SpanksTheMonkey Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) Just a random thought I'm not sure were I stand on it other then its a sad act of course. I mean I guess some people feel so lost and hopeless/hurt in life some times that they almost see no other way. I've seen people say its a cowards way out but I would think it would take allot of nerve to actually go thu with it. Just wondering what others think in general on the subject I hope I haven't offended any one. Hope I posted this in the right section wasen't sure were to put it. Edited January 23, 2008 by SpanksTheMonkey
Jmina Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) I don't think you HAVE any 'nerve' in that state - a lot of people seem to find it easy to talk about it. Alot of people are fine with their own death. What's so nerve racking about taking a bunch of sleeping pills? Its cowardly. Instead of doing everything that can do to put their life back on track they choose to end it all. . I think suicide is just as distressing as murder. someone got killed for preventable reasons, it affects everybody around them and i think there should be much more education about preventing such a horrible tragedy. I know of different people of different ages who have committed suicide or have become close and i feel that each one could have been prevented if only they spoke up. The ones that came through were able to speak up and get things off their chest. that is why things like forums are great because it gets what is in your head out so you have room for direction. its all you need to start with to keep going - direction. and it will come if you give yourself a chance first. Schools should be teaching children life skills on how to vent emotionally, how to gain emotional intelligence, a lot of very smart people with very high IQ's don't make it because they don't have the emotional intelligence. IQ intelligence has its place, emotional intelligence definetley has its place too which is often not even contemplated. It might not save someone elses life in an E.R but it will save many lives in the big picture. On a different wave length but related to suicide. i feel that the paparazzi is a good thing because it keeps a balance. A lot stars self distruct because they cant live up to who they are portrayed to be they buy into the fact that they are up there and higher beings but when the realise they arent they plummet - I believe if there was no papparazi there would a much higher suicide rate. Annoying as they are - it would keep a lot of people on the groud. I know someone will read these posts who has been strongly affected by suicide and i hope i don't affend anybody. I am all for teaching and prevention rather than waiting for it to happen. A part of me also feels that if someone CHOOSES to commit suicide then that is their path and we all have to go with the flow. - lets just try to love, and educate emotionally firstly for ourselves, then for our children. Edited January 23, 2008 by Jmina
lovesparis Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 i think that people who kill themselves will never be truely understood by those that don't. there are a lot of ppl out there who start toting the key phrases "it's just not that bad" and "permanant solution to a temporary problem" after someone commits suicide. and while this is true, it irriates me to no end b/c the ppl who say that do not understand what it is like for the person who sees no solution. people who attempt suicide but do not follow through, are usually crying out for help. people who actually do it, are in a hole of despair so deep that those of us who do not, or cannot, or haven't thought about it, simply will never understand. suiciders cannot see that there is still light in their life, they can't see beyond their immediate problem b/c it is so overwhelming to them. there are many who believe that suicide is a selfish behavior, but to the person who is suiciding, they believe they are doing their family and friends a favor; that their life is that miserable that they simply can't see that they bring someone joy. many times, if someone says they are going to, their family and friends try to talk them out of it using the "you're life isn't that bad" stuff. unfortunately, by the time they get there, they can't see that. and instead of listening to them, and getting help, they end up feeling a load of guilt that the suicider never intended. (i think this is one (of a few) reasons there are so many suicides post suicide.) bottom line: if someone says they are going to do it, they need professional help. b/c they either will do it, or they are asking for help. but please, please, do not condemn the condemned.
