penelope12 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 hello, I am the OW, been with my MM for a little more than 3 years. I was married and living with my husband for the first 1 and 1/2 years of the affair. I left my marriage and have been going through a divorce for the last year. Since April of 2006, I have been faithful to my MM. MM is still living at home, but moved down the basement in May 2007 as a first step in separation from his wife. MM told me that he has not had any physical contact with his wife since he moved down the basement and that they are basically roomates. He has 2 young children. I love him very much but physically and emotionally cannot deal with him living in the same house anymore. I decided not to follow his rules anymore about when I can and can't call etc. He ended our relationship about a week ago because he said financially he is not in a position to leave now. I admit I am bitter, but what I am really struggling with now is that I want to know if I was lied to like he lied to his wife. The question I want answered is if he was really faithful to me for the last 8 months. I feel like I need this answer for my future. I want to know if the man I love looked me in the eye for the last 8 months and lied to me. I want to know if I was manipulated. I asked MM to call or text his wife infront of me and ask her how long it has been since they have slept together. He says he doesn't owe that to me. I guess I think that he does. I think he owes me the truth. I really need this answer to move on and don't know how else to get it other than asking his wife myself. Advice please. Thanks in advance.
PLAYBRAT Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Penelope...I think in your heart you know the answer to this Q. If this man was capable of lying to his wife for three years, and hiding the fact he slept with you...and he LIVED with her...what do you think? My answer? Yes He has probably lied to you. Lying to him probably comes as natural as breathing for him. That said...even if he DID lie, