rippedup Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 First, we have been separated for a year. We have been working extremely hard at trying to reconcile. While we were still "married," she had what she described as an emotional affair. Without proof, I took her at her word that nothing sexual ever happened. OK, this is going to sound crazy, but right now she is on a trip supposedly bringing "closure" to her relationship with him (he moved back east in Spring). I protested the trip, but short of tackling her, I could not stop her from going. And, oddly enough, due to a flood at my house, I am staying with our kids at her house. I was using her computer the other day, and because I am so concerned over this trip she is on, found myself looking at her emails to Mr. EA. To set the stage, during the time we were still together, she took a couple of weekend trips to supposedly "get her head together." I was OK with that, assuming, of course, SHE WAS ALONE -- AS SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS!! In reading the emails, I learn that she was on at least one of these weekends, and maybe two or three. As you can imagine, I'm seething. However, I also feel guilty about reading the emails. At the same time, she took this current trip against my protests, and knowing how much it would drive me nuts. But her opinion is, basically, that since we're still separated, it's still legit. And, that she needed to do it, again, to get "closure." I also read in the emails where she tells him she loves him and misses him. And, basically, how completely lukewarm she is toward me. Basically, I'm a good guy, a great dad, never slept around on her, have a good job, don't go out drinking with the boys every night, etc. Also, at the risk of sounding immodest, am pretty good looking, frankly, and have not lacked for feminine attention when it was learned I was separated. None of our friends can believe she has left me. But, Mr. EA is dark, brooding, artistic, everything I am not. So, my question is, should I confront her about this, since I did invade her privacy?? But, to me, her transgression is so great as to render mine virtually negligable, in the grand scheme of things. Am I wrong about this?? I so want my marriage to work. It kills me to think of what our divorce would do to our two daughters (12 and 9), but reading these emails leads me to believe it is beyond repair. I would love any thoughts. Thank you in advance. And sorry for the length.
Tripper Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 she took a couple of weekend trips to supposedly "get her head together." I was OK with that, assuming, of course, SHE WAS ALONE -- AS SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS!! In reading the emails, I learn that she was on at least one of these weekends, and maybe two or three. As you can imagine, I'm seething. However, I also feel guilty about reading the emails. At the same time, she took this current trip against my protests, and knowing how much it would drive me nuts. But her opinion is, basically, that since we're still separated, it's still legit. I'd say confront her, RU. You are entitled to know how serious she is about reconciling. Snooping in her email was wrong, you admit it, but I think the bigger issue is exactly what is her game. I don't understand why people don't get it. When you separate it's to get time alone to ponder reconciliation. NO DATING should be the rule. Heck, you're still married. Now if it's separation pending divorce that's a different story, so IMHO it's not legit. Also after a year of separation, it's time to "fish or cut bait". Either she wants to work with you on reconciliation or get a divorce. How long are you supposed to live in limbo??
norajane Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I don't think you need to confront her. I think you need to accept that your marriage is over. Head straight to your lawyer and file for divorce. Maybe print out the emails so you have them to look at when you waver and think you want to reconcile with her. There's no discussion needed about the emails. You know what's in them. You know she lied. And you know she lied so she could see him again while still keeping you on the string and chasing after her. You must realize that she didn't go visit this guy for 'closure'. She took this trip to carry on their relationship. They're still together and they're having sex, not closure. And I think you already know that, because she's lied to you about this guy before, so you know this is exactly the kind of thing she would lie about. I also read in the emails where she tells him she loves him and misses him. And, basically, how completely lukewarm she is toward me.Doesn't this tell you all you need to know about how serious she is about reconciliation? Does that sound like someone who is working hard at reconciliation?
Carpetrider Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Mr. EA is dark, brooding, artistic, everything I am not. Ah, yes, the artist type, the musician type, us normal guys can't compete against that. Dump her. Next gal, check out her background of the type of guys she hangs out with. If they are artistic, run away as fast as you can from her.
