Why are Americans so hell bent on saving their marriages?

January 27, 2008

With the divorce rate being as high as it is in the US, why do people in America always insist on "working on the marriage, get counseling, stay away from affairs" and on and on and on... It has become somewhat of a cliche on these boards.

Again, why this fervent persistence on upholding the institution of marriage at whatever cost? At times with devastating results, no less.

I just don't get it. Some things are just better not being saved.

Why not just tell someone who is absolutely miserably stuck in a marriage to dissolve the marriage and seek happiness elsewhere?

Life is too short to waste. I just don't get this trend. Honestly, I'd like to know.

Edited January 27, 2008 by marlena
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January 27, 2008

Many people still believe in the idea of marriage and want to live up to their marriage vows. Times are changing, people in general as a society are much more ME orinated, and selfish. Personal happiness seems to come first before responsibilities, vows and putting others first. I think that's why so many fight to keep their marriages, go to counselling.

January 27, 2008

Personal happiness seems to come first before responsibilities, vows and putting others first.

What is so wrong with that?

Do you mean that no matter how unhappy we are, we should throw our lives away because of some vows we took years ago?

Surely, wanting to enjoy pleasures in our short-lived mortal span upon this earth can not be such a reprehensible desire.

To me, electing to suffer is not healthy. It's sick. Masochistic even.

Edited January 27, 2008 by marlena

January 27, 2008

Some things are just better not being saved.

This is key...

Arriving at the realization that the marriage cannot be saved is different for each person or couple..

Once that realization happens then the divorce begins.. while you are involved in a failing marriage you are too close to make that judgment quickly..

also I know with me I wanted to feel like I did everything in my power to save it as I took my vows very seriously and at the time had married to be married only once so I went to the exhaustive length of marriage counseling and many other thing till I realized the marriage wasn't savable..

Yes.. looking back I could have come to that conclusion faster.. but I didn't becuase I was living in all the drama that existed in her life..

January 27, 2008

I think it's gotta have something to do with the Puritan ethic of our forefathers. I just don't know what the link is. Obviously (with our divorce rate) it's not working out so well for us. Why do you ask specifically about Americans? Is the attitude different elsewhere?

January 27, 2008

Ahhh, a subject after my own heart. I am truly amazed when I hear folks say "he/she broke our vows." I want to holler at them and say vows are human-made religious pledges designed to force people to commit to one another, at a time when we are usually way too young to know what we want to do for the next 60 or 70 years.

We all *believe* we will love this person for the rest of our lives, but that is unrealistic. People change and grow and unless a couple changes and grows in the same general direction, they will cease to want to be with one another.

Marriage keeps people together by law, by finances, by parental needs, etc. It is a necessary evil (for lack of a better phrase) designed to raise children together in a familial setting, in order to perpetuate society's current view of acceptable mores.

January 27, 2008

We all *believe* we will love this person for the rest of our lives, but that is unrealistic.

No it isn't.. if the divorce rate was 100% then it would be unrealistic.. but half of the marriages that people take their vows last...

My grandparents were married 68 years before death parted them..

It was realistic for them.. so why not for me or anyone else ?

January 27, 2008

Marriage conseling or individual conseling is all the rage in the US. In many countries in Europe, MC does not exist and very few people even enter into IC. People divorce simply because they want to, because they know it is the healthiest thing to do. And in may countries in Europe, the divorce rate is lower.

How is this explained?

I can't help but wonder if people in the US don't tend to overanalyse things and get stuck in the mire somehow. Some things are just black and white, plain and simple.

January 27, 2008

And in may countries in Europe, the divorce rate is lower.

How is this explained?

Did you look at the murder stats ? ... jk

January 27, 2008

No it isn't.. if the divorce rate was 100% then it would be unrealistic.. but half of the marriages that people take their vows last...

(LOL, I should have added my usual IMO disclaimer...)

And I would wager that more than half of those those that last are a complete and utter farce. We never know what really goes on in other people's marriages.

So, that leaves roughly 25% of marriages that may or may not be realistic and still loving. 25% is not a large enough percentage for me to support the institution of marriage. Just my opinion, of course.

My grandparents were married 68 years before death parted them...It was realistic for them.. so why not for me or anyone else ?

My grandparents celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary 3 years ago, so by your definition that means their marriage is realistic. But I happen to know that while they are committed to one another still, there were many times one or the other of them wanted to divorce. The only thing that kept them from it was due to the stigma attached to it for their generation.

I'm sorry I sound so jaded, I just haven't had the pleasure of witnessing very many successful marriages in my lifetime. The ones I *thought* were successful turned out not to be. Oh well...

January 27, 2008

I'm sorry I sound so jaded, I just haven't had the pleasure of witnessing very many successful marriages in my lifetime. The ones I *thought* were successful turned out not to be. Oh well...

