what do I do now..?

[Impudent Oyster]

Well, my view is that I should drive up and tell her all about it.

 

Views?

 

I agree. Look, you've been waiting for four years, how long will you have to wait in the shadows until his children are grown?

 

Are you willing to wait that long?

 

If you tell his wife, you're at least giving HER power over her own destiny. I doubt she'd tolerate a husband who is "staying for the children".

 

Let's assume he really does love you and is only staying for the kids, telling his wife will get rid of all the assumptions and will uncover the truth. Assumption is a dangerous thing.

[Impudent Oyster]

I know, it feels like you are telling him "It's me or your kids".

 

So what's wrong with that? Shouldn't you be as important to him as his kids? OW sell themselves short, that's why they're OW.

 

He would be divorcing their mom, not them. If you believe otherwise you (and I'm not saying this to anyone in particular) are naive and deserve to get strung along.

[marlena]

IO.

 

I hope you are not advising Frannie to tell his wife just to cause her more pain. We all know what usually happens when an affair is exposed. It can get very nasty not to mention dangerous and very painful for all involved parties. Is this what you want to happen?

 

And please, please tell me you're not hoping she'll get thrown under the bus! You are too nice to want something like that to happen. Right?

Edited January 23, 2008 by marlena
spelling

[Impudent Oyster]

IO.

 

I hope you are not advising Frannie to tell his wife just to cause her more pain. We all know what usually happens when an affair is exposed. It can get very nasty not to mention dangerous and very painful for all involved parties. Is this what you want to happen?

 

And please, pleae tell me you're not hoping she'll get thrown under the bus! You are too nice to want something like that to happen. Right?

 

No, I didn't finish reading all the posts.

 

I'm afraid she's just going to continue to be this guy's tool. She can't just "do nothing".

 

She has two choices, one, tell the wife and find out her true value, find out the truth, that this guy cares more about himself and maintaining the status quo than he does about her, or;

 

Making the decision to speak to him once and tell him that she deserves more. She will not wait another 4 (or however) many years as the OW. She won't see or speak to him until he's divorced. When he's divorced he can give her a call and maybe if she's free, she'll talk to him.

 

There is NO WAY she should waste another minute of her life waiting around for a married man. Isn't four years wasted long enough?

 

With either option the assumptions are over and she'll finally get the truth. Who knows, maybe he really does love her and will do the right thing. Maybe he'll stop lying to his wife and kids (because he is cheating them as much as he's cheating his wife, good fathers don't lie to their families).

Edited January 23, 2008 by Impudent Oyster

[marlena]

Making the decision to speak to him once and tell him that she deserves more. She will not wait another 4 (or however) many years as the OW. She won't see or speak to him until he's divorced.

 

 

Much better option than telling his wife, I think.

[Impudent Oyster]

IO.

 

I hope you are not advising Frannie to tell his wife just to c

Much better option than telling his wife, I think.

 

I agree, but I don't have a lot of faith that she'll be able to do it. You know, because he really, really loves his kids and is such a great dad that he has no choice but to lie to his wife and string Frannie along for years and years and years...it's not his fault, he's not a bad guy, he's just a victim of circumstances.

[marlena]

You know, because he really, really loves his kids and is such a great dad that he has no choice but to lie ................ it's not his fault, he's not a bad guy, he's just a victim of circumstances.

 

I'll just pretend I didn't read this!

[Impudent Oyster]

I'll just pretend I didn't read this!

 

Was I too subtle?

[overandout]

IO.

 

I hope you are not advising Frannie to tell his wife just to c

 

 

I agree, but I don't have a lot of faith that she'll be able to do it. You know, because he really, really loves his kids and is such a great dad that he has no choice but to lie to his wife and string Frannie along for years and years and years...it's not his fault, he's not a bad guy, he's just a victim of circumstances.

 

 

Let's face facts shall we IO; I like yout irony.

 

He doesn't want Frannie full time and never has. She is always the one resuming things after going NC.

He is a cake eater, she doesn't like it, realising that she has basically been used and is now looking to turn her anger on someone; the bs is a good starting point.

He has told her the affair is over when he decided he didn't want to leave.

That is nearly a year ago.

