Author eeyore1980 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Posted February 3, 2008 So, with either one of you two, Eeyore and BMM, it's a "day to day" thing.. At any moment, it could be "THE Moment" that finally enough is enough, and the realization that, "Hey, I am 40 something years old with the complete 2nd half of my life to live, FOR ME, because you realize that you will STILL have a relationship with your spouse because of the children, but just not as H and W... That you CAN still be great Co-Parents and maybe even friends as co-parents, but you deserve alot more that what you are getting??? I am already past the realization I am 43 years old, and have to live the rest of my life for me. As odd as it seems, that is exactly what I am doing right now. In my situation, right now I am more damned if I don't than if I do. But yes, on a day to day basis, that could change. I said earlier it isn't going to take much to tip the scales for me. As far as being great co-parents, I don't know if that will happen, friends as co-parents, definitely not, not as things stand now. That's something I don't see talked about much, but he didn't just damage our marriage, he ruined our friendship.
BetrayedMM Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 No stamp, that moment has passed for me, but the results you are cheerfully hoping for just aren't the case. There is no 'we'. There is no 'together'. I will do what I need to do, she will do whatever she wants, and I cannot count on any agreements aqt all from her, including parenting, co or not. I should have been more clear. I was speaking of the emotions, but I think I gave the wrong impression that I was optimstic about any future with my wife. I am simply more optimistic about MY OWN future in general, because I alone control which path to take. That's it, but it's a start. She needs to know that it will get better for her soon, and my 'fate' might help her in some way, see a possibility of hope.
stampdaddy Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 No stamp, that moment has passed for me, but the results you are cheerfully hoping for just aren't the case. There is no 'we'. There is no 'together'. I will do what I need to do, she will do whatever she wants, and I cannot count on any agreements aqt all from her, including parenting, co or not. I should have been more clear. I was speaking of the emotions, but I think I gave the wrong impression that I was optimstic about any future with my wife. I am simply more optimistic about MY OWN future in general, because I alone control which path to take. That's it, but it's a start. She needs to know that it will get better for her soon, and my 'fate' might help her in some way, see a possibility of hope. Understood... Maybe by you leading, she will follow... I hope that is the case
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Posted February 3, 2008 Ya know, there is a big difference in our situations- I was the one who 'rescued' her from a very similar situation to the one you came from. Ironically, it is like looking into the reverse of my situation, and seeing the exact same results. Interesting, and gives me much to think about. He didn't 'rescue' me from anything. I didn't start dating him until 2 years after I left home, I had a job, a place to live, etc. I saved myself, and I continued to work to save myself, I know you didn't mean it that way, but please don't give him the credit for how hard I have worked to get over my past. For me the irony lies in the excuses for having an affair. I had all these excuses x a hundred or more, yet, who is in here as the BS? I never cheated on him. Lack of communication, he never gave me a chance. Even our lack of sex was because of his actions, and he is the one who made the decision to move into the spare room, I asked him repeatedly not to, I am the one who kept trying to work it out, and he was the one too rigid to bend. Up to now it has been it is his way or no way, and I finally got tired of being the one to always sacrifice.
BetrayedMM Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 Oh man, now I gotta correct this too- She needs to know that it will get better for her soon, and my 'fate' might help her in some way, see a possibility of hope I was referring to the OP, NOT my wife. She needs to... do what she needs to do. I don't have to be a part of that.
stampdaddy Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 Oh man, now I gotta correct this too- I was referring to the OP, NOT my wife. She needs to... do what she needs to do. I don't have to be a part of that. LOL, now I am really confused as to what you mean....
BetrayedMM Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 I actually meant past, childhood trauma, abusive relationships, etc. and no, it wasn't really a rescue at all(I wasn't exactly tame myself either), it's just a stereotype way of describing it. But, what I'm getting at, it's as if I see how my wife would feel if I did this to her- exactly the same. Does that help me understand her affairs? No. But, it's food for thought. And, perhaps reading my posts will help your husband understand how you feel. He didn't 'rescue' me from anything. I didn't start dating him until 2 years after I left home, I had a job, a place to live, etc. I saved myself, and I continued to work to save myself, I know you didn't mean it that way, but please don't give him the credit for how hard I have worked to get over my past. For me the irony lies in the excuses for having an affair. I had all these excuses x a hundred or more, yet, who is in here as the BS? I never cheated on him. Lack of communication, he never gave me a chance. Even our lack of sex was because of his actions, and he is the one who made the decision to move into the spare room, I asked him repeatedly not to, I am the one who kept trying to work it out, and he was the one too rigid to bend. Up to now it has been it is his way or no way, and I finally got tired of being the one to always sacrifice.