We are all products of our experiences and environments.. don't apologize for having an opinion or feelings about an issue...

Isn't happiness really what it is all about ?.. even people who have multiple marriages under their belt can be happy.. the trick is to keep trying and not give up..

January 27, 2008

Isn't happiness really what it is all about ?.. even people who have multiple marriages under their belt can be happy.. the trick is to keep trying and not give up..

The stats for second and third marriages ending in divorce is even higher than for first marriages. But, you are very right - we should never give up. I admit I have. I simply don't believe I could ever be happily married again. But, I do think I could do happily dating-ever-after, yes.

January 27, 2008

Yes.. looking back I could have come to that conclusion faster.. but I didn't becuase I was living in all the drama that existed in her life..

Sweetie,

I fully understand what you are saying! It took me 15 years to figure it out on my own..and like you, I was too enmeshed emotionally to clearly see what was unfolding.

Today older and wiser, I would not have sacrificed those precious years that will NEVER EVER come back.

I, too, foolishly believed in love after ever.

Today, I know better.

That's why I would advise getting out EARLY, when the red flags are so flagrantly wavering in front of your face that you can barely see.

I don't believe in wasted years of counseling. It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to see where things are heading!

I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to see more posters supporting a person who wants to get out of a marriage rather than telling him to hang on , go to counseling blah-blah-blah.

Seriously, what good does suffering to all paties involved including children?

January 27, 2008

Sweetie,

I fully understand what you are saying! It took me 15 years to figure it out on my own..and like you, I was too enmeshed emotionally to clearly see what was unfolding.

Today older and wiser, I would not have sacrificed those precious years that will NEVER EVER come back.

I, too, foolishly believed in love after ever.

Today, I know better.

That's why I would advise getting out EARLY, when the red flags are so flagrantly wavering in front of your face that you can barely see.

I don't believe in wasted years of counseling. It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to see where things are heading!

I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to see more posters supporting a person who wants to get out of a marriage rather than telling him to hang on , go to counseling blah-blah-blah.

Seriously, what good does suffering to all paties involved including children?

Ditto 100%

January 27, 2008

Marriage conseling or individual conseling is all the rage in the US. In many countries in Europe, MC does not exist and very few people even enter into IC. People divorce simply because they want to, because they know it is the healthiest thing to do. And in may countries in Europe, the divorce rate is lower.

How is this explained?

I can't help but wonder if people in the US don't tend to overanalyse things and get stuck in the mire somehow. Some things are just black and white, plain and simple.

I do believe that we Americans have extremely high expectations of M... that the ideal to strive for is to keep the romance alive in it. From what I've observed about Europeans, they look at M more practically, that it's a life partnership, and romance may or may not be a part of it. I think it's because Europeans (as a society) have simply been around longer than we have. In short, Europeans are more accepting of the idea that M doesn't have to involve romance.

January 27, 2008

Marriage conseling or individual conseling is all the rage in the US. In many countries in Europe, MC does not exist and very few people even enter into IC. People divorce simply because they want to, because they know it is the healthiest thing to do. And in many countries in Europe, the divorce rate is lower.

How is this explained?

I can't help but wonder if people in the US don't tend to overanalyse things and get stuck in the mire somehow. Some things are just black and white, plain and simple.

in the case of abuse, yes, by all means get out. Otherwise, fight for the marriage. Stupid? Maybe. But I'm not going to invest in something that I don't believe in, and marriage ranks right up there. It's not something I went into thinking, "oh well, if it doesn't work, I can always leave him." Maybe it's my small-town, Mexican Catholic upbringing; maybe it's because I'm my mother's daughter. Any which way you cut it, I don't go into something expecting to fail, that's just stupid and it's a waste of time.

you comparing European divorce rates to US divorce rates is pretty much likening apples to oranges: If the attitude toward marriage over there is different, and people are more cautious about marriage, it goes to say that the divorce rate is much lower. While here, people treat it as part of the dating experience (and I've got several female relatives in mind as I type this), looking at marriage with the mentality of "I can always get a divorce" rather than "It's something I only plan to do once, m-a-a-a-y-y-be twice, so I better think this thing through really, really good."

January 27, 2008

:laugh:

marlena, your posts bring to mind something my bishop once told us when he first started working in East Texas: He was talking about a visit to Rome when a fellow prelate from France came up to him, kinda getting on to him about the rate of anullments sought by US Catholics. And bless his heart, my guy turns around and tells the French bishop, "It's like this: Catholics in my country don't want to be kept from the sacraments … they're interested in going to church more than for just baptisms and burials."

preach on, Big Al!!! :laugh::laugh:

so yeah, I guess that shows that we're serious about marriage over here, and will do what we must to preserve it.

January 27, 2008

I think it's gotta have something to do with the Puritan ethic of our forefathers. I just don't know what the link is. Obviously (with our divorce rate) it's not working out so well for us. Why do you ask specifically about Americans? Is the attitude different elsewhere?

