whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I don't know exactly... but she doesn't know about me, doesn't know he loves me. When she says, oh MM how will it be when the children are gone, he says... well I will take up golf. She needs to know. JMHO It's your choice, but think long and hard of the real reasons why you want to tell her. There's a reason why he's never told her about you, how he feels about you, and why he is still in the marriage with her. Again, this has nothing to do with his love for you - But it has everything to do with him having his cake and eating it, and keeping his two worlds apart and not colliding. He WILL suffer big time and that is why things are the way they are now. He isn't being malcious, he's being selfish in that sense, as well as doing what is best for his kids. He knows that as soon as his wife finds out about you and the affair, everything will change, and maybe not in a good way for him. The family unit won't be under one roof, the kids will be torn apart for a while and from what you've said so far, it seems he doesn't want to do this to his kids. Too bad he didn't think of all this before entering into the A with you. He has handled this all wrong.
Art_Critic Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I don't know exactly... but she doesn't know about me, doesn't know he loves me. When she says, oh MM how will it be when the children are gone, he says... well I will take up golf. She needs to know. JMHO So is really truly living a double life.. not good... Have you ever spoken to him about this ?.. I mean.. he must think you are dumb to believe that he live a double life and still think you believe that he will actually dump his wife.. I don't think he will dump his wife after the kids are grown.. he is living a real double life.. She doesn't know he is cheating on her and she believes that he still loves her.. This is a toughie.. I don't know what I would do.. most likely call him on his BS.. make him stop living the true double life...
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Once again though, thoughts of telling MM's wife is never there at the start of the A, so that's why I disagree here. It isn't up to the OW to tell the wife, it's his marriage, his wife. If frannie tells it will do more harm than good, especially since this situation is so painful. WWIU, I usually agree with you on not telling the W... However, in Frannie's case, I think if she feels she must do it, then perhaps she should...Four years is a long time...Not like the short-term A's that we so often hear about here...Maybe it is time for the W to know what her H has been up to all this time... I don't know...All I do know is that Frannie is not impulsive and always thinks things through and analyzes every angle...and if telling the W will benefit her in some way, then she must do that... I do not see her telling the W for an ulterior motive...I see her telling the W so that she can move on...
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I mean benefit in the sense of getting through it...Not getting the MM...
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 I do not see her telling the W for an ulterior motive...I see her telling the W so that she can move on... This is it, GEL... I need to move on. I feel that she does need to know... he does not love her. And he is doing her wrong. And all would be better if he told her. But he can't ... because he loves his children... and that means he cannot leave. I do believe that. And if it were true... would you all BS not want to know it..?
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 This is it, GEL... I need to move on. I feel that she does need to know... he does not love her. And he is doing her wrong. And all would be better if he told her. But he can't ... because he loves his children... and that means he cannot leave. I do believe that. And if it were true... would you all BS not want to know it..? As a BS I would want to know. And no one is stopping you from seeking absolution for your sins. 4 years is a long time to live with such a burden by being a man's mistress.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 As a BS I would want to know. And no one is stopping you from seeking absolution for your sins. 4 years is a long time to live with such a burden by being a man's mistress. No one is stopping me. Not even him. I told him a week ago I would tell her... he did nothing, and said nothing. I have ended it in respect of seeing him, but he still says he wants to be with me and us to be together one day... I can't live with that. I want him out of my life or in it. None of this.
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 No one is stopping me. Not even him. I told him a week ago I would tell her... he did nothing, and said nothing. I have ended it in respect of seeing him, but he still says he wants to be with me and us to be together one day... I can't live with that. I want him out of my life or in it. None of this. Good for you, go get started with your new life.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Good for you, go get started with your new life. How do I do that?
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I feel that she does need to know... he does not love her. But that is what he tells you. Honestly, you don't know 100% for sure if that is true or not. Because of his double life, him not telling her about you, or fact that says he's unhappy, she probably doesn't have a clue! Or, he is totally lying to you about that and his marriage isn't half as bad as he's made it out to be.