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Posted February 3, 2008 But, what I'm getting at, it's as if I see how my wife would feel if I did this to her- exactly the same. Does that help me understand her affairs? No. But, it's food for thought. And, perhaps reading my posts will help your husband understand how you feel. I get what you are saying, and I understand. You have probably done the same thing I have done, asked your wife several times, "how would you feel if I had done this to you?" For me, the answer didn't really mean anything, and my husband knows that. He even pointed out it wasn't a fair question, because I'm not the one who has lied to him so much about so many things. I will tell you one thing I feel, and I am very angry about it, too. I don't know if this even applies in your situation, but if anyone in my marriage DESERVED to be cheated on, it was my husband, not me. But I DIDN'T. I had several opportunities to, but I always made it clear I wasn't that kind of person, look elsewhere. Even knowing what I do now, I still don't think I could do that, and it's something I have given a lot of thought to. I have a 'revenge' disorder, for lack of a better term, lol.
BetrayedMM Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 Yes, revenge. I don't need revenge. I need justice- things must be set right. Sinking to THAT level does nothing for justice. That being said, I too feel strongly the sense that karma is out of balance, that I was the 'good one' in the relationship, that she was rotten to begin with, then does this on top of everything else. The scales of justice need balance, they are tipped almost vertical the wrong way. I don't care. The thing I realized is that there is nothing more she can do to hurt me, and when it comes to justice, the scales are tipped far against her, not me. It is no longer us. There is no way she can drag me with her. She will pay whatever price she has to pay, I have nothing to do with that. I have paid MY price, my sentence has been served, I am in balance, she is not and this is all her problem. I'm having trouble expressing myself today, so I guess I'll bow out for now. Best of luck!
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 Yesterday I had several triggers go off, and I completely lost my temper. We ended up fighting, and then it turned into a calm discussion. He finally admitted in so many words there were more than friendship feelings, and he also agreed we weren't going to make it trying to pretend none of this happened and trying to start from right now. The problems from the past are going to have to be dealt with. I asked at our local motel if he had ever checked in there, and they said they could look, then give the info to the police and have the police give it to me. I asked him if he would go to the motel with me, and give them permission to tell me, and he said he would. He's even going to take his pickup so they can check by license plate number. I don't really think he did check in there, but now I should be able to know for sure. I still don't know what to do about the motels in the town next over. I am finally seeing a chance here, which is more than I could say yesterday. We had a good night last night, and I feel he does love me deeply, and also he is really very sorry. I don't know how to describe it, but I just felt off of him last night how much he doesn't want to lose me, and that was something I needed to feel.
stampdaddy Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 I am glad you are feeling better... So, was your H "open and honest" do you feel? What were these "other feelings" that he said he had?
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 I am glad you are feeling better... So, was your H "open and honest" do you feel? What were these "other feelings" that he said he had? He wasn't as open and honest as I would like him to be, but I know him, and I know this is hard for him, I'm not the only one with issues. I can tell he is having an internal struggle to come to terms with what he has done, and I honestly believe he has not been able to face the full truth for himself, yet. He hasn't seemed to be able to grasp the concept until yesterday there is a lot of space between being just friends, and having sex, his attitude was it was either/or. This for me was like banging my head against a brick wall. I told him about a relationship I had with a guy, Mark, when I was young, how we would talk on the phone every day, and how we had strong feelings for each other. I told him how much I looked forward to hearing from him every day, and then one day we tried to go out on a date with some friends, but we were both so painfully shy we barely even looked at each other, much less had any physical contact at all. It was very awkward and uncomfortable, and the next day we went back to our phone relationship like the date never happened. I explained clearly through this story we were not just friends, we were more than that. I also told him I spent a lot of time talking to Mark's friend, and how my feelings for him were those of a friend, and how much of a difference there was between how I felt talking to Mark, and talking to his friend. He said the affair was like what I had with Mark. So now I have a better idea of what I am dealing with.
stampdaddy Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 so you are still in the dark as to: How long? Did they kiss? Did they do more? Did they go on a date? etc....
