Abbie Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Firstly I will start by saying I am a BS …. But I really need some advice from this board, as there are so many things I do not understand in my situation and I thought maybe someone here could help me. His affair started after the death of his dad in February 2007. In the time they were in their affair, they seen each other on average once a week for a few hours. OW told DP that she had never felt like this with anyone before and that she wanted to marry him. He said he fell in love with her too. I found out in August 07. He denied loving her, said he didn’t want to loose me and he would spend the rest of his life making it up to me. He gave me her phone number. I phoned her to say that I knew about the affair and asked her to please stay away from my boyfriend so we could sort out relationship out. Her reply was “tell him to go f*ck himself” she said she doesn’t want him full time anyway and that she certainly doesn’t want to look after his kids, and she hung up/ After a few days DP went to see OW and the affair was back on again. She told him that she would only continue if he left me. So he did. He moved out one night and went to her. Woke up the next day and told her he couldn’t do it and wanted to go home. She never cried, she never tried to stop him, she just told him that she thought “it was for the best”. Fast forward another couple of weeks, DP cant live without OW. OW tells DP to prove that he loves her by moving out - so moves out and rents his own flat. He takes his children with him (from previous marriage but they did live with us). OW tells DP he cant move in with her as she has 4 kids, he has 3 and her flat isn’t big enough. So DP starts looking for a house to rent for them all. Her, him and 7 kids. In this time, he comes home every couple of days telling me he loves me, but is in love with OW – but that he thinks OW is messing him about because she wont even let him visit her since he left me. She turns her phone off for days and then just says she has been busy. September 07 – DP rents a big house for them all, so they can now all be together. OW says she is moving in the following weekend. That weekend comes – OW doesn’t want to move in anymore. She loves DP but cant be with him. No explanation, no nothing. DP devastated. Comes back home with the children and says he is sorry. Its all over with OW.[/FONT] A week later, OW is angry he moved back home. Says she now wants him, so DP and kids move back out again. OW then says she isnt moving in with him. DP has ended it with her about a dozen times now. But everytime, she gets back in touch with him after a week or so saying how much she loves him and she cant live without him. DP gets his hopes up that they will now be together. She changes her mind, switches her phone off for days on end and doesn’t reply to his texts. They have physically seen each other twice since August. Once in September and once just after Christmas. He met her after Christmas and told her that this was her last chance. He couldn’t keep doing this anymore. She either commits to being with him, or she never contacts him again. She says she will think about it and ring him that night. She never rings. A week later, she texts him telling him she misses him again. A bit of background about her (if it helps). Single mum 26, 4 kids, 4 different fathers. Takes drugs, drinks a lot, often gets drunk in the day to the point her mum has to come and look after the kids. She states every relationship she has been in has been abusive (although some of her stories I don’t believe):- She had an abortion at 14 after she was raped She had another baby at 16 but doesn’t know who the father is (was a 3sum) Another baby with an abusive man who sexually abuses her eldest child – yet she doesn’t report it to the police, just simply ends the relationship. Another baby with another abusive man – this one threatens to kill her if she ever leaves him. She moves to another town but lives in fear of being found (but visits her old town all the time ???) Another baby with yet another man, this one beats up her and the children so she ends relationship She has now confessed she had been seeing someone else for the last couple of months (aswell as my ex) but says she doesn’t love him and is going to end the relationship. 2 days later she tells my ex that she has ended the relationship because shes just found out that he has been sexually abusing her children. Again, doesn’t report it to the police, or move, or do anything Now says she cant be with my ex – as she wants to be on her own with her children now and now bring anymore men into their lives …. For now EX – now wants to work things out with me, now its over with OW (another long story!) but at the moment I don’t believe its all over with OW because of past history. But I just need to try and figure out in my head why she has done all this Our counselor has told me that EX fell in love with OW as she was his escape from dealing with the death of his father. He has done everything he can to get her, so that he doesn’t have to deal with grief. He is obsessed with her and at that point, he would have done anything in this world to have her (again another long story – but might help to explain why im even thinking about getting back with him after all this!!). He has a long medical history of depression and although this is the first time he cheated on me ... he did cheat on his previous wife with another OW (who also dumped him once he moved out ?) He never went back to his wife though. Spent a couple of years on meds and a LOT of counselling. Am really sorry this is such a long post – but I just cant figure out whats going on. Why has she destroyed my family for someone she doesn’t want ? From reading these boards, most OW want their MM …… so why would someone do this ??. She has had every opportunity to have him, yet she doesn’t appear to want him – but she wont let him go either ?? Also - am sorry if me posting on this board upsets anyone. That isnt my intention - could just really do with some advice on it all. Edited January 30, 2008 by Abbie
bentnotbroken Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Dump him and run, don't walk. If he is willing to get mixed up with someone with a history of instability(not to mention potential diseases:eek:)why risk your life? Leave, now.
