question for Triarge and other MM

[smartgirl]

As you may recall, I've indicated that I am having a very hard time because my H continues to work with his former OW. For about a year she continued to button-hole him disecting the whole A and trying to get assurances that he had really, really loved her. Needless to say, this did little to move our recovery along. He says she has said nothing for the last year, but I can't be sure he would tell me since he knows I would get upset.

 

I know he does not think ill of her and continues to feel badly that she was hurt. Beyond that I'm not sure what his feelings are. I am very threatened by the continued proximity and worry that it keeps his memories and feelings alive. He seems to think that as long as he is not seeing her anymore that should be enough for me.

 

I have to say that he has been great and we have probably racked up 2000 hours of talking about all this. He has tried to be a more attentive husband, etc.

 

So my question is -- is it possible to work that closely with someone you were very serious about (discussions about leaving spouses for each other but no actual action in that direction) and not still feel the kind of affection that could cause mental mischief?

[Elilmomma]

Personally I don't think it is possible for any two people to work together knowing that they had some strong feelings for eachother. It's extremely hard especially when they were planning some sort of a future together and from what you said it's seems like she still has feelings for him otherwise she would not ask him if he really cared about her. Has your Hubby thought about looking for another job? I think he has to make it really clear to her that IT'S OVER.... and not be so nice about it then she should get the hint and leave him alone.

[smartgirl]

The last A related talking from her was about a year ago. I doubt it is really over for her, but she is willing to pretend that it is to save face. So that will have to do.

 

What I am concerned about is the affect being around her has on my H and whether it could be affecting his feelings for me. I want to know whether it is really possible for him to shut that emotional door while working with her.

 

He runs the company and can't leave. She has a very easily transportable job and a history of leaving jobs after only a few years. She is hanging in this time whether it is for spite or to try and look like she isn't bothered or because she doesn't want to feel like she was run off. Winning is very important to her.

[Triarge]

I suppose its kind of ironic that when I type this my ex OW is sat about 5 meters away to my right.

 

Shortly after the break up that would have bothered me in some way. Now it doesnt phase me. I sometimes find it curious how I dont think about her or I dont even notice she's near.

 

Sometimes seeing her might trigger a memory, or I might be concious of myself around her just because theres history, but nothing else is there anymore.

 

At home I never think of her anymore. Driving to work I stop and smile these days on how I think about stupid everyday stuff like bills, holidays and stuff rather than the A.

 

Its all faded into indifference. This didnt happen overnight. Its taken over a year but this is where I am at now. It feels so good and right that I cant even imagine what I was once thinking.

 

Some might say that whilst I continue working with her then there is a risk of it sparking up. I cant imagine how that could ever happen again. Not in any recess of my mind. I would say there was more risk before the A than there is now. Theres no mystery. I know what (crap) I'd be shacking up with now if I was stupid enough to even concider it.

 

One more important stamp in my mind is this.. Even if I split with my wife for some reason; I wouldnt go looking up the OW. Knowing what I know about her. How she cheated and left her husband so easily. I wouldnt want her as a partner even if I was single. I cant see her being any sort of mother to my children.

 

What I have realised is that all that 'flair' I saw in her back then was only skin deep. She doesnt have the hidden depths my wife does. She doesnt have the courage to go through what my wife has. The OW used to say that she was the 'strong' one and I was 'weak' becaus she left her husband. I realise that theres nothing strong about running away and hoping some new guy was going to fill the blanks; make you happy.

 

So back to the question. Can I work with the OW. Yes I can so long as my W is ok with it and she says she is. She might have the same doubts as you do and that may be harming our relationship in some way - I hope not.

[smartgirl]

Thank you so much Triarge. My H has said some of the same things you did, but it is hard to fully trust and believe.

 

I've had a hard time separating his feelings and actions from that first year after d-day from those of the second year. I've been afraid that because he still had feelings and kept secrets from me during that first year that he might be doing it now. It isn't like he has been giving me monthly updates on how is feelings have evolved. So from the wife's perspective you aren't sure what is different and what is the same.

 

I've only just been coming to grips with the fact that because he had trouble untangling himself -- in no small part because they worked together -- doesn't mean that he continues to be in that same mental state now. It doesn't help that I know how persistent she is and how hard she works playing the fun sexpot. As a woman, you know guys oten fall for that no matter what their brain is telling them.