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 so you are still in the dark as to: How long? Did they kiss? Did they do more? Did they go on a date? etc.... Technically, you are right. I don't think there was more, though. I'm not 100% sure, and I will still check it out as much as I can, but this feels right to me for the first time in all these months. It wasn't just the words he spoke, but he way he said it, the way he looked, the way he touched me and held me, I feel in my heart, no proof to back it up, but I just feel it, that he loves me very deeply, and even when all this was going on he loved me very deeply. I don't think he was able to get past that love, though I think he was trying to, to justify betraying me any more than what he was doing, the talking on the phone. I think he had feelings for her, but I don't think it was as strong as love. I also get a strong sense of shame from him, again, no physical proof, but just the way it feels, and it seems to me like that is where all the evasiveness has come from, he is having a difficult time putting together for himself how he could have done this with the love he has for me, instead of doing something constructive to make our marriage better. This leads me to feel like even though I know I was trying to improve our marriage, there are things I could have done better, and I could have tried harder. I don't blame myself at all for his affair, but I do bear some of the responsibility for how bad our marriage was.
cj1988 Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 Hello Sweetie, as you see HE is coming clean a little at a time. You have to remember to put yourself in his place, IF He tells you the whole truth now that not only makes him a cheater, but A HUGE liar as well and then what? He is afraid you may leave him, put him in the doghouse, but most of all he is afraid he will have to face himself......he in turn would not be able to sleep, eat etc.... all that you are going through, he would at that point....so WHY would he ever tell the tructh ! If he does not admit it, it never happened in his mind and HE gets to chill out while you freak out. ....SO, now he will tell you small parts to get you to get past it in a sense or be able to settle down some and not be so "In the darK" he only tells you what he thinks you can handle and at the same time he considers himself actually being honest with about it all. They will tell you what little they can to get past it all period !
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 Hello Sweetie, as you see HE is coming clean a little at a time. You have to remember to put yourself in his place, IF He tells you the whole truth now that not only makes him a cheater, but A HUGE liar as well and then what? He is afraid you may leave him, put him in the doghouse, but most of all he is afraid he will have to face himself......he in turn would not be able to sleep, eat etc.... all that you are going through, he would at that point....so WHY would he ever tell the tructh ! If he does not admit it, it never happened in his mind and HE gets to chill out while you freak out. ....SO, now he will tell you small parts to get you to get past it in a sense or be able to settle down some and not be so "In the darK" he only tells you what he thinks you can handle and at the same time he considers himself actually being honest with about it all. They will tell you what little they can to get past it all period ! Everything you say is valid, and could very well be true in my case. Today he is going with me to the local motel to give permission to them to tell me if he has ever checked in there. Do I think he did? No, because we live in such a small town, everyone knows everyone else and what they drive, and it would be way too easy to get caught. Am I still going to check? Damn straight. I have called two motels in the town next over so far. One checked, and he wasn't there, the other one acted like they had no way to access the records. I will continue to pursue this until I get the information from each and every hotel/motel/ bed & breakfast, even if it involves me going to each one in person with him in tow. He can't refuse, it would look suspicious, and then we would be right back where we started from. She lives with her parents, her mom doesn't work and is in bad health, so while it isn't impossible, it's unlikely, my house, our kids are in and out, we have nosy neighbors, again, not impossible, but unlikely. I hope this isn't the case. I hope my feelings are right, and we will get past this and be great together. I can only check so much, and if I keep coming up with nothing, at some point I'll have to either accept it or not.
