frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) Well, here I am asking for advice. Don't faint. I've done it before. Four or something less years of an affair. And I know he loves me, I am absolutely sure of that. And I know he wants to be with me. But he has this thing about his children. Only none of you believe it, but imagine it were true... I want you to imagine this is true... Imagine a man who does not love his wife, loves his children. He finds a woman he does love... and who loves him. Only he feels that he should be there for his children. He will stay with them until they are grown and then be with the woman he really loves... ... you might not believe it. But imagine it is true. And YOU are the OW. What would you do? And if you were the BW... would you want to know..? All comments accepted. Only do comment on if the scenario is true, not whether you believe in its veracity or not. I know it IS true... so I want to know... if it WERE true.... what would you do or want? Edited January 21, 2008 by frannie editing
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Well, my view is that I should drive up and tell her all about it. Views?
OldEurope Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Frannie, We love your posts here and I enjoy keeping up with your story... ...My dear....You break it off with him. You just do. He has to find a place for you in his life that gives you a sense of reassurance and security as much as he is trying to do for his children. He cannot expect that the woman he loves should put up with such an insecure situation. I know he loves you. And you love him. I also know of a situation where an OW was proposed to after "the kids were gone" and they married...she was 60 years old. 60! And they still married. I do not think you want that... I am not trying to spook you but he has to be fair. You have been there for him four years and that is enough. It is time for him to go to bat. He will follow through when he cannot, under any circumstances, live without you. xo OE
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 OldEurope... I don't think there is a poster on here I respect more than you. And you know that (and know that I was sami). I read your posts when I first came here. He and I knew... you spoke sense. I have been here another few years... trying and trying. I want you to advise me now. Please if you can, tell me what to do... but listen to my arguments.. because i need to do what is right. But ... I have broken it off from him. What more can I do..? I did four months of NC the year before last. I don't want to WAIT any longer. I don't feel he can do this. I don't feel that he can actually tell her he needs to end it. And I want OUT of this. Either he tells her, ends it with her... OR it is over with me. This is not fair on me and I want it to be over.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 I am saying. I want to tell her what has been going on. Is that pre empting his loving action to me..? Is it being fair to her..? What is it.. I need guidance.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 If I were the OW, I would not stay...I think we are talking about several more years, right? I would not stay because even though I would admire that he feels so strongly about his children, I would feel it is a form of hypocrisy to say you can't leave their mother but you can cheat on her because of your love for them... I would say that I love you and I love that you love your children, but this is my life and I'm not going to waste it waiting around for you for several more years...What about college, marriages, grandchildren...Always an excuse to stay for love of the children...and I'm not arguing that it is not valid or noble etc. I just wouldn't believe that it would ever happen and that would eat away at my love for him... Now as the BS, I would already know that my M was crumbling...I would choose not to stay in it...I know this for a fact because I was in that situation...I did not need anyone to tell me what was going on, it was right under my nose...That's why I think some people are ok with status quo because it requires no change...Life continues with no one the wiser... I would want my MM to know that I would end my R with him and never look back if he chose to continue status quo...That if whatever was keeping him there was more important than our R, then that's fine, but I wouldn't be waiting around...And of course I'm talking a reasonable amount of time, not like the next-day type time frame... Mostly, I'd want to see him fight for me, be strong for me and show me that "us" is important to him...And if he really believes that the only way to be a parent is to be in home with no love between the man and woman then maybe we aren't as compatible as we thought... That's just my opinion... (((FRANNIE)))
Meranna Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I can't really give you advice on what to do because I'm in the exact same situation, just tack a few more years onto it. I just know when I'm ready I'll be able to move on, I've tried before and I just can't handle it yet, too many other things in my life, it would be too much stress on me and I'll break. My marriage was on the rocks for years until one day something happened and it was the final straw, it was so easy then to just say it was over, I had finally had enough..........I think that time will come with my MM too. I'm just hoping it doesn't get to that point. YOU will know when you are ready.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 I feel that I am ready to move on. I am. But the last time we spoke, he said that his view of the future had not changed: that he wanted it to be him and me... him and me... ... HOW do I move on from that?
