is it fair to ask spouse this question?

[blaze]

I think he said that to cover up what he was actually looking at and get her off his back.

 

Why would he feel the need to cover something up?

[allina]

Why would he feel the need to cover something up?

 

Well the OP stated that he has lied to her in the past about a lot of things showing that he is not the most trust worthy spouse. She also said that she is okay with him looking at porn. In addition she said that he went out of his way to delete his computer history which is unlike him. Why would he go out of his way to do this just to hide the fact that he was looking at a nude/pornographic site when she doesn't mind him doing so? People don't hide things from their spouse when there is no reason to, and there would be no reason for him to hide and erase his web history if it was just some porn site.

[blaze]

Well the OP stated that he has lied to her in the past about a lot of things showing that he is not the most trust worthy spouse. She also said that she is okay with him looking at porn. In addition she said that he went out of his way to delete his computer history which is unlike him. Why would he go out of his way to do this just to hide the fact that he was looking at a nude/pornographic site when she doesn't mind him doing so? People don't hide things from their spouse when there is no reason to, and there would be no reason for him to hide and erase his web history if it was just some porn site.

 

Ok, I see what you're saying. So what is it exactly that you're suggesting he was looking at?

[allina]

Ok, I see what you're saying. So what is it exactly that you're suggesting he was looking at?

 

I don't know, I don't have all the answers here :laugh: but something tells me it was a bit more incriminating than some nude women playing wii. There is clearly a pattern of distrust in this relationship (his lies about exs, strip clubs, her checking his computer and he hers) This leads me to believe that there must be at least some rational cause for the lack of trust. Maybe he is looking at dating sites, I don't know, all I can say is that this "confession" is fishy to me.

[blaze]

I don't know, I don't have all the answers here :laugh: but something tells me it was a bit more incriminating than some nude women playing wii. There is clearly a pattern of distrust in this relationship (his lies about exs, strip clubs, her checking his computer and he hers) This leads me to believe that there must be at least some rational cause for the lack of trust. Maybe he is looking at dating sites, I don't know, all I can say is that this "confession" is fishy to me.

 

Perhaps you're inclination is right, but at this point it is nothing more than speculation. Just as his wife can do nothing but speculate. So my suggestion is to change the dynamic of the marriage to one of respect and trust. Then based upon respect and trust maybe some dialogue can happen and the two of them can discuss their marriage openly and honestly.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with speaking to his ex, there's nothing inherently wrong with going to a strip club. That's why i'm leaning more towards thinking this is a situation where the guy just lies because he's afraid of his wife's reaction.

 

My hunch is that if this guy is looking at dating sites then there will be clear indications in the marriage that he feels unfullfilled by his wife and is looking for his needs to met elsewhere. I didn't see the OP mention that she saw these indications in her husband's behavior.

 

The bottomline is, speculation is counter-productive whereas healthy communication is the goal.

[a4a]

Perhaps the porn is more exciting and satisfying if it is hidden and considered more taboo?

[Mustang Sally]

A couple of things you might want to consider....

 

1) What is it, about his (potential) porn use that bothers you so much? Have you two talked extensively about your feelings regarding this issue? Why he likes it, why you feel threatened by it, etc... Was any sort of resolution reached?

 

2) Is it really fair of you to "snoop" on his computer? How would you feel if he did the same to you?

 

For example: what if you had recently gone on an internet shoe-buying spree (despite knowing that your H would be upset with you for doing it) and you wanted to cover your tracks because you know that you have the money in your account to pay for it - the expenditure won't really hurt your finances, and you feel like H is being overconcerned about something that is actually insignificant. (Besides....they were all on sale.....)

 

I know it seems like a silly example, but hopefully it might illustrate a point?

 

Definitely there are differing opinions about this, and sometimes they are affected by the "degree" of "wrongness" of whatever it is that you are snooping to find (i.e. porn vs. internet affair, as one example).

