smartgirl Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I don't know what kind of response I expect from this. Maybe just someone to commiserate with. I feel that I have covered some very spirtual, philosophical, practical, intellectual and relational turf over the last couple of years. First when my H was having the A and I only vaguely suspected something wasn't right and then since I found out and we started talking and working on our relationship. But it has been so long and I still don't feel healed from this. He was the most honest, ethical person I ever knew and if he is capable of this kind of betrayal then who can I trust? I worshipped my father and found out when he died unexpectedly that he had been having a 15 year long affair and manipulating my mother, our family and his friends to keep it all going. He always went on and on about the importance of honesty. What irony! I understand people are not perfect. But I just can't stand the idea of being lied to over and over by the people I need to believe in. I know we all have personal needs and can't live our lives totally to the expectations of others. But is honesty really too much to ask? Maybe it is. Maybe I am the unrealistic one. But this sometimes feels like too much to bear. I want to forgive. I believe with all my heart in forgiveness and second chances. But if I couldn't believe these two most important people in my life, what value does trust have?
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 We all want honesty, but how can honesty exist if there isn't a safe emotional environment where a spouse can practice it without getting punished? How many spouses can truthfully say that they share their inner most secret thoughts, feelings and desires with each other? Not many I would venture to say. For example, if a wife finds herself attracted a male co-worker, what are the chances that she is going to tell her husband if she's afraid that he is going to react in a negative way? What does it say about her trust in her husband? There can be no honesty without trust and trust is often the first casualty long before an affair materializes. If we want honesty from our spouses then we have to show them that it is safe for them practice it.
Cobra_X30 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I went through this as a child. Time can heal the wounds... but the scars are permanent!
Elilmomma Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 From my personal experiences I believe that you never really recover from the betrayal. As they say you forgive but you never forget the pain and disappointment. When someone you love and trust more than anything in this world betrays you in such a way it's very hard to get past that. So yes I do believe you are scarred for life.
Trialbyfire Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Each deep negative experience a person has in life, changes their perception of how to react to situations. Perhaps it's best not to blindly trust anyone.
Florida Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) I grew up in this environment, I will honor my parents to the death, but it really messes you up. Looking back, every phone call, every question, the silences at the dinner table were all heavy with suspicion. a conversation with me to mother: Me: mom, I thought we were going to the grocery store, why do you keep circling this block? her: sssshh, we'll get there soon. I just need to check something. a conversation with dad: dad: You're goddamn mother was supposed to be back hours ago! Go to your rooms, I don't want to see any of you now! a conversation between mom and dad: mom: honey-why aren't you picking up the phone? dad: No-don't get it, sit down. mom: but someone keeps calling and hanging up on me, maybe it is a bad connection. dad: Forget about it, I'm sure it's no one important. mom: gets silent, hear them fighting later in the night. Yep, that was my life. It runs deep, a lot of mystery still remains, truthfully I don't want to know more than I already do. Hopefully I'm wrong about most /some of it. Unfortunately not all. No wonder I am a critical suspicious mess of tension and pre-emptive strikes. Edited January 21, 2008 by Florida
Mr. Lucky Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 No wonder I am a critical suspicious mess of tension and pre-emptive strikes. No one has to be a "victim" of their past. All of our parents were flawed individuals (some obviously more than others) but doesn't adulthood give you a chance to make your own choices? Should you choose to mirror your parent's mistakes, that's on you - not on them. Just my opinion... Mr. Lucky
Florida Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I want to forgive. I believe with all my heart in forgiveness and second chances. But if I couldn't believe these two most important people in my life, what value does trust have? The value trust has it that it is a gift you give to someone who seems to earn it. If that trust is broken through any kind of cheating, there can be no forgiveness or second chance. The gift of trust stays intact and is not distorted, it can be given again, but not to the one who hurt/betrayed you!
Florida Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 No one has to be a "victim" of their past. All of our parents were flawed individuals (some obviously more than others) but doesn't adulthood give you a chance to make your own choices? Should you choose to mirror your parent's mistakes, that's on you - not on them. Just my opinion... Mr. Lucky Of course I agree in theory Mr. Lucky, but I am a suspicious and cautious person to the utmost as a result. How can one not be? On a side note-because you may not know from my brief post-I am also against cheating or any kind of betrayal of that nature, because I understand the deep harm committed onto all involved. People should know their kids DO pick up on any off situations.
