I'm so disappointed in my bf =(

January 28, 2008

Uh oh.

Fray, this is totally unreasonable. First off, you don't know your sister's bf in the same context. How you perceive your sister's r/s with her bf may or may not mirror reality (likely, it doesn't).

Second, it's fine to have high expectations so long as they are within reason. But you have had this guy under a microscope, analysing his every word and deed, for the entire time you've been with him. Further, you want him to accept all the "flaws" you bring to the table (and we all have flaws, I am not singling you out) but you don't want to cut him any slack.

I think you should take some time and try to figure out why you have sabotaged this r/s and what it is you are truly looking for. Based on your posts here, I am not sure any man will be able to be "the one" for you untill you resolve some of the issues around your expectations.

You did the right thing by letting him go, you two weren't compatible. What is confusing for me is that what I'm reading here does not sound like the thought process of a healthy, rational, 25 year old woman. I have very high expectations when it comes to how I am treated in a relationship. I think it's important to expect the best from the person that we commit to for the long road but you are way off base here.

I'm not saying that you're a bad person but you seem really lost, possibly sheltered?

In any case, maybe you need to take some time to figure out if you are ready for a relationship otherwise, you will always be "guessing" what they are thinking and why they are doing whatever they may be doing at the moment.

Good luck

(Re: not being ready) Lol Star, always so blunt...and right.

For your review, Fray. These were from page 3 alone.

January 28, 2008

LB is a therapist. She's trained to be neutral. I'm an attorney. I advocate. If you don't like my style of communicating the SAME MESSAGE, put me on IGNORE.

That said, AGAIN, you totally miss the mark.

It's not your refusal to take the pill that makes you not ready for a sexual relationship, Fray. It's your whole attitude throughout this entire thread, your entire perspective on this sexual relationship, from your expectations of literal perfection from "the one," your impulsive breakup, your assumptions about the pros and cons of certain BC before even researching it, your body insecurities, to the fact that "good sex" isn't important to you...all of it. You come across as incredibly naive and immature about relationships and sex. For all of these reasons, and many others, I don't think you're ready for a serious relationship, sexual or otherwise. And OTHERS here have AGREED with me. Re-read the thread, Fray.

Like I said, it's more of how you say it than what you say. Some agree with you just like how some agree with me as well. That is fine. People have different opinions on things. And like I also said, I have issues and I know it, and my bf knows it as well...but for now, both me and my bf have agreed to try to work on things instead of breaking up. For now, we both care about each other enough to make it worth another shot and I'm happy about that. Will it work out? I don't know. But I don't want to regret thus I'm still in the r/s and going to wait and see some more.

January 28, 2008

There's always anal sex.

January 28, 2008

Like SG said, maybe you could consider therapy as well to do with some of your insecurities, so you can discontinue the distructive relationship pattern.

This is very strange and immature behavior for a 25 year old. Seek therapy because you are going to have to date men under 18 who would put up with this crap.

So it would seem you are making yet another decision based on your insecurities and lack of proper information.

I'm happy that you managed to work this out, but the way you handled this situation, and your description of your (abnormal) (over)reactions to other situations in this relationship, have me convinced that you probably do need some therapy to work out your issues. You sound insecure and irrational...

But thank you for proving my point that your decision making process is based on insecurities and misinformation.

Please seek out therapy because you seem to have multiple issue you need to take care of.

(By BG: "Quite frankly, Fray - not only are you not emotionally mature enough to handle a relationship, I don't think you're emotionally mature enough to handle a sexual relationship either. I don't think you're capable of handling any of this until you get some serious therapy.")

To be honest I have to agree with this one wholeheartedly. Fray you clearly have some significant insecurities, that cause you to take much of what your B/F does or says in the worst possible way.

You need help to overcome this, and I would hazard that you will not be able to truly enjoy a healthy relationship until you do.

Your readiness for a relationship has nothing to do with your view of the pill. Stop focussing on the b/s - read the post as it was intended. Just like you need to believe what your b/f says to you versus how you perceived it.

Your reactions to posters here as well as how you've described your reactions to your b/f are what make us say these things.

You are missing the point here, this is not so much about BC but how this 25 year old woman is dealing with this whole situation.

I completely agree that she has some major issue she is going to need to work through and that therapy would be a very healthy and helpful option for the OP.

I think it's about preferences. And like Stargazer said, you two probably aren't sexually compatible if this is such an issue. I agree that neither of you are probably ready to be sexually active...

I think you two need to break up, you are not compatible, nor are either of you ready to be involved in a sexual relationship, especially not with each other. ... INCOMPATIBLITY.