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 lol. Go NC Go to the gym Get a life Focus on hobbies and pusuits that you love. Move on as if he never existed, work through your issues with this man. You deserve better.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 If I were MM, I would simply continue on like he is doing. Why? Because its easier that way. W has no idea, and OW enables it. So why disrupt the status quo? If I were BW, I would definitely want to know. That way I could get my ducks in a row in terms of planning for a future without stbxH. If I were OW, I would do whatever is necessary to end the limbo regardless of the outcome.
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 How do I do that? By posting here, getting support, reading nofoolin's thread about NC and also seeking some counselling. And by talking to your closest friends and family.
Mustang Sally Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Frannie - I feel for you in your tough situation. But, as I understand what you've posted on this thread, you are contemplating telling his wife and "outing" him in order to force his hand (presumably in your favor), is that right? If that is correct, then I would advise you to very carefully consider all the possible outcomes from such an action. It's a rather underhanded way to go about getting him to commit to you, don't you think? If you really love and respect him, would you want to have to resort to such actions to achieve what you think the eventual outcome will be? You are much, much better than this, I believe. I agree with OldEurope. Leave him. You deserve better, no matter how much he loves you. You still deserve better.
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 No one is stopping me. Not even him. I told him a week ago I would tell her... he did nothing, and said nothing. That is an odd reaction. I don't know what to say to that one.. What is weird though, if he is saying his kids are everything to him, you'd think he would be reacting by telling you NOT to speak to his wife, as he would want to protect his kids. Isn't that the reason why he's still with his wife? Kind of blows away what he's told you so far...Which makes me think he Is just loving the double life.
overandout Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Frannie says that she hasn't seen her mm since October. He has told he that he isn't leaving home. He has not led her up the garden path. Frannie chose to stay going from a "happy" OW to a very miserable OW in the space of a few months. I would not settle for a mm saying that he will leave when the kids have left home; to me it would be a sop and show that he doesn't love me enough--read ol europe's thoughts. If he wanted to he would follow through to be with you NOW. All OW/OM suffer when the affair ends if they really love(d) the mp. I think the withdrawl symptons for Frannie are harder than most because she regularly saw her mm for 4 or so days during the week. It was an established state of affairs (no pun intended) and now it has gone. It is a huge chunk of her life almost snuffed out leaving her reeling and wondering what it was all about. Frannie, I think that if you look back at your earlier posts, you have generally advised against the OW telling the bs. I think you want to tell her now because you are hurting like mad and you want to make her suffer, with the slight hope that she will kick him out and you will get him by default. You don't want to admit it. but I think there may be some hope that this will happen. You think that your mm needs a little nudge and once he has left home it will be fine--he just can't see it or is scared to take the risk. You don't need to crush her life to end the affair with him. You just tell him not to call you--change your number if needs be-all the usual things to show you are serious about it ending. But you have been emailing him and then there was a phone call so you have allowed it to progress from a PA to an EA. He is still in your life, only in a way it is worse because he talks to you from afar and you can't look him in the eye. He is also managing to live his life without you physically in it. I am not going to rehash what I think of him etc, but I am a bit worried if he still reads this forum and sees what you are contemplating. As OW we are the outsiders in the marriage and the bs has no say in things. If he had left home then his wife would be reeling from his actions and she would be the one missing him (she may still love him and he may still love her) despite what he tells you. So if you want it over then do it by cutting him out of your life so that you don't have to listen to him telling you that he loves you but he can't be with you for a very long time (and can you trust that will happen anyway?). He is where he wants to be and if he is working things out at home, then what good will it do to tell his wife? Do you want him to hate you and look at you as rather desperate? If you tell him to leave you alone, and he refuses than that is a different scenario but at least give him the chance to show that he can walk away and more importantly, stay away. He has been as honest as he can with you, and told you he is staying put. Anything that may happen is years ahead. You have to admit that the affair is over and you have to move on yourself but personally I do not think the bs has to or should know. He has hurt you but you will not feel better by hurting someone else who really has done you no harm. I fear that he only ever wanted to enhance his life with you and not change it. You have the power to end it once and for all without involving anyone but him. That will be your best "ending" in the circumstances.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 That is an odd reaction. I don't know what to say to that one.. What is weird though, if he is saying his kids are everything to him, you'd think he would be reacting by telling you NOT to speak to his wife, as he would want to protect his kids. Isn't that the reason why he's still with his wife? Kind of blows away what he's told you so far...Which makes me think he Is just loving the double life. Personally I think he did not say 'dont do it' because... he would not do it himself... but he want it to 'happen'. But I have no clue. I think I am going to tell her. I don't know what else to do. I just need to be out of this.
