This same brother had a massive heart attack in Jan., and I jumped on a plane the very next day to be at his side and support his wife, phone records show H called skank as soon as he dropped me off at the airport, like as he was pulling away from the curb, and I was in a situation of crisis, not knowing if my brother was going to make it.

My brother was in bad shape, and I stayed a week and a half. As soon as I got home, I got a script for xanax, went to the pharmacy, was waited on by skank, and she never spoke a word. The conversation we eventually had, I asked her was she aware while she was carrying on with my H, I was sitting in a hospital wondering if my brother would live or die? She said, yes, and she was very concerned about the situation. So doesn't it seem like if she wasn't invested in keeping the relationship going and keeping me in the dark, it would have been natural for her to ask me about my brother when she saw me right after I got back? I know my husband kept her up to date on my comings and goings, so she would have known I had just gotten home. My brother ended up having to get a heart transplant. The second time I flew out, my SIL called me hysterically, one of the staff told her my brother couldn't be taken off the machine he was on, and he only had 3 days to live. I was in the middle of a nervous breakdown trying to get there, and was gone 2 and a half weeks. H stayed in constant contact with skank the whole time, except he flew out to join me the last few days I was there, and didn't have contact I could find, though there are several calls incoming that show his number, which is exactly how it came up on the bill when she was blocking her caller id and calling him.

He actually had the nerve to defend himself against a PA by asking me, "When could we have gotten together?" I also spent 16 days in Europe with my daughter during July.

This whole thing has been absurd. I've got a lot of things that look like he was having a serious EA, even so far as a PA, then I have a lot of things that look like he was at least torn, and trying hard to make things better with me. So many contradictions he can't or won't explain, it is making me crazy.

[cj1988]

So weird, my H and the sis asked me the same thing "when do you think and where that we were having sex? I staretd telling them all the places and how etc......I was probably right about them all. My H picked a fight with me on Thanksgiving so he could leave and call her and say "Good Morning Baby".......I heard her voice mail. So, you see they are all the same. Every time I bring up her, he never answers and brings up something I did to change the direction so he does not have to answer. I live in the south, BUT we are not raised as people think that incest is allowed. I am not sure and want to believe it was never physical, but know he was in love with her. He was writing down love songs (Baby I love your way, Lady, With or without you) and he never liked love songs before.

 

I am not bragging, but I put her to shame. I am very thin, tall and take very good care of myself....she is an old tomboy that is out of shape, heavy and FAKE....But she would get high with him and drink like the fish....so you see YOU NEVER know people even your spouse as you think you do......I guess the kicker for me that I cannot forgive is after. He would not touch me, told me he loved me but was not in love with me anymore.....continued to call her everyday until this past July ( she started ignoring him) he is a GORGEOUS man and it surprises even me he could fall for someone like that knowing he likes good looking women. It is just so odd. He said they have a bond or did that he has longed for in a sibling (he was never close to the family he grew up with and felt out of place) and was so happy to have someone that loved him as she did, unconditionally. That all makes sense in a way because my H is very loving and very emotional. I could almost believe it all except he is very sexual as well and falls for the one that he can be INTIMATE with in that way.

 

For you.....IF she said she knew about your brother and was concerned for the situation, WHY did she not say "How is your brother, your H told me all about it, I am sorry? Also, if he is calling her right after he dropped you off that is f---- up ! You see the addiction part is just that ! They cannot wait to talk if even that is all they do.....if the conversations were anything like my H, that sucks ! They bond with the complete opposite of what they have....you say she is a nut case, you are not.

 

Reading some of your replies you had the same sexual problems we did.....I was not into him as much for sometime. I was raped at 8 and in turn found out in therapy that plays a big part in my life. I cannot give love if I do not know how to recieve....I do believe with all my heart that both our H's now know they were so wrong and feel shame.....not enough to make me stop hating it !

[eeyore1980]

I live in the south, too, so you don't have to tell me. I also know about the sibling bond, etc. The first time I ever laid eyes on someone who looked even remotely like me was when I had my first child, and that is hard for people to understand who were not put up for adoption. It is very odd some of the weird habits I share with my blood siblings, since we were raised separately. My SIL has had a lot of good laughs about it, and once when we were comparing notes, she said my brother (only full, and we are only 13 months apart) will cut off his big toenail and then chew on it for an hour or so. I don't do toenails (eww) but if I break a long fingernail, I do the same thing. She says we are the only two people she has ever known who do that. My bio brothers all tell me over and over how much like bio mom I am, and since she passed away a couple of years ago, I think part of the reason we have become even closer is for them it is like part of her is still here. When I first met my full brother, it was like we had both been missing a piece of ourselves for so long and had finally found it. We became very close instantly, within 2 hours we could complete each other's sentences, and we had so much in common. So when I tell you your H and his sister's behavior is very inappropriate, and not long lost sibling bonding, I know what I am talking about.

As far as physical appearance, I am very heavy right now, and while I consider myself cute, I don't think I am some hot mama or anything like that. It doesn't seem to matter, though. Even when I was young and thin and pretty, I had a big problem with this, I lost some friendships even from their guys hitting on me to the point I was so uncomfortable I wouldn't go around those friends anymore. So I don't think superstar good looks play as much of a role as some people give it credit for. (Think Joanie on Happy Days, that's what I look like.)

