Update and more adv?

[heartoutside]

I'll spare you the background story, but they are in the links below:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t131296/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t129982/

 

But basically after about 6 months apart and NC and her "seeing" some other guy for about a month (the last month). She basically contacted me all the time during the breakup with random texts. Then one day about a week or so before thanksgiving she called me and left a VM saying she wanted to talk. I didn't call her back until a few days later and got her VM. She called back again and left a super sad VM while I was at the airport going out of town for thanksgiving.

 

I get back and about a week later I get an email from her; Subject: It's me....Please read.

 

Here's the email

 

Hi Heart,

 

It's been awhile since we've talked. Actually it's been a long time. I feel there is so much miscommunication going on between the two of us. I really wish that we could've spoken after the Halloween party. There was so much I wanted to tell you and you didn't give me a chance. I really thought it would have made a big impact on our "relationship". I feel like the time has passed and it might not matter anymore. I think about you probably everyday, actually I do think about you everyday. I cry a lot now days. Every song you've ever played is on some commercial, tv show or my roomate's ipod. I feel like I can't escape this prison of sadness that we both created.

 

Even more so I feel like you've taken everyone from me. You were the person who never wanted to hang out with these people or you fussed about hanging out with them and all of a sudden they're you're best friends. I know that us being apart really really sucks. We were great. We had fun when we could. You definitely have grown into this amazing guy who loved and cared for me. You weren't like that in the beginning. You changed into the almost perfect boyfriend. It was really scary for me. I felt like this was it. We were a couple who sat in different rooms, ate together without saying a word and went into separate rooms again. When it came down to it, we were the perfect couple in front of our friends.

 

Heart I've wanted to tell you so much, but when I see you I tear up and can't say a word. It hurts that you want nothing to do with me, you ignore me, and when we're in the same room, you can't even look at me. I can't be comfortable around you anymore. I've been getting panic attacks when I know you're coming or when I'm thinking about you. I know I should see someone about this, but what do you think this mean? I can't explain it.

 

 

Well, Heart I hope everything will go as planned for you. I hope your dreams are met and your happiness will strive amazing heights. I honestly wish nothing bad onto you. You're an amazing person and I'm sure you know that already. I hope one day you will talk to me again. I hope one day we can be what I wanted us to be. I know that might not ever ever happen but, I can think about it and now you know about it.

 

 

So after that we started talking again. We went out one night for a beer, and had an amazing night. She was her self and I was myself. It was all still there. We went to a late night diner and had some pie and coffee, she was flirting with me the whole time...kicking my leg and foot and such. Taping my arm and holding my hand. I didn't do anything because she was still "Seeing" this other guy.

 

I then take her home and just drop her off....I wanted to kiss her but again she was seeing this guy...

 

We hang out again, but and she tells me that shes going to have a talk with this guy. Basically break up with him. She does, about a week or so before xmas. I head out of town for a few days and while I'm gone she sends me a text asking me if I want to spend xmas with her. I say sure and then I call her to let her know that I want to spend xmas with her.

 

I get back and we hang out again, only this time we can't keep our hands off each other....we don't sleep together but she spends the night.

 

We do sleep together a few nights later..

 

Basically we get back together for about 2 weeks and she tells me everything I've been waiting to hear. That she regreted ever leaving, that when ever this other guy would come and hang out she would start crying about me. That there was nothing wrong with our relationship that we couldn't fix. She sent me a text one night saying that she was happy that we were together, happy that we were working things out and happy to be with me.

 

Then we spend new years together. It turns into a mess. We go to our friends private party and she's not there yet so we go to another bar across the street and wait for her. While we're there my ex starts feeling ill. So when our friend shows up with say and tell her we've got to head back because my ex isn't feeling well. We head back and celebrate new years in the cab.

 

The next day I kind of act like an ass...not mean or anything, just kind of distant.

 

She later calls me out on it.....

 

That weekend says we need to talk. She asks me to come over, but I say we can just talk on the phone. So we talk, and she basically says that she's a real mess right now, that her life has never been so unorganized and stressed out. That she's not happy with her self kind of thing. We both end up crying on the phone and not wanting to hang up. There's basically just 10 or 15mins of us on the phone silent.

 

So I back off a little...I always said that before we got back together that she should see someone, and I didn't listen to that, I just kind of jumped right back in.

 

A week later we hang out again at my friends bowling b-day party. She's wearing the necklace I bought her 2 years ago and the perfume I bought her last xmas. There's some flirty stuff going on, and it feels like we are a couple again. We give our friends a ride home, and then I take her home....I pull up to her place and I'm just expect to say goodnight and leave it at that. But she leans over to either give me a kiss on the cheek or on the lips....so I give her a peck on the lips and say, sorry, I hope that was ok. She says maybe in her cute little voice thing she does and then says goodnight...