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I am saying. I want to tell her what has been going on. Is that pre empting his loving action to me..? Is it being fair to her..? What is it.. I need guidance. Frannie, you know I never advise telling the W...But I think that you must do what you must do... If telling her is what you feel will end this A either way, then maybe you should do that... There's nothing fair about this situation...I don't know if she'd want to know...and I don't know what you think telling her will accomplish... It will probably end your A for good...She will either kick him out or they will come to some sort of reconciliation... I just caution you to opening pandora's box because you're not making him face his choices in life... From what you've said about him and even his own thread here, he doesn't want to make a real decision...His decisions are by default-things happen because of his indecison... I think that if you need to tell her, then you should tell her...She might be thankful, she might freak out and she might have known deep down...But she will know for sure...Just think about the aftermath and whether you can deal with that... GEL
malaclypse Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Imagine a man who does not love his wife, loves his children. He finds a woman he does love... and who loves him. Only he feels that he should be there for his children. He will stay with them until they are grown and then be with the woman he really loves... If he really loves his children, he would want them to grow up in a healthy household, not one based on a lie. He would want them to have happy parents, because if the parents don't love each other, the children will know. He would want to show his children that people, especially family, should be open and honest with each other. Therefore, even if we accept that he only loves his kids, not his wife, his staying with his wife does not make much sense.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I feel that I am ready to move on. I am. But the last time we spoke, he said that his view of the future had not changed: that he wanted it to be him and me... him and me... ... HOW do I move on from that? Then you need to make him understand that that future is a fantasy if he does not give you what you need... He seems to think that you'll just wait around indefinitely...He needs that image shattered...It's not fair to you and it's not fair to his W...
Art_Critic Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Is the wife also staying just for the children or does she think he still loves her ? to me it is important to know this.. because if the wife was also on the same side as he then the chances of it turning into a real relationship are in your favor. If the wife isn't and believes that he loves her then I would say that you need to say goodbye to him as your chances of having him in the future are nill. He would then be telling you one thing and her another.. by saying goodbye you are showing him that he can't have his cake and eat it to...
Meranna Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I know, it feels like you are telling him "It's me or your kids". That's really what it is in their eyes. I know what other people will tell you to do, break it off and go NC, but it's so hard to do that. If you say you are ready then that's what you need to do, So the question is: Are you ready to do that? Are you ready to say this might be the end of your relationship? Not, "Will this be the way to make him see how much we are meant to be together, will this scare him enough to leave." Again, I'm probably the worst one on here to give you advice, I just want you to know I understand what you are feeling. I've realize I can't use the NC tactic to force him to leave, instead, I know I'll be able to use it when I AM able to leave.
Meranna Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I think that if you need to tell her, then you should tell her...She might be thankful, she might freak out and she might have known deep down...But she will know for sure...Just think about the aftermath and whether you can deal with that... GEL GEL always knows exactly what to say This is your question that needs answered before you can move any further.
StillConfused Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I hope you don't mind me giving you an advice... Sometimes we don't see everything clearly when we're in love. I am sure that your MM loves you and he feels torn between his children and you. But I don't think it's fair to you that you have to stand by until he decides that his children are grown enough... I think children suffer as much as their parents do an unhappy relationship. My parents were unhappy. They argued a lot. My sister and I would cry that they would even talk about a separation. They never did. Unfortunately. I say unfortunately because,now, 20 years down the line I wish my mom had found another man and be happier. And I wish I did not have to live through this. My sister got married at 17 by escaping from home cause she had had enough of our parents arguing. And my sister is now unhappy. I left home when I was 16 going very very very far away just to be on my own and not to have to deal with this on an ongoing basis. Overall I feel that I am happy because I achieved many things along and I formed my character. But, girl, what a mess I was. it took me years to get over some of the insecurities and I still struggle with them sometimes. Frannie, tell your man that he's not making anybody happier. He's hurting everybody: himself, you, his children, his wife... Happiness cannot be based on lies no matter whom he's lying to. Maybe he's telling the truth to you but he's lying to his wife and his children. You and him will never be happy with that. His children will never be happy. Why does his wife not have a right to know the truth and be happy with somebody else while she's several years younger and has more choices to find her own happiness alone or with somebody else? If I were her, I would want to know the truth. While I don't usually think that it's right to tell the BS about it, I think you should confront your MM and tell him that if he loves you he has to choose being with you because this is the single right decision that he can make for everybody: himself, you, his kids and his wife. And also, tell him that if he has no balls, you are going to tell his wife on a specific date, let's say end of February or end of March? Don't give him much more time. If he replies to you that he'd rather not see you any more than you tell his wife, then walk a way. You don't need him in your life. It's not fair for you to love so much someone who's ready to through you away like this...
