Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Do you believe in actions to consequences or do you believe that a 2 year old toddler intuitively knows that it's not okay to put their little fingers in the electrical socket? Maybe you believe that they should try it and learn from that? We are taking about punishment, do you believe in punishing a two year old who was about to put his fingers in a electrical socket? I don't have a big problem with parents gently guiding there children, but I view this whole punishment thing is wrong, the idea that we should use punishment to teach our children about "morality" of all things is completely backwards and should have died a long time ago.
Trialbyfire Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 We are taking about punishment, do you believe in punishing a two year old who was about to put his fingers in a electrical socket? I don't have a big problem with parents gently guiding there children, but I view this whole punishment thing is wrong, the idea that we should use punishment to teach our children about "morality" of all things is completely backwards and should have died a long time ago. How much experience do you have gently guiding a toddler away from an electrical socket?
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Did I misunderstand you Arch? Are you trying to say that you only believe in positive reinforcement as a method to "guide" chlidren's behavior?
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 How much experience do you have gently guiding a toddler away from an electrical socket? :lmao: "Here little Jimmy. Step away from that socket please. Please? Mommy's begging you to not touch that...AAAARRRRGHHHH!":laugh:
Trialbyfire Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 :lmao: "Here little Jimmy. Step away from that socket please. Please? Mommy's begging you to not touch that...AAAARRRRGHHHH!":laugh: "Mommy, you were right. I shudna touched that shocking device. My hair feels kinda' funny and my fingers are black."
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Did I misunderstand you Arch? Are you trying to say that you only believe in positive reinforcement as a method to "guide" chlidren's behavior? Spankings are positive reinforcements in my book. They positively reinforce the fact that I did not approve of little Johnny's behavior.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Did I misunderstand you Arch? Are you trying to say that you only believe in positive reinforcement as a method to "guide" chlidren's behavior? Yes, but even then some things you need to let people figure out for themselves and not have them goaded into doing something by a parent or someone else.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Spankings are positive reinforcements in my book. They positively reinforce the fact that I did not approve of little Johnny's behavior. Children that were spanked grow up to be more violent and aggressive towards others, that is a fact.
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 "Mommy, you were right. I shudna touched that shocking device. My hair feels kinda' funny and my fingers are black." :lmao: I think Johnny would have been better off with a spanking! A red tushy is better than funny hair and black fingers (that aren't supposed to be black that is.)
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Spankings are positive reinforcements in my book. They positively reinforce the fact that I did not approve of little Johnny's behavior. Hear, hear! Hey. I have four kids. I gotta say, Arch? You have no practical idea of what you speak. But hey - it's a free country. I guess when you have your children, you can do it however you like. As for me? I'm a bit old school. I think respect, an understanding of the concept of "shame," and a little bit of fear (yeah - that's right, I said FEAR) of consequences is perfectly appropriate for children...and well, pretty much those of us that aren't children, as well. JMO. Good luck with that.
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Children that were spanked grow up to be more violent and aggressive towards others, that is a fact. Hogwash. Children who aren't grow up to be deviant outcasts. Well some do. Just like some who are spanked do. You are generalizing again. Please stop.
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Hear, hear! Hey. I have four kids. I gotta say, Arch? You have no practical idea of what you speak. But hey - it's a free country. I guess when you have your children, you can do it however you like. As for me? I'm a bit old school. I think respect, an understanding of the concept of "shame," and a little bit of fear (yeah - that's right, I said FEAR) of consequences is perfectly appropriate for children...and well, pretty much those of us that aren't children, as well. JMO. Good luck with that. Did you say FEAR? Fear and shame? How politically incorrect of you. What will that do to their self esteem? (100% agreed with your post of course.)
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Hear, hear! Hey. I have four kids. I gotta say, Arch? You have no practical idea of what you speak. But hey - it's a free country. I guess when you have your children, you can do it however you like. As for me? I'm a bit old school. I think respect, an understanding of the concept of "shame," and a little bit of fear (yeah - that's right, I said FEAR) of consequences is perfectly appropriate for children...and well, pretty much those of us that aren't children, as well. JMO. Good luck with that. I don't need to, I can simply look at statistics, just because you don't have the knowledge on how to avoid resorting to violence does not mean that what you are doing is correct. Fear of violence, should never be used, ever. You are literally telling your kid, stop doing something or else I am going to hit you. Oh hey thats right - if someone did that to there wife they would be considered a wife beater... oh yea, they still apply that logic in allot of Muslim countries, if your wife does something wrong, you have the right rough her up.... Honestly I cant fathom how a parent can rationalize hitting a kid, I can only say I am happy I never grew up in a environment surrounded by violence and fear. Also, here is a couple quick links you should look at, http://life.familyeducation.com/parenting/spanking/45304.html http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9708/14/nfm.spanking/index.html the only reason you spank is because your mad, you hate your kid at that moment in time, you lose control, then later on you rationalize what you did, its funny I personally think spanking only shows how you the parent is doing a bad job, because you cant handle the issue without resorting to violence.
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 What will that do to their Hopefully it will give them some knowledge of a currently under-appreciated (in our society) concept of SELF-RESTRAINT. So that when they become teenagers, and they are making the decisioin whether or not they feel that it might be a good thing for them to get in the car with Joe-Bob, who is 3 sheets to the wind, maybe a little Fear-Of-My-Momma will kick in and save their asses. I'm just a crazy old Mama Bear, but until their cognitive and reasoning skills reach adult capacity, I'd like to instill a little auto-pilot, if you will. OP - Kudos to you for taking up the issue with your daughter. As the mother of a kid (son) who got into it with another kid at school last year, and then punished my kid and - <gasp!> even made him apologize (and publically, even ) - while the other parents did NOTHING but told their kid to stay away from my devil-spawn.... I commend you for holding your daughter accountable for her behavior.