 

We hang out again the next night at my buddies bar and the whole time she's kind of flirty again. She's tap'n my arm and my hand, kicking my shoes and the pulls me closer to her so I'm sitting next to her...Then she says it again, we need to talk....

 

So in the car ride home we talk.....she basically tells me that she thinks I would be happier with someone else, that she doesn't want me not dating someone right now because I'm waiting for her. I told her that I'm not even ready to date anyone else right now and I probably wont' be for a long time. Basically we just have another conversation where she comes up with 3 totally new reasons (so far she's never had one real reason, it's always changed).

 

So that was about 2 weeks ago. We've been texting here and there lightly, but nothing to major. I've just kind of backed off and let her have her space and let school start back for her so she can get back in the swing of things.....

 

Right now she's living in an apartment where her roommate just leaves a mess where ever she goes, and wastes food and lives a totally opposite life of what my ex is used to. My ex has been talking about moving into our friends place which is about 10 blks from here and is a much better living situation.

 

I'm sure I've left some major details out, but I just want to get some opinions and let people out there know what's going on....

 

Oh, let me add that when we were back together, other then telling me every day that she was happy that we were back together, she also told me that there isn't anyone else she would ever want to date....and it was the biggest mistake of her life leaving (also her mother left her when she was 4 and her father is a recovering drug addict and she has raised herself since she was 15. I was probably the most stable thing she's ever had in her life!).

 

so do i keep giving her space, hang out with her, call or text...etc etc...so far I've just kept my distance. When I saw her this weekend at work and said hi she could barely look me in the face....and will leave will out saying bye...

 

That's all for now.....

Edited January 29, 2008 by heartoutside

[heartoutside]

bump de bump

[malaclypse]

Let her choose:

 

Either NC again, or she should decide to be with you for real. Everything else will just make you feel bad.

[ElvenPriestess]

Well, you're going in a non-ending cycle with her. Break up, she feels bad, get back together, or at least acting like it, she finds excuses to end it, she feels bad about it, whole thing starts all over again.

 

Just realize that you're in this terrible cycle. And if you keep going with this as is, meaning you hang out with her again, or have ANY contact, it will go right back where it was.

 

She needs to get help for her issues, see a therapist and deal with it. Ok, that sucks that she has these abandonment issues from child hood. But that's life, she has to learn to deal with it and NOT let it control her present relationships. She's too unstable to be in ANY relationship.

 

Do not have contact until she gets help and changes herself. This is not healthy.

[heartoutside]

SO the other night I went to a welcome back party for mutual friend of ours and my ex was there. We talked a little before our friend showed up. And then we just sat across form each other and didn't really say a word to each other. At one point I got kind of down, don't know why and I wasn't feel so good. My ex went outside for a cig and while she was outside sent me a text "what's wrong?" I didn't reply. Later that night she goes out again for a cig comes back in and hangs her coat on my the back of my chair. Everyone else has hung their coats on two other chairs or put them in the booth, but she for some reason hangs her coat on my chair. She then asks me how I'm doing? I tell her I'm ok, and I ask her the same and she says she's ok. Then later in the night I have to leave so I say goodbye to everyone and I come up to my ex and I tap her on the arm and say I've got to go and she gives me a hug and then starts talking to me about her roommates new dog who she hates because her roommate can barely take care of herself and now my ex's cat won't come out of her bedroom. She tells me that I should come over sometime and see the dog. Which doesn't make any sense if she doesn't like the dog. I don't know this all seems kind of odd...

[amaysngrace]

When she put her coat on your chair she was claiming you.

 

She's got issues. She wants the appearance of having a relationship with you but isn't willing to do what's required of her to actually maintain the relationship.

 

Expect more of the same unless she goes to get help.

[heartoutside]

That's funny, you are the 2nd person to say that she was claiming me or marking her "territory." So I take it I should just leave her be for now? Even though she asked me come over?

[CalamitousJane]

Oh heart,

 

The problem is that she has strong feelings for you and you feel it,. And she shows it in all kinds of backwards and sideways ways.

 

And I know you feel the same way about her.

 

Problem is, she's incapable of having a steady, comfortable, normal relationship with you, or with anyone. I highly doubt that you can change this fact by making the right decision about meeting her roommate's dog. There is no right decision in this case. She needs a lot of therapy and/or an epiphany.

 

It sucks because it doesn't make any sense, it's crazy and it hurts like hell. I know.