I agree with this and this is what worries me most. It's a massive cultural attack on those who perceive of marriage in a different way. In my country, there are no marriage conselors. People don''t need to be told to work on anything or not work on anything. They go by their own personal judgement.

I have a lot of Sandinavian friends who I know consider divorce a natural solution to a relationship that is not working. It is what it is or is not.

A person isn't flawed because he seeks divorce. It just happens. No need for greulling through years of counseling or resorting to medications.

I just don't get this "vows" approach and "til death do us part."

People should divorce in a civil way. It is an indication of how advanced a culture is.

January 27, 2008

Ahhh, a subject after my own heart. I am truly amazed when I hear folks say "he/she broke our vows." I want to holler at them and say vows are human-made religious pledges designed to force people to commit to one another, at a time when we are usually way too young to know what we want to do for the next 60 or 70 years.

Precisely! That's why people should learn to divorce in a civilized way. It's best for all concerned. Even when an a "real" affair is involved.

January 27, 2008

While here, people treat it as part of the dating experience looking at marriage with the mentality of "I can always get a divorce"

I agree that happens a lot in today's society. Heck, I admit I said that very thing to myself, when I got cold feet the week before the wedding. We were already having frequency of sex issues, and I wondered if I was not making a mistake marrying a man whose libido was vastly lower than mine. But, by then the invitations were sent, the money was spent, and the rolling ball couldn't be stopped. So, I soothed my worries by telling myself marriage did not mean I would be chained to him forever, and divorce was an option if things proved to be too unpleasant. Unfortunately it took me 25 years to actually exercise that option. Oh well...

I do think we all get married too quickly and too young. Once upon a time the reason to do that was to be able to have sex. But with pre-marital sex being acceptable these days, I don't know why young people get married too soon.

Actually - now that I think about it, the young people in my neck of the woods aren't getting married! My daughter's contemporaries are in their mid 20s and they are all dating, cohabiting, having children, etc, but they aren't marrying. The young people at work are doing the same thing.

My daughter's explanation for herself is that she doesn't want to make a mistake, she wants to be very sure before she commits to marrying a man for life. And thank God she thinks that way - because she has dated some real doozies, and I would have hated to see her married to any of them!

January 27, 2008

Precisely! That's why people should learn to divorce in a civilized way. It's best for all concerned. Even when an a "real" affair is involved.

Well, the only argument I have against that is that it's only possible to divorce in a civilized way if both partners want the divorce. If one partner is still in love, then they may feel blind-sided and devastated.

You are right though, that it would be better if things were civilized. I like to think that if a partner of mine no longer wanted me, I could walk away in a dignified manner, knowing that I couldn't make them love me even though I still loved them. But, emotions don't always allow for that kind of rationale.

January 27, 2008

But I'm not going to invest in something that I don't believe in, and marriage ranks right up there.

I agree. But, sweetheat, it takes two to invest. When one of the teo parties ceases to want to invest, then, you have to let go! Coercing someone to do something he clearly does not want to do is ethically wrong. Forcing someone, psychologically, to remain married nullifies the concept of marriage by definition.

January 27, 2008

I am not a save marriage at all costs type of person but I do think that people are so unrealistic about it. They watch too many movies and expect it to be a 24/7 high and that will never last. Any healthy relationship needs moments of calm and contentment or else it will burn out quick. So many people leave for OM or OW and find that the same issues that existed before still exist and they repeat it again yet still don't find happiness. If you have a genuinely good person in your life that treats you well why not try and maintain that love with them rather than repeating this vicious cycle. It is a part of the typical westernized me me me mentality and I notice that many of the immgrants I know have a much healthier approach and seem much more happy. As for marriage counseling I don't know if I trust anybody that gets paid to pretend they care and that goes for any type of counseling.

January 27, 2008

even people who have multiple marriages under their belt can be happy.. the trick is to keep trying and not give up..

Agree 100%. Yes, it takes great strength of character and moral decency to do this. Many people stay in unhappy marriages because it is simple the EASIEST thing to do.

To me integrity is doing what is right not for myself but for others. If someone wants to go, I must have the moral decency to let him go. No matter how detrimental this course of action may be to myself.

I often think that people remain in unhappy marriages for selfish reasons. And weaknesses which to me are equally selfish.

January 27, 2008

As for marriage counseling I don't know if I trust anybody that gets paid to pretend they care and that goes for any type of counseling.

LOL, that made me laugh. It is true. But, I also like to think that counseling is productive not because a stranger is getting paid to hear our woes, but because they provide a safe environment for us to speak our minds, and for us to put things on the table we may have not known were lurking in us.

On a side note, I have wondered if individual counseling has become less common now that we all have the free internet to spill our guts on?!

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Why are Americans so hell bent on saving their marriages?

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