As far as skank goes, I know hubby can't control what she did or didn't do, that's just another thing to think about, why did she have to hide it, she wasn't married or anything, she said they were just friends, so why was it such a big secret with her, too? From what he has told me, if it is true, I see some big red flags concerning her wanting him, and making all kinds of plans for them in her skanky little head for after she had gotten me out of the way. I think she played him for all she was worth. I don't feel any competition with her, though, because even if we had divorced, and he had hooked up with her, you just can't hide that kind of crazy for long, and it wouldn't have lasted. Part of me wishes we had split up, then at least I would know what the relationship was, how crazy is that, lol?

[cj1988]

Wow, another southern girl....I know what you mean about splitting up. I wish now that I had not fell apart and acted like a desperate fool and he would have left. She was not threat and I did not realize it then, she is his sister, they cannot be together. He was just ALL mine for so long only into me and no one compared then, here comes sister and I was history. I know she like you was his missing peice as far as family too. They had so much in common and even looked a like. The part that screwed it all up was him IGNORING me when she was around, stopped calling me and called her ALL day long....we had to be around her constantly.....we lived together 11 years and finally got married July 06. She was in the wedding and that is when it all went to hell. I actually believe he had feelings for her then. The day after our wedding he was calling her, NOT me every morning, lunch, on the way home and sometimes in between. I was in hog heaven and he was to, but NOT over his new wife.......So, you see it was not just the bonding it was the strange QUICK obsession that followed for months. I believe if it was ever a PA it lasted only 2 months before I busted it....my best friend has the tape and has listened to it a million times. She does not believe at all it was physical, but does agree something was very off and she told my H that ! He said I cannot explain it, we have a strong bond, BUT I AM NOT SLEEPING WITH MY SISTER...she believed him. She does believe he may have thought he was in love with her and in turn fell out of love with me at that point. She was the perfect woman in his eyes, I was just a pain and a mess.....so you see they do get confused even when it is NOT real. They do love us and always have....they are just stupid as hell !

 

If you want my personal e-mail address, make sure you can receive private messages on here and I will send it to you and we can talk more. Just remember that he loves you and you love him, time does help it all as well.

[eeyore1980]

I know I can't send pms until I have been here longer, I don't know if I can receive them yet. I checked my profile, and I can't find any options on it. From the guidelines I have read here, I have to reach established member status first.

 

I am waffling back and forth, and yes, it is pathetic. Right now I am sick of fighting. H made appt with MC, and I am going to do my best to not discuss anything about this with him at any time other than when we are at MC. It is not constructive at all.

 

I'd like your opinion on a side story. Skank was good friends with her ex's best friend when all this came out. He was seeing a friend of a friend. I know he was completely clueless about skank and H until day after I found out, had no idea they had contact at all. I think he was giving her a hard time about it, cause, come on... Anyway, about 2 months later, he seems to be seeing both skank and f of f. I told my friend, she told hers, f of f confronted him, and he dumped her. I also sent skank texts outlining how this guy was apparently doing to her what my husband had been doing to me with her. About a month ago this guy calls my friend and starts jumping her butt, telling her I was all wrong about skank, and skank and my H had just been friends, he wanted her to tell me this and that, then told her he was kind of drunk, and never mind, he would tell me himself. I have yet to hear from him. 2 days ago, he started trying to get back with f of f, but she won't respond. I think skank hooked up with him in part to convince him she was a victim of me and my insanity, she's bipolar, I know bipolar, and that's what they do, play the victim. This guy is single now because after a lot of years of marriage, and 2 or 3 kids, his wife left him for some guy she had been seeing on the side for some time. I worked with this guy years ago, so we recognize each other, but don't KNOW each other. I don't have bad feelings about him, he might have bad feelings about me, but I'm good with people, and I think even if he started out like that, once he talked to me for a little bit he would get over it.

I was thinking about emailing him, and ask and/or offer to meet up with him, share some beers or something, and talk. Do you think that's a good idea?

[cj1988]

Yes, I think that is a great idea for many reasons. First, if the skank has played you down then you have the right to tell your side. Second, when he was drunk he seemed to be concerned enough for you to know the "truth", but who knows the lies she has told him. Last, if you do meet up listen closely for clues. That is how I caught dear SISSY in lies. What can it hurt....also, if he really knows skank, he knows she is a nut and what she is really capable of....by the way, Joanie was a cutie....I always wanted to be her when I was young ! I look like Helen Hunt with tweezed eyebrows and a smaller nose and red hair! I also hear I look like that woman in Resident Evil (the movie) because of my RED hair and gray eyes and we are built very similar ! Who knows !

 

Last I am in Atlanta !

[eeyore1980]

Yes, I think that is a great idea for many reasons. First, if the skank has played you down then you have the right to tell your side. Second, when he was drunk he seemed to be concerned enough for you to know the "truth", but who knows the lies she has told him. Last, if you do meet up listen closely for clues. That is how I caught dear SISSY in lies. What can it hurt....also, if he really knows skank, he knows she is a nut and what she is really capable of....by the way, Joanie was a cutie....I always wanted to be her when I was young ! I look like Helen Hunt with tweezed eyebrows and a smaller nose and red hair! I also hear I look like that woman in Resident Evil (the movie) because of my RED hair and gray eyes and we are built very similar ! Who knows !

 

Last I am in Atlanta !