overandout Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Personally I think he did not say 'dont do it' because... he would not do it himself... but he want it to 'happen'. But I have no clue. I think I am going to tell her. I don't know what else to do. I just need to be out of this. Frannie, You really think that he is almost pushing you to do his dirty work for him? Deep down he wants you to tell her so that someone else makes the decision for him? What sort of stong ,decisive person would he be in your life? Really how does this tally with him being unable to leave or unwilling to leave his children? You seem to have made up your mind and I just hope that you can deal with the fall out. From what I have read when the bs finds out, the mm makes out the OW is obsessed with him and is pursuing him etc. It often pushes the married couple together, united against the "unhinged" OW as he will make out. The drama will continue for you because you will wonder what effect your telling the bs has had on the marriage.
Mustang Sally Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Frannie, You really think that he is almost pushing you to do his dirty work for him? Deep down he wants you to tell her so that someone else makes the decision for him? What sort of stong ,decisive person would he be in your life? Really how does this tally with him being unable to leave or unwilling to leave his children? You seem to have made up your mind and I just hope that you can deal with the fall out. From what I have read when the bs finds out, the mm makes out the OW is obsessed with him and is pursuing him etc. It often pushes the married couple together, united against the "unhinged" OW as he will make out. The drama will continue for you because you will wonder what effect your telling the bs has had on the marriage. Exactly what I was getting at when I said to "carefully consider all the possible outcomes" from such an action. Of course, on the other hand...it would certainly force...well...something to happen, wouldn't it? Maybe Frannie feels too much in suspended animation at the moment? But I certainly agree with the point of: what kind of man is it that can't make this sort of decision/take this sort of action for himself? Is that really someone that would make a good partner down the road? I dunno. I don't think it would be for me, anyway.
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I think I am going to tell her. I don't know what else to do. I just need to be out of this. Take more time to think frannie. I know you want it over and out of desparation, you think telling her will somehow magically make this all go away, him go away and you'll get closure to move on. Problem is, the drama and fallout that will happen afterwards. She WILL want to talk to you, and if it is true, what you've said about her being abusive, are you sure you want to deal with her? Your MM is a wimp then and has no balls to do the right and proper thing. He may love his children, but right he loves himself more.
serial muse Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) Frannie, I have a great deal of respect for you, from what I little I know of you from your posts. You seem like a smart, caring lady, who's been as patient as anyone could ask for in this situation. As a former BS, I have always said I'd want to know. So I'm in favor of anyone telling the BS, because to my own certain knowledge NOT all BS know when an affair is going on, whether or not they realize that their marriage is in dire straits, and if someone wants to inform them, I guess I'm glad about that. The thing is, what you said about him not stopping you from telling her worries me. As I'm sure it did you. I suspect you're right; part of him wants you to do it. I don't think you want her to suffer, and I do believe that you really just want this to be over, one way or another, and turning on the light after four years of living in the shadows feels really...final. But of course it won't be. As much as it may feel like a huge relief, that relief will be temporary. Might not even last more than a day or two. If he is secretly hoping you do this, that makes you the fall guy. I don't mean he's thinking that consciously, just that yes, he'd be letting you take the heat, whether you stay together or not. And that means that if he does leave his wife, then when - not if - he begins to feel overwhelming guilt about his kids, and regrets that a decision was made, you'll feel the full brunt of that. And even if you say to yourself, okay, I'm the strong one, he can't bring himself to do it but I can do this for us - well, what does that ultimately bring you? Uncertainty, pain, doubt, guilt - of which he will share very little. If your motive is to save yourself - and that's a good motive - then I'm not sure this will bring you any less pain in the long run. (Unless, and this is a big unless, your intention is to tell and then walk away anyway. But I'm not sure that's what you want either.) You're in a no-win situation here, I'm afraid. As often as I say, yes, please, tell her, I have to tell you that I don't think telling in