Edited February 5, 2008 by CalamitousJane

[heartoutside]

It doesn't hurt as much as it did 6 or 7 months ago, but its frustrating and confusing that's for sure. I'm sure going over to see her roommate's dog won't change anything. But right now I don't know what to do....do I walk away again, do I just keep in "touch," do we hang out every so often?

 

But there are a few things that have been bug'n me that I can't really figure out. When she and I got back together last month we talked about "us." During our talk she told me that she was a fool for leaving and that there was no reason to leave. That there is no one else she would rather be dating or wanted to date. But she didn't feel comfortable being labeled as bf and gf right now. We then kind of just jumped right back into the relationship. And what bugs me is maybe she was trying to do the right thing and take things slow. When we first started dating, we didn't spend every day together or talk to each other every day, and I think I should have treated it like that and i didn't...

 

I also told her that I wanted her to talk to someone, but she's worried about the cost (she's in college supporting herself and works a part time job 20hours a week). I know her school offers some free service, but the people there aren't the best. And most importantly I guess is that she has to be willing to get help.

 

I just don't know what I should do....ie walk away, hang out with her, or just keep in touch; LC...

[CalamitousJane]

Heart, I don't know either.

 

My choice right now is to walk away, but it took a long time to be able to commit to that.

 

I miss him terribly, but I NEED normalcy, stability and commitment.

 

I know he misses me too. Sometimes I feel like I'm being cruel by being so firm about not talking. Maybe losing his connection with me will hurt enough to make him think, but I can't count on that.

 

I don't think most people change very much unless they go through some pain. I know that's been true for me.

 

You can't make her say yes to a real, comfortable, settled relationship, but you have the choice to say no to emotional turmoil.

 

I would cut her off, sooner rather than later. It has to happen sometime. It's better, cleaner and more noble to do it now, before you find someone new.

[CalamitousJane]

But she didn't feel comfortable being labeled as bf and gf right now. We then kind of just jumped right back into the relationship. And what bugs me is maybe she was trying to do the right thing and take things slow.

 

I think you might have mistaken fear and doubt for "the right thing".

[heartoutside]

I have no doubt there was fear, there was fear for both of us....we talked about that. But what I meant by that, was maybe she wanted things to go slow, just like when we were first dating, or like anyone first starts dating...you take things slow. Go out to dinner one night.....maybe talk a few days later. YOu know, basically you don't make the person the center of your world. Which is was starting to happen, we both jumped the gun....

[CalamitousJane]

I think it makes sense to take it very, very slowly. That's why some time in real NC makes sense too. I imagine it could be like hitting "reset". You could almost come back together and get to know each other again as if it were the first time, but with the benefits of knowing where the hotspots might be between you, and treading very carefully when you get near them. I think if you have two people willing and able to do this, it might work.

 

I suspect you are quite capable of doing this, but from what you say I doubt she is right now. It's going to be tough for you to hold a steady course while she has one foot on the brakes and the other on the accelerator.

 

You are going to need to be very calm and skillful.

 

Good luck to you, and keep us posted!

[upsetnhurt]

Heart,

 

I think you enjoy the up and down drama of this friendship with the ex too, thus you stay involved. You seem like a smart guy, yet a smart guy does not put up with the crap that you have for over six months. You have tremendously low self esteem and seemingly don't think you deserve better or just don't think you can find it elsewhere. What's the deal? Is this the woman of your dreams, a person who can't commit and make you feel like a priority? What exactly do you want from her as she has shown you her best and apparently her best keeps you posting on here.

[heartoutside]

upsetnhurt-

 

Thank you for the kind words. I'm not sure why you sound so jaded or bitter in every reply you've given me in my threads, but man back off.....I mean you posted some 5 or 6 times in my threads and have never had a positive thing to say...

Edited February 6, 2008 by heartoutside

[StillSame]

Have you ever wonder if she is really, completely broken up with this other guy? Her weirdness might be directly related to her semi-relationship with this other guy.

[heartoutside]

no, she broke up with him....i'm sure of that.

[D-Lish]

Heart,

 

From everything you have described- especially the childhood issues, it sounds like she really does have unresolved issues that will most likely follow her through life is she doesn't get help.

 

It must be hard to walk away when you guys both have strong feelings for each other.

 

I do think that you should consider moving on for the time being.

Otherwise, you're just staying stuck in this pattern of hurt.

 

I guess you have to make a decision as to how long you are willing to wait for her to make a decision. Not an easy thing to do when you love one another- but you can't keep waiting, it's just not healthy.

 

I feel for you. It's a sad story.