Fray, I think the reason we are challenging what you are saying is because you are very misinformed about BC. And everytime someone comes up with a reason why you are being hasty and irrational about it, you come up with another justification for how you are feeling.

... I'm just wondering if you are using that as some sort of amunition against your bf. Overall, i stand by what I said about your incompatiblity.

I came to the conclusion that you're not ready for this based on an overall picture - and not just from this thread either. Clearly, I'm clearly not alone in this opinion.

This isn't a "You're unwilling to go on the pill, therefore you aren't ready for a sexual relationship," thing here, Fray. The fact that you can't see that and are so focused on the BC issue alone further convinces me you're just not ready for what a sexual relationship involves.

To be perfectly honest, ever since I read your very first post here on LS, I thought you were no older than 17. That's how your thought processes read to me. I would have never ever guessed you were in your mid-20's.

January 28, 2008

Like I said, it's more of how you say it than what you say. Some agree with you just like how some agree with me as well. That is fine. People have different opinions on things. And like I also said, I have issues and I know it, and my bf knows it as well...but for now, both me and my bf have agreed to try to work on things instead of breaking up. For now, we both care about each other enough to make it worth another shot and I'm happy about that. Will it work out? I don't know. But I don't want to regret thus I'm still in the r/s and going to wait and see some more.

If you came to LS to be coddled... you came to the wrong place.

I do hope you find happiness, Fray. But I also suggest you assess whether you're ready for this. Not whether it will work someday after a lot of hard work and heartache, but whether you're ready for it at all. That's all I'm saying.

January 28, 2008

To be perfectly honest, ever since I read your very first post here on LS, I thought you were no older than 17. That's how your thought processes read to me. I would have never ever guessed you were in your mid-20's.

This comment is true. That is because I didn't start dating until I was 22. I'm a late bloomer. But if I'm to opt out of a r/s because 'im not ready' then how can I learn? Therapy helps. But real life r/s also helps me to learn and I do not want to deprive myself of romance. I've deprived myself of that in hs and in college...it's time I experience it. I've been with two other guys before my current bf and though I got hurt badly I don't regret it because I learned from them and I also thought the experiences made my life richer.

January 28, 2008

This comment is true. That is because I didn't start dating until I was 22. I'm a late bloomer. But if I'm to opt out of a r/s because 'im not ready' then how can I learn? Therapy helps. But real life r/s also helps me to learn and I do not want to deprive myself of romance. I've deprived myself of that in hs and in college...it's time I experience it. I've been with two other guys before my current bf and though I got hurt badly I don't regret it because I learned from them and I also thought the experiences made my life richer.

I know you're a late bloomer. I get that. I also know that this is your FIRST "real" BF, and yet you lost your virginity to him after only 2 months of dating.

As such, your relationship, in all honesty, is no different than a 17 year old losing her virginity after 2 months. I'd be saying the same thing to such a girl, because the truth of the matter is that she would not be ready for a SEXUAL relationship either.

If you want to learn, take it ONE STEP AT A TIME. Go ahead and date, have all the romance in the world, and build a foundation of a real RELATIONSHIP. The first step is learning how to date and be yourself - insecurities and all - in a relationship. Add sex only after you've figured that out.

January 28, 2008

I know you're a late bloomer. I get that. I also know that this is your FIRST "real" BF, and yet you lost your virginity to him after only 2 months of dating.

As such, your relationship, in all honesty, is no different than a 17 year old losing her virginity after 2 months. I'd be saying the same thing to such a girl, because the truth of the matter is that she would not be ready for a SEXUAL relationship either.

If you want to learn, take it ONE STEP AT A TIME. Go ahead and date, have all the romance in the world, and build a foundation of a real RELATIONSHIP. The first step is learning how to date and be yourself - insecurities and all - in a relationship. Add sex only after you've figured that out.

Thanks. I like what you said here in this post and how you said it in a (relatively) nice and helpful way. I don't quite agree with the sex part...I'm almost glad we had sex early on because at least we aren't waiting 6 months into the r/s only to find out we might not be sexually compatible. But in general waiting a bit for sex is a good idea overall I'd supposed.

However, I agree with taking things one step at a time. I do feel like I have a real r/s with my current bf...we are discussing and trying to resolve issues here and we care about each other and express our feelings to each other. I feel close to him most of the time. I think some of this I achieved because I learned from the two previous guys' I've been with. Taking it slow is good advice.

January 28, 2008

Just that I've never felt this way about anyone before...my bf is the first guy I thought about marrying...and he tells me that he wants a future with me...so maybe it's worth taking some time with.