Author Abbie Posted January 30, 2008 Author Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks for your quick response. I know what your saying and I havent decided yet what I am doing to do about ex/DP. Her instability was what attracted him. "White knight syndrome". But .... thats not really what I need the help with. Im just trying to figure out the OW really and why she has done the things she has, which is why I wanted to ask on this board rather that the infidelity board. I thought maybe people from this board might be able to offer advice from their side, so to speak I cant move past that. I need to try and get some of it straight in my own head and understand it .... thats what im asking for help with really because it just doesnt make any sense !!
ElvenPriestess Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Holy my geeze! What a story! Wow! that really sucks. All of it. Ok, my first question, all the times he came back home with the kids, why did you take him back? Now, speaking of the kids, does he not see he is going to mess them up from this? They have no stability, as he's bouncing back and forth. He's selfish, doesn't put his children first, and needs more than just a therapist, the guy needs serious help. I still don't get why you would keep taking him back! Stand up for yourself, he uses you! Think about it, he leaves you when she gets mad he's living with you. He comes back when she says it's over. Surely you can see he uses you right? If she would move in with him, I doubt you'd ever see him again. Until the day she kicks him out again. When he needs you. Not wants you, not loves you, needs to utilize what you have. Why does this woman do this? I'd say she doesn't want to commit to something as big as moving in with your ex, but is jealous of you having him too. She's completely messed up, they both are, and even if you're not in the picture, them seeing each other is the most damaging to their children, unhealthy thing they could do. They will only make each other worse. What's not to understand? You're his crutch, when she won't have him. You're the second resort. Stop doing this to yourself. You don't need him, have more self respect than to keep letting him do this. He s***s on you and you offer him more. Be better to yourself! It's hard to see when you're in the middle of it, but trust me. You're wearing yourself down. Next time this guy asks you to take him back, put it to him how it is. Tell him no, and tell him why. Because you have more respect for yourself than that. And the fact that he's only asking out of desperation, only because she said "no." You say no to him, stop all contact, get him far out of your life. Let him see what he's done when he loses you and the crazy one. Be strong!
Author Abbie Posted January 30, 2008 Author Posted January 30, 2008 ok - He moved out for once night, so natually i had him back because i thought he had realised his mistake. I foolishly thought that it was all over then. When he came back for a week, i took him back into the house because ... he used to self harm and he turned up in tears, with his arms all cut open - so i took him back in because (1) he was in a state and i wouldnt turn a dog away in that state let alone someone i loved for so long and (2) because of the children Im not saying we are getting back together now, I dont know if I will have him back again or not. He isnt back living here. He is still in his own house. We are going to counselling (but have been in counselling for a while now). But ... It really is just the advice about OW that im looking for really. Regardless of whether i take ex back or not ..... i want to try and understand OW's behaviour so that I can move on.
Owl Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 The OW in your case is clearly unstable...that has nothing to do with being an OW...its got everything to do with being a psychotic, drug-taking drunk who's unable to take care of herself, let alone her family or anyone around her. Don't try to 'make sense' out of someone like this...simply put as much distance between her and you as you can. Again, I don't think her actions have much to do with being the OW...they've got far more to do with being an unstable, immature, and completely self-centered individual. She needs help...professional help. I doubt your BF is up to that task, but if he's going to do so, you need to remove yourself from the situation completely.