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Last thing I'm going to say, because I realize it is VERY un-PC of me. I believe their is a difference between hitting and spanking. And if you don't, then again - you don't know what or how I do what I do with my kids. I've read all the statistics. Believe me. It has to do with what I do for a living. 'Nuff said.
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Oh. And when did I say I resort to violence? Fear does not unequivocally equal violence the last time I checked.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Last thing I'm going to say, because I realize it is VERY un-PC of me. I believe their is a difference between hitting and spanking. And if you don't, then again - you don't know what or how I do what I do with my kids. I've read all the statistics. Believe me. It has to do with what I do for a living. 'Nuff said. Honestly hitting is hitting, it doesn't matter on what part of the body. I don't get how anyone here can support child abuse, all I can say is that I thank that hypothetical god I never had those negative experiences.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Oh. And when did I say I resort to violence? Fear does not unequivocally equal violence the last time I checked. What else induces fear? Pain, whats the most direct way the cause pain, physical violence. The only people that doesn't apply to are masochists.
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 What else induces fear? Wow. Well, I can think of lots of things from when I was an adolescent. Like....fear that my parents would be disappointed in me if I made a bad decision because I actually respected them and what they thought of me because they loved me enough as a child to set clear, definable limits and boundaries on what was acceptable behavior in their eyes and under their roof. No violence was involved, by the way.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Wow. Well, I can think of lots of things from when I was an adolescent. Like....fear that my parents would be disappointed in me if I made a bad decision because I actually respected them and what they thought of me because they loved me enough as a child to set clear, definable limits and boundaries on what was acceptable behavior in their eyes and under their roof. No violence was involved, by the way. So you let fear get in your way when it came to making a decision, thats not good at all. Fearing that your parents will be disappointed in you thats not good, so in order to receive love from them you had to live in fear of disappointing them? My parents always supported me no matter what, fear doesn't work well, as you said - positive encouragement is what does. I knew my parents respected me enough to know that it was positive for me to explore and grow on my own, without there intervention.
Mustang Sally Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 So you let fear get in your way when it came to making a decision, thats not good at all. Fearing that your parents will be disappointed in you thats not good, so in order to receive love from them you had to live in fear of disappointing them? My parents always supported me no matter what, fear doesn't work well, as you said - positive encouragement is what does. I knew my parents respected me enough to know that it was positive for me to explore and grow on my own, without there intervention. Hey - Glad it worked for you, as I have said. Clearly, you must have been an exceptional child. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. I would just caution you that it's pretty hard to make any bets on how you will or won't decide to raise kids until you have some of your own. Sometimes life throws little monkey wrenches at you...and you know what they say about the best laid plans. I have had to amend my approach somewhat for each of my kids - they are individuals, after all. My approach to how best to discipline them and deal with them in general has had to be individualized as well. Nor do I think that what necessarily worked for one's parents and oneself are always the best things to propagate with one's children. Peace. Over and out.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Hey - Glad it worked for you, as I have said. Clearly, you must have been an exceptional child. But we'll just have to agree to disagree. I would just caution you that it's pretty hard to make any bets on how you will or won't decide to raise kids until you have some of your own. Sometimes life throws little monkey wrenches at you...and you know what they say about the best laid plans. Nor do I think that what necessarily worked for one's parents and oneself are always the best things to propagate with one's children. Peace. Over and out. Goodbye, please remember violence is not the answer.
Touche Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 Goodbye, please remember violence is not the answer. It's not violence. Look up the definition. No one should be violent towards anyone.
Arch Posted January 25, 2008 Posted January 25, 2008 It's not violence. Look up the definition. No one should be violent towards anyone. I define hitting as violence, again it doesn't matter where. My problem really is not with violence in general, but violence towards your offspring, I find it repulsive. Honestly I find this whole conversation rather funny, I got a thing for B/D, but ironically I am the one saying abuse is bad. Any type of hitting I view as abusive especially to a toddler - really what the ****, and spanking is defined within the hitting class or definition, People need to control there anger and outbursts, I was at a store where this kid was crying and the mother was spewing insults threatening to "beat your ass when I get home", The kid did not bother me at all, the mother was the one embarrassing herself by reacting in such a way. People need to learn how to stay calm, when a kid shows a lack of control he/she is inexperienced, when an adult shows a lack of control and center they are a bad parent clear and simple.
Author hotgurl Posted January 25, 2008 Author Posted January 25, 2008 Wow thank you for all the replies. I have to go and read them. But I did decide to pull her from basketball. I talk to her teacher about who is alos the coach and he agreed. She is very commited to basketball and her team. Because of this I felt it would make an impression on her. Internet is big for her because that is how she communicates. She ims and hardly calls people. I had talked to the other girls mother when they 1st started fighting and she said her daughter has become very snotty in general recently. The ge and hormones etc... My dughter went through this stage last year. And as a side note I do reward her good behavior I actually almost never have to punish her and when I do punish her we always talk about it. Because puinishment without talking about why they are being punished is usless. I think at this age at lot of it has to do with impulse control. She said she was frustrated and just didn't want to be insulted by this girl anymore. I am going to talk to the school about this because I knwo threatning and insulting is different but the girl should be punished as well. She called my daughter a slut and a whore. The school did in school suspension for that day. But they share a principal with another district so he wasn't available to handle it so she may have some other punsihment at school. It is a very small K-8 school. And that is part of the problem because theese two girls can't get away from each other. There are 60 kids in the whole school.
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