 

Milla Johovavich (sp), she IS hot. I love all the Resident Evil movies, my poor son got dragged to every one of them with me. I used to have curly dark red hair, right now I have mostly blond with dark blue underneath and a few blue streaks on top. I'm a freak, lol.

I think if this guy is interested, I can get some background on skank, and what I really want, what she had to say about what happened, and how well her version lines up with what I know. I don't know if he will even agree to meet with me, I don't have a lot of respect the way he jumped on my friend instead of coming straight to me. But maybe he will, if just to find out how I got his email address, lol.

Oh, I'm north of Dallas.

[cj1988]

Yes, Milla would be the one. We are shaped just alike and I have her eyes and hair color.....she has a diffrent nose, but that is it. I love those movies too. Your hair sounds like my 16 year old, he is into funky hair. I have big blonde streaks in mine. My 19 year old attends UGA and is preppy is the day is long and the lady lover, having a blast. Yes, on top of my disaster I was going through empty nest syndrome as well

 

He may be embarrased for having anything to do with her at all. She sounds like some freaks I know. I believe my H is bi-polar and that is why he drinks so much and stays high (said it was to tolerate us and the situation) but he has been drinking and smoking since he was 14.....he is a very attractive man, but has major attachment issues. I believe in my heart he just wanted someone to love him in his family. He has 5 1/2 sibs, the rest all have full sibs, so you can imagine. They also got to really know each other fast and he thought she would be there no matter what which he found out is not the case. They do not talk now at all. She never calls and avoids him as he does her, because he is hurt, she is just a nasty b---- ! So, you can see why I tried to make it work.

 

He loved me so much for years and I hurt him over and over again. We split in 2002 (he left) and I hooked up with a 21 year old, he found out and was crushed and has never got past it, said I cheated, although he was not seeing me that much at all. So, you may see how he justifies anything he did EA or PA in his head.......I feel bad for neglecting him physically, but that is NO reason to cheat. He swore to me and my best friend (seperately) on his sons life he has never touched, kissed nothing with anyone but me, she believes him, what do you think? If you read my taped thread, there was no sexual talk, just ALOT of emotion !

[eeyore1980]

I am not sure what you want me to say. I can be honest with you about my situation with my bio family, but that is going to validate some of your husband's feelings, and maybe give you a different perspective on what it is like to be in this position. If this is something you want, I will be happy to share, I just don't want to make what you are going through any more difficult than it is in any way.

I read the transcript. If it were me, I would consider it VERY INAPPROPRIATE feelings being shared between siblings, but I would not be sure if there was any PA going on. I would have done a lot of the same things you did, and probably felt a lot of the same things you have felt. I don't know your husband, though. In my case, some of the things I have thought do or don't feel right is based on how well I know my husband and how he reacts to things.

[cj1988]

Thanks, yes I would love for you to tell me how it feels to have new sibs etc....maybe he is was telling the truth, I have no idea, I was not in his position. Funny thing, they met (I located them in 2002) We were not really around them a lot at all 2003, 04, 05....you know the normal holidays and occasional ball game. Then, her and her familty started coming to our lake house late May 06, by July 06....they were getting tight and you could see they were like magnets. They laughed and her own son told me that it made him sick the way they looked at each other.

 

So, next thing I know 9-2-6 I woke up at 2AM they are UNDER the floating dock, everyone else is asleep. I sit and do not know where they are for 5 minutes, then I hear her moan (could be arm soar from hanging on the bar, who knows) I said what the F--- are you doing. She said "Honey, he is having a moment, he is crying" ok....he was super drunk and he gets emtional when he is like that....she got out and was shaking (not cold outside) I said why are you shaking she said " you scared the crap out me when you yelled" made sense. Then she told him to get out, he said NO...f--- that, you see how she is! She said, get out.....she told me he was crying about the other guy I was telling you about earlier and how it bothers him that I slept with someone when I was not wanting him all the time etc.....could have been true, I never told her about that or the guys name, she said his name.....well after that night, they were talking constantly and always trying to see each other or be around all the time....then when I could not take the fighting about her and or the NOT KNOWING, I taped them and WOW, was I freaked out. I was crying when I confronted him and asked HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME, he said with evil eyes " Because you hate me"

 

We cried all weekend and made love several times and cried some more. I said over and over again how bad it was they talked like that and he better NOT do it again, he just stared off into space and said ok. I asked how long and how it got started, he said not long and NEVER told me how that started, except she is my sister.... I love her very much and she is my sweet baby, but not like you are MY sweet baby !

 

Two weeks later I asked him to crap or get off the pot ( he had been anxious having panic attacks) I brought it up a lot about her and he said Fine, move on I want out....for 5 months he hated me would not speak, cried a lot and still called her all the time. I finally sent her a long e-mail in March of 07 and told her exactly what I thought about it and what I think happened....she was of course totally offended, but talked to me a lot the next 5 months...she would tell him " you know you aer still in love with her" on the phone and he would say " Always have always will, never been a question, but she is too insecure, cant live that way anymore" she would tell me everythig he said and tried her best to get us back together ( probably guilt or shame and or both) finally he broke in April and started coming around me again......so, I do not know what to believe ! YOu see what if he is right and I am REALLY off? I am not sure and like you it drives me insane.....to me if he were guilty he would try really hard to make US work, he did not and still does not.....if I were guilty I would feel so bad that he would be treated like a KING, you see why I am so confused....sorry so long.