Author Abbie Posted January 30, 2008 Author Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks Owl. I think what i struggle to understand is ... she obviously was always unstable etc ..... but why tell someone they are the love of your life, you have never felt that way about anyone before, that you want to marry them .... if only they would like their partner. They leave partner and then she doesnt want him. Just like that. Complete sudden change.
marlena Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Her instability was what attracted him. I am truly sorry to say this but I think his instabilty attracts you even more. You need to do some very serious self-exploring into your own psyche and try to understand what is so dysfunctional within yourself that you would even consider to remain with a man like this. This is what I meant when I started my thread a few days ago. Some marriages need to end. They are destructive to all parties involved. Your children should not have to live though this hell that the two of you have made out of your lives. Do not double think this. Your children need your protection and you need to get over your addiction to this man. Edited January 30, 2008 by marlena spelling
Author Abbie Posted January 30, 2008 Author Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Thanks for your reply Marlena. I will try and answer your post. My ex/DP was not always like this. He has major depressions years ago. Way before i met him, he was then married to his now ex wife. After a couple of years of medication and weekly counselling he was back to the man he once was before depression. That is when I met him. We were together 5 years and his "mental health" was never a problem. We had a truly lovely life together and im not just saying that now because its over. We were honestly happy. Then his dad died. This is when he became someone I dont even know anymore. This is when the affair started. So thats why I have not YET walked away completely out of his life, because its not the person he once was. Am just not sure whether the old "him" still exsists anymore. Which is what I am working on in counselling. As for the children - His children are his own children from his previous marriage. They live with him. I only have 1 child, he lives with me. He knows nothing about any of this. He knows we are having problems but thats all. My son is perfectly well balanced and happy. Your children should not have to live though this hell that the two of you have made out of your lives. MY child is not living through any hell because life for him is normal. I dont cry in front of him, discuss this with him, or let it affect him in any way, shape or form. Am a little unsure what you mean by "live through this hell that the two of you have made ..." Im not responsible for his affair. I didnt create this mess!! Edited January 30, 2008 by Abbie
marlena Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Am a little unsure what you mean by "live through this hell that the two of you have made ..." No, you are not responsble for the affair. But you are responsible for allowing him to trample all over your lives at his own convenience. How many times can a person leave and then come back and then leave again? This hardly makes for a stable environment for the children. Whether it be your own child or his children is inconsequential. They are children and as you are their step-mother, you are to an extent, responsible for their well-being and happiness. Losing a parent is a devastating loss from which it is hard to recover. However, his grief does not excuse his erratic and irresponsible, to say the least, behaviour. Nor does his depression excuse what he is doing. People who are truly depressed are immobilized emotionally and sometimes physically and do not have the energy to expend on an on and off affair for so long. I understand to a point. You love him and you need him and you are afraid to be alone. But, to quote Dylan: How many times must a man turn his head And pretend that he just doesn't see?
klee Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 It really is just the advice about OW that im looking for really. Regardless of whether i take ex back or not ..... i want to try and understand OW's behaviour so that I can move on. I think you need to be looking at your own behavior in this situation. It is confusing to me why you are so hung up on why SHE did this. It is not all on her, it was your SO too. And you have a hand in it now too for allowing him to walk all over you by keeping you in a constant push-pull state. And IMHO, I don't think you can move on until you get this man out of your life, not when you "understand" his OW.
marlena Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 I think you need to be looking at your own behavior in this situation. It is confusing to me why you are so hung up on why SHE did this. It is not all on her, it was your SO too. And you have a hand in it now too for allowing him to walk all over you by keeping you in a constant push-pull state. And IMHO, I don't think you can move on until you get this man out of your life, not when you "understand" his OW. You are focusing on the wrong person. Understanding the OW's reasons or motives will not only not help you move on but it will, more than likely, make you obsess and by obsessing you will not only make yourself ill but retard your own personal journey towards independence and self-reliance. If you were to honest with yourself, then, I think that you might discover that the real reason you care about the OW's behaviour is a cover up for the jealousy and resentment you feel for her. And this is normal. But you shouldn't let it overwhelm you to the point that it distracts you from what is really happening in your life. Like the poster I quoted said, it is your behaviour that needs to be put under the microscope. What is it about your own character that will allow a man to treat you this way? Why are you enabling him by tolerating this back and forth, hot and cold situation? What is causing you to be so needy and dependent on someone who is clearly mistreating you and the children? These are the questions you need to address. Overcome your jealousy as soon as possible for it will poison you and misguide you. Some marriages are worth working for. Some are plainly not. Knowing the difference is wisdom.