lovesparis Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 to add: i also agree with jmina's last statement about accepting one's choice to end their own life. i'm a huge supporter of the "right to die" concept
lino Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 i think that people who kill themselves will never be truely understood by those that don't. there are a lot of ppl out there who start toting the key phrases "it's just not that bad" and "permanant solution to a temporary problem" after someone commits suicide. and while this is true, it irriates me to no end b/c the ppl who say that do not understand what it is like for the person who sees no solution. people who attempt suicide but do not follow through, are usually crying out for help. people who actually do it, are in a hole of despair so deep that those of us who do not, or cannot, or haven't thought about it, simply will never understand. suiciders cannot see that there is still light in their life, they can't see beyond their immediate problem b/c it is so overwhelming to them. there are many who believe that suicide is a selfish behavior, but to the person who is suiciding, they believe they are doing their family and friends a favor; that their life is that miserable that they simply can't see that they bring someone joy. many times, if someone says they are going to, their family and friends try to talk them out of it using the "you're life isn't that bad" stuff. unfortunately, by the time they get there, they can't see that. and instead of listening to them, and getting help, they end up feeling a load of guilt that the suicider never intended. (i think this is one (of a few) reasons there are so many suicides post suicide.) bottom line: if someone says they are going to do it, they need professional help. b/c they either will do it, or they are asking for help. but please, please, do not condemn the condemned. I agree. I use to think anyone attempting/committing suicide is a coward/weak but my opinion regarding that is totally different now.
Jmina Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 woops. posted too early. People coming out with their own stories, bringing understanding and awareness definetely prevents. The heart is always right and compassion and empthay will always help. People will still be angry at the stigma about suicide though, and well if everybody knew what it felt like im not sure that would be a much better place either. Who here has been affected by suicide? Who here has helped somebody? Who has there own story that might help someone else
lino Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 prevention is better of course but I think most times is easier said than done.
Jmina Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 if it was easy then whats the point. life is all about personal growth. The harder the experience the bigger more wholesome and rewarding the lesson. You right it is easier said than done, but i am a willing person. Many dedicate their lives to it.
jdeedee Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I have had one friend who committed suicide, she jumped out of her brother's apartment onto a city street. She was manic depressive, and I guess her meds weren't working right. I don't know, I wasn't the closest of friends with her so it didn't cripple me but it did effect a lot of my close friends, tore them up. I'd be lying if I didn't admit to having considered on more than one occasion (a lot actually) to just driving into a guard rail or lake or whatever recently. Sometimes I feel like it would be so much easier to just end this than to move on/deal with the loss of my ex. ...how selfish is that, right? I mean just because it is over between myself and someone am I that worthless that I feel like my life has no point and I'd be better off dead? Another part of the selfish/greed is the "she will realise how much she misses me when I'm dead"-aspect of the suicidal thoughts. Ugh, I'm making myself sick thinking of all this.
lino Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Who has there own story that might help someone else Don't know if this is what you're looking for but I knew a guy who killed himself & his example is what changed my view. He was a guy who I knew through a friend and that always seemed to me as the person I wanted to be. He was about to start a good career in finance, was someone who always got the girls but then finally settled down with a great girl and everything looked great for him. For a reason not known to me she then dumped him & 4 months later he jumped off a bridge! At 1st I thought drugs but he was apparently never a drug user, he was only on the anti-depressants after his girl left him. He killed himself at 24 and would now be the same age as me if still alive, 27. The way I see suicide now is, that if someone like that can be driven to it, someone who in my eyes has the life that I so badly want, then it must be f*cken near impossible to stop. I could never see myself considering it with how things are for me in my life & definitely not if I lived his life, hell if lived how he did I definitely wouldn't even know what this website is!
lino Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 if it was easy then whats the point. life is all about personal growth. The harder the experience the bigger more wholesome and rewarding the lesson. You right it is easier said than done, but i am a willing person. Many dedicate their lives to it. I agree with all this, believe me. I too use to think anyone killing them self is a weak/cowardly person but after the story I mentioned above and talking to others who have considered it but not done it yet or reconsidered doing it, I have an understanding of how agonizing life must be for someone in order to drive them to do it. I think a big part of it is that they don't see or are no longer able to see things like the way that you mentioned in the section of your post that I have made bold. A suicidal person doesn't see successfully battling through life as a reward anymore because he/she no longer even sees it as an option!