 

So tell me about your reunion with the family.....my H and his sister look a like in the face......she is the only 1 of 5 that looks like him....she is passive and poor me my H does not show me affection type....she was the victim in her weird M, my H was a dream come true in that sense. When he loves you, YOU ARE the world and YOU know it ! He probably showered her with more attention in 4 months than her H in 19 years !

[eeyore1980]

I was given up at birth. My parents always told me my bio parents were married when they had me, they just didn't want kids. I thought they were just telling me that to make me feel better.

I started seriously looking in 1989. The first thing I did was call the adoption agency, they gave me this big line, I went there, thinking they were actually going to release information, and what they did was give me a price list of what everything would cost, and all identifying info would be blacked out. That was a crushing blow.

3 years I spent either working real hard, or taking a break, because I would think I was on the right track, then find I was nowhere, and it was very emotionally draining.

I got a judge to issue a court order to have my records unsealed. We went all the way to the courthouse, 2 hour drive, my insides were all in knots, I give them the court order, they were nice, but told me it would be at least Monday before they could locate my records and let me see them. It was a Friday, and that was another blow.

So I finally tracked down 100% sure my bio father's brother. I was a nervous wreck. I had my whole story planned, doing genealogical research, family connection, blah, blah, I even had notes. I called, and a woman answered, she was acting real pissed this guy was getting a call from another woman, so I thought she was his wife. I go into my spiel, and she is being all snotty, then she tells me I am mistaken, she is guy's mother, she knows all family relations, and I am not one of them. I was OMG, this is my grandmother I am talking to on the phone. I'm stumbling around, trying to figure out what to say, and my son, a baby at the time, wakes up and starts crying. She asked if that was a baby in the background, I said yes, and then she starts jumping down my throat, telling me if I thought I was going to get her son for a paternity suit, I had another think coming, blah blah. I'm freaking out at this point, so I just came right out and told her who I was and why I was calling. (Turns out my bio uncle is gay, WTF???) Anyway, she said impossible, her other son never had a daughter he put up for adoption, and she hung up on me. So I wrote her a letter giving my contact info, sorry I upset her so much, etc. and didn't know what to do next. A week later, I'm folding laundry, and my husband brings me the phone and tells me it's some man saying he is my father. Turns out he never told anyone, except his son in law, that I ever even existed. Things were really sweet right at first, but he turned out to be a major psycho, he had driven from CA to meet me, and after about a week I kicked him out of my house. He sent me death threats in the mail, sent me cash in the mail, I had quit opening his letters, just put return to sender, so then he called and griped me out for sending cash through the mail. Meanwhile, hubby and bio father had hit it off, and he continued a best buddy relationship with him for quite a while, this is one of those things from the past that still linger. Who wants to be friends with someone who is threatening to send a hit man to off your spouse, I don't care who it is. This man gave me very little useful information about my mom, but he did tell me he claimed one of her kids that wasn't his, she was pregnant when he met her, they were married when I was conceived, and were separated when I was born, and he said he had met with her at some point and signed parental rights away to child he said wasn't his anyway. With him I have one half brother, 4 half sisters. I spoke to two of the sisters a few times, one sister once, other sister and brother never. They chose to be mad at me because our father lied about ever having me, and then when he did tell them, it was to say I had tried to make contact, they needed to help him find me, he didn't care if they were mad or not, and that's my fault? I found him right before my 28th birthday. He died of a heart attack the following year.

This wasn't working out so well, so I took a break. I looked for my mom off and on, and even managed to get her last name from the husband after my father, but got nowhere. I found a number for someone with this name in the town I thought my mom was in, and called it. It wasn't her, but the woman told me there were some other people in town who were no relation to her, and she looked them up and gave me the numbers. I called the next one, thinking what a waste of time. A woman answered. I told her my name, then asked, is your name ?, she said yes, I asked, are you this age, she said yes, then she kind of laughed and asked me if she had won a prize or something. I swear I did not think for one second it was her, and I popped off with, "That depends, did you have a baby girl in this year and give her up for adoption?" There was a small pause, then she started bawling, and was saying, "Is this my baby, is this my baby?" I am tearing up relating this. I was so shocked, I almost fell down. Not the way I had planned initial contact, I can tell you that. This happened almost 2 years to the day that I had found my father.

This time was so different. Everyone knew about me, I wasn't a secret or forgotten, and I had been missed and thought about all my life. I can't describe what that feels like. From her, I have 2 half brothers, one half sister, and the full brother, the baby my father claimed wasn't his. I know it was his, not just because we look so much alike, and some of that we get from him, but my mom also was completely honest with me, my oldest brother and sister thought they were from the same dad, and she told me that right up front, and it was several years later she finally told them they had different dads. She offered to have DNA testing done to prove it before she knew my father was dead, and still offered if any of his family was willing to donate a sample. I have never met this sister, but have talked to her once, she has cut herself off from everyone, but my mom told everyone after I called, they all called me, it was so fantastic. My brother flew down a few weeks later, and we were instantly inseperable. We had so much to talk about, and the first few days he was here we stayed up all night talking.

I'm crying while I'm typing this. I still have strong emotions over this, and in some cases it was so overwhelming.

I've been thinking about what you posted. I can see, if your husband really felt in his heart that you didn't care for him, and even hated him, and then to have someone in his life who was so into him and showing so much love and affection that he felt he was completely lacking for so long (and I know the weird things adoptees are capable of thinking, I spent several years of my childhood thinking I was half black because I had very curly hair and freckles. I finally met some girls who were half black, and realized I was mistaken. I also had some times when I wondered what was so wrong with me that even as a newborn infant my own mother wouldn't want me.) how it would be easy to get sucked into something that wasn't really appropriate, but didn't seem like anything wrong at the time. If I really had to say what I would be more comfortable with, being in a 'love' relationship with either my adopted brothers, who I was raised with as brothers and sister my whole life, or one of my bio brothers, it would be bio brothers. I understand incest, and I wouldn't be with any of them like that, but my icky factor would be less with people I met as a grown woman who were grown men, versus people I grew up with as siblings.

[cj1988]

Thank you so much for you total honesty and I am very sorry it made you cry. You are like my H in many ways. He grew up with 2 sibs he thought were like him without a dad ( he left them when my H was born) At 15 he found out when the dad of the other 2 came around tht he was not the same, but knew anyway. Then fiinds out from him MOM that he lives with that no one knows he is not by that man....so he is now a big secret. He was then given his real dad number and he called ( he is now 18 and into drugs etc) he dad says he will meet him, he waited for 3 hours he never showed up. Moving on to 2000. He mother gave him the sister number he would not call and I finally did on 12-31-02. She answered I asked if she knew him and she said it sounds familiar, I said ok, he is your brother. She put me on hold and her dads best friend happened to be sitting in her office that day. She said there is some crazy lady on the phone that is telling me I have a brother named -----. She said his face dropped and she said is that true? He noded yes......she freaked and started crying, then I started crying she begged me not to hang up and got my number. She called back and wanted to meet that night ( they live 40 miles away, always have) we met them, her and the otehr brother ( has the same name is my H, how weird) the other sister was in a nut house !

 

Fast forward, they approach the dad, he denies and lies for a week and then caves.....he said he could not see him because of his W their mom, she forbid it......now 10 months after the first day, they confront the mom mad at her for keeping him away and not in their life ( my H is 1 year younger than their youngest, he was in love with my H mom, but had to stay with his W because of the kids) she finally caves and meets him and apologies etc......well that was ok for a while, but I know she does not like it he is around ! So, he connects with the brother at first and we hang out with them a little 2003 and 2004. Then they loose touch a bit (the 2 sisters never really were around us) and then 2006 she comes into play. She is around they laugh, get to know each other. The calls stareted every monring at first in late June and became 2 times a day after the DOCK thing.....then you start seeing it. The look the time, my H going to all the kids games, not wanting to be alone with me ( she had a wedding party for us at her house, I woke up to find both passed out in the RV, her pants undone, she pees outside alot when she is drinking) he was not in the bed with his W at outr party, but with her.....now moving ahead. November I start to get mad and tell him that I do not like them talking all the time and not calling me. I mention it to her, but not in those words but she got it....she said that I should not be upset because he gets me at night and they only talk during the day...then by Novemeber he is racing to his brothers house (lives next door to the sister) and coming home late at night, wasting a lot of gas.....forgot, caught him in a BIG lie in October....suppose to be at out lake house, I was there and waiting, he does not see my car, runs in and calls me and said he was there for hours and did not hear the phone outside...I walk in and he was like a deer caught in head lights. I accuse him for the first time of having an A with her and tell him I am calling her H right then...he yanks the phone out of the wall, leaves and calls HER from his cell....I call her at the same time ( she talked to him 6 minutes, did not know that until I got the records later) she LIES and tells me she talked to him earlier but not sure where he was and come to find out later ( as I told you she slips) she did know he was with his brother, right......and he told me he never told her that I accused him of F her and she said yes he did that day ! Ok, now if I were her and my brothers W just said that about me, # 1 I would not lie for him and second I would have cussed me out for saying it, yes? So, now they know I do not like what is happening, but continue talking as if i never said it bothered me.... I begged my H to spend time alone, he would pick a fight or we were at her house all the time etc....it is now a week before I taped them and I find STAMAX in his truck (sexual enhancement pill you can buy at any convienence store) ask him WHY and one was taken, he siad it was for energy one day at work.....ok.......anyway, that same weekend she does not come around at all (we are next door at his brothers house) his brother calls that Sunday and said come over and have a beer before your brother goes home, she said "Is ----- still there" (she said my name, I heard her) he said yes, she siad I am not coming then.....so I marched myself over there and asked her what her problem was and she said that I made her unconfortable now being so weird about them so she was keeping her distance to keep the peace....I said you know what, you f-----want him to yourself, go ahead, he is all yours I am getting a divorce and cannot take this crap anymore ( I was crying then) she got up and said do not leave, please....I said no he is yours....she said do not be dumb and hugged me....then my H comes over and she said you two need to get your crap together stop this fighting, I love you both and we did the group hug thing......well, you read my taped thread right? That is how she was talking about me 5 days later, she is real concerned about us huh? Telling my H he better wear protection with me because I was not all there right now and she would not put it past me to get pregnant and WE (like they were a couple) were not going to have that etc....well my H said it was just a sis as mine would be, concerned about him because we were fighting so badly.