harleygirl92156 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Betrayal wounds the heart, the wound is very slow to heal and the wound leaves a scar, a scar that remains forever. Now it is up to you how long you allow the wound to fester and how deep you allow the scar to get. As far as everyone you trust in your life letting you down, honey, that is just life. You can not go through life putting unrealistic expectations on people. The people we love and trust are not perfect and some time they let us down. We set up the expectations and sometimes they just dont live up to them so we are let down, too bad, but a fact of life. In turn, we do let others down also. Now with that said, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a spouse to be faithful. BUT even though we love and trust them, they can let us down in the most hurtful way possible. When that happens we are wounded. It is our choice if we give the wound healthy attention, unhealthy attention or no attention. A wound given healthy attention will heal quickly and leave a small shallow scar. A wound given unhealthy attention or no attention will fester, and become infected. It will eventually heal, but will leave a larger deeper scar. Such is the wound left on our heart by a cheating spouse. If you are cut deeply you seek medical attention. If you heart is wounded deeply, you will most likely need professional help in the healing process, that is healthy healing.
Trialbyfire Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Now with that said, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a spouse to be faithful. BUT even though we love and trust them, they can let us down in the most hurtful way possible. When that happens we are wounded. It is our choice if we give the wound healthy attention, unhealthy attention or no attention. A wound given healthy attention will heal quickly and leave a small shallow scar. A wound given unhealthy attention or no attention will fester, and become infected. It will eventually heal, but will leave a larger deeper scar. Such is the wound left on our heart by a cheating spouse. This is true to an extent. It's also reliant on personality type and how many coping tools the individual has or has access to. Myself, I cauterized my wound. Too bad friendly fire can sometimes scorch the CS and OW too. Oh well, we all live, learn, and burn, don't we?
Author smartgirl Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Betrayal wounds the heart, the wound is very slow to heal and the wound leaves a scar, a scar that remains forever. Now it is up to you how long you allow the wound to fester and how deep you allow the scar to get. As far as everyone you trust in your life letting you down, honey, that is just life. You can not go through life putting unrealistic expectations on people. The people we love and trust are not perfect and some time they let us down. We set up the expectations and sometimes they just dont live up to them so we are let down, too bad, but a fact of life. In turn, we do let others down also. Now with that said, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a spouse to be faithful. BUT even though we love and trust them, they can let us down in the most hurtful way possible. When that happens we are wounded. It is our choice if we give the wound healthy attention, unhealthy attention or no attention. A wound given healthy attention will heal quickly and leave a small shallow scar. A wound given unhealthy attention or no attention will fester, and become infected. It will eventually heal, but will leave a larger deeper scar. Such is the wound left on our heart by a cheating spouse. If you are cut deeply you seek medical attention. If you heart is wounded deeply, you will most likely need professional help in the healing process, that is healthy healing. I know there is something to what you say about putting our expectations on other people and then being disappointed when they don't live up to that. I hate it when other people do that to me :-) Sometimes I think the person I am angriest at is myself for being so trusting in the first place. There were signs there when the A was going on but I didn't recognize them because I just didn't believe my H would ever do something like that. I hate that I was so easily fooled.
Frances Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Sometimes I think the person I am angriest at is myself for being so trusting in the first place. There were signs there when the A was going on but I didn't recognize them because I just didn't believe my H would ever do something like that. I hate that I was so easily fooled. I can relate to what you are saying. I would never have expected my h to have the long term EA he had or any affair for that matter. It just goes to show you that there is hardly anyone you can trust. I think a scar will always remain. We may be very good at concealing it and this of course may be responsible for it never completely healing as we never give it the air it requires to heal.
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Sometimes I think the person I am angriest at is myself for being so trusting in the first place. There were signs there when the A was going on but I didn't recognize them because I just didn't believe my H would ever do something like that. I hate that I was so easily fooled. I can relate to what you are saying. I would never have expected my h to have the long term EA he had or any affair for that matter. It just goes to show you that there is hardly anyone you can trust. I think a scar will always remain. We may be very good at concealing it and this of course may be responsible for it never completely healing as we never give it the air it requires to heal. I can relate to this as well but I know that I should have made the effort to talk to my ex-wife about my suspicions when they first emerged. Not that it would have necessarily stopped her from having her multiple affairs but it would have at least brought things out in the open much sooner and possibly made the divorce less bitter. Oh well, we live and learn don't we?
