Chrome Barracuda Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Then what? C'mon CB... you know the man is always wrong! Doesnt matter the situation or the facts! I know and that's the problem, that's what I was trying to point out to mz pixie but then again she thinks men are at fault for everything. The man could be hung better than lex steele, money like bill gates, got the hottest cadillac and be a sweetheart in the bedroom. And as usual a woman will find the most insignificant flaw for her to pick at, to open up. To rend asunder.
Zolie Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 You know how F-ing stupid that is that single OW date married men because they dont want serious relationships??? WTF? If that's the case stay single and mess with single men only. Tell him it's just for the sex and attention! Why mess with a MM if you just like the idea of taking something that isnt yours'. Women are competitive with each other and it doesnt matter who they hurt in the long run. I'm noit trying to generalize but that statement sounded stupid as hell. Single OW date MM because they dont want serious relationsships??? HUH???? Why not just date a man who's single and ask him for just sex???? LOL, you're a real charmer, aren't you? Let's try this out - don't kill the messenger, ok? Don't state that you think a person's statement is stupid as hell, when all they are doing is relaying information. You may think the action is stupid as hell, but my saying it is not stupid - I was simply relaying what I have heard over the years. Plus, I didn't say I advocated that kind of lifestyle.
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 LOL, you're a real charmer, aren't you? Let's try this out - don't kill the messenger, ok? Don't state that you think a person's statement is stupid as hell, when all they are doing is relaying information. You may think the action is stupid as hell, but my saying it is not stupid - I was simply relaying what I have heard over the years. Plus, I didn't say I advocated that kind of lifestyle. Nah, I wasnt going hard at you I knew what you was referring to I was just venting about it, dont take what I said as a personal afront to you zollie. I know what you meant by what you said, shoot I seen an episode of oprah where this OW said the same thing, I just wanted to smack her dumbass.
Zolie Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I know what you meant by what you said, shoot I seen an episode of oprah where this OW said the same thing, I just wanted to smack her dumbass. LOL, I saw that same episode of Oprah, and was actually thinking of that when I posted. I remember thinking how foolish the woman was - not because of her chosen lifestyle, and her rationale behind it, but because she was foolish enough to admit it on national television! I'll bet she has no women friends who are married, that's for sure!
Scrivdog Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I don't get what's so complicated. The wife graciously admits she has no intention of being his sexual partner anymore and agrees to let him see others. It may not be the ideal situation for him - given that he's going to have access to a very small population of women who would agree to his lifestyle. On the other hand it's really the only way for him to stay emotionally healthy while still fulfilling his obligation to his kids. Maybe he doesn't want to just have visitation rights. I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the "just get divorced" crowd when a guy has children.
LifesontheUp Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the "just get divorced" crowd when a guy has children. Yeah because you are willing to cheat on your wife and don't care how your children will feel when they ALL find out about what you've been up to. To hell with the kids feelings just so dad can get his "fun".........to me that is selfish and idiotic. Desperate HH - is your wife also having an affair?..........it makes me wonder.
Mustang Sally Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the "just get divorced" crowd when a guy has children. You know what? I'm a gonna take issue with you on this. It's funny to me that you and I can't seem to agree, seeing as how we happen to have a lot of common ground in our respective situations....but oh well. I guess that probably says a lot about you and me. You are allowing yourself to cop out with this (in my opinion) baloney attitude of "A guys got to stay married for the sake of his kids and get his lemon squeezed on the side when his wife is too messed up in the head to squeeze it for him" business. A guy doesn't HAVE to do anything. Custody certainly can (and does) work both ways, and certainly can be done in a fair and equitable manner - especially, I would think, when the wife is so "graciously" agreeing to the husbands infidelity (). Why do you insist this is never the case? Is it good for kids to grow up and eventually find out that their parents' front of "we're a happily married couple" is all a lie? That mom was a frigid bitch and dad was a pathetic loser who needed to seek tail on the side? Do you really believe that the kids never figure out the score? Ask some people who grew up with cheating parents and see what they have to say about it. I'm sure there are some around here on LS...somewhere.... What you propose, Scrivdog, is NOT the only - or necessarily the best - answer, here.