 

You said .........how it would be easy to get sucked into something that wasn't really appropriate, but didn't seem like anything wrong at the time. If I really had to say what I would be more comfortable with, being in a 'love' relationship with either my adopted brothers, who I was raised with as brothers and sister my whole life, or one of my bio brothers, it would be bio brothers. I understand incest, and I wouldn't be with any of them like that, but my icky factor would be less with people I met as a grown woman who were grown men, versus people I grew up with as siblings

 

Above what did you mean by that....do you mean that him being so close to her or having an A would not seem wrong to him or sleeping or being in love with a sib? I was a bit confused at that point.....do you think it could be possible they did something that NASTY and GROSS and it does not bother them or did not at the time? I could never be with a blood brother, I do not care how hot he is.....and my man is hotter than anything she could EVER get in a life time......you see, by the way he was acting and if it were another woman other than his sis, I would say all his behaviour at that time, he was f---- her and in love....but he has the best alibi on the planet, I love her, BUT SHE IS MY SISTER AND YOU ARE JUST CRAZY !

[eeyore1980]

You said .........how it would be easy to get sucked into something that wasn't really appropriate, but didn't seem like anything wrong at the time. If I really had to say what I would be more comfortable with, being in a 'love' relationship with either my adopted brothers, who I was raised with as brothers and sister my whole life, or one of my bio brothers, it would be bio brothers. I understand incest, and I wouldn't be with any of them like that, but my icky factor would be less with people I met as a grown woman who were grown men, versus people I grew up with as siblings

 

Above what did you mean by that....do you mean that him being so close to her or having an A would not seem wrong to him or sleeping or being in love with a sib? I was a bit confused at that point.....do you think it could be possible they did something that NASTY and GROSS and it does not bother them or did not at the time? I could never be with a blood brother, I do not care how hot he is.....and my man is hotter than anything she could EVER get in a life time......you see, by the way he was acting and if it were another woman other than his sis, I would say all his behaviour at that time, he was f---- her and in love....but he has the best alibi on the planet, I love her, BUT SHE IS MY SISTER AND YOU ARE JUST CRAZY !

 

It wasn't bad crying, it is just very emotional. :-)

(I was responding to this, and I don't know what happened, it was like the page refreshed and my response was gone. Just in case I answer twice.)

 

Let me make it very clear I have not ever nor will I ever have any interest other than sisterly love in any of my siblings, blood or not.

 

I was thinking about this situation, and how high the emotions could get, and how I would feel about all my brothers. It is very yucky to think of my bio brothers in those terms, but the point I was trying to make is it is even more gross than that thinking about my adopted brothers that way. We have no blood ties at all, but we have the entire experience of growing up together as siblings. They are several years older than me, I can remember them taking care of me, teasing me, beating me up a few times, being mad when our parents made them play with me, etc. To me they are my 'real' brothers. Bio brothers, I can see myself in all of them, especially full brother, and they all grew up together without me, I'm the odd man out, so to speak. We all met as grown adults. However, in my case, we do revert to children every now and then, it is almost like we have to do the brother/sister things we missed out on growing up. But still, after 13 years, there is a difference in how I feel about my bio brothers versus my real brothers. I wasn't vulnerable in that way when I met my brothers, and damn sure don't think even if I had been I would ever have been able to see them in any other sense than brothers, but just because this isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't someone elses.

His alibi is not the best one on the planet. There are cases of brothers and sisters getting together in that way that are blood related and did grow up together, probably more than you hear about because it is so taboo, but it does happen. Just because I don't go around killing people doesn't mean there aren't serial killers out there, just because I have no sexual interest in children doesn't mean children aren't being molested and raped and killed, you know what I mean?

Reading more of your story, I still can't say if they had a PA or not. But based on what I've read, it seems to me it was way more than brother/sister feelings. And yes, even though I couldn't do it, I can see how someone in your husband's situation might be able to justify it and block it out and make it ok for a while at least. Look on this board how many people have had affairs and got dumped by their spouse and been surprised by it. I can't imagine any scenario where I could carry on with another man behind my husband's back and not be fully aware of what the consequences could be. That's why I never did anything like that. But apparently from what I've read in here, there's a lot of people who seem to have a great capacity for lying to themselves.

[cj1988]

Good Morning, thanks for the reply. You have been the only one that could respond to me all these months that has been in my H shoes so to speak, meaning met sibs later in life, not the other part. Now, you see what I am dealing with, one day he is my H and the next it is a horror story. I think maybe my H can put it away, but she will not be able to forever. She does not handle stress well and it is probably eating a nice hole her now IF they crossed the line. Like I said before, my therapist said he could even be telling the truth. He heard the tape and said that as emotional my H is and how he has longed to be part of something in the family sense, it could have been genuine love. My best friend tells me she loves me everyday and when she travels tells me how much she is going to miss me etc....so it is possible. Like I said, I feel trapped because if he is telling the truth, I f---- up badly again......If not, I am f---- up in the head to stay.