swansong519 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Just wondering what others think in general on the subject. I've heard suicide described as a "Permanent solution to a temporary problem."
marlena Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I've heard suicide described as a "Permanent solution to a temporary problem." Undeniably true and very originally stated!! If more people were to grasp this truth, then, we'd have less suicides. A friend of mine was contemplating suicide after a five year relationship ended very painfully. Her therapist told her to promise to wait a year before acting on her wish. If at the end of that year, she still wanted to take her own life, the therapist said she, herself, would personally see that she got the job done! Of course, a year later, suicide was the furthest thing from her mind!
dropdeadlegs Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Suicide can be looked at from many angles. Some do it because they don't have coping skills. Yes, in many circumstances it seems to be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But can we really know how temporary that souls problems are? Some do it because they truly believe others will be better off without them. They have made grave mistakes, ones that will cause their loved ones pain once out in the open. There may even be a financial gain to the family left behind. Some do it because they have physical pain that cannot be alleviated. They cannot endure a slow painful death and see a quick and maybe painless one as a better alternative. I don't know if it's a selfish act or a brave one. I guess it depends. Success or fame don't seem to have an effect on ones overall happiness and ability to cope. People are participating in slower forms of suicide daily through drug and alcohol abuse, driving erratically, and risky behaviors of a number of kinds. You'd be surprised at how many show suicidal tendencies even though they haven't put a gun to their heads. I would bet that 50% of the population has some sort of suicidal tendency based on psychological tests. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and many are taking the drawn out version versus the quick one.
MakeLemonade Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 My uncle committed suicide about 25 years ago, I was about 10, my aunt had divorced him and they had a 4 year old daughter at the time, my cousin, who I am still close with. He was very distraught over the divorce, he loved my aunt very much and didn't see how he could live without her I guess. She hadn't cheated on him or anything, they just fought all the time and it wasn't working. He came to her 4th birthday party, he was a very passionate and for lack of a better word, "loud" person normally. Everyone of course noticed after the fact, how different he was that day - kinda sat back and watched the scene quietly - very different than usual. He blew his head off with a shotgun at about 4am that morning. He had never said anything to anyone about suicide to anyone that I know of - it was a true shock to everyone. On a completely different side of the spectrum, I also have a good friend, who has had a very difficult life, lots of abuses of different kinds, very little stability, lots of medication and therapists. It gets worse every year - she threatens suicide all the time - but I know she would never do it. I have known her for 9 years and I know, despite how hard things sometimes get for her (she is one of those people that always has a "dark cloud" following them around - we always try to work on her positive energy), that she wants to live, she wants to experience more life, the good and bad. I try to imagine the despair someone would have to be in, in order to actually believe there is no way out, except to decide to end it and then to actually go though with it. There is so much life to live, and we have so much power as individuals to make what we want to of our lives. I know sometimes things get to where they seem hopeless but most of the time they aren't, and things always get better. I wish more people could see that. I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, suicide is one of the saddest things, a life taken is a tragedy, a life taken by self is just such a waste. Be happy everyone, even when you are sad, there is always something you can find to be happy about. Seek out the joy, even if it is just for the blue sky and the food in your fridge. If that is enough for that day, then it is enough until tomorrow.
Florida Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 There are those born with the self desrtruct button and those who aren't. If you aren't, maybe once in awhile you will fleetingly think it, but you will never understand it. Those who have the self destruct button always think about it when certain thought patterns or cycles of misery seem to never end. Either you know it or you don't. Then there is situational suiciders, the ones who think it after a break up or devastating illness. To those ones, they can get through it, like Marlena said. It is the ones who feel it like a friend that accompanies them their whole life that are the most at risk, no convincing will ever help them. Only they can make up their own minds day by day. All I can say is things cycle, the happiness can't last forever nor can the misery. If the misery does last too long, and it is not just situational, get medicated, get therapy. Most suicidal people are averse to taking medication.