 

Last October, Frannie told him she didn't want to be the OW, hoping it would make him choose her. He didn't.

If he wanted out of his marriage, he can take the decision and walk. Kids do survive divorce.

She can walk away like several OW have decided to do, with some dignity when faced with the same scenario.

He might just be softening the blow when he says he wants to be with Frannie in several years when the kids have left home.

He doesn't want out of his marriage. He is a coward and using the "kids" excuse is callous; he used to be happy to spend half the week away from his precious kids.

 

Frannie effectively ended the affair last October.

She doesn't have to speak to the guy. It is her choice to allow contact if he has something important to say. She is leaving the door ajar. He is a man and will try to sneak in through the crack.

Why tell the bs now?

Why after 3 months?

 

Just because things are not going Frannie's way, why should she tell the bs. The man has already laid his cards on the table.

She chooses to listen to his drivel.

Frannie is dispensable; his kids are not. She should listen to his excuse.

It boils down to the fact that he is not that in love with her and that he will not change his life to be with her.

 

END OF

Edited January 24, 2008 by overandout

[Meranna]

So what's wrong with that? Shouldn't you be as important to him as his kids? OW sell themselves short, that's why they're OW.

 

He would be divorcing their mom, not them. If you believe otherwise you (and I'm not saying this to anyone in particular) are naive and deserve to get strung along.

 

I completely agree with you, however, let me explain this a bit. In some cases the OW is just as important to the MM as his kids are. He stays "for the kids" because he doesn't want to be away from them, only seeing them every other weekend or whatever the courts decide visitation to be. So, yes, in a way you are asking them to choose between the OW and their children. To go from tucking them in at night and playing with them during the day EVERY day, to only being able to do so occasionally. Of course he should have thought of this before engaging in an affair, but what's done is done.

 

However, it sounds like in Frannie's situation that her MM is using this excuse as a way to stay in the marriage without looking like the bad guy.

[PLAYBRAT]

Personally..I am opposed to telling the BS. Why should she suffer for the MM actions. What harm has she ever imposed on the OW aside from being married to the MM? That is like coming home and kicking your poor dog because YOU had a bad day at worK. WTF did it do to you????? It will NOT understand........And just may turn on you the next time you decide

you're in a "mood'. Please....put the blame where it belongs. On your A and the MM.

 

Come on on now.The W does NOT deserve this, and we ALL know it.As far as the W knows, all is status quo. Maybe she is a wonderful person who is being deceived by a complete two timing loser. Do you think telling her this is going to change HIM?? Or your situation?? No. It is only going to destroy a totally innocent person............who thinks they seemingly have a pretty stable home life and marriage. Don't be jealous of then BS for this.......be angry with the MM............HE put ALL of you in this predicadment.

 

My suggestion if you MUST tell her...tell her out of concern and NOT malice. Do not do it to destroy her or hurt her...but because you are going to end the A once and for all. NOT so you can get what she has. THAT is the worst possible reason..............

[Impudent Oyster]

I completely agree with you, however, let me explain this a bit. In some cases the OW is just as important to the MM as his kids are. He stays "for the kids" because he doesn't want to be away from them, only seeing them every other weekend or whatever the courts decide visitation to be. So, yes, in a way you are asking them to choose between the OW and their children. To go from tucking them in at night and playing with them during the day EVERY day, to only being able to do so occasionally. Of course he should have thought of this before engaging in an affair, but what's done is done.

 

However, it sounds like in Frannie's situation that her MM is using this excuse as a way to stay in the marriage without looking like the bad guy.

 

Well you'll forgive me if I can't summon even one ounce of empathy for the poor, poor MM who wants to play the good dad and tuck his kids in every night while still having an OW at his beck and call, dutifully keeping his dirty little secret.

 

Yanno what, SCREW HIM. Where does it say that he gets to lie to two women, lie to his kids and then look like the wonderful husband and father? Too bad that this little boy doesn't get everything he wants at the expense of his wife, his children and an OW who believes his BS.

 

He can suck it up, I'm sure he'll get over it when he finds someone else to sympathize with his horrible predicament.

[woe_is_me]

Well, here I am asking for advice. Don't faint. I've done it before.