Cobra_X30 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I don't get what's so complicated. The wife graciously admits she has no intention of being his sexual partner anymore and agrees to let him see others. I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the "just get divorced" crowd when a guy has children. You realize that his wife is bluffing right? You should know by now that what a woman says and what she means are often not the same thing. Also, are you trying to imply that divorced fathers are not as good or effective? Or are you trying to say that some guys cherish fighting with their wives in front of the kids more than playing with them in the park?
Mustang Sally Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Thanks for making those points, Cobra. You are spot on, IMO, on all counts. I really wonder if a lot of times this "I have to stay married for the sake of the kids" business is an attempt to put an ostensibly "selfless" spin on the "noble" approach of toughing it out with an insufferable spouse so that "the dear children will benefit in the long run" when in reality, there's probably a LOT of "I don't want to have a financial settlement that changes my way of living" or suffer the social consequences of a failed marriage, etc.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I'm always amazed at the idiocy of the "just get divorced" crowd when a guy has children. I dunno about that Scriv. My father and his second wife were cheating on each other left and right and my brother and I knew about it. We heard it from the kids at school - the sons and daughters of the adults who knew about their f*cking around and overheard it in the snarky giggles, whispers and innuendos that parents somehow think kids don't pick up on. I can still remember one guy coming up to me in school and asking if he could have "next" on my stepmother. I hated her, but I hated it more that I had to go through that shame and humiliation that my parents put us through all for the sake of "staying together for the kids". I was so relived when they split up, damn was I happy. Sometimes divorce is better. Particularly when kids are saddled with philandering parents.
Author Desperate HH Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 Yeah because you are willing to cheat on your wife and don't care how your children will feel when they ALL find out about what you've been up to. To hell with the kids feelings just so dad can get his "fun".........to me that is selfish and idiotic. If you think it's about "fun", you really don't get it. It's about denial of basic needs, abandonment, emotional abuse. And weighing the certainty of emotional upheaval for the children, changes to their social situation; disintegration of much of their world, - all that comes with divorce - Vs. The possibility that the children find out, the (less likely) prospect that they will suffer socially as a result... Desperate HH - is your wife also having an affair?..........it makes me wonder. I don't know. She says no, and I go back and forth between taking her word and not. She has exhibited many of the "classic signs" for a number of years, along with some very suspicious specific incidents. Right now I think it's about a 50% chance she is/was in a physical affair, and 90% for an emotional affair. She has brought up a temporary separation, and we agreed to it, and generally avoid each other, but she didn't leave <shrug>. I'm not going anywhere; I am the primary caregiver. My position has always been that I want our marriage to continue, we have built a life together that is complete in many ways. But emotional and physical intimacy is a non-negotiable requirement for me. DHH
Scrivdog Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) Divorce is so damn common that people seem to think it's ok since everybody else is doing it. But I've seen the effects of divorce more than once in the friends that my dear wife has. These are women in their 40's who suddenly realize that being single does not mean they have guys going after them like they did back when they were in their 20's dating their ex-hubby. The operate under the mistaken assumption that because the toothless gas station guy hits on them that they're still "hot". After a few months of the single life, they realize nobody gives a sh*t about what they used to look like 20 years and 30 pounds ago - and so they hit bars and then the internet trying to find their new "soulmate" only to be ignored or seen as a temporary spunk receptacle. They realize now that "Sex in the City" really is just fiction. Then, as they ponder the reality that they may well find themselves alone, herding cats rather than with the man of their dreams, they start to latch on the first schleb who'll go out on a second date with them. They introduce them to the kids