Author SpanksTheMonkey Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 Be happy everyone, even when you are sad, there is always something you can find to be happy about. Seek out the joy, even if it is just for the blue sky and the food in your fridge. If that is enough for that day, then it is enough until tomorrow. I know you mean well but I think your one of those Lucky few that never had any real struggle maybe. What if there is no food in the fridge? And you in a abusive controlling situation you cant get out of? Sometimes theres just no sunshine and roses no matter how hard you look. Thanks for the replies on this thread every one interesting views on the subject.
HokeyReligions Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 I'm not against self-termination - depending on the reasoning behind it. If I were diagnosed with Alzheimers - I probably would, depending on what kind (if any) insurance I had at the time. A friend of ours killed herself on New Years Eve about 5 years ago. She was in her mid-30's. She lost her 'one true love' and was depressed, gained 100 pounds, and then found out she had a disease - and it was just too much for her to bear. She was in a city away from her family and any other friends and put a gun to her head. It was devastating to her family and friends, of course, but I thought about her and suicide didn't seem so out of place. I know that sounds cruel, but she did not not know how, or want to, look forward to a time where her life would be about more than merely coping. In that mindset she never would have found a life or happiness, she would have existed to cope. And I thought, well, why live that way? If she was too exhaused from her years of fighting the pain to continue, what better way out for her. It was selfish, but sometimes we have to be selfish in our lives, so why not in our deaths? I didn't say that to anyone of course, because it would have only hurt them more. Her family did not live with her. I don't know quite how to express it, but its different than someone who lives in a house with their family. A person who lives alone, their absence is not going to impact their survivors the same way. Their lives will be empty without her, but their surroundings and day-to-day living did not include her. They wouldn't look around and see where she wasn't, because she hadn't been there in a while. Not like when my kids died - I look around each room and see them, or rather see where they were. I sought out places where they weren't - like work - because I miss them less. Survivors think of the lives they envisioned their loved one having and missing out on, but its not real - its a fantasy. The person would still be living in pain if they hadn't self-terminated. Just as they had been living in pain and their loved ones didn't see it. I'd like to think of my kids as having grown up, found the career they wanted, fallen in love and married and kids and everything. But there is no way of knowing how their lives would have turned out. They could have been miserable (tho I don't think they would have). They died from illness and not suicide though so I can't really compare or imagine how I'd feel if they had ended it on their own. I merely projected my own hopes for them. I think its sad, but I'm not a life-at-all-costs type of person. Sometimes death is the answer.
MakeLemonade Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 I know you mean well but I think your one of those Lucky few that never had any real struggle maybe. What if there is no food in the fridge? And you in a abusive controlling situation you cant get out of? Sometimes theres just no sunshine and roses no matter how hard you look. Thanks for the replies on this thread every one interesting views on the subject. I am lucky now, I have a great husband, wonderful twin boys, just turned 2 and the joy of my life, a great job that I love with lots of wonderful friends there. We just bought a fantastic as-is house for a song and spent two months making it a home before we moved in. For no money down even despite the mortgage "crisis" w/ barely "fair" credit and already have tons of equity in it. I also have a father who was never there, a life-long scientologist who put his cult before his family, my mom left him when I was 2, raised me alone with very little money from him, nor did she make a whole lot, we ate hamburger and noodles more nights than I care to remember and if there was no hamburger then just noodles. Some nights she didn't even eat so I would have more for later in the week. I fell in love at 13 with a boy I would be in a relationship with until I was 18, he was raised in an abusive home and thus there is my abusive relationship. I finally left when him and met a boy/man (he was 21) who was the most fun, loving, sweet boy I could ever have hoped to meet, it was one of the best years of my life. He helped heal many scars from that relationship but many others took a long, long time to heal (some like the bite mark where he took a chunk out of my arm, will never heal.) I have tried to involve my father in my life more times than I can count only to be temporarily made a daughter then ignored for months, years at a time. He proudly made the trip to walk me down the aisle despite the fact that my step-dad paid for everything (they actually both took part in that) and once that glory was gone, he hasn't even made the trip or even showed much of an interest in meeting his 2 beautiful grandsons. I am lucky now, but I worked hard, I have no degree, just 50 or so college credits of no consequence but I have spent 14 years in the same industry and MADE my luck. Your woeful retort sounds like a victim's reply. CAN'T get out of? There is no such thing. Won't. Use the proper word. There are ways to get food in your fridge, there are ways to get out of a bad relationship. You just have to have the courage and the will to do something about it. And I didn't "mean well" I was trying to open up about myself and share some experiences about my life relating to suicide while also offering a positive ending to my post to maybe in some even small way help someone who might be feeling bad about their own life that read it. Your patronizing post pi$$ed me the hell off. If you can't tell. Good luck to you - be strong - there are always ways to change your situation for the better.