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 (edited) Posted twice Edited February 4, 2008 by eeyore1980 Posted twice
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 Hello Sweetie, as you see HE is coming clean a little at a time. You have to remember to put yourself in his place, IF He tells you the whole truth now that not only makes him a cheater, but A HUGE liar as well and then what? He is afraid you may leave him, put him in the doghouse, but most of all he is afraid he will have to face himself......he in turn would not be able to sleep, eat etc.... all that you are going through, he would at that point....so WHY would he ever tell the tructh ! If he does not admit it, it never happened in his mind and HE gets to chill out while you freak out. ....SO, now he will tell you small parts to get you to get past it in a sense or be able to settle down some and not be so "In the darK" he only tells you what he thinks you can handle and at the same time he considers himself actually being honest with about it all. They will tell you what little they can to get past it all period ! I also wanted to tell you I know your pain. I'm sorry your marriage has turned out so badly. Yesterday I couldn't see any hope for my marriage turning out any differently. When you talked about justice, I understood completely, and I wanted justice, too, but I also wanted revenge, I wanted to be the one to inflict the pain on this man who I have loved so long and so hard like he did to me. Today I do feel some hope that things might be able to turn out differently. I know I may be mistaken, but I am still not going to feel like a fool, even if I am. I didn't do this, no matter what this turns out to be. If he is still lying, that would make him a fool, for throwing away something that is so precious and hard to find. I can see myself in your place, I have seen myself in your place. I might be in your place again tomorrow. But at least today I'm going to allow myself the hope for a happy ending.
cj1988 Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 I also wanted to tell you I know your pain. I'm sorry your marriage has turned out so badly. Yesterday I couldn't see any hope for my marriage turning out any differently. When you talked about justice, I understood completely, and I wanted justice, too, but I also wanted revenge, I wanted to be the one to inflict the pain on this man who I have loved so long and so hard like he did to me. Today I do feel some hope that things might be able to turn out differently. I know I may be mistaken, but I am still not going to feel like a fool, even if I am. I didn't do this, no matter what this turns out to be. If he is still lying, that would make him a fool, for throwing away something that is so precious and hard to find. I can see myself in your place, I have seen myself in your place. I might be in your place again tomorrow. But at least today I'm going to allow myself the hope for a happy ending. Good for you that is the place that took me a year to find. My H now wants to work things out and now I do not see the use. He should have thought about that before he treated me so UGLY, innocent or not, he put me through hell for 5 months after I confronted him and took her side over mine. I also realized it was not about her or the supposed EA that is our problem, as you find there are many you never knew about that got you to this point in your M. You have to go staright to the core issues that you have and then this will not matter as much as you thought or made to be within YOU. As you stated WE did nothing to make them do this but our lives before it was not great either way. I have to believe that sometimes BAD things happen for a reason but we are unware at the time of WHAT is happening WHY it happened. It opens your eyes to much more than what they did this time, but they have been doing the whole time to you before the OW were even in the picture. I was involved with being a mother and a W I lost ME and then it went down from there. I was not into him or sex for a lot of reasons, and that was wrong and should have been addressed long before she came along. But, I still believe no matter what it would have played out just as it did.....people that get into A live in a unrealistic world and do not know what is happening and really do not care, AT THE MOMENT. But, when they realize what happened they want YOU again and sometimes, the BS is in a better place without them and GLAD it happened and opened their eyes, do you know what I mean? I love my H with all my heart, but as my mother said I cannot forgive HOW he treated me after and during......I do not know that man, but now know he exists and what he is capable of....I do not want THAT man, but they are one in the same !
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 I'm sorry, I mixed up your thread with BetrayedMM's. Wow, you have really been through a lot, and a lot worse than what I am going through. And I can even see it from another point, because I'm adopted, and found my bio family, including 2 half brothers and one full. We have become close, but not like that. I can't even imagine it, what were they thinking? What did he say about it? My heart really goes out to you in this, what a effing mess.
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Posted February 4, 2008 Hello Sweetie, as you see HE is coming clean a little at a time. You have to remember to put yourself in his place, IF He tells you the whole truth now that not only makes him a cheater, but A HUGE liar as well and then what? He is afraid you may leave him, put him in the doghouse, but most of all he is afraid he will have to face himself......he in turn would not be able to sleep, eat etc.... all that you are going through, he would at that point....so WHY would he ever tell the tructh ! If he does not admit it, it never happened in his mind and HE gets to chill out while you freak out. ....SO, now he will tell you small parts to get you to get past it in a sense or be able to settle down some and not be so "In the darK" he only tells you what he thinks you can handle and at the same time he considers himself actually being honest with about it all. They will tell you what little they can to get past it all period ! Well, you were right. We went to the motel, and they said he had not ever checked in there. Then on the way back, he completely backpedals into his "We were just friends" crap. I told him I was done, and he could pack his crap and move out. What an *********.