torranceshipman Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Hey Ripped Up, I agree with NoraJane...the marriage is over, go file for D. She is really acting badly and doesn't seem serious about the marriage at all and she doesn't deserve any more chances!! You sound like a nice guy so go find someone who is worthy of you! And btw, artistic types 100% do NOT do it for me - bet you are hotter! If your W cant see tha, even more reason to leave her (-;
Author rippedup Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 First, thank you to all who have responded. Based upon the lack of attention paid to the fact that I read her emails, I assume most feel this is not an overly egregious act, considering the current circumstances. Hell, she has done it to me before, for that matter. Am I correct in that assumption? Just to respond to Norajane's message, I have gathered from other emails that it seems she has not slept with him. But I have also gathered that it was based upon HIS putting a stop to it, vs. her feeling it was the wrong thing to do. In other words, she wanted to, but he didn't feel right about it. More important to me, though, is how she feels inside her head/heart. As Norajane said, her actions are not those of someone who is really working on reconciling. And it also sounds to me like she thinks going back to a life with me would be a life of boredom -- but that maybe she has to settle for that. To me, that is insulting, and completely self-absorbed ("he's not making my life exciting enough for me, so it makes me unhappy..."). The idea that after 20 years together things might not always be fabulous and spectacular just somehow doesn't resonate. But somehow a life of steadiness, low-drama, enjoyment of your children, interspersed with doing fun things together as a couple, and as a family, just doesn't make it for her. Point being, do I really want someone who 1) cheats on me and lies about it -- and also accuses me of not being trustworthy about other things (like money matters; which is simply not true and the product of her vivid negatively-charged imagination, which stems from an unfortunate upbringing); and 2) thinks life with me is boring. I have a boatload of friends who think I'm great, a lot of fun, and really enjoy being around me. I know the answer to this rhetorical question, of course. Thank you all so much for your insights and thoughts. I wish you all good relationships that make you happy. I will follow up and fill you in on what transpires.
HoustonScrewed Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 I don't care how hard it is kick her to the curb. I had a very hard time kicking mine to the curb, but it was much harder after I forgave her a few times and let her come back. A slut like that just isn't worth it.
Author rippedup Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 First, thank you to all who have responded. Based upon the lack of attention paid to the fact that I read her emails, I assume most feel this is not an overly egregious act, considering the current circumstances. Hell, she has done it to me before, for that matter. Am I correct in that assumption? Just to respond to Norajane's message, I have gathered from other emails that it seems she has not slept with him. But I have also gathered that it was based upon HIS putting a stop to it, vs. her feeling it was the wrong thing to do. In other words, she wanted to, but he didn't feel right about it. More important to me, though, is how she feels inside her head/heart. As Norajane said, her actions are not those of someone who is really working on reconciling. And it also sounds to me like she thinks going back to a life with me would be a life of boredom -- but that maybe she has to settle for that. To me, that is insulting, and completely self-absorbed ("he's not making my life exciting enough for me, so it makes me unhappy..."). The idea that after 20 years together things might not always be fabulous and spectacular just somehow doesn't resonate. But somehow a life of steadiness, low-drama, enjoyment of your children, interspersed with doing fun things together as a couple, and as a family, just doesn't make it for her. Point being, do I really want someone who 1) cheats on me and lies about it -- and also accuses me of not being trustworthy about other things (like money matters; which is simply not true and the product of her vivid negatively-charged imagination, which stems from an unfortunate upbringing); and 2) thinks life with me is boring. I have a boatload of friends who think I'm great, a lot of fun, and really enjoy being around me. I know the answer to this rhetorical question, of course. Thank you all so much for your insights and thoughts. I wish you all good relationships that make you happy. I will follow up and fill you in on what transpires.
OWoman Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 First, thank you to all who have responded. Based upon the lack of attention paid to the fact that I read her emails, I assume most feel this is not an overly egregious act, considering the current circumstances. Hell, she has done it to me before, for that matter. Am I correct in that assumption? Given that all the advice on that score has been from BS, it's understandable that they feel that the end justifies the means and that the "crime" of invading someone's privacy is offset by the "greater crime" of dishonesty. I've never been a BS so can't identify with that, but I can understand where that perspective comes from. Speaking as a dinsinterested party, however, I'd have been outraged if a guest in my house - ANY guest in my house - snooped into my personal matters like that. I would feel invaded and abused and would have nothing further to do with that person ever, as a fundamental breach of trust would have occurred for me, one from which recovery would be impossible. My space, my privacy, life is sacrosanct to me and anyone who disrespects me in that fundamental way would have no further place in my life. But that's me. I wouldn't have allowed a separated partner into my house to begin with, so the situation would never have arisen. The fact that she did indicates she's less concerned about such matters than I am, so perhaps she'd be more forgiving than I would. But with me, you'd be dead meat.