 

3) It's probably fair to ask one's spouse just about any question. But you need to carefully consider you true motives, first. And how your actions may or may not influence how your H is going to respond to you and behave in the future.

 

Just my opinion.

[rainfall]

For example: what if you had recently gone on an internet shoe-buying spree (despite knowing that your H would be upset with you for doing it) and you wanted to cover your tracks because you know that you have the money in your account to pay for it - the expenditure won't really hurt your finances, and you feel like H is being overconcerned about something that is actually insignificant. (Besides....they were all on sale.....)

affair, as one example).

 

.

 

 

How does buying shoes even come close to porn?

[Mustang Sally]

Many people have different opinions about the significance of porn.

I think you would do well to - at the very least - acknowledge this.

 

To many men, porn is a realistic part of their sexual selves. They feel they can easily separate it from their "real life" sex lives with their wives/SOs. The can't understand why it is such a point of contention to their women.

 

Besides, I already admitted that the example was "silly," but it was the best I could come up with at the moment, to show how something that one spouse feels is insignificant may be quite significant to the other. Cut me a little slack, could you? The point I was trying to make still stands.

 

It all depends on one's perspective.

That's all.

[annieo]

A couple of things you might want to consider....

 

1) What is it, about his (potential) porn use that bothers you so much? Have you two talked extensively about your feelings regarding this issue? Why he likes it, why you feel threatened by it, etc... Was any sort of resolution reached?

 

At the risk of repeating myself (both on this thread and others I've written/posted on) I DON"T MIND HIM LOOKING AT PORN!!!

 

I look at porn, on certain fun evenings, we look at porn together, and I am well aware of and not bothered by the fact that I know that he looks at it sometimes when I'm not around and gets off to it. This would really bother some women but I am not bothered or threatened by it at all.End of story. He knows this is how I feel.

 

It would bug me if he looked at/masturbated to porn all the time and never looked at/touched me, which is not the case (this weekend, frankly, sex was hot and plentiful. We made a tour of the house, you know what I mean? Three days in a row. And this is not terribly unusual. Sorry if I sound like I'm gloating).

 

Resolution - maybe??? I think (once again!!!) I've made it clear that sneaky lying bugs me. And I will admit that maybe he felt like he was cornered or something, but given our past (and given the non-issue nature of what he said he was looking at) I think he's got to understand that sometimes I may have a question or two.

 

Dating sites - I sure as hell hope not, and our relationship is generally solid, stable and (as this weekend proves) very much alive in the fun and passion department. But maybe no matter how great we are, he's always going to need to have something that doesn't include me (sexually). I don't know this for sure, but I fear it.

 

I get the impression from some of the posters here that they think that I am the problem, that I get too upset and that is why he lies (not that that is a great excuse). But the thing is, it's the lying that pushes my buttons. Everything he has admitted to is not a huge deal for me (well, except for the table dances, that pissed me off).

 

I hope that clarifies things. And thanks for all of your input, it's very interesting and useful.

[White Flower]

He may feel that he has to lie.

 

You can tell him that it's the lieing that upsets you... but you have to actually prove it before he can believe you.

 

My friend does this with his GF all the time. Why? Because he can't trust her emotionally. He is often unsure how she will react to the truth. So he must decide to fight or lie. Since she can't be trusted emotionally, he chooses to lie.

 

I have not decided if she is emotionally abusive in this way. I know he is always truthful with us... his friends, he just lies to his GF. Also, he is mortified by the thought of losing her respect.

 

Perhaps your H is similar?

 

I wanted to concur with this because this is sometimes the case. I had thought that my H was like this with me because his ex g/f was emotionally unstable but over the years I discovered that he was definitely an habitual liar.

 

Your H sounds similar to mine and I just hate telling you that. It could very well be that he was embarrassed or ashamed of you knowing his activity on the internet but you will always be guessing with him. I hate to say 'once a liar' because then you'll hear people say 'once a cheater' and I don't believe that about myself.