Elilmomma Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) I am so sorry to hear that no matter what he's still lying to you. I wish you the best of luck to find some happiness and some peace You deserve to. It's very unfortunate that you have to fo through this kind of heartache and pain.Good luck in finding some sort of peace and happiness you deserve it. Edited February 5, 2008 by Elilmomma
cj1988 Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 Well, you were right. We went to the motel, and they said he had not ever checked in there. Then on the way back, he completely backpedals into his "We were just friends" crap. I told him I was done, and he could pack his crap and move out. What an *********. You see, they are all the same. As long as he thinks he does not have to tell you the real truth and that you will NEVER find out, he will keep up with the same old crap " we are just friends". My H finally told me that he was very sorry for leaving me out, BUT it was not what I thought etc.....same old crap too.....all I can tell you is that they are liars and as long as we believe them, they got away with it ! So, it is still all up to you....like you I still love my H so it makes it so hard to NOT believe them sometimes, BUT my gut and the phone records and the taped conversation I heard was ecough for me to know something went on atleast an EA. We as woman have that sometimes terrible gift of intuition....use it ! If you keep on him, I think he will break.....my H cannot, it is not just another woman, it is against the law and GROSS. He can never admit it, yours can !
cj1988 Posted February 5, 2008 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Also, if they were "just friends" then WHY did he hide it all this time? I have a lot of male friends and my H knows all of them and when they call and they are OUR friends.....If they hide ANYTHING from you no matter how big or small, it is not innocent! Your best bet is to talk to the freak he was doing it with.....IF she still feels something for him, she will cave, she will not be able to help in her state of mind.....think about it, what does she have to loose? NOTHING ! She may think that he will leave you if she tells you, so go after her ! The more I talked to my sister in law, the more lies she spilled and did not even know it....she had no idea what he told me (did not tell her but a few bits and pieces to see what she would say) so, everytime I found out something more. You see she had to back pedal BIG TIME......she had everything to lose including her parents and other sibs as well as kids and H.......her mom hates that my H is in their life in the first place, so you see she had to say " He loves you so much and could never cheat on you ever" crap..... Edited February 5, 2008 by cj1988
Author eeyore1980 Posted February 5, 2008 Author Posted February 5, 2008 I can't have a conversation with him about his anymore without a third party present. He said he would make an appointment with a marriage counselor, so that is where any more discussion about this is going to take place. The talks and arguments we have had have been ridiculous. As far as getting info from the other woman, not going to happen. She is divorced, and I found out right from the first what a whore she is. I was told by everyone I asked the morning after I found out her husband caught her having an affair with the married pharmicist and that's why the got divorced. I called her to verify the number plastered all over my husband's phone bill was indeed hers, said goodbye, and hung up. She called me back, and I told her I didn't want to talk to her at that time, because I was too upset, but no, she proceeded to tell me, with no remorse whatsoever, how I had NO RIGHT to be upset, they were just friends, she had lots of male friends, I said me, too, but I had no SECRET male friends, she said she was a GOOD CHRISTIAN and SHE CONSIDERED MARRIAGE VOWS VERY SACRED, so I told her is that so? Would you like to know what everyone I asked about you this morning said? She said yes, I told her, then she started yelling at me about how awful I was to spread gossip like that about her, I said I didn't spread shyt, this was told to me, I didn't even know who the hell she was, then she told me HOW DARE ME TALK TO HER THAT WAY, and WHAT A TERRIBLE PERSON I WAS, and she hung up on me. I found out later on that day none of her friends knew anything about her relationship with my husband, so she kept it just as secret as he did. I have since found out this isn't the first time she has done this, her own father told me straight to my face he didn't believe what she did with my husband was just friends, and she is bi-polar in denial. I made several attempts later to contact her, finally text barraged her for a couple of weeks, then gave her an ultimatum to talk to me by 5pm, or I was turning over all records of contact to her priest, with a lengthy explanation behind it. (She is a liturgical minister, or something like that) She texted me back to make sure I took my husband with me, and that would take care of it, so I invited him, he declined, the deadline passed, I wasn't bluffing. I don't know what happened to her, but after a few weeks, she's back on the Catholic newsletter as being appointed to offer communion to the homebound, so she maybe got a slap on the wrist. Her father told me there was no use in confronting her about anything, they had been down that road, she turns it around on the accuser, blames them for everything, and acts like she is a victim, no matter what she has done. I got to experience it first hand. I hit a dead end no matter which way I turn.
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