Leia Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 RU, this must be very hard for you. On one hand, you're so willing to make your M work but on the other, you feel the need to end it after what you have found out. It's not easy but with the emails that you read, it's better to get a divorce. Your kids are better off with you and I am sure they can tell things are just not the same anymore between their parents. It's funny that snooping around IS so damn wrong but being an OW is not. That really cracked me up.
norajane Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 Given that all the advice on that score has been from BS, it's understandable that they feel that the end justifies the means and that the "crime" of invading someone's privacy is offset by the "greater crime" of dishonesty. I've never been a BS so can't identify with that, but I can understand where that perspective comes from. This is such a common mistake among OW - they assume certain advice is given by BS's when it does not agree with their own viewpoint. For the record, I have never been married and am not a BS. I have been the cheater in a long term relationship, and I have also been the OW. And my opinion is what it is.
dbtmarley Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 I know all this is tearing you up inside because it would frickin kill me. It is very obvious she lied to you, so what is to stop her from continuing to lie to you? Accept the fact that you are not a part of her heart no more. Her being deceiving and you thinking about what she did, does, or will do is of no significance to you any longer. The sooner you realize this and accept it, the sooner you will be able to move on. She is not the woman you thought she was and in my personal experience that was my hardest thing to get over when my ex cheated on me. I do not think it's right to snoop, but I have been guilty of doing it myself. In your situation though you needed to know the truth and she was not giving it to you. Did she owe you the truth? In her mind obviously not, but for your own well being you deserved it. Once again proof she no longer cares for you. Watch the kids and give them the love they deserve while she is gone. Be the bigger person and just walk away from her. She deserves no explanation just like she felt you needed none. I know it sounds janky, but I would also leave one of the emails up so she knew I saw it. She would probably say something and then you could look at her like she was crazy just like she did you when you thought she was boinking some artistic, brooding guy...
serial muse Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) Given that all the advice on that score has been from BS, it's understandable that they feel that the end justifies the means and that the "crime" of invading someone's privacy is offset by the "greater crime" of dishonesty. I've never been a BS so can't identify with that, but I can understand where that perspective comes from. Speaking as a dinsinterested party, however, I'd have been outraged if a guest in my house - ANY guest in my house - snooped into my personal matters like that. I would feel invaded and abused and would have nothing further to do with that person ever, as a fundamental breach of trust would have occurred for me, one from which recovery would be impossible. My space, my privacy, life is sacrosanct to me and anyone who disrespects me in that fundamental way would have no further place in my life. But that's me. I wouldn't have allowed a separated partner into my house to begin with, so the situation would never have arisen. The fact that she did indicates she's less concerned about such matters than I am, so perhaps she'd be more forgiving than I would. But with me, you'd be dead meat. I think it's also worth pointing out that RU's wife has been guilty of snooping herself, he says. So she probably wouldn't feel the same way about it. I don't think snooping is unforgiveable - I have both snooped and been snooped on, in the past. When it happened to me, I was annoyed about the snooping, but not furious - there were unhealthy secrets in the relationship, things that needed to be talked about rather than hidden. And they were casting a dark shadow and making my partner very unhappy, and creating tension in the relationship that didn't need to be there. So, I guess I'm saying that I understood, if I wasn't happy about it. When I did the snooping, it was after holding off for a long time, until I couldn't escape the fact that I was being lied to and gaslighted, and I needed to know the truth. This is, ironically, the flip side to the coin of people saying that BS "don't want to know." Instead, I was trying to trust my partner and not be overly suspicious. Seriously, sometimes you can't win. Snooping, in that case, finally told me what I needed to know, so I can't be entirely sorry I did it. He certainly wasn't going to clue me in. So yeah, I don't think that it's a black or white situation. However, I will say that I have since made a conscious decision not to snoop in future, whether I have suspicions or not, because I don't like the way it made me feel and anyway, I don't think knowing the details is the most important part anymore. If I ever get to the point again where I just know I'm being gaslighted - even if I don't know what about - I plan to just walk. For me, I've decided that the gaslighting is a dealbreaker, in a way that snooping really isn't. No one should ever be put in that position in the first place. It's cruel. Anyway, RU, I do think that, now that you've snooped, you've learned enough to tell you that this relationship is over. But one thing you know for sure is that she has lied to you, and isn't sorry about it, and will continue to lie and deceive you. That's a lack of respect and caring that brings you nothing; why should you stay in this relationship? When she comes back, you can let her know that you've thought it over and the relationship isn't what you want it to be, and you want out. You don't need to tell her that you snooped. Edited January 24, 2008 by serial muse