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Well, here I am asking for advice. Don't faint. I've done it before. Four or something less years of an affair. And I know he loves me, I am absolutely sure of that. And I know he wants to be with me. But he has this thing about his children. Only none of you believe it, but imagine it were true... I want you to imagine this is true... Imagine a man who does not love his wife, loves his children. He finds a woman he does love... and who loves him. Only he feels that he should be there for his children. He will stay with them until they are grown and then be with the woman he really loves... ... you might not believe it. But imagine it is true. And YOU are the OW. What would you do? And if you were the BW... would you want to know..? All comments accepted. Only do comment on if the scenario is true, not whether you believe in its veracity or not. I know it IS true... so I want to know... if it WERE true.... what would you do or want? 4 years of your life wasted all because you decided to hang onto a man who will not leave his wife, who is allegedly abusive. If she was so abusive and whatnot he could have gotten divorced. You just the piece on the side of his marriage, recognize it for what it is. If you want more for yourself find you a single man and do things the right way.
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 It sounds like your MM has put his kids first, before his own happiness and that's a very unselfish thing he's doing. Sacrificing (sacrifixing) and giving up certain things FOR his kids. For that, it just shows how much he loves his kids and wants to keep them under one roof with his family intact. BECAUSE of that, he probably owes his marriage a shot to make it work. The question remains, do you continue the A, be the OW or do you walk away, live your life, let go. Or, do you walk away and get together with him once his kids are grown. Sounds like you have alot of soul searching to do and I know this is probably killing you inside.. Does his wife know you exist? Or has the A been hidden from her for those 4 years?
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 OldEurope... I don't think there is a poster on here I respect more than you. And you know that (and know that I was sami). I read your posts when I first came here. He and I knew... you spoke sense. I have been here another few years... trying and trying. I want you to advise me now. Please if you can, tell me what to do... but listen to my arguments.. because i need to do what is right. But ... I have broken it off from him. What more can I do..? I did four months of NC the year before last. I don't want to WAIT any longer. I don't feel he can do this. I don't feel that he can actually tell her he needs to end it. And I want OUT of this. Either he tells her, ends it with her... OR it is over with me. This is not fair on me and I want it to be over. Then end it and let him go. If he misses you enough and realizes that maybe he can still be a good father to his kids, even if he divorces his wife, then maybe he'll change his mind. But HE needs to figure that out on his own without you telling his wife and deciding for him. I am saying. I want to tell her what has been going on. Is that pre empting his loving action to me..? Is it being fair to her..? What is it.. I need guidance. It's up to him to tell her..I know you want to tell so hopefully she will kick him out and the choice will be made for him (and you), but if that backfires, he could still choose not to be with you even if you tell her. He may resent you for telling his wife. He's told you he can't and won't leave because of the kids. That has nothing to do with you or what he feels for you, I believe from what you've said he DOES love you Frannie, it's just that he puts his kids lives first. It's something that won't ever change...With or without you in his life. I feel that I am ready to move on. I am. But the last time we spoke, he said that his view of the future had not changed: that he wanted it to be him and me... him and me... ... HOW do I move on from that? I don't know. But somehow you will get through it. If you feel ready to let go, then do just that and ask him to leave you alone, to respect your choice because it isn't fair on you if he wants you in his life as the OW and you want more than that. He cannot continue to have his cake and eat it too.
bentnotbroken Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 As a person who was betrayed, I would consider telling the w. But like GEL said, know which door you are about to open and be prepared for what is about to come through. I could say that you placed yourself in this position, but it appears you have already come to that realization and you are just looking for the next step. You have a chance to make somthings right, not just for yourself, but also for the wife. But make sure you are strong enough for which ever way it goes.