[upsetnhurt]

heartoutside,

 

You have it wrong man. I am in no way being negative towards you at all, just stating the obvious. Because I don't sugercoat things should not mean that I wish ill will on you. D-Lish says to back off or you will be stuck in the same patter long term. How is that different from what I have told you? I think you have to admit to yourself that there has to be something within yourself that pushes you to put up with this girl's antics, and it is not a high self esteem or love let me assure you. Normal, confident people do not put up with others who toy with their feelings.

 

Someone said it best on another thread....life is way too short to have to deal with this crap. You are going to wake up one morning and realize that you wasted so much time on someone that has no respect for your feelings. I really do want you to find happiness as I want all of the folks on LS to find happiness as well.

Edited February 7, 2008 by upsetnhurt

[millergirl]

Heart,

 

You sound like a great guy that any woman would be lucky to have in their lives. I think your ex truly loves you, she just has abandonment issues and needs to deal with that. She is afraid of commitment obviously and I don't think that she is ready to give you what you want right now. By backing off, giving her some space and giving her time to work out her issues might help her to see that she wants you and maybe after she deals with her issues can finally commit to a relationship with you. It will take a lot of work on her part but honestly if you don't see her doing the work on herself, you may just have to make the painful decision to let go. Your happiness counts too!

[heartoutside]

D-lish and Millergirl, thank you for the kind words. She does have abandonment issues, she knows, or thinks that is what they'll tell her if she goes to talk to someone. She also knows she needs help, but right now has A LOT on her plate being a full-time student, paying for school, working and living with a horrible roommate and her new puppy (but they are good friends and she is a good person, just a bad roommate ).

 

I guess only time will tell.

[bemovinon]

Heart,

I'm in a similar situation only we lived together since April. He is younger then me by about 10 yrs and that didnt help. he chased me, romanced me and promised the world. I had issues with his friends and with the fact that at 30 they all still partied like 20 yr olds. we live in a small rural college town and drinking is about all there is to do in the winter but he doesn't fair well when partying. So when he got that it wasn't going to fly with me that he went out all night and didnt come home he left back in October. Six weeks later he started texting me and calling me under the guise of having things at my house still. Proclaimed his undying love for me and utter regret at having left to begin with when he doesn't want to party his life away.

 

Long story short I let him come back. Everything was great thru Xmas and New Years then middle of Jan he decides hanging with the boys should be fine and drinking isn't an issue. Within 1 week he's gone and living on their couch. NC for 2 weeks then back last week wanting to come home. Not 4 hrs later calls to say he can't do it.

 

Comes over last Sat to get some of his stuff to put in storage and will be back for the rest??? Only explanation for change of mind is "we tried twice it didn't work" Tells me how much he misses me and loves me and has to go. Okie doke........... I stay strong and let him go.

 

NC since then and stuff all still in my garage. Last time he left things behind to have open door to return. This time is just rude and mean. If we weren't snowed in I would drop it off at the Thrift Store.

 

I know he will change his mind yet again at some point and want to come back. It is driving me nuts because my mind knows this is not healthy but my heart is still pulled along with my stomach every time I get a text.

 

I love him and want things to work and want him to get help too, but it has to be their decision and their priority to get help otherwise its just another reason to jump out.

 

I think our biggest mistake when we go thru a break up and it wasnt our choice is that we personalize it. Somehow thinking we could have done something or could still do something to change it. Truth is sometimes it is just "what it is" and we can't change that. Love is a powerful motivator and a powerful emotion that can cause pain. Thru love though we can learn to first and foremost Love ourselves and forgive others for what they either don't see or can't see in themselves that block love.

 

Back and forths do one thing if you keep it up..... It makes you question your sanity at why you took so many chances knowing it could only turn out the same as before without help in place. Or it gets you to the point of frustration that you don't care if they leave and you finally get to the point of having Enough!!

 

Good luck my friend, This too shall pass!! And only you know if you're done. Just remember someone can't heal because their with someone stable. They can only stabilize because they want it and need it and will do anything to get it including therapy.

 

Blessings,

B

[sedgwick]

Once again I agree with the divine wisdom of Jane.

[millergirl]

Heart,

 

You hit the nail on the head, time WILL tell. She has a lot on her plate right now, hopefully she will be able to reduce the stress in her life and realize that you will only make her life more positive and better!

 

Hang in there!

[heartoutside]

Well Oddly enough she contacted me the other day wanting to see if I wanted to go to dinner and a movie sometime. Last summer for our b-days our friend who is a chef gave us a gift card to her restaurant, we were also given some movie passes. I haven't replied as of yet. I think I'll go, but with no expectations. I may try and bring up the help aspect. But only if she talks about it. (Or should I bring it up?) I hope she is talking to someone, but I doubt she is. We really haven't talked much lately.....