OWoman Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 This is such a common mistake among OW - they assume certain advice is given by BS's when it does not agree with their own viewpoint. For the record, I have never been married and am not a BS. I have been the cheater in a long term relationship, and I have also been the OW. And my opinion is what it is. I think it's also worth pointing out that RU's wife has been guilty of snooping herself, he says. So she probably wouldn't feel the same way about it. I don't think snooping is unforgiveable - I have both snooped and been snooped on, in the past. When it happened to me, I was annoyed about the snooping, but not furious - there were unhealthy secrets in the relationship, things that needed to be talked about rather than hidden. And they were casting a dark shadow and making my partner very unhappy, and creating tension in the relationship that didn't need to be there. So, I guess I'm saying that I understood, if I wasn't happy about it. When I did the snooping, it was after holding off for a long time, until I couldn't escape the fact that I was being lied to and gaslighted, and I needed to know the truth. This is, ironically, the flip side to the coin of people saying that BS "don't want to know." Instead, I was trying to trust my partner and not be overly suspicious. Seriously, sometimes you can't win. Snooping, in that case, finally told me what I needed to know, so I can't be entirely sorry I did it. He certainly wasn't going to clue me in. So yeah, I don't think that it's a black or white situation. OK... it seems I wasn't clear enough about what I meant. I wasn't meaning to dis anyone's view (and sorry NJ - didn't mean to lump you into a category you're not comfortable in). The point I was trying to make is the one SM made more eloquently - that when one is being "gaslighted" or suspects one is, one's views on these things may change, and since I've never been in that position I can't guess how I'd react if I was. That was just to provide a context for the view I was going to deliver (and then did) - it wasn't to dis the views expressed by others, merely to differ. SM I'm not sure that the W having done it herself makes much difference either to how she'd likely react (many people are not consistent in applying the same standards of behaviour to themselves and to others) or how "justifiable" the behaviour is - "two wrongs don't make a right", and all of those cliches. It may help RU in defending his action against his W's accusations, or it might just get him into further trouble if she's in a hostile mood. One can't predict that rationally. But I'd reckon based on the breakdown of trust, as well as the feelings expressed in the emails, that this marriage is not really something the W is committed to. And for those reasons RU would do well to review his plans on reconciliation.
serial muse Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 SM I'm not sure that the W having done it herself makes much difference either to how she'd likely react (many people are not consistent in applying the same standards of behaviour to themselves and to others) or how "justifiable" the behaviour is - "two wrongs don't make a right", and all of those cliches. It may help RU in defending his action against his W's accusations, or it might just get him into further trouble if she's in a hostile mood. One can't predict that rationally. But I'd reckon based on the breakdown of trust, as well as the feelings expressed in the emails, that this marriage is not really something the W is committed to. And for those reasons RU would do well to review his plans on reconciliation. Heh...I completely agree that people who don't mind snooping themselves might see it differently when their own emails are being read. But I was just trying to say that she obviously doesn't see snooping as such as unconscionable, whether or not she'll be irritated and angry about having her own privacy violated. But you're right, it's not rational. Anyway, I also agree with your overall point - whether or not snooping is okay, the trust is broken either way, and RU's wife has made it clear that RU, and this marriage, are not priorities for her. And that's what he needs to pay attention to.
Owl Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 Nothing wrong with my wife reading my emails, seeing my phone invoices, looking at my text messages. Nothing to hide, so no reason to keep it "private". If the poster's wife is "reconciling, but went to see OM for closure"...then they're still married, and he's not a "guest". Personally, I think he's blinded himself in the hopes that things will get better. Closure is a dirty word for "lets continue the affair" the vast majority of the time. Its simply an excuse for one more trip to be with OM. I do say confront. And I say set your boundaries. Make it clear to her that you're NOT willing to remain in a relationship with her if she's going to continue to lie and cheat. That in order for her to rebuild the relationship, she's going to have to rebuild trust...and that means she's going to have to be an 'open book', so that you can SEE that she's no longer lying and cheating. And yes, I'm a FBS (formerly betrayed spouse).