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 While I don't usually think that it's right to tell the BS about it, I think you should confront your MM and tell him that if he loves you he has to choose being with you because this is the single right decision that he can make for everybody: himself, you, his kids and his wife. And also, tell him that if he has no balls, you are going to tell his wife on a specific date, let's say end of February or end of March? Don't give him much more time. If he replies to you that he'd rather not see you any more than you tell his wife, then walk a way. You don't need him in your life. It's not fair for you to love so much someone who's ready to through you away like this... The problem is, (and I could be wrong) but chances are if she threatens him like that, there's a good chance he will end it with her completely and resent her. He's told her that he won't leave because of the kids, so if frannie tells his wife, in hopes that it will shake things up, enough that he'll leave his wife, it will affect the kids more than you know. If MM's wife IS abusive, then you know for sure the kids will suffer..
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 The problem is, (and I could be wrong) but chances are if she threatens him like that, there's a good chance he will end it with her completely and resent her... I cannot see Frannie threatening him...You don't threaten people you love... If Frannie needs to tell his W, it's for her...I really don't think she ever alluded to telling him so that his W will kick him out...That is the misconception about OW, that they want to tell so by default they win...Instead they want to tell the W so that the situation does not go on...It effectively ends it for good because it is out in the open...The secrecy is no longer there and they cannot go back to the A, because there is nothing to go back to...It is a built-in no contact... Anyways Frannie, I don't mean to speak for you at all...I understand and hope that you find peace in whatever it is you choose to do... GEL
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Is the wife also staying just for the children or does she think he still loves her ? to me it is important to know this.. because if the wife was also on the same side as he then the chances of it turning into a real relationship are in your favor... I don't know exactly... but she doesn't know about me, doesn't know he loves me. When she says, oh MM how will it be when the children are gone, he says... well I will take up golf. She needs to know. JMHO
whichwayisup Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I don't mean threaten in a malcious mean way, I meant more if she tells him what other poster suggested: And also, tell him that if he has no balls, you are going to tell his wife on a specific date, let's say end of February or end of March? Don't give him much more time Then he will FEEL threatened. Sorry if I misused my words there.. If Frannie needs to tell his W, it's for her...I really don't think she ever alluded to telling him so that his W will kick him out...That is the misconception about OW, that they want to tell so by default they win...Instead they want to tell the W so that the situation does not go on...It effectively ends it for good because it is out in the open... Once again though, thoughts of telling MM's wife is never there at the start of the A, so that's why I disagree here. It isn't up to the OW to tell the wife, it's his marriage, his wife. If frannie tells it will do more harm than good, especially since this situation is so painful.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 It sounds like your MM has put his kids first, before his own happiness and that's a very unselfish thing he's doing. Sacrificing (sacrifixing) and giving up certain things FOR his kids. For that, it just shows how much he loves his kids and wants to keep them under one roof with his family intact. BECAUSE of that, he probably owes his marriage a shot to make it work. The question remains, do you continue the A, be the OW or do you walk away, live your life, let go. Or, do you walk away and get together with him once his kids are grown. Sounds like you have alot of soul searching to do and I know this is probably killing you inside.. Does his wife know you exist? Or has the A been hidden from her for those 4 years? I won't continue the affair. But I dont' want to wait for him. I want to live my life and let go. His W does not know anything, as far as I am aware. I do not want to wait for him, I want this to be over.
Author frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Then end it and let him go. If he misses you enough and realizes that maybe he can still be a good father to his kids, even if he divorces his wife, then maybe he'll change his mind. But HE needs to figure that out on his own without you telling his wife and deciding for him. It's up to him to tell her..I know you want to tell so hopefully she will kick him out and the choice will be made for him (and you), but if that backfires, he could still choose not to be with you even if you tell her. He may resent you for telling his wife. He's told you he can't and won't leave because of the kids. That has nothing to do with you or what he feels for you, I believe from what you've said he DOES love you Frannie, it's just that he puts his kids lives first. It's something that won't ever change...With or without you in his life. I don't know. But somehow you will get through it. If you feel ready to let go, then do just that and ask him to leave you alone, to respect your choice because it isn't fair on you if he wants you in his life as the OW and you want more than that. He cannot continue to have his cake and eat it too. We will not have the affair any longer. I don't want it, and he knows it is crushing me. We have not seen each other since last October. But I need it to be over. I am ready for it to be over. I know I can do NC... but I don't want to. I don't want to go through hour and day, week and month of this. I suppose, telling his wife will be an end to all that pain for me..
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