Mr. Lucky Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 It just goes to show you that there is hardly anyone you can trust. I hope you don't live your life this way. You can't love (or be loved) unless you make yourself vulnerable, it's part of the package. Wish there was another way, but it's all part of the journey. Got to get back up on the horse that throwed 'ya... Mr. Lucky
Frances Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I hope you don't live your life this way. You can't love (or be loved) unless you make yourself vulnerable, it's part of the package. Wish there was another way, but it's all part of the journey. Got to get back up on the horse that throwed 'ya... Mr. Lucky That was the trouble, I was vulnerable I trusted him with my life for 38 years, no way did I ever think he would ever be capable of breaking that faith I had in him. For the first 24 years that I knew him he kept that faith and then that all went out the door. It was all quite innocence at first just a friendship where he helped her, I would not have objected to him doing that if I had known about it but I would have been able to advice him of when he should have backed off. Because there was no sex involved he will still not admit he had an affair . From reading a large number of the emails I know it was an emotional affair.
IamASelfishSOB Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I don't know what kind of response I expect from this. Maybe just someone to commiserate with. I feel that I have covered some very spirtual, philosophical, practical, intellectual and relational turf over the last couple of years. First when my H was having the A and I only vaguely suspected something wasn't right and then since I found out and we started talking and working on our relationship. But it has been so long and I still don't feel healed from this. He was the most honest, ethical person I ever knew and if he is capable of this kind of betrayal then who can I trust? I worshipped my father and found out when he died unexpectedly that he had been having a 15 year long affair and manipulating my mother, our family and his friends to keep it all going. He always went on and on about the importance of honesty. What irony! I understand people are not perfect. But I just can't stand the idea of being lied to over and over by the people I need to believe in. I know we all have personal needs and can't live our lives totally to the expectations of others. But is honesty really too much to ask? Maybe it is. Maybe I am the unrealistic one. But this sometimes feels like too much to bear. I want to forgive. I believe with all my heart in forgiveness and second chances. But if I couldn't believe these two most important people in my life, what value does trust have? Perhaps the answer to your question lies in the things that you have told me so many times in your posts to me when you were trying to help me. Just as we are all born into this world as sinners, all humans are fallible and imperfect. Your husband, your father, and myself are not special in this regard. I have always taken solice in your realization of this in particular as a person who has been betrayed in one of the worst ways. Just as we are fallible, it is not suprising that you find it difficult to forgive. Your husband has proven himself not worthy of your trust. If he is the person that you believe he is, he will not expect your trust and never again require it. The answer to your question is that you probably can't totally trust anyone because of the above. You can only hope that the love between the two of you can survive those fallibilities and imperfections. My faith in God is not what it should be and has been shaky at best lately, but I do believe that God is the only one deserving our total trust. What value does trust have? None, except in God. What God asks in return is that we forgive those that hurt us just as he forgives us regardless of what we deserve. Several times over the last few months, several people, and you in particular, have given me hope that I can again be a person worthy of respect of others. You gave me hope that I can again perhaps respect myself even though I am aware that my past actions are not deserving of that respect. You have given me a renewed faith in what can be good about mankind, while realizing that there is so much more that is evil. I will probably fail others in some way again and I am sure that the people closest to me will fail me as well. Just as you have found that trust in humans has very little value, forgiveness is no guarantee either. I have not even given my wife that opportunity, because of that fact. You forgiving your husband for what he has done is perhaps the greatest gift that one person could give another. An unselfish act of kindness that is not deserved. From what you tell of your husband, he will recognize this and it should come back to you in the form of his love and respect, but you should not expect this. You should forgive because it is the right thing to do regardless of your religious beliefs and regardless of whether he deserves it. However, if you fail to accomplish this, it will be nothing but another example of the fallibility and imperfection of another human being. Realize this. Your attempt to forgive your husband has earned my respect as I am sure it has a multitude of others. I just want you to realize what that says to me about you as a person. You are attempting to forgive him, while so many would not even entertain the idea. It has made me want to be a better person. If my respect doesn't mean anything, then I hope at least that makes you proud.
InferiorityComplex Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 My step father found out my mother was having an affair with a married man. None of us know how long it was going on for, but it tore our family apart. That was 2 years ago, and I hate my mother with such a passion that she could do that to our family...and for what?! A married 15 year older police officer with a wife and 2 daughters? She had 2 daughters at home she should have been spending time with and not neglecting. I don't know what could ever drive a person with a family to stray. She yells at me now saying, "what's wrong with me wanting to be happy!?" and I yell right back at her, "The fact that you had to hurt all of us to get it." What a selfish b**ch. I hope she marries this guy (he got divorced recently) and that he cheats on her. And that she ends up all alone and penniless...cause I'm suing her for all I think I'm owed. The scars are still fresh...but they'll last a lifetime!
Mr. Lucky Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 The scars are still fresh...but they'll last a lifetime! Again, only if you let them. You have a choice between defining yourself through the acts of others or through your own actions. Free will is a wonderful thing... Mr. Lucky
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