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 Okay, I do not like rosey nosies. Obviously , she trusted him to stay at her place while she was gone. Which was a stupid choice on her part. Now, she is not going to reconcile with you beause you went rambling through her things. You have the right to know what her game is if she tells you. Rambling, only pushes the person further away and then you find yourself alone. If he is the man he say he is' consider yourself a great catch and work on your self esteem. Plenty of women want what you have to offer. So put your cards out on the table and move on. In conclusion, work on a detailed visiting schedule with your kids. That is way for you to move on and still be a great parent and for her to do the same. I'd say confront her, RU. You are entitled to know how serious she is about reconciling. Snooping in her email was wrong, you admit it, but I think the bigger issue is exactly what is her game. I don't understand why people don't get it. When you separate it's to get time alone to ponder reconciliation. NO DATING should be the rule. Heck, you're still married. Now if it's separation pending divorce that's a different story, so IMHO it's not legit. Also after a year of separation, it's time to "fish or cut bait". Either she wants to work with you on reconciliation or get a divorce. How long are you supposed to live in limbo??
jaslene2009 Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 You sound like a great catch with a lot to offer. Offer it to someone who does not take it for grant it. I know you love your children. However, it doesn't take for you to win her back to be a great dad. Please don't snoop in her things. Take it from a woman who has done it and had it done to her. It only makes the situation worse. You know the saying " Seek And Ye Shall Find". Don't tell her you snooped through her emails because she will never trust you in her home alone again. Approach, the situation by asking her what her goals are in the marriage and then tell her what you would like to see happen in order for the marriage to be successful. If you don't get any good results, "GIVE IT UP TURN IT LOOSE ! " First, we have been separated for a year. We have been working extremely hard at trying to reconcile. While we were still "married," she had what she described as an emotional affair. Without proof, I took her at her word that nothing sexual ever happened. OK, this is going to sound crazy, but right now she is on a trip supposedly bringing "closure" to her relationship with him (he moved back east in Spring). I protested the trip, but short of tackling her, I could not stop her from going. And, oddly enough, due to a flood at my house, I am staying with our kids at her house. I was using her computer the other day, and because I am so concerned over this trip she is on, found myself looking at her emails to Mr. EA. To set the stage, during the time we were still together, she took a couple of weekend trips to supposedly "get her head together." I was OK with that, assuming, of course, SHE WAS ALONE -- AS SHE TOLD ME SHE WAS!! In reading the emails, I learn that she was on at least one of these weekends, and maybe two or three. As you can imagine, I'm seething. However, I also feel guilty about reading the emails. At the same time, she took this current trip against my protests, and knowing how much it would drive me nuts. But her opinion is, basically, that since we're still separated, it's still legit. And, that she needed to do it, again, to get "closure." I also read in the emails where she tells him she loves him and misses him. And, basically, how completely lukewarm she is toward me. Basically, I'm a good guy, a great dad, never slept around on her, have a good job, don't go out drinking with the boys every night, etc. Also, at the risk of sounding immodest, am pretty good looking, frankly, and have not lacked for feminine attention when it was learned I was separated. None of our friends can believe she has left me. But, Mr. EA is dark, brooding, artistic, everything I am not. So, my question is, should I confront her about this, since I did invade her privacy?? But, to me, her transgression is so great as to render mine virtually negligable, in the grand scheme of things. Am I wrong about this?? I so want my marriage to work. It kills me to think of what our divorce would do to our two daughters (12 and 9), but reading these emails leads me to believe it is beyond repair. I would love any thoughts. Thank you in advance. And sorry for the length.
bentnotbroken Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 Snooping got me a nice fat divorce settlement and him a nice motel room:D
Tomcat33 Posted February 1, 2008 Posted February 1, 2008 There is something I don't get here!? If she had to go on a vaction trip for "closure" (sorry but when you want to end an affair you don't take a vacation together and if you want to resolve the emotions left behind you sit down and talk about the termination not go away for a romantic getaway) and you now see that she is telling her OM she is luke warm about you but head over heels with him, AND on top of it she is already seperated from you why in the world is she trying to get back with you??? What was your take on why she was coming back to be with you? Once you can answer this then I have a theory on all this...
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