this case is good for you. (I still believe, as I generally do, that it would be good for her. But that's not really the issue at the moment.) Even if he leaves as a result, you'll feel the weight of his guilt and regret, and of your own worries about whether you should have done it; but worst of all, from your point of view, you'll have doubts about how much he really wanted to leave on his own. He's putting you in a terrible position. He really is. I believe that this man loves you, and wishes things were different. But he's asking you to make all the choices in this situation. And that leaves you with all the responsibility. You don't want that, do you? He should have to take responsibility for his own choices, not shift it onto you. That's not a sustainable way to live and be secure and happy. He's created an untenable situation for all parties. I wish his wife were free of this quagmire, too, especially since she probably doesn't even know it exists. But you, at least, have the ability to free yourself. This is a situation where it truly feels like the only way to win is not to play. To walk away from it completely, because there is no security, no finality, no true happiness, in provoking someone to do something when he won't muster up the courage to do it himself. I think OldEurope's right: ...My dear....You break it off with him. You just do. He has to find a place for you in his life that gives you a sense of reassurance and security as much as he is trying to do for his children. Edited January 21, 2008 by serial muse
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 That was an awesome post SM.. frannie, I just thought of this while reading SM's thoughts to you.. If he is secretly hoping you do this, that makes you the fall guy. I don't mean he's thinking that consciously, just that yes, he'd be letting you take the heat, whether you stay together or not. And that means that if he does leave his wife, then when ...IF... Let's say you tell and his wife kicks him out, and he begs you to back. What about his kids? What about his (ex) wife, as she will be around forever because of their kids... This is why, atleast for now, you need more time to think things through. So many variables are involved here and things could change in any direction, good and bad..
norajane Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I am saying. I want to tell her what has been going on. Is that pre empting his loving action to me..? Is it being fair to her..? What is it.. I need guidance. I would not tell her. Not because of any of the reasons that OW are usually told not to tell BS anything... I want to be with a MAN. And my definition of a MAN is someone who owns his sh*t, someone who is strong enough to be honest and take care of his life AND me, someone who doesn't need me to do his dirty work. You know the best thing is for a man to talk to his OWN wife, the mother of HIS children, and tell her what's what. If I have to do it FOR him, sorry, but he doesn't have the integrity or balls to be considered a MAN in my book. And that's also why I would walk away from him. If he can't man up and take responsibility and do the hard work necessary for us to be together, then he's not man enough for me. You've done your part, frannie. You've waited for him for years. Now it's his turn to do his part. If he can't do it, he's not worthy of you.
imstunned Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I dont have any words of wisdom, but as somebody who was so hugely supportive of me I just wanted to send you a virtual hug x I hope you can figure out whats best for you to do. xx
norajane Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Personally I think he did not say 'dont do it' because... he would not do it himself... but he want it to 'happen'. But I have no clue. I think I am going to tell her. I don't know what else to do. I just need to be out of this. You don't need to tell her to be out of it. You are telling yourself that will give you the impetus you need to accept that things are over, that it will slam the door shut and make it easier for you to walk away. You know what? It won't. It will open up a new can of worms to think about..and wonder...what will his wife do? will she kick him out? will they get a divorce? will he come to you then? And thus the hope will live on within you, and will not allow you to truly close out this chapter of your life. You have ended relationship with men in the past, perhaps even relationships where you still loved the man. How did you do that even though there was no wife to tell anything to? You did it by deciding the relationship was bad for you, that he wasn't the kind of man you could build a life with, and you bit the bullet and walked away. It's the same thing here. You can't be together not because of his wife or his children, but because of who HE is, the kind of man who cannot and will not do the hard work to be with you. The belief and acceptance that you have come to the end of the road is what will ultimately get him out of your heart and mind, not telling his wife.
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