 

Anyway, it was so great to hear this from you because it is so different from your earlier posts where you were still struggling. I wish you and your wife all the best and I am so sorry you are now getting drug into this world again via your father.

[StillSame]

smartgil, your H's situation is different from Triarge's situation. Triarge doesn't like this OW anymore; he probably dislike her. But, your husband "feel badly that she was hurt." A little sad play by her, your husband will be hugging, kissing, etc. her.

 

This is very dangerous. His feelings for her has not completely ended and seeing her everyday and not be able to HAVE her is not helping your marriage.

[Tomcat33]

I suppose its kind of ironic that when I type this my ex OW is sat about 5 meters away to my right.

 

Shortly after the break up that would have bothered me in some way. Now it doesnt phase me. I sometimes find it curious how I dont think about her or I dont even notice she's near.

 

Sometimes seeing her might trigger a memory, or I might be concious of myself around her just because theres history, but nothing else is there anymore.

 

 

Its all faded into indifference. This didnt happen overnight. Its taken over a year but this is where I am at now. It feels so good and right that I cant even imagine what I was once thinking.

 

 

I know this thread was taken out "specifically" for Triage and all but since we are talking about him...something just doesn't make sense witht the above post. Tirage was posting this thread in Oct of last year and in Dec ie. a month ago he was still emailing with the OW all be it to end things with her he was still emailling.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t135068/

 

SO Triage, pardon my ignorance but where is this "year" that you speak of when you say you have come a long way and you are now a changed man!?!?! If only in Nov, you were still very much filled with doubt and desire. Maybe you are counting from Dec 2007 to Jan 2008 a year?

 

And when you say nothing is there anymore then pat yourself on the back you have a come a very long way in two months considering you were in love with this woman for 2 yrs!!! That's truly remarkable.

[Tomcat33]

smartgil, your H's situation is different from Triarge's situation. Triarge doesn't like this OW anymore; he probably dislike her. But, your husband "feel badly that she was hurt." A little sad play by her, your husband will be hugging, kissing, etc. her.

 

This is very dangerous. His feelings for her has not completely ended and seeing her everyday and not be able to HAVE her is not helping your marriage.

 

 

I was going to say the EXACT same thing and I forgot, thanks for pointing that out because it is VERY important. I agree, the fact he feels sorry for hurting her is dangerous having her around all the time...

[StillSame]

Smartgirl, let me ask you this question. How did you found out about the affair? Whatever way that you found out, you can't use it anymore, can you? Because he already knew how you found out and if he does it again, he would go underground and ensure that you will not find out.

 

Are you with your H 24/7? As matter of fact, you're not with him at all for at least 8 hours a day during the work days, right? If they have a quick thing twice a week during lunch at his office, would you ever found out? What about twice a month at a nearby motel during work hours, would you find out if he lie and left no evidence? There is no trace of communication through email or cell because he has the opportunity to communicate with her in person every day, over 8 hours a day. If she is not over her and he, at one point disires her, she can get him hooked easily again.

[StillSame]

I was going to say the EXACT same thing and I forgot, thanks for pointing that out because it is VERY important. I agree, the fact he feels sorry for hurting her is dangerous having her around all the time...

 

TomCat, just curious, are you and your MM still together?

 

Smartgirl, sorry for the temporary T/J.

[Triarge]

SO Triage, pardon my ignorance but where is this "year" that you speak of when you say you have come a long way and you are now a changed man!?!?! If only in Nov, you were still very much filled with doubt and desire. Maybe you are counting from Dec 2007 to Jan 2008 a year?

 

And when you say nothing is there anymore then pat yourself on the back you have a come a very long way in two months considering you were in love with this woman for 2 yrs!!! That's truly remarkable.

 

Well Tomcat..

 

I did actually say that this didnt happen overnight. What I was refering to by over a year, is that it was over a year from D-Day. Irrespective of my communications, my actions and how I related to the OW, I concider that from that moment on, it was a dying relationship.

 

Whats odd is that I just went back to my own posts from November 97. They seem to be written by a different person even though they dont seem so long ago. 3 months? Even then I remember my feelings being a far cry away from what they were 12 months ago.

 

In actual fact I wont pardon your ignorance Tomcat. I dont know what your story is and quite frankly dont have the energy to look it up; I dont know what bitterness drives your skepticism and I dont understand the reasoning that you think I would lie?