Jmina Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 i agree with you lemonade. If people are opening up about making things better for themselves and putting a positive light on something then let it be. I dont agree with basically taking the whole value out of it by suggesting that lemonade doesnt know what shes talking about even though she 'means well'. Sure make it a point if like that a lot of people cant get that look on their life but don't suggest lemonade hasnt had any real struggle or patronzise her. I'm sure you didnt mean to do this on purpose, you dont seem like your wanting to under peoples skin at all, but you do seem like you want people to see whats under yours. . Everybody has their story to tell and opinion and they ALL have a place. Spanksthemonkey you seem to really be stuck on getting your thoughts together about suicide. What really was your point by your thread? because you seem to want to argue the fact that if you look hard enough you can find help. if it was just something to reflect on then why argue any views. sounds like you are right in the middle of a pay off by being the victim. are you? make lemonade are you calling out for help with quite realising it?? Jmina
fabulousgal Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 all i can say about this topic, is that this is not something that someone in the mental capacity to do this can really control. the relief of the emotional weight shadows any reality of percieving what can one do to help themselves. You literally feel as if it is your greatest option. i know, i've been there. it's very hard. you feel like you have no future, not even a week from the day you are struggling. you see yourself as a mass wandering from place to place going through the motions of a human, but meaning nothing. i sympathize wholly with those who suffer from these feelings, and don't have the strength because of a disease to try to hang on to the teeny tiny beam of light that comes from the next room underneath the door they feel has closed on them. I know i clinged to that light more than anything, i'd try to see my family in front of me. its a very gruesome thing, one no one will ever understand until they actually go through it.
MakeLemonade Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 i agree with you lemonade. make lemonade are you calling out for help with quite realising it?? Jmina Thanks for the support Jmina - I might have been a little over the top but DAM, I was just trying to participate in the post. "Mean well" is SO patronizing. I am new here but I am certainly not new to life. I only scratched the surface, we all have crosses to bear, we all have skeletons in the closet. To answer your question, I am really not crying for help, I have no thoughts of anything like suicide, I have too much to live for! I am actually not even quite sure how you got that from what I said, but I certainly appreciate the concern. I really do. My main point I was trying to make is that almost all if not ALL people on this planet have had struggle, some more than others certainly - I certainly did not detail every struggle I have had, I could go on and on, and there are certainly others who's struggles would make my life look like a cake walk I am sure, but it's all relative and I triumph over them, with will and courage and hard work. Life is NOT easy. And being successful in life is 100X harder than just living it. Spanks just made me mad with what she said, I needed to vent a bit. I have worked hard and worked through alot to get to where I am and the happiness I now have, and for someone to minimize it in a couple sentences was just wrong. Thanks for listening.
Jmina Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 No worries makelemonade. I accidently wrote your name instead of spanks. Sorry about that! I am glad to hear your reply none the less Spanks the monkey are you calling out for help? sorry again...
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