 

Four or something less years of an affair. And I know he loves me, I am absolutely sure of that. And I know he wants to be with me. But he has this thing about his children. Only none of you believe it, but imagine it were true...

 

I want you to imagine this is true...

 

Imagine a man who does not love his wife, loves his children. He finds a woman he does love... and who loves him. Only he feels that he should be there for his children. He will stay with them until they are grown and then be with the woman he really loves...

 

... you might not believe it. But imagine it is true. And YOU are the OW.

 

What would you do? And if you were the BW... would you want to know..?

 

All comments accepted. Only do comment on if the scenario is true, not whether you believe in its veracity or not. I know it IS true... so I want to know... if it WERE true.... what would you do or want?

 

 

Sorry i haven't read anything apart from your original post...

 

I watched a mafia documentary not long ago..and do u know what they said in it???

 

That a married italian or mafioso man is more upest about being caught cheating...than actually cheating????

 

Whoa..my xMM was maltese ..im sure they think along the same sort of lines....

 

They just don't care!! Only about what everyone they know will think when they get busted

[JamesM]

As always when we get into discussions regarding cheating, we have two issues here.

 

First, we have Frannie's situation. To this I have been responding. She asked that we not get into the discussion of whether or not she is right in having or continuing the affair. She asked for us not to decide whether she should tell the W based on our experiences. She simply asked...if you were me with my opinions and experiences, then what would you do?

 

Second, we have the outside looking in opinion regarding should she tell and should she continue the affair.

 

Both have different answers.

 

That is why I can say that based on her past, I can say that telling the W will cause her MM to leave. And discontinuing the affair will cause the MM to leave. But if she wants the affair to continue in hopes that he will leave his wife when the children are out of the house, then she should trust him (an oxymoron here, I know) and not tell the wife.

 

However as a guy looking in with my opinions, then I say the wife deserves to know what is going on and the MM should be dumped. The likelihood that he will leave his wife when the children are gone is slim. He is just avoiding the inevitable confrontation. And the wife should be told, because she needs to know before she gets any older that her husband has been lying to her for these past years. She deserves to have a good life. Is she part of the reason for the affair? Will the family get hurt? Probably yes to both, but the reality is cheating has consequences.

 

So, for those who want to help Frannie in the way she requested, the first situation is what we should focus on. But if you think that you can give her more help by rephrasing the questions, then the second situation is what should be answered.

 

IMO, Frannie simply wanted answers to the first situation as she knows that the affair is probably detrimental to her future.

[JamesM]

 

That a married italian or mafioso man is more upest about being caught cheating...than actually cheating????

 

Whoa..my xMM was maltese ..im sure they think along the same sort of lines....

 

They just don't care!! Only about what everyone they know will think when they get busted

 

Uh, actually I could hazard a guess that 99.9% of all MM who cheat are more upset about being caught than the hurt they cause. Maybe after they wake up from their fantasy, they change, but the fact is...it is getting caught that is the big fear...certainly not the guilt of breaking the marriage vow.

[marlena]

And the wife should be told, because she needs to know before she gets any older that her husband has been lying to her for these past years. She deserves to have a good life.

 

This, to me, reads like a fairy tale.

 

There is no knowing if her life will get better once she finds out the truth. It may well kill her - figuratively speaking. She may never,ever find another to share her life with. She may fall into deep despair and never come out of it. More than likely, she will stay and accept his infidelity.

 

Anyway, I care about Frannie because it is Frannie I know. If she sticks to NC, she will get over this. She's free and needs, more so than MM or BS, to reach out for a life of happiness.

 

Telling his W is counter-productive and senseless! It may expedite the end of the affair but at a high price for all concerned.

[CAT100]

Personally..I am opposed to telling the BS. Why should she suffer for the MM actions. What harm has she ever imposed on the OW aside from being married to the MM? That is like coming home and kicking your poor dog because YOU had a bad day at worK. WTF did it do to you????? It will NOT understand........And just may turn on you the next time you decide

you're in a "mood'. Please....put the blame where it belongs. On your A and the MM.

 

Come on on now.The W does NOT deserve this, and we ALL know it.As far as the W knows, all is status quo. Maybe she is a wonderful person who is being deceived by a complete two timing loser. Do you think telling her this is going to change HIM?? Or your situation?? No. It is only going to destroy a totally innocent person............who thinks they seemingly have a pretty stable home life and marriage..