 

Our problem now is that he is still very distant, angry and resentful towards me. I am all the sudden he said WANTING him and sex and I did not for years, he siad I am selfish and everything has and always has been about me. He is not the same loving, sentimental man he was before her....if you hear the tape you can tell it is more him than her. He calls her his Sweet sweet baby and she said my sweet angel like she would a kid. It was just very creepy. My intuition has told me since day one it was more on the lines of this.....they talk a lot, got closer and closer, he finally told her that he thinks about her all the time, she said me too and then they admitted to each other that they may be falling in love and it has to be a secret and we will rescue each other from our loss in our M, BUT maybe just not in a physical way......you know what I mean....they seemed satisfied by just talking all day and seeing each other sometimes during the week and around all of us on the weekend. They were addicted to the secret thrill of it all and how TABOO it was made it even more risky.....I am sure now she regrets every bit of it and wishes it all had not happened.....he was the one calling her all the time, she called sometimes. He was the one that had pics of her all in his truck including a young one of her in a bikini when she looked LIKE ME now......so, you see it is him....he is so lost and needs to be loved so badly, he found his soulmate or thought he did......he said he still loves her very much but is very disappointed and she is not the person he thought she was.....that was after she and her H started screwing his best friends W together. He had heard from the brother she grew up with his 1/2, that they were swingers and did not believe it, well now he does.

 

Yoy see, she played the victim well, I remember. Her H is a HO she caught sleeping with her friend on her front porch and a couple of others.....she said it was only sex, NOT emotional (imagine that) so it was ok.....but she did the exact opposite with my H, it was ALL emotional ! So, you see she was oh he tells me I am fat and he is not emotional to me and shows little or no affection blah blah......then the next time they were around us she was all over her H and saying I love you and our NO drama life.......she is a freakin idiot......her H would be all over the ladies in front of her and they would say get you H off me and she would say Oh he is harmless, he is just drunk....whatever, I DO NOT share my man with no one !

 

Sorry I am babbling again.....anyway, I am not sure what happened and will never know, all I know is he is not the same and I think he fell in love with her and OUT with me for a while and now he is having trouble finding his love for me again......that is why I will not stay. I will not live that way, he treats me as if I did something wrong, not him......how anyone could get married and act like this right after and it NOT bother them is a monster or a NUT! I told him we were even one day, me with the other guy and him with what he did now....he said OH NO we are not even close, I NEVER f--- anybody in 13 years, you have ! He says that with conviction and said he can sleep at night KNOWING he has been faithful to me.....so you see he keeps me confused. If he did nothing physical, then yes he will write it off as nothig, he does believe you can have an EA......so you how that goes......I will never know and like you have to deal with it or leave. I have tried for over a year now and I do not think I can do it.....when I look at him I still hear the tape and see his changes. He asked if we could try for 30 days before I completely move to the lake house, I said yes......he was ok until last night and was a big a-- ! So, the up and down is the killer and I am too tired for games. I found my self thinking of other men lately (some that I know like me) and that is not normal for me, a little scary.....so we shall see, I will not cheat !

[eeyore1980]

I feel you and I ARE in the same boat, more or less. My take on this is I need to decide what I can live with and what I can accept. I don't feel guilty about that at all. I think if my marriage ends, and then some point later I found out it really was just a little more than a friendship, I am going to feel very badly what could have been a wonderful marriage was thrown away over somethng like that, but I'm not going to feel guilty. I have tried very hard for the last 5 months to work this out, and it is how he has lied to me, and actually done things to make this look worse than it might have been, that will have done me in, and I really believe it is the same for you. I believe I deserve the truth, whatever it may be, and so do you. I don't believe either of us deserve the head games we have both been subjected to.

When you were with that other guy, you were separated. I know that still hurts your husband, but that, at least to me, is not the same as cheating. Before my husband and I got married, we had lived together, and then he said he needed time, and he pretty much dumped me. I know he slept with the group slut during that time. I, on the other hand, met another man and started another relationship. Then he came begging me to come back. I still loved him, but he had hurt me very badly, so while I agreed to go back to him, I was cautious, and I told him up front I was seeing someone else, and I was going to continue to see the other guy even if we got back together. He said he was okay with that, and I did date the other guy for about a month or so before I finally broke it off with him. I was also up front with the other guy, and he said he was okay with it. I don't consider that cheating.

All I know is since this all started, I have tried to be up front with H about my feelings on this. If I am hurt over something, I try to tell him I am hurt, and why, and what it feels like for me. This is something I have to do for myself. I was very scared at first, because I felt vulnerable and like I was giving him power over me to hurt me, but the fact is he has always had that power, whether I admitted it to him or not. Same thing when I am angry, or suspicious, I tell him exactly how I am feeling. For the most part, his reactions to this have been positive. He has my heart, and what he does with it is going to determine where we go from here.

As far as the affair, he had gotten another house and was moving out in about 3 weeks or so. I decided I wanted to be with him for that last three weeks, and that is why I went to him in his separate room and asked to sleep with him, and how we ended up having sex. All the things we had between us making it difficult for me to have and enjoy sex with him no longer applied, as he was leaving in 3 weeks, so I wasn't surrendering to a lifetime of being treated like a second class citizen, it was about me, not him. I found out about skank almost a week after I first went to him. I stayed away for about 2 days, but at that point nothing had really changed, he was still going to be gone in a couple of weeks, and I needed to do what I could to try to fill up all the loneliness I had felt for so long. I didn't want to go out and pick up some guy in a bar or something, you know, I didn't want to have the desperation factor kick in after he was gone, because once he moved out, I wasn't going to be with him again.

I have to think about myself, and I am. If we are going to stay together, some things are going to have to be different, because I'm can't go back to how things were. It's not an ultimatum or anything, I have the right to live a happy life, and I'm not nitpicking to the last detail or anything, part of me being happy is the man sharing my life with me has to be honest and someone I can trust. If he can't be that man, then we don't need to be together, I would rather be alone.