OWoman Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 It really is just the advice about OW that im looking for really. Regardless of whether i take ex back or not ..... i want to try and understand OW's behaviour so that I can move on. Abbie, I think you've set yourself an impossible task there. As Owl said, her behaviour is not due to her being OW, it's due to her drugs, drink and other self-destructive tendencies. This woman is clearly unstable. She sounds like Britney Spears - is it Britney Spears? Anyway, not even Dr Phil would be able to understand her behaviour, though he may get a show or two out of it. I suspect the OW is completely out of control and feeling overwhelmed and at the mercy of all the cravings, needs, desires and demands placed on her by the outcomes of her bad choices in the past (drugs, drink, kids, men). Her on - off behaviour towards your x is probably her attempting to exert some kind of control over some aspect of her life amongst the chaos, as well as some kind of testing / manipulation to establish the bounds of his love for her. She's on autodestruct, and the only way he can sufficiently "prove his love" to her would be to join her in her mad dash to annihilation. And judging from his behaviour, he's up for it. Given the situation, I can't believe he has custody of his kids. God help them if he's the best parental option they have, poor things - his xW should put in an emergency custody application (she can't, surely, be worse...?) so that they have some stability in their lives. You should not feel compelled to take him back because of concerns for his kids.
becauseofyou Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 My goodness! What a messy situation. I'm so sorry you've been dragged through all this. I agree with the other posters here, you're concentrating on the wrong thing. Understanding the OW's motives won't really help you in the long run. She doesn't sound like the sort of person you need in your life. And neither does he I'm sorry to say. Try and focus on you and your son and forget about the OW. The fact this guy is self harming and in such a bad state is a concern though since he has custody of his kids. Does he have any other family members parents, ex wife etc who can take the children while he straightens out himself? He needs to take the time to be on his own, sort himself out and be able to look after himself before you two can even think of having a healthy relationship.
justice Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 It sounds like to me, you need to make him actually stick to and commit to one decision. He's putting your life on mixed signals and I imagine that's chaotic for you. Make him make up his mind and then stick to it, no matter if it's with you or her. You don't need this.
Gwyneth Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 WOW! I stopped reading half way because I felt like I was reading in circles. Huh, really--just let him go. He obviously does Not know his right from left. I can't imagine this is all a result of his father's death--bouncing back and forth from woman to woman, home to home? Is he For real??? He's a bit unstable, and I can just imagine this is driving you to insanity--and it should! You need to be the strong one here and say, "DP, listen, either it's me or her--enough with this going back and forth." Good luck!
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 You need to stop taking him back yourself. There is nothing to understand except, all of you have issue that needs to be worked out seperately. For him, their is some underlying issue of needing to fix a broken woman and for you it is he same thing. You are trying to fix him, when you are not capable. The OW has deep deep issues and he needs to let her go and get help so that he does not end up in another relationship like this one with the OW. You, need to get mentally healthy too. Cut him off until he has gotten help and can be a good person for you and a great dad for those kids. That is the sad part about your story. Those children are caught in the crossfire. They deserve better and you guys should work to give them better. If he doesn't want to stop seeing the OW, you need to let go. Get yourself some help and move on. The cycle is vicious and it hurts really bad. I hope this helps you. We are not here to judge but to support you. Firstly I will start by saying I am a BS …. But I really need some advice from this board, as there are so many things I do not understand in my situation and I thought maybe someone here could help me. His affair started after the death of his dad in February 2007. In the time they were in their affair, they seen each other on average once a week for a few hours. OW told DP that she had never felt like this with anyone before and that she wanted to marry him. He said he fell in love with her too. I found out in August 07. He denied loving her, said he didn’t want to loose me and he would spend the rest of his life making it up to me. He gave me her phone number. I phoned her to say that I knew about the affair and asked her to please stay away from my boyfriend so we could sort out relationship out. Her reply was “tell him to go f*ck himself” she said she doesn’t want him full time anyway and that she certainly doesn’t want to look after his kids, and she hung up/ After a few days DP went to see OW and the affair was back on again. She told him that she would only continue if