 

But, I hate to think of you living another 10, 15, or 20 years with this before you finally can't take the secrecy any more.

 

That is where I am now. I see the lawyer tomorrow. Good luck.

[annieo]

I wanted to concur with this because this is sometimes the case. I had thought that my H was like this with me because his ex g/f was emotionally unstable but over the years I discovered that he was definitely an habitual liar.

 

Your H sounds similar to mine and I just hate telling you that. It could very well be that he was embarrassed or ashamed of you knowing his activity on the internet but you will always be guessing with him. I hate to say 'once a liar' because then you'll hear people say 'once a cheater' and I don't believe that about myself.

 

But, I hate to think of you living another 10, 15, or 20 years with this before you finally can't take the secrecy any more.

 

That is where I am now. I see the lawyer tomorrow. Good luck.

 

Thanks for sharing, WF. I am beginning to think that for him, lying about some stuff is just a reflexive action. And I think he thinks he somewhat justified, although he would never admit this (either!).

As misery loves company, would you mind sharing some details? What did your h lie about? I know this is a little presumptuous, but I'd like to compare notes.

[White Flower]

 

Resolution - maybe??? I think (once again!!!) I've made it clear that sneaky lying bugs me. And I will admit that maybe he felt like he was cornered or something, but given our past (and given the non-issue nature of what he said he was looking at) I think he's got to understand that sometimes I may have a question or two.

 

I get the impression from some of the posters here that they think that I am the problem, that I get too upset and that is why he lies (not that that is a great excuse). But the thing is, it's the lying that pushes my buttons. Everything he has admitted to is not a huge deal for me (well, except for the table dances, that pissed me off).

 

I hope that clarifies things. And thanks for all of your input, it's very interesting and useful.

You have every right to feel that way. God gave us an intuition for a reason and for anyone to ruin that gift is messing up the good senses we were given.

 

It is so funny that while my H is such a liar he has not asked me ONCE if I am having an A. I have learned a lot from living with a liar: he thinks everyone else lies too and if he straight out asks me he thinks I won't tell him the truth because THAT is his experience with himself. If he flat out asked me today I would proudly tell him I was having an A and thank God I was able to find someone who could show me there actually exists sweet gentlemen on this planet.

 

Good luck Annieo. You have every right to ask and ask. If he has nothing to hide then he shouldn't be bothered with your asking.

[White Flower]

Thanks for sharing, WF. I am beginning to think that for him, lying about some stuff is just a reflexive action. And I think he thinks he somewhat justified, although he would never admit this (either!).

As misery loves company, would you mind sharing some details? What did your h lie about? I know this is a little presumptuous, but I'd like to compare notes.

Do you have PM rights? I'll share more but for now I'll just tell you that it started out with stupid little things like having gone to Las Vegas when he said he went fishing. He and his buddy thought they were so smoothe, lol. I got them both to admit it to me.

 

Then there were lunch dates with female coworkers. I didn't make a big deal out of this, heck, I have lunch dates with male coworkers. It was the lying that got me wondering. I never yelled, screamed, cried, or judged, so why lie? There is no reason to lie to someone who is so easygoing as I am.

 

Then came some online gambling I had no clue about until I read our tax filings. This is a big one. He was able to hide this real well. I finally went to my accountant and got the skinny. She told me she wouldn't trust him as far as she could throw him. Funny how love is blind. I didn't see it for so long. I'd had an inkling and knew he lied about stupid little things, but I didn't know about the big stuff right before my eyes. I guess the little stuff was distracting me from the bigger stuff.

 

It has gotten so bad that I have had nightmares about losing my home and falling out of airplanes. There is no retirement nor savings. On top of this he speaks another language and is often on the phone with family and friends and could be arranging anything and everything right in front of me and I wouldn't know. This is not to say that one cannot trust multi-lingual speakers; just that someone like my H would take advantage of it.

 

I hope your H is just embarrassed and not getting into bigger and better things.