after dating for 3 weeks before the guy dumps them after her check for the money she loaned him clears. Then the kids get introduced to a series of other losers time after time until one just shudders when thinking about what designs these guys may have on your young kids. I've seen first hand what kind of guys some of these women bring home. I shudder to think that my kids would be sleeping under the same roof with these losers. You wonder if any of them got ideas from watching James Mason in "Lolita". If I knew I could get primary custody of the kids - I'd divorce my wife tomorrow. But the chances of that are slim and as such I do feel duty-bound to protect them. That as well as the fact that I happen to enjoy seeing my kids every day. We're as close as can be and I do sincerely believe that they need me there at home whether or not that makes it easier meet another woman. And if DesperateHH's wife wants to play the "Go ahead and get a mistress" game then by all means he should. She should alsop consider herself lucky that she gets a free ride like this. She gets all the social and economic benefits of being a wife while having the responsibilities and obligations of a roommate. It sucks for him, because it's be tough to really be able to devleop a true, normal relationship this way - but at least he's willing to go that route rather than seeking to abandon the family. You do what you want - I give the man kudos. Edited January 31, 2008 by Scrivdog
Author Desperate HH Posted February 1, 2008 Author Posted February 1, 2008 You do what you want - I give the man kudos.Aww, Scrivdog - you're making me feel all warm and fuzzy... DHH
Chrome Barracuda Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Damn! S,dog went hard at the board!!!! lol. But I kinda of agree. but my thing is to fully seperate with papers in hands amicably and then start going out! not while your married. You feel me?
Author Desperate HH Posted February 2, 2008 Author Posted February 2, 2008 my thing is to fully seperate with papers in hands amicably and then start going out! not while your married. You feel me? That's YOUR thing. In our counseling session the other day, DW made it clear she did NOT want to talk about affairs, etc. And neither of us wants to end the marriage. She has suggested separation, but has done nothing toward leaving the house. (Of course she has been sleeping in a different room for some time - she doesn't like that I make advances in the night...) DHH
Woggle Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Scrivdog is 100% right. Women really do not have an idea where the men are coming from on this. They don't live in a society that says mothers are optional extraz at best and they don't live in a society that calls men brave and independent for raising mothers kids so they don't know why a man wants to stay in the home with his children so he can raise them as a father should. Believe it or not men do care about their children and many shudder at the thought of not seeing them grow up and being told by a judge when, where and how we should raise them. The OP has tried everything in his power to create intamicy with his wife and it has failed so what is he supposed to do? Is he supposed to just go celibate because MS Frigid says so? He is not cheating because he is being perfectly honest about getting it elsewhere.
Politico Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 BS's never like to admit that they are part of the problem... This one did. I have always accepted and acknowledged my fault in the end of the marriage. The flip side of the coin is that the BS was also at fault but has never admitted it and never will. It has a lot to do with being narcissistic.
OpenBook Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Just don't dare suggest to him that he is trapped in his M. He'll rip you a new one.
OWoman Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Divorce is so damn common that people seem to think it's ok since everybody else is doing it. But I've seen the effects of divorce more than once in the friends that my dear wife has. These are women in their 40's who suddenly realize that being single does not mean they have guys going after them like they did back when they were in their 20's dating their ex-hubby. The operate under the mistaken assumption that because the toothless gas station guy hits on them that they're still "hot". You ought to get out more, Scrivdog. There are some pretty hot women out there in their 40s, looking far better and feeling far more confident and with far less hang-ups than they had in their 20s. I can't comment on your wife of her friends, but the picture you paint is not pretty. Why do you hang with bottom feeders like that when there are so many really top notch women out there? Is that really all you think you're worth?