he left me. So he did. He moved out one night and went to her. Woke up the next day and told her he couldn’t do it and wanted to go home. She never cried, she never tried to stop him, she just told him that she thought “it was for the best”. Fast forward another couple of weeks, DP cant live without OW. OW tells DP to prove that he loves her by moving out - so moves out and rents his own flat. He takes his children with him (from previous marriage but they did live with us). OW tells DP he cant move in with her as she has 4 kids, he has 3 and her flat isn’t big enough. So DP starts looking for a house to rent for them all. Her, him and 7 kids. In this time, he comes home every couple of days telling me he loves me, but is in love with OW – but that he thinks OW is messing him about because she wont even let him visit her since he left me. She turns her phone off for days and then just says she has been busy. September 07 – DP rents a big house for them all, so they can now all be together. OW says she is moving in the following weekend. That weekend comes – OW doesn’t want to move in anymore. She loves DP but cant be with him. No explanation, no nothing. DP devastated. Comes back home with the children and says he is sorry. Its all over with OW.[/FONT] A week later, OW is angry he moved back home. Says she now wants him, so DP and kids move back out again. OW then says she isnt moving in with him. DP has ended it with her about a dozen times now. But everytime, she gets back in touch with him after a week or so saying how much she loves him and she cant live without him. DP gets his hopes up that they will now be together. She changes her mind, switches her phone off for days on end and doesn’t reply to his texts. They have physically seen each other twice since August. Once in September and once just after Christmas. He met her after Christmas and told her that this was her last chance. He couldn’t keep doing this anymore. She either commits to being with him, or she never contacts him again. She says she will think about it and ring him that night. She never rings. A week later, she texts him telling him she misses him again. A bit of background about her (if it helps). Single mum 26, 4 kids, 4 different fathers. Takes drugs, drinks a lot, often gets drunk in the day to the point her mum has to come and look after the kids. She states every relationship she has been in has been abusive (although some of her stories I don’t believe):- She had an abortion at 14 after she was raped She had another baby at 16 but doesn’t know who the father is (was a 3sum) Another baby with an abusive man who sexually abuses her eldest child – yet she doesn’t report it to the police, just simply ends the relationship. Another baby with another abusive man – this one threatens to kill her if she ever leaves him. She moves to another town but lives in fear of being found (but visits her old town all the time ???) Another baby with yet another man, this one beats up her and the children so she ends relationship She has now confessed she had been seeing someone else for the last couple of months (aswell as my ex) but says she doesn’t love him and is going to end the relationship. 2 days later she tells my ex that she has ended the relationship because shes just found out that he has been sexually abusing her children. Again, doesn’t report it to the police, or move, or do anything Now says she cant be with my ex – as she wants to be on her own with her children now and now bring anymore men into their lives …. For now EX – now wants to work things out with me, now its over with OW (another long story!) but at the moment I don’t believe its all over with OW because of past history. But I just need to try and figure out in my head why she has done all this Our counselor has told me that EX fell in love with OW as she was his escape from dealing with the death of his father. He has done everything he can to get her, so that he doesn’t have to deal with grief. He is obsessed with her and at that point, he would have done anything in this world to have her (again another long story – but might help to explain why im even thinking about getting back with him after all this!!). He has a long medical history of depression and although this is the first time he cheated on me ... he did cheat on his previous wife with another OW (who also dumped him once he moved out ?) He never went back to his wife though. Spent a couple of years on meds and a LOT of counselling. Am really sorry this is such a long post – but I just cant figure out whats going on. Why has she destroyed my family for someone she doesn’t want ? From reading these boards, most OW want their MM …… so why would someone do this ??. She has had every opportunity to have him, yet she doesn’t appear to want him – but she wont let him go either ?? Also - am sorry if me posting on this board upsets anyone. That isnt my intention - could just really do with some advice on it all.
PLAYBRAT Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 Everyone here has already said it best. Put your foot down and stop letting this man's craziness affect your life. The OW has issues beyond ANYTHING DP can help. Kick this man out of your life...he's toxic to you and your well being. Stop worrying about the "why's" with the OW...just be glad to be rid of the insanity...and grateful that you DON'T have to deal with it.
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