[cj1988]

Yes , we are definitely in the same boat, just different situations. I do feel bad because I am not sure, he has not admitted to anything at all and makes it well known that I am very much no matter what barking up the wrong tree. He has yet to apologize except for the unexpected absense for those 5 months when he ignored me and could not deal with it all anymore. Other than that, no admission to anything wrong at all and told me Friday if I could not get past my THOUGHTS of what I think happened and what really happened and I bring it up again, he is gone with no regret. He said I have heard enough about all your gross thoughts and accusations and I will not hear it again, you are wrong as you can be and that is it. So, you see he could be bluffing or he could be telling me the truth.......you on the other hand have somewhat of an admission to something and he is trying to make it up, you just do not know what.

 

I do not know which of us are in the worst boat right now......I am just with you as far as if I cannot get past it, AS MY H has not been able to get past my little fling when he left me, I would rather be alone and start over. I have one kid as I said in college (my baby) and the other is my best friend in the world and he leaves in2 years (they both want me to leave him because of how he treats me now). I make good money and have 2 houses ( in my name).

 

How are you if you leave, ok?

[eeyore1980]

I'm ok financially for a while at least if I leave, but then it gets tricky. I make good money, but I would have to stay and have daily contact with H to keep this job, otherwise we have to shut down the business and sell everything, and I have to find another job. I don't think it would be good for me to have to stay this close to him in either scenario if this can't be fixed. I would want to take off for at least a few months and get my feet back under me. Then I have my son, 16, I don't think he would move with me if I left and went as far away as I would want to, and I don't think I could be ok leaving him behind. I wouldn't be crazy about leaving my daughters, either, but they are 18 and 20, and my whole raising of all my kids was to get them to this age and be independent, I don't feel my job is done with my son, I do with my daughters.

Then to top it off, I just got back from my doctor's for a checkup. They said I was past due for a pap, and while he was down there, he said my getting a hysterectomy was no longer just an option, it was a necessity. So great, just what I needed.

Have you and your husband gone to MC at all? At first my H refused, then when I found out he lied about emailing, and was so angry, he agreed to go. We went for a while, then we all felt we were doing good and didn't need it anymore. Wrong. So now we are going back, our first new appointment is Saturday.

[cj1988]

I HOPE they take my uterus out soon.....many problems in that area. So, you own the biz so that could get upgly if you have to see each other everyday. THe 16 year old son of ours is his, not mone, but he wants to go with me. I have raised him for 14 years (his mother gave him up to my H at birth) and he is my buddy. He cannot stand his father and wants me to leave badly, says he is a loser and I deserve so much better.

 

No, he will not go to MC. I have asked and he said that I need counseling, not him and he refuses to go. So, as you can see, he is holding to the innocent claim tooth and nail. Everyone said that if I really leave him, he will freak and cave and then go, I do not see that ! He is stubborn and will put it away and cave after the fact and I am really gone.

 

I am just tired of the up and down and am very much ready for peace and quiet !

[eeyore1980]

I am just tired of the up and down and am very much ready for peace and quiet !

 

I hear you on that. I just recently discovered that my whole thought system on how this first got started is completely wrong, so now I don't even know how it got started. It's hard to know my husband cares a lot for me, but not enough to help me work through all this pain he rained down on me.

I don't think he ever will. It's okay for me to sacrifice, but not him. There are two ways this marriage is going to work, he can tell the truth and risk the consequences, or I can figure out some way to suck it up. It's been almost 5 months already, and it's pretty clear which way HE is trying to steer this. I've picked up the tab too many times for his crap, and as far as I am concerned, I've already paid too much for this one. All the ways I have used in the past to get over some wrong or another he has done just isn't working for me this time. I seriously don't know where this goes from here. MC tomorrow, maybe that will help.

[cj1988]

I think that is or was the hardest part for me as well, wondering HOW it all got started and how he could betray me in that way, we just got married for gods' sake. He said that to him it was just a pieceof paper and that we have been married for years. I said, well that tells it all....if he considered us married when I strayed (when he left me) then why would he care we were just married, it was the same in his brain....you know what you and i can do this all day long, but what has it accomplished. We are still NOT sure what happened and pretty much miserable and freaked out 24/7.....what is our answer? It is within what we can deal with and how we really feel about our H's now.

[eeyore1980]

I think I am still in the place of trying to either find a reason to stay or a reason to go. I don't know for sure. I'm talking to skank's friend later today, I emailed last night, and he emailed back to call him. Maybe he has some useful information, or maybe he just wants to jump my ass on behalf of his friend, gf, whatever she is right now to him. The conversation he had with my friend sounded like while he was defending her as just being friends with my husband, something had come up to make him question it. That's what my friend says, anyway, I didn't hear the conversation myself. I guess I'll just have to be patient.

[cj1988]

Well, good luck and remembeer to NOT give him too much info in the beginning, let him spill FIRST. If you do, he will think of something to make it sound OK....you know what I mean? That is how I caught good ol sis in lies....I would say something and she would say, oh yeah that was when he tols me blah blah blah...then I would say, funny he told me he never said that to you or even told you ! That kind of crap, they can think up lies quickly just to keep you confused or they think they are doing that !