This is absolutely insane. You dump him one week and then you want to marry him the next!?!?!

Plus he is the ONLY guy you have ever been with that is unless you think about marrying people you just bump into.

Your behavior is completely erratic and guided by your insecurities not by any form of logic.

January 28, 2008

I was actualluy going to question the diaphram thing to is it more pleasurable than the condom? believe me condoms pull hairs and as a greek i have alot and my girl gets mad when i say i dont feel like having sex

January 28, 2008

Birth Control definitely. Th BC pill has been greatly improved since my time and I took it for six long years without a single problem. If, like a lot of people have already mentioned, you are under thirty-five and a non-smoker,then, it is safe.

You're boyfriend is right. Sex with a condom is,well, just not such good sex.

January 28, 2008

Hi Fray, I read over the debating posts that you and Stargazer did. She's right that we post differently..I'm a therapist and she's an attorney. That's a much different way of communicating. Anyway, I think we are saying the same thing, she's just being more blunt about it.

But, honestly I do agree with her to a certain extent, and I've said that. I think you do have some issues with this relationship. After rereading some of this stuff, the red flag to me is that you are talking about the future, kids, marriage, so soon in your relationship. That's way too much pressure. You breaking up with him like I've said, although you say it's impulsive and I believe that, I think that part of you just doesn't want to be with him. I've had some issues with my bf-I mean everyone does-but I have never once considered breaking up with him. And like I said before, you two are incompatible in this issue about whether or not you use condoms or not. You are considering BC, which is good, but you need to stop this pattern..and it's easier said than done.

You said before that you don't care about using condoms..ok fine that's your preference. But your bf does. And I think you should try to care how he feels, and throughout this whole thread you haven't done that. It's been about "I don't care about good sex, I don't care about not using condoms." I think you'd get pissed off if your bf was complaining about how rediculous and stupid YOU are being. Like I said you need to come up with some sort of compromise. Remember, that in a relationship it's two people trying to make each other happy. And "happy" means being able to see the other's point of view, even if you disagree. And you havn't doen that on this thread, so it makes me question whether you do that with your bf.

Oh I had a qeustion, was your bf a virgin also?

January 28, 2008

Fray -

I commented on your post earlier, but after having read everything before I felt a need to chime in again.

You initial posts made it clear that you were doubting the sincerity of your b/f and his committment to you because he seemed to have said he would prefer to put your health at risk, just to have good sex. That is how you read what he said. Your reaction was to break up with him.

Now you are saying this is all about birth control, and that you and your b/f have open communication with a view toward achieving compromise. To be blunt - I don't believe any of it for a moment.

Your reluctance to go on birth control was totally fair, but totally misinformed. Your latest decision to use a diaphram is equally misinformed. These are all discussions you should be having with your doctor. Your own research on the subject while helpful, and good to prepare for the discussion with your doctor, are never going to be acceptable replacements for an open discussion with your doctor, after reviewing your entire medical history.

I too was a late bloomer, in fact I did not lose my virginity unitl I was 25. AND I too have/had many of the insecurities you appear to have. I know that at 25 I was not ready for a "real" relationship, and no amount of practice with other men helped get me ready for one. Until I dealt with my own issues, I always misinterpreted everything said to me as negative - and always jumped to the very wrong conclusions.

Your story here keeps flip flopping. It feels like you keep altering your focus to try to get everyone here to agree with you. Let's start out by saying that's just not going to happen. It's also not going to be very useful or helpful to you. This is a place where you can get great advice, but only if you are honest and open to hear what is being said.

Finally 2 months is not enough time to know if this man is "the one." Two months should still be the honeymoon period where you are having fun and you are wooing eachother. If the person is your first sexual experience, that holds even more true. It takes a lot more time to see the real person, warts and all.

It is great that he appreciates your being there for him during a troubling time - and that is what you should be doing as his g/f - as he should for you. But again those are not the things that define the relationship. What defines a relationship is the day to day, the normal. To achieve that takes time, and really cannot be rushed.

Reality is your b/f probably did not express that he would prefer to put your health at risk for the sake of sexual satisfaction - that is only how you read what he said. And THAT is the crux of your problem. We all mispeak at some point in our lives - the people that love us know that we didn't mean it as it came out - and see the positive in what we said.

I am not saying it is not possible for the two of you at some point in the future to end up being each others "ones" but I think you have quite a bit of work to do, on YOU, before you are ready for that.