 

I really disagree with most of the above post..

 

1) The fact is that the MM is already causing the BS suffering by cheating, regardless of whether she actually knows, I mean it must be causing an impact on the relationship somehow

 

2) If the BS is a 'wonderful person' who is 'being deceived by a complete two timing loser' surely she deserves to know!!!??

 

3) Telling the BS may not change the MM and may not change the siutaion for Frannie. But it will enable the BS to make up her own mind about whether she still wants to be in the M or not!

 

4) The BS is an innocent party in this, yes, and this is why I really hate the thought of her carrying on blissfully unaware, spending her life with someone whos heart is elsewhere! She deserves better than that surely!! Its awful that her H loves someone else & has been lying for 4 years but unfortunately that is the reality of the situation & I think its awful that she is totally unaware & wasting her life on someone who cannot be trusted!

 

5) The BS needs to know, IMO. And for 1 reason only- she may have NO IDEA of this affair & she deserves happiness with a H that will not cheat. If she was to find out she may not want him anymore. She may feel shes wasted 4 years of her life on a marriage that was full of lies & deceit.

If she then decides to work on the M then good luck to her. If she wants to divorce & find a man that wont cheat then good luck with that too. Whatever the outcome, she is his WIFE and she should not be kept in the dark about a secret her H has had for 4 years, I do believe that that is really wrong

[JamesM]

This, to me, reads like a fairy tale.

 

There is no knowing if her life will get better once she finds out the truth. It may well kill her - figuratively speaking. She may never,ever find another to share her life with. She may fall into deep despair and never come out of it. More than likely, she will stay and accept his infidelity.

 

 

But she will have at least had the choice to make. As we know now, she lives in supposed ignorance to the fact that her beloved husband is torn between two woman.

 

Yes, you are right. The outcome may not be pleasant. But what about the outcome if the MM stays with Frannie until the children leave? Then the MM says one day, "Uh, honey, I have been with another woman for the past ten years, and now I want a divorce." Will the pain be less?

 

Like I said, there are two ways to look at this....from Frannie's view or the objective view. And then there are different ways that Frannie can deal with this...that is why she is looking for answers.

[serial muse]

Frannie, do come back when you can, and let us know you're okay. I'm pulling for you...

[greengoddess]

Anyone wondering if she went ahead and told the wife and we are going to hear about them in the news soon?

 

Affairs suck.

[carrot10]

This is from the kids point of view-You don't say how old the kids are now but this is what happened in to my cousin. My uncle was having an affair with woman for 20 years. I always thought my uncle and aunt had the perfect marriage and my cousin had best home. My family is very close and we grew up together. I am 37 shes 39. Anyway, my uncle told them about the affair in 1996. He had been with this woman for 20 years!! Everything in my cousin's life was shattered. Everything she believed in while she was growing up, was now all lies to her. She is STILL bitter about it and its been 12 years since my uncle left. He married the woman and moved cross country. My cousin hasn't spoken to him since. He has never seen his 2 grandsons and probably never will. It is very sad. The staying for the sake of the kids doesn't always work out. They will find out about this one way or another. It will damage their relationship and their self esteem. Just my imput because I've seen it.

[marlena]

But what about the outcome if the MM stays with Frannie until the children leave?

 

You and I both know the likelihood of this happening is practically zilch. It is a much regurgitated excuse that all MM use.

 

The best thing for Frannie would be to cut him off completely and let him come back to her when and if he divorces his wife. Out of his own free will and desire to be with her. Pure and simple.

 

"If you love somebody, let them go, for if they return, they were always yours. And if they don't, they never were." Kahil Gibran

[JamesM]

 

I want you to imagine this is true...

 

Imagine a man who does not love his wife, loves his children. He finds a woman he does love... and who loves him. Only he feels that he should be there for his children. He will stay with them until they are grown and then be with the woman he really loves...

 

... you might not believe it. But imagine it is true. And YOU are the OW.

 

What would you do? And if you were the BW... would you want to know..?

 

All comments accepted. Only do comment on if the scenario is true, not whether you believe in its veracity or not. I know it IS true... so I want to know... if it WERE true.... what would you do or want?