 

I wish you well too Smartgirl. All I can say in response to TomCats cynical reply is that from me to you I have given you an honest account of where I am at now. Some people do turn it around. Some people learn. I'm sure your husband is one of them.

[Triarge]

Ahhh TomCat..

 

TomCat, just curious, are you and your MM still together?

 

Now it makes sense.. Your an OW yourself.

 

Must make you sick when MM go back to their wifes, become happy and forget all about the OW.

[OpenBook]

Well Triarge, you gotta admit that your current stance sounds a little hokey, given the fact that you've gone back to the OW 4 times since D-Day.

[Triarge]

Unfortunately I cant change how it 'looks'; and only I know how it 'is'.

 

You can choose to take my word at face value or not. However, concidering my honesty and divulgence of all the bad stuff I've shared on here in the past, why is it so easy to assume I'm lying about the good things?

 

In one of my posts 3 months ago I was 90% sure I was on the right path. Is it so hard to believe it took 3 months to get to being 100% sure?

[Tomcat33]

OpenBookWell Triarge, you gotta admit that your current stance sounds a little hokey, given the fact that you've gone back to the OW 4 times since D-Day

 

 

That's what I'm saying!

 

 

For the purpose of this topic how do you cope with working with your Affair partner, I think it would have been far more realistic to note, "up until two months ago I was having serious doubts but now it's fine"

rather than it's taken me a year, to me that implies over the past year you have been in recovery, and that's not true because over the past year Triage was fully in the A. Recovery started in Dec really when he finally put his foot down and apparently told her no more.

 

Sorry but without pointing that out the info provided here is misleading.

 

Plus the other thing is it is too soon to tell, we'll see what happens when the novelty of the marriage being on good terms wears off and problems set in again, as they naturally do in rels. We'll see what it represents to have the A partner sitting 5 feet away.

 

Anyway I think it is a bad idea all around to trust a cheating spouse to work with their A partner having been involved with someone I worked with and know all to well how hard it was to work with someone you are head over heels for, he could not have worked with me after the break up there is no way, he barely had willpower to stay away from me via email and phonecalls let alone work together. He tells me that all the time. It's ridiculous to think it can be done and I think it is foolish to think that just because they say it is over it is. All it takes is one weak moment and BANG! Back to square one. It's just too convenient and making it rather easy for the cheater. I strongly advise against that no matter how many happy stories you hear, it's like walking on a minefield there may be people who walked through it alive that does not mean you will.

 

StillSame: the answer is no. We are friends and talk from time to time and he is now D, but we are not together nor do I forsee us getting back together. But I learn things now that there is no highly charged emotions between us and we can talk really openly about things.

[OpenBook]

You can choose to take my word at face value or not. However, concidering my honesty and divulgence of all the bad stuff I've shared on here in the past, why is it so easy to assume I'm lying about the good things?

 

Um... oh never mind. Hi Mrs. Triarge! Are YOU buying all this??

[StillSame]

StillSame: the answer is no. We are friends and talk from time to time and he is now D, but we are not together nor do I forsee us getting back together. But I learn things now that there is no highly charged emotions between us and we can talk really openly about things.

 

Are you surpised that it didn't work out since you were so in love?

 

Smartgirl, sorry for the temporary t/j.

[Tomcat33]

Are you surpised that it didn't work out since you were so in love?

 

Honestly? Yes and no. I dunnow....

 

 

Smartgirl, let me ask you this question. How did you found out about the affair? Whatever way that you found out, you can't use it anymore, can you? Because he already knew how you found out and if he does it again, he would go underground and ensure that you will not find out.

 

Are you with your H 24/7? As matter of fact, you're not with him at all for at least 8 hours a day during the work days, right? If they have a quick thing twice a week during lunch at his office, would you ever found out? What about twice a month at a nearby motel during work hours, would you find out if he lie and left no evidence? There is no trace of communication through email or cell because he has the opportunity to communicate with her in person every day, over 8 hours a day. If she is not over her and he, at one point disires her, she can get him hooked easily again.

 

The temptation is too high.

 

All I know is that trusting a person who has just betrayed you, to be so close to the OP day to day is putting too much trust on someone who does not deserve to be handed THAT kind of trust on a silver platter.

The way I see it is: where did blind trust get you the first time around?

You really have to ask yourself that.

