Why are Americans so hell bent on saving their marriages?

[Ariadne]

Ex cell ennnnnnnt

 

 

(Btw, SamZamboni and I are old friends. Welcome to the board! )

[Curmudgeon]

I prefer an independent minded woman making the choice of being a home maker. Because she loves the man, and wants to be a SAHM taking care of the children and home, instead of spending 8 to 10 hrs a day in a stupid office.

 

...there are a lot of women who take great pride and satisfaction in their careers, finding them stimulating and rewarding.

 

For many years my wife was a practicing midwife and she delivered hundreds of babies in home births. Talk about tangible results of one's work. She loved it and has never regretted it as a career choice.

[marlena]

Actually, the Stepford wives were created by a woman that wanted to go back to the "way things were" and created a perfect world where everyone was happy after "she" got tired of being a corporate woman.

 

 

If, as you say, she wanted things to go back to the "way things were", why did she have the women, her protaganists, take up arms against this "perfect word" she had created? What was her message there?

[nittygritty]

Well, I think that the institution of marriage is obsolescent and redundant.

 

The only reason I would get married is to have children legitimately as I know there is still a lot of prejudice where children born out of wedlock are concerned. 'Til that time when this sort of prejudice is eradicated, I wouldn't put my child through this type of marginalization. Thankfully, things are changing.

 

I raised my daughter single-handedly and she grew up to be a very fine adult so I know single-parenting can work wonderfully.

 

Aren't you reducing men to the role of sperm donors and wallets by this?

[Ariadne]

...there are a lot of women who take great pride and satisfaction in their careers, finding them stimulating and rewarding.

 

That's true too.

 

If that is her passion and desire then I think it's wonderful.

[Ariadne]

take up arms against this "perfect word" she had created? What was her message there?

 

That you can't put a microchip in women's brains?

[marlena]

Aren't you reducing men to the role of sperm donors and wallets by this?

 

Of course not. I love men. My husband and I were divorced and I had custody. So, I did my best to bring up my daughter properly. That's all.

 

I believe in love and commitment as long as it is and remains heartfelt. I don't need to take vows to feel these things.

[marlena]

That you can't put a microchip in women's brains?

 

Or that the PERFECT world of PERFECT wives was not so perfect after all?

[Curmudgeon]

That you can't put a microchip in women's brains?

 

Or that the PERFECT world of PERFECT wives was not so perfect after all?

 

What's contrived is rarely a good as what's natural, and that certainly applies to people.

[SamZamboni]

Some are mindless while others are challenging to the mind.

 

It's all relative with respect to the particular mind of interest. Great fortunes have been built on cooking and equal ones to cleaning. Either could be thought an art, a skill, a talent, a gift. There's no correlation I can see that would preclude homemaking less than stimulating to the mind. We're not all intellects anyway. Or are we?

[nittygritty]

Of course not. I love men. My husband and I were divorced and I had custody. So, I did my best to bring up my daughter properly. That's all.

 

I believe in love and commitment as long as it is and remains heartfelt. I don't need to take vows to feel these things.

 

 

I love men too and I believe in love and commitment as well BUT the problem arises when male and female children are being raised singlehandly by women who work full-time, take care of the home, etc...with little or no male parenting involvement who aren't sharing an equal amount of parenting duties and responsibilities.

 

The influences of each generation of society is what brings about change. What changes do you suppose will be seen in the generations of kids being brought up solely and singlehandly by single moms?

 

Just from simple observations of LS there seems to be a whole new generation of women who learned that they wanted to be the "Other Woman" when they grew up.

 

I'm just saying...

Edited January 27, 2008 by nittygritty

[Woggle]

Yes, unfortunately that was the trade-off we've always had to make... up until now. Aren't you glad we're living in this age?? (And Woggle, before you go off on me, I absolutely adore men!)

 

You have admitted that you have issues with men.

[OpenBook]

The influences of each generation of society is what brings about change. What changes do you suppose will be seen in the generations of kids being brought up solely and singlehandly by single moms?

 

Well, what changes do YOU suppose will be seen??

[Woggle]

I am not directing this at anybody in this forum but there are many women who only wany men to be sperm donors and walking wallets. Child support is the only time when feminists seem to think that fathers matter.

[annieo]

I love men too and I believe in love and commitment as well BUT the problem arises when male and female children are being raised singlehandly by women who work full-time, take care of the home, etc...with little or no male parenting involvement who aren't sharing an equal amount of parenting duties and responsibilities.

 

The influences of each generation of society is what brings about change. What changes do you suppose will be seen in the generations of kids being brought up solely and singlehandly by single moms?

 

Just from simple observations of LS there seems to be a whole new generation of women who learned that they wanted to be the "Other Woman" when they grew up.

 

I'm just saying...

 

In an ideal world, marriages are built on love and trust, and children get to grow up in this kind of environment. But in the real world, people aren't always nice to each other, people change, people leave, and then it's down to the someone, usually the mother, to support and anchor her brood.