 

 

Marlena, my answers have been based on this scenario by Frannie. As she asked, I did not evaluate the reality of it. I simply answered this situation as she presented it.

 

You and I both know the likelihood of this happening is practically zilch. It is a much regurgitated excuse that all MM use.

 

The best thing for Frannie would be to cut him off completely and let him come back to her when and if he divorces his wife. Out of his own free will and desire to be with her. Pure and simple.

 

I agree with you, because we are both assuming that the above scenario is false. But Frannie believes it to be true. So, if I was Frannie and believed it to be true, then I would suggest that she stay with the MM and wait until he is ready to leave. I would not tell the W because then he will never be able to wait until the children are gone.

 

Do I believe the scenario to be true? According to Frannie, this should not be relevant to the answers I give.

[marlena]

James,

 

I get where you are coming from. This was the premise of Frannie's post and I admittedly violated it.

 

Let me try to reset my thinking.

 

Which isn't hard to do, as four years ago, I was of Frannie's mindset.

 

I know that I mustn't use my own experience (or the experience of others) as a dictum but it is so hard not to do.

 

For what is life but the total sum of experiences that we glean from it?

 

But I will try, knowing, like you perhaps, that I am fully belieing myself.

 

If she truly has faith that he will one day come to her, or that she is content with things the way they are, then, yes, she should abide by what she believes and take whatever degree of joy she can by being his mistress .

 

If, however, she is plagued by the even the faintest shadow of a doubt, if her waiting is costing her her own piece of mind, if she is expecting more, then, she herself renders her premise null and void.

 

I based my posts on her own admissions of wanting to put an end to it all.

[PLAYBRAT]

I really disagree with most of the above post..

 

1) The fact is that the MM is already causing the BS suffering by cheating, regardless of whether she actually knows, I mean it must be causing an impact on the relationship somehow

 

2) If the BS is a 'wonderful person' who is 'being deceived by a complete two timing loser' surely she deserves to know!!!??

 

3) Telling the BS may not change the MM and may not change the siutaion for Frannie. But it will enable the BS to make up her own mind about whether she still wants to be in the M or not!

 

4) The BS is an innocent party in this, yes, and this is why I really hate the thought of her carrying on blissfully unaware, spending her life with someone whos heart is elsewhere! She deserves better than that surely!! Its awful that her H loves someone else & has been lying for 4 years but unfortunately that is the reality of the situation & I think its awful that she is totally unaware & wasting her life on someone who cannot be trusted!

 

5) The BS needs to know, IMO. And for 1 reason only- she may have NO IDEA of this affair & she deserves happiness with a H that will not cheat. If she was to find out she may not want him anymore. She may feel shes wasted 4 years of her life on a marriage that was full of lies & deceit.

If she then decides to work on the M then good luck to her. If she wants to divorce & find a man that wont cheat then good luck with that too. Whatever the outcome, she is his WIFE and she should not be kept in the dark about a secret her H has had for 4 years, I do believe that that is really wrong

 

 

 

I understand why you feel this way Cat....I really do.

I think a lot of BS's who found out their spouses was having an A

say they would like to have been told, but does being told by

the AP make it any easier? Does it make the hurt any less damaging?

I think if the A is to be brought to light it should be done by the cheating spouse.

 

This is not meant to put Frannie down, but what's the purpose of telling his W after FOUR years? It was her choice to pursue the A for that long.

Why all of a sudden the need to tell her? It just seems like the intent is more out of malice than just concern. If she truly wants to end the A and HURT the MM then

walk away and cut off all contact with him. THAT will probably hurt him more than anything else. He has NO control over Frannie.....only Frannie does. And even if she does decide to tell the W, it could have the opposite effect of her intent.

 

Does the W deserve to know? Of course she does....I am not saying that.

But I personally think it's the intent behind telling her. I could see spilling the beans after a short affair...but this was a FOUR year A. If she was concerned about the W's feelings....or his M then what's the point of doing it NOW? Four years is no drop in the bucket...and no one twisted her arm and made her stay.

 

I know this is a touchy subject...but that is just MY personal opinion.

Edited January 24, 2008 by PLAYBRAT