OWoman Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Scrivdog is 100% right. Women really do not have an idea where the men are coming from on this. They don't live in a society that says mothers are optional extraz at best and they don't live in a society that calls men brave and independent for raising mothers kids so they don't know why a man wants to stay in the home with his children so he can raise them as a father should. Believe it or not men do care about their children and many shudder at the thought of not seeing them grow up and being told by a judge when, where and how we should raise them. Woggle I don't know how things work in American divorce courts, but in my country it's very common for men to get custody of the kids IF THEY'RE THE BETTER PARENT and joint custody if that's what's best for the kids. Among my own friends whose divorces I've lived through recently, three (guys) have gotten custody - one being sole custody and guardianship, and the right to determine any access his xW has to the kids AS HE DEEMS TO BE IN THEIR BEST INTEREST - and the rest (another 5 or 6) joint custody. I don't know any women friends who've gotten sole custody (aside from myself) - all have joint custody with their xHs, and very amicable custody arrangements mediated by the children's advocate. The only grounds on which a man would lose custody of his kids here, or would have access determined by someone else, would be if he was a harmful and negative presence in his kids' lives - a violent criminal, a history of putting the kids at risk, or having such severe mental health or substance abuse problems that he could not be fairly deemed "in his right mind". Perhaps things are less progressive there, I don't know, but few judges consider the gender of the parent in making custody awards in this day and age.
Scrivdog Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 You ought to get out more, Scrivdog. There are some pretty hot women out there in their 40s, looking far better and feeling far more confident and with far less hang-ups than they had in their 20s. I can't comment on your wife of her friends, but the picture you paint is not pretty. Why do you hang with bottom feeders like that when there are so many really top notch women out there? Is that really all you think you're worth? I don't "hang" with them. They're my wife's friends. It just seems rather coincidental than none - not one of them has managed to keep from panicking once they face the reality of their situation.
TMCM Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 A lot of women seem to brush off many men's fears about losing the right to see their kids on a daily basis after a divorce. Keep in mind that women are awarded primary custody of the children 85% of the time due to the fact that they are, by a large margin, the primary caregivers. But even when the husband is the primary caregiver, he still faces an uphill battle to receive primary custody of the kids because of the female friendly bias in the family court system. So please ladies, a little more empathy for us guys who truly love and care for our children. Still having an affair with your spouse's tacit approval is a sad, painful and shameful way to get your needs met and it is a band-aid at best. It disrespects EVERYBODY because it turns people into objects and usually ends bad for all parties involved. Even if your divorce were to be finalized tomorrow, you have to remember that very few women will want to be nothing more than your 'fu*k buddy' and if you were to find such a woman then you'd better make sure that she's not sleeping around with other men otherwise you'd be exposing yourself to a deadly STD which can jeopardize your wellbeing and that of your children's who depend on you emotionally and financially. By all means do develop TRUE friendships with women but please reconsider the affair. Also try to develop a civil and respectful relationship with your potential STBXW so that even if a divorce becomes a reality, the damage to everybody will be minimal at best. Good luck.
OWoman Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 A lot of women seem to brush off many men's fears about losing the right to see their kids on a daily basis after a divorce. Keep in mind that women are awarded primary custody of the children 85% of the time due to the fact that they are, by a large margin, the primary caregivers. But even when the husband is the primary caregiver, he still faces an uphill battle to receive primary custody of the kids because of the female friendly bias in the family court system. So please ladies, a little more empathy for us guys who truly love and care for our children. Wow your country's legal system certainly is backward! That would never go down, here. That's based on such outmoded and sexist stereotyping! I'm surprised men AND women aren't fighting tooth and nail to get it changed - never mind children's rights activists, whose concerns are for the best interests of the children IRRESPECTIVE OF THE GENDER of the custodial parent! Wow, that's seriously like a trip back to the middle ages!
Scrivdog Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Wow your country's legal system certainly is backward! That would never go down, here. That's based on such outmoded and sexist stereotyping! I'm surprised men AND women aren't fighting tooth and nail to get it changed - never mind children's rights activists, whose concerns are for the best interests of the children IRRESPECTIVE OF THE GENDER of the custodial parent! Wow, that's seriously like a trip back to the middle ages! I don't know what country you're from, but it would take the wife to be a proven crackhead for her to get anything less than full custody in the U.S.
TMCM Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 I don't know what country you're from, but it would take the wife to be a proven crackhead for her to get anything less than full custody in the U.S. So very true.
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