I take my hat off to these women. It sure as hell isn't easy, and many of them do a fabulous job, without a whole lot of help. I'm a teacher and I see these kids in my class all the time. Most of them are thriving.

And there are other kids with mom at home, dad bringing home the bacon, and the kids are still ignored, or so indulged they think they are entitled to everything for nothing. But most of them are thriving, as well.

My mother was raised singlehandedly by my grandmother (grandpa went to war and never came back). My grandmother worked like a trojan to make a better life for the two of them, in a new country where they had to start from scratch, including learning the language. My mom went to university, got her masters, married well and is a fantastic person and parent. It happens. Sometimes a little adversity builds character.

I really am troubled with the way you are generalizing. I'm just saying...

[nittygritty]

Well, what changes do YOU suppose will be seen??

 

 

Perhaps, were already seeing it...Who knows?

 

Hoping things will all turn out for the best doesn't ensure that it will...

[annieo]

I am not directing this at anybody in this forum but there are many women who only wany men to be sperm donors and walking wallets. Child support is the only time when feminists seem to think that fathers matter.

 

"Feminist" and "user" are not synonyms.

I have noticed that some men (my ex h, for example) become super-dads after a divorce. Before the split, the kids were lucky if they saw him for a couple of minutes before they went to sleep.

[Woggle]

It has nothing to do with being a user. Feminists tend to think that it is some great statement of independence and a middle finger to the patriarchy when a father is removed from the picture. Fathers are called optional extras at best and dangerous abusers at worst but let a man be one day late and one cent short on the child support and all hell will break loose.

[Curmudgeon]

Child support is the only time when feminists seem to think that fathers matter.

 

And not universally true. My wife was one of the original 60s bra-burning feminists. She'll be the first to tell you that Gloria Steinem and her ilk took what feminism was originally about and turned it into something ugly and aberrated.

 

My wife left her former husband when their daughters were 18 months and just turned four. She arrived back in California with the girls, two suitcases and $10 in her pocket. When she filed for divorce she asked for $200 a month for the two girls. That's it. The court insisted she get some child support so she asked for the bare minimum knowing he'd never pay it anyway. He didn't.

 

I contrast that to the non-feminist ex SAHM I was married to who ended up with $1,250 a month in child support for our two daughters, $600 a month in spousal support and wanted more, more, more. Plus she had a fully employed boyfriend she met seven months before we separated living with her and the girls.

 

One size does NOT fit all, Woggle. I thought you finally got that. My mistake. I was wrong!

[Curmudgeon]

It has nothing to do with being a user. Feminists tend to think that it is some great statement of independence and a middle finger to the patriarchy when a father is removed from the picture. Fathers are called optional extras at best and dangerous abusers at worst but let a man be one day late and one cent short on the child support and all hell will break loose.

 

All feminists are not created equal!

[Woggle]

For your wife that may be the case but feminists follow the Gloria Steniem brand today. She is a total hypocrite herself too. After all that fish and bicyles talk she went and got married anyway. There is a nothing worse than a zealot that does not practice what they preach.

[annieo]

I am a woman and I consider myself a feminist, which means that I think that women should be treated equally to men. Same pay for same work, for example. I absolutely don't hate men, love some to distraction (my current h, my son, my brother, my dad) but I do have some issues with a people (male or female) who think that there are proscribed roles for people based on gender.

The way I interpret the fish/bicycle comment (a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, for those of you who haven't heard it) is that women should not be with a man out of NEED, financial or social. That doesn't mean that women don't WANT to be with men, in ltr's, for emotional, sexual and other personal reasons. The same reasons men want to be with women, don't you think.

Woggle, do you want a woman to need you or want you, chose you?

[annieo]

It has nothing to do with being a user. Feminists tend to think that it is some great statement of independence and a middle finger to the patriarchy when a father is removed from the picture. Fathers are called optional extras at best and dangerous abusers at worst but let a man be one day late and one cent short on the child support and all hell will break loose.

 

This also bugs me. Do you know how often men don't PAY one cent of their court-ordered child support and get away with it? Hide assets, refuse to disclose earnings? I know of one situation like this, a friend. Not a penny, but he still has joint custody, because he's not a drug addict and there is no recorded history of abuse.

My ex has never, NEVER, shown me or our lawyers income tax returns, because then I'd actually have proof of his income, and support would be adjusted accordingly. My only option is court, and I can't afford it. So the game continues.

Do you know how many women don't ask for support, because they don't want the hassle? Have walked away from family homes, rrsp's, savings, etc. because they just wanted to get the hell out? It happens. Women are not all a bunch of money and soul-sucking vampires. There are alot of men out there who do fit that description.

I don't hate men, I hate liars.

[SamZamboni]

and then it's down to the someone, usually the mother, to support and anchor her brood.

 

 

[annieo]

and then it's down to the someone, usually the mother, to support and anchor her brood.

 

 

 

Being an optimist, I'm assuming this a prop. Thanks:)