 

The thing is a few months ago Triage claimed "I think I would respect my wife more if she actually did kick me out" Affair fog or no fog, these were the cheater's words so something in him made him say those words, not sure what magically could have changed in two months to make him respect her not only for not kicking him out but also for letting him keep his job next to the OW?

 

Ending an affair is an on-going uphill struggle Smartgirl and no matter what the WS will say to reassure you, you don't really know what they are truly thinking and feeling it's not easy to break away even though they do it. I am not trying to plant doubt in you I am just sharing what the experience is having been on the end of the OW and now even being just friends with my ex I refuse to see him in person because even after almost a year since we broke up the feelings are still faintly there, you don't just turn off your heart off just because you know someone is wrong for you, see?

 

The thing is that to your H, the OW didn't do anythying horrible to him, which is why he possibly feels sorry/guilt for her, she may have done something "horrible to you" in terms of what she respresents to you, but to him she was the woman he once felt for and had to walk away from because of his own priorities. Walking away from a relationship of any sort with

unresovled feelings is unhealthy and to on top of that add the idea that they have to maintain contact day to day for the MOST part of the day, let's face it your H spends more time at work than home during the week, we all do, is just too dangerous.

 

Speaking from my personal experience my ex would tell me he was done with me many many times. Then two or three months later he would change again, if there is one thing I have grown to understand by also comparing stories is that a cheater will flip flop a LOT and relapse if the temptation is staring him in the face, heck sometimes it is not even and they will relapse so imagine when it is THAT close .So unless it has been a good two to three years since the A it is hard to tell what the outcome of his emotions will be which is why I would find it extremely dangerous to leave a newly recovering clepto next to an open safebox filled with $$. As far as I am concerned a cheater is still in the danger zone in the first year post break up and having seen what I have seen and speaking as the OW there is now way I would trust my cheating spouse to be so close to the OP. NO WAY

 

Smartgirl I don't know your story but how long did your H's affair go on for? And how did it end? You may hear things that reassure you about how others handle things but you just don't really know where your own H's head is at so why tempt fait is how I see it, but perhaps you have a good reason to do so that I am just not understanding...?

Edited February 1, 2008 by Tomcat33

[smartgirl]

What Triarge is describing is much what I have witnessed with my H or what he has described. You don't, in fact, just cut off feelings for someone when you were, or thought you were, in love with them. It takes time and during that time, you are wrestling with a lot of emotions that cause you to move forward at an irregular pace.

 

I have been able to witness the general decline of their relationship, though it is too hard to go into here. I have been able to witness the general improvement in our relationship and in his general mental health.

 

My fear was that her presence still creates a level of distraction that was harmful to our relationship or to his feelings for me. I don't want to be in a relationship where a third party has even a small role. I'm just not wired that way.

 

I wanted to hear from another MM what my H has described as this messy, but steady fading of the kind of feelings lovers have and that they can in fact fade to the point that they are not taking up valuable room in your daily thoughts.

 

I understand that humans can't just shut a door on feelings. I don't expect from him more than I could likely give myself. I don't think Triarge has any reason to misrepresent his true feelings and I thank him for the positive support.

[smartgirl]

In addition.....

 

I agree that working together after an A is a disaster. It caused us horrible problems for at least a year and anxiety for the second. My H runs the company and he can't leave. He can't make her leave for obvious reasons. She knows that and I think she stays out of pure spite.

 

Tomcat - Working together after DOES cause problems. I don't think you will get any argument there. How well it gets managed is up to both of the people involved and she chose to be nasty about it. That is something she has to work out herself. I'm not going to lower myself to tell her H or otherwise try to retaliate. When you get in the mud with a pig it makes the pig happy and you get dirty.

[twice_shy]

So my question is -- is it possible to work that closely with someone you were very serious about (discussions about leaving spouses for each other but no actual action in that direction) and not still feel the kind of affection that could cause mental mischief?

 

In my opinion, no, it is not possible.

 

I think you're husband needs to look for another job.

[smartgirl]

Honestly? Yes and no. I dunnow....

 

 

 

 

The temptation is too high.

 

All I know is that trusting a person who has just betrayed you, to be so close to the OP day to day is putting too much trust on someone who does not deserve to be handed THAT kind of trust on a silver platter.

The way I see it is: where did blind trust get you the first time around?

You really have to ask yourself that.