I am not saying this to bash you. I am saying it from my own experience. It took me years of trying on and off to finally find a therapist who could help me overcome all the negative and see the positive. It was not until then that I was able to accept a genuine, loving relationship in my life.

And before you read my posts and tell me you would prefer to be in your relationship vs. mine, as you said all relationships have issues and take compromise and work.

Good luck to you.

Edited January 28, 2008 by curiousnycgirl

January 28, 2008

curiuosnycgirl - thanks for the advice and insight and nice to hear from someone who is also a later bloomer!

Right now I"m just exploring options and the diagram is one of them. I'm going to dicuss with my bf what he thinks of each option. Then afterward I'll go to the gyno to ask for advice and then we'd finally decide on which option we'd try. It's a process.

January 28, 2008

Elswyth and Norajane gave great advice, as far as I'm concerned. Unless you're actively trying to conceive, both partners should use condoms and bc pills, the patch or IUD. If you're worried about the effects of bc, discuss it with your gynecologist.

Relationship drama aside, I don't feel you're selfish or immature for wanting him to use condoms, and it wouldn't be selfish of him to expect you to use birth control as well. I think it's the wrong kind of relationship if you're expected to appease someone else's needs at the risk of your own health. Undetected HPV (and there is currently no test for men) can cause cervical cancer in women. If he cares about his health and yours, you'll both make compromises.

January 28, 2008

Undetected HPV (and there is currently no test for men) can cause cervical cancer in women. If he cares about his health and yours, you'll both make compromises.

Condoms fall far short of protecting against HPV, especially when you are regularly sleeping with someone.

January 28, 2008

About HPV, when does the immunity become effective? I took my first dose about a few weeks ago and I"m still waiting to take doses 2 and 3. Am I immune yet or do I have to finish the course first? Thanks!

O'Malley - thanks for the advice. I feel the same way you do. I don't think I"m irrational in thinking that I don't want to put my health at risk for better sex, and at the same time I don't think my bf is 'bad' either for wanting sex without condoms. And that is why I'm still talking to him and I'm listening to what he's saying -- that is why im going to see a gyn next monday for advice.

lovelorcet - do you mind elaborating a bit more on condoms and the hpv? My gyn said condoms are very effective against hpv but she might not be 100% on this info. Appreciate it. thanks.

January 28, 2008

About HPV, when does the immunity become effective? I took my first dose about a few weeks ago and I"m still waiting to take doses 2 and 3. Am I immune yet or do I have to finish the course first? Thanks!

Are you sure you "took" the vaccine? How did you get it? I don't believe you did, otherwise you'd know the answer to these questions because you can only get it from a doctor after a consultation. First, you don't "take" the vaccine. It's a shot administered by a medical professional. Are you giving yourself the shot? You shouldn't be. Secondly, yes, you have to finish the course before you will be immune to the LIMITED STRAINS of HPV that are known to be correlated to cervical cancer.

Because the vaccine does not protect against all types of HPV, it will not prevent all cases of cervical cancer or genital warts. About 30% of cervical cancers will not be prevented by the vaccine, so it will be important for women to continue getting screened for cervical cancer (regular Pap tests). Also, the vaccine does not prevent about 10% of genital warts—nor will it prevent other sexually transmitted infections (STIs). So it will still be important for sexually active adults to reduce exposure to HPV and other STIs.

January 28, 2008

The immunization does not make you immune to HPV but rather it helps protect you from a few of the most dangerous forms (the common cancer causing forms; I think it is 4 or 5 strains) but there are many more strains of HPV. You are only really protected after the 3rd shot and if your body was able to develop the proper anti-bodies against HPV.

As far as condoms go for protection:

I don't know how you have sex but HVP is transmitted through simple skin to skin contact. A condom only covers the penis so the skin around your genitals can also come into contact with their skin.

Condoms do help to protect without a doubt but they are far from perfect when it comes to HPV or even herpes.

January 28, 2008

Are you sure you "took" the vaccine? How did you get it? I don't believe you did, otherwise you'd know the answer to these questions because you can only get it from a doctor after a consultation. First, you don't "take" the vaccine. It's a shot administered by a medical professional. Are you giving yourself the shot? You shouldn't be. Secondly, yes, you have to finish the course before you will be immune to the LIMITED STRAINS of HPV that are known to be correlated to cervical cancer.

Because the vaccine does not protect against all types of HPV, it will not prevent all cases of cervical cancer or genital warts. About 30% of cervical cancers will not be prevented by the vaccine, so it will be important for women to continue getting screened for cervical cancer (regular Pap tests). Also, the vaccine does not prevent about 10% of genital warts—nor will it prevent other sexually transmitted infections (STIs). So it will still be important for sexually active adults to reduce exposure to HPV and other STIs.

Yea I got it. I went to a gyn a few weeks ago and a nurse gave me the shot. She also 'taught' me how to have sex haha. I have to go back two more times within the next 6 months.

January 29, 2008

And honestly I don't care that sex feels better without a condome for ME, prob because its not a priority for me to have a so called 'great sex life'. I think being able to have sex is important (and I successfully fixed that by going to the gyno if anyone's read my previous posts) but I don't need a pill to make sex better. I think sex as it is now is very satisfying for me already and also alot of my friends also prefer condoms over the pill.

We don't always get exactly what we want in a relationship. Its give and take. Yes, sex might be fine for you the way it is, but your bf stated he is having a problem with it.

And MOST important... You don't understand what is important to your bf or why. You either haven't asked him the right questions, or you just don't realize that he doesn't place the same importance on things as you place on them. Do NOT assume that he feels the same way about sex as you do. Sex is far more important to a man then it is a woman. You will NEVER NEVER hear a man utter these words:

"(it is) not a priority for me to have a so called 'great sex life'. "

You don't understand your bf. Either talk to him and actually listen to what he is saying without getting defensive about it, or leave him. But you just uttered the biggest relationship killer of all time.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Keara

January 29, 2008

I find the things fiddly and offputting!

I highly recommend both of you getting tested by the doctor, hospital or clinic, for me it's a sign of committment to each other - health and fidelity. At that point, go out and get info from professionals about wich method would suit you the best. I personally have an injection every 12 weeks, and that's all the worry gone. No worries about sickness bugs, antibiotics or forgetting a pill. It can however cause a loss of bone density, so I do weight bearing exercise and take calcium.

Alex x

January 29, 2008

Also um (as said in other thread as well), I told him I don't think he's the one when I broke up with him. How the hell do I make up for that? As of now, I don't know whether he's the one or not, I don't know, I said those killer words cuz I'm stupid and impulsive. Ugh.

When we got back together, I never mentioned this 'the one' thing....should I do something bout it?

January 29, 2008

And MOST important... You don't understand what is important to your bf or why. You either haven't asked him the right questions, or you just don't realize that he doesn't place the same importance on things as you place on them. Do NOT assume that he feels the same way about sex as you do.

Sex is far more important to a man then it is a woman.

You will NEVER NEVER hear a man utter these words:
"(it is) not a priority for me to have a so called 'great sex life'. "

You don't understand your bf. Either talk to him and actually listen to what he is saying without getting defensive about it, or leave him. But you just uttered the biggest relationship killer of all time.

I disagree that sex is far more important to a man than a woman. It may be more important to him than to fray right now, but I believe that is because fray just started having sex a couple of months ago and really hasn't experienced "great sex" and that has NOTHING to do with condom or no condom.

Fray, has he ever gone down on you? Does he use his fingers on your clit to tease and tempt and take you to orgasm? Does he use his fingers inside you to reach your g-spot? Have you ever had an orgasm? Does he spend a lot of time teasing and playing, foreplay? Or does he do a little of that and then rush to put the condom on so he can get inside you? Does he make you feel sexy by the way he looks at you and touches you during sex? Or do you feel like the sex is all about him getting off?

Also um (as said in other thread as well), I told him I don't think he's the one when I broke up with him. How the hell do I make up for that? As of now, I don't know whether he's the one or not, I don't know, I said those killer words cuz I'm stupid and impulsive. Ugh.

When we got back together, I never mentioned this 'the one' thing....should I do something bout it?

You've been dating for 2 months and you were a virgin. If he or you expects the other to know whether your are 'the one' after 2 months, that's very naive thinking. Tell him you said that when you were upset with him, but you both really need more time together to really understand what 'the one' even means.

January 29, 2008

My gyn said condoms are very effective against hpv but she might not be 100% on this info.

Actually more recent studies have found a 70% effectiveness rate for condoms when it comes to HPV prevention. Condoms aren't foolproof, but they do provide increased protection. Relationships aren't foolproof either - some people lie by omission, cheat and have unprotected sex without a partner's knowledge. If this guy is stating he doesn't want to wear condoms (instead of both you coming to a compromise) he probably has a history of unprotected sex with past partners, which increases his risks for STDs.

Since you're going to find a lot of debate about this, ask your gynecologist these questions, instead of taking advice (including mine) off the internet. There's also nothing wrong with getting a qualified second opinion about birth control, etc. Be proactive about your health.

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I'm so disappointed in my bf =(

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