[annieo]

Thanks again, WF, but I've got to ask. Don't you feel like that your affair kind of puts you in the same deceptive league. No matter what your h has done. And I am speaking as someone who left marriage 1 in the midst of my own A. Because sometimes I feel like whatever crap I get from current h is some kind of karmic payback for what I have done in the past.

Although, in my defense, I only lied to h number one for a little under a week, from when A began, to asking for a divorce and fessing up about the OM. I have been known to tell some little white lies, but biggies are too heavy for me to carry around.

As to intuition, yup, my spidey senses have been tingling for a year and a half now. He's sweet as pie most of the time, but I just don't think I know everything about him sometimes.

[annieo]

Hi again, I was writing my previous post when you sent yours. No, I don't have PM rights, and I'm a bit of a dope when it comes to setting stuff like that up, but I may try.

And please don't take offense to me questioning you, suggesting hypocrisy. Now that I've read your most recent post, I agree that your h has lost all rights to honesty from you. I would do the same thing.

[annieo]

I would do the same thing, I just hope that I don't end up doing it, out of bitterness. But, you never know. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Stop spying on your husband. If he wants more than what you are giving than discuss it with him, but to spy is just as devious as what he is doing.

 

Talk to him instead of spying on him.

[annieo]

Stop spying on your husband. If he wants more than what you are giving than discuss it with him, but to spy is just as devious as what he is doing.

 

Talk to him instead of spying on him.

 

I don't think you can call it spying when he's sitting across the table from me, and we talk about everything right away. Spying implies secrecy, and I'm an open book.

[White Flower]

Hi again, I was writing my previous post when you sent yours. No, I don't have PM rights, and I'm a bit of a dope when it comes to setting stuff like that up, but I may try.

And please don't take offense to me questioning you, suggesting hypocrisy. Now that I've read your most recent post, I agree that your h has lost all rights to honesty from you. I would do the same thing.

You know, I have not felt guilty and THAT surprised me at first.

 

I suppose it is because deep down inside I knew it was over anyway, so why not let the A happen, why confess, and why feel guilt (toward my H)? I do, however, feel guilty when it comes to MM's W. She is a good woman and innocent in all of this. I'm sure she loves her H and would hurt if she knew about us.

 

I always thought I would be the kind of person that got out of the M first yet here I am having an A before the M ends. Again, I knew the M was no longer growing; in fact, it was dying. I still would prefer to have waited before getting involved again; however, I just felt a very strong connection with MM and I never thought I would find that again. I tricked myself into believing that loving him for a little while was better than never having loved him at all. Well, it's true, but the ending it is the hard part.

 

Thanks for understanding after having read my last post. So maybe now you see it as a sort of justice rather than a hypocrisy? Like I said, I'd like to have found someone after the D instead of before, but I don't feel as though H loves me or even cares at this point. I think he is only sorry that I won't be financing his gambling habit anymore.

 

If I told you everything you (all on LS) would line up to finance my D and televize the celebration afterward, lol. Seriously, I have so many wonderful friends who are backing me up AND they know about the A.

 

So, Annieo, do you feel that your R and the way it started has led you to think you cannot trust your H, or is it just his recent online activity and his lying about it? I ask out of sincerity. I hate to think I would someday marry my guy and later regret it because he had a lying problem that I didn't recognize.

[White Flower]

Hi again, I was writing my previous post when you sent yours. No, I don't have PM rights, and I'm a bit of a dope when it comes to setting stuff like that up, but I may try.

And please don't take offense to me questioning you, suggesting hypocrisy. Now that I've read your most recent post, I agree that your h has lost all rights to honesty from you. I would do the same thing.

You know, I have not felt guilty and THAT surprised me at first.

 

I suppose it is because deep down inside I knew it was over anyway, so why not let the A happen, why confess, and why feel guilt (toward my H)? I do, however, feel guilty when it comes to MM's W. She is a good woman and innocent in all of this. I'm sure she loves her H and would hurt if she knew about us.

 

I always thought I would be the kind of person that got out of the M first yet here I am having an A before the M ends. Again, I knew the M was no longer growing; in fact, it was dying. I still would prefer to have waited before getting involved again; however, I just felt a very strong connection with MM and I never thought I would find that again. I tricked myself into believing that loving him for a little while was better than never having loved him at all. Well, it's true, but the ending it is the hard part.

 

Thanks for understanding after having read my last post. So maybe now you see it as a sort of justice rather than a hypocrisy? Like I said, I'd like to have found someone after the D instead of before, but I don't feel as though H loves me or even cares at this point. I think he is only sorry that I won't be financing his gambling habit anymore.

 

If I told you everything you (all on LS) would line up to finance my D and televize the celebration afterward, lol. Seriously, I have so many wonderful friends who are backing me up AND they know about the A.

 

So, Annieo, do you feel that your R and the way it started has led you to think you cannot trust your H, or is it just his recent online activity and his lying about it? I ask out of sincerity. I hate to think I would someday marry my guy and later regret it because he had a lying problem that I didn't recognize.

[White Flower]

Hi again, I was writing my previous post when you sent yours. No, I don't have PM rights, and I'm a bit of a dope when it comes to setting stuff like that up, but I may try.

And please don't take offense to me questioning you, suggesting hypocrisy. Now that I've read your most recent post, I agree that your h has lost all rights to honesty from you. I would do the same thing.

You know, I have not felt guilty and THAT surprised me at first.

 

I suppose it is because deep down inside I knew it was over anyway, so why not let the A happen, why confess, and why feel guilt (toward my H)?

 

I do, however, feel guilty when it comes to MM's W. She is a good woman and innocent in all of this. I'm sure she loves her H and knowing about us would cause her pain.

 

I always thought I would be the kind of person that got out first yet here I am having an A before the M ends. Again, I knew the M was no longer growing; in fact, it was dying. I still would prefer to have waited before getting involved again; however, I just felt a very strong connection with MM and I never thought I would find that again. I tricked myself into believing that loving him for a little while was better than never having loved him at all. Well, it's true, but the ending it is the hard part.

 

Thanks for understanding after having read my last post. If I told you everything you (all on LS) would line up to finance my D and televize the celebration afterward, lol. Seriously, I have so many wonderful friends who are backing me up AND they know about the A.

 

So maybe now you see it as a sort of justice rather than a hypocrisy? Like I said, I'd like to have found someone after the D instead of before, but I don't feel as though H loves me or even cares at this point. I think he is only sorry that I won't be financing his gambling habit anymore.

 

So, Annieo, do you feel that your R and the way it started has led you to think you cannot trust your H , or is it just his recent online activity and his lying about it? I ask out of sincerity. I hate to think I would someday marry my guy and later regret it because he had a lying problem that I didn't recognize.

 

I tried posting this once before and it appears it didn't go through. Sorry if it comes up as a double post.

Edited January 29, 2008 by White Flower

[annieo]

I don't think it's about the lies/duplicity when we first got together. Because I was the married one, I feel that I am most guilty in that respect. It's the recent lying, about online stuff and strip clubs, that have really got me thinking.

Thanks for your generosity of spirit in sharing. And who knows with your MM. Despite everything, I'm a romantic and believe that some people are meant to be together. Even if it's just a painful learning experience.

[White Flower]

Wow, so I got a triple post, sorry about that.

 

I agree about believing that some people are meant to be together and are so right for each other. With that spirit, I really wish for a wonderful future for my H because he never got it with me and I never got it with him. And life isn't all that bad for MM and his W yet it is better with us.

 

Good luck with finding the heart of the matter with your H. Keep us posted:)

[annieo]

Will do. Am getting my crystal ball and tarot cards out, and will work on my mind reading skills. That may be the only way to get to the truth.