 

The thing is a few months ago Triage claimed "I think I would respect my wife more if she actually did kick me out" Affair fog or no fog, these were the cheater's words so something in him made him say those words, not sure what magically could have changed in two months to make him respect her not only for not kicking him out but also for letting him keep his job next to the OW?

 

Ending an affair is an on-going uphill struggle Smartgirl and no matter what the WS will say to reassure you, you don't really know what they are truly thinking and feeling it's not easy to break away even though they do it. I am not trying to plant doubt in you I am just sharing what the experience is having been on the end of the OW and now even being just friends with my ex I refuse to see him in person because even after almost a year since we broke up the feelings are still faintly there, you don't just turn off your heart off just because you know someone is wrong for you, see?

 

The thing is that to your H, the OW didn't do anythying horrible to him, which is why he possibly feels sorry/guilt for her, she may have done something "horrible to you" in terms of what she respresents to you, but to him she was the woman he once felt for and had to walk away from because of his own priorities. Walking away from a relationship of any sort with

unresovled feelings is unhealthy and to on top of that add the idea that they have to maintain contact day to day for the MOST part of the day, let's face it your H spends more time at work than home during the week, we all do, is just too dangerous.

 

Speaking from my personal experience my ex would tell me he was done with me many many times. Then two or three months later he would change again, if there is one thing I have grown to understand by also comparing stories is that a cheater will flip flop a LOT and relapse if the temptation is staring him in the face, heck sometimes it is not even and they will relapse so imagine when it is THAT close .So unless it has been a good two to three years since the A it is hard to tell what the outcome of his emotions will be which is why I would find it extremely dangerous to leave a newly recovering clepto next to an open safebox filled with $$. As far as I am concerned a cheater is still in the danger zone in the first year post break up and having seen what I have seen and speaking as the OW there is now way I would trust my cheating spouse to be so close to the OP. NO WAY

 

Smartgirl I don't know your story but how long did your H's affair go on for? And how did it end? You may hear things that reassure you about how others handle things but you just don't really know where your own H's head is at so why tempt fait is how I see it, but perhaps you have a good reason to do so that I am just not understanding...?

 

Sorry Tomcat, I missed your question on my first pass. It went on for almost a year. They had actually "broken up" after about 8 months in that they stopped having sex and had determined that it wasn't going anywhere. But the level of phone calls and lunches didn't end until two months later when I found out. He said it was very hard trying to untangle.

 

How did I find out? In those last two months he became less vigilant and therefore not prepared with a cover story because he wasn't looking to keep it going anymore. I caught him in a relatively small lie that caused me to look at phone records and credit card bills. There were signs from the beginning, but I was blind to them.

 

When I confronted him, he was deeply ashamed. I saw him sob for the first time in over 30 years of being together. He told me everything then with all the detail I wanted over the coming months. He agreed to stop the personal contact immediately and even though they worked together he did. As a result, she snapped out about two weeks later because she felt unfairly rejected and continued to confront him periodically for about 9 months -- sometimes being accusatory, sometimes seeking sympathy, sometimes being concilliatory. She really didn't stop until she found out I knew who she was and maybe became afraid that I would tell her H or something.

 

It has been almost two years since d-day. As I said, the first 7-9 months were the most difficult. It is just so hard knowing they work together everyday and that I have to see her periodically at social events. We would both be able to cope better and really put this behind us if she wasn't in the picture. With his position and financial stake in the company, he can't walk away. She can, but won't. Due to a very difficult childhood, he is very accomplished at suppressing emotions and thoughts as a survival instinct. I'm not and so they take a much bigger toll on me and I don't especially suffer in silence.

 

But while he wanted to go as NC as he could, he felt a lot of responsibility and guilt and didn't want to be cruel. In doing so, he may have also been less clear about his need to stop contact as he should have. I think that only sent mixed messages and drug the whole thing out. There has never been the clear, bright-line ending that has allowed me to feel that his feelings are really, really over. That's what I'm seeking.

[jenniferc1114]

Smartgirl,

Whether or not your H & the OW can handle working together, it obviously still bothers you. That's expected & you have every right to have concerns. They will most likey never go away. Infact they shouldn't. Seeing how he can't leave, & she's refusing, why don't you pick up a few hours and work with them. Even if it's just for show, your presense may be what the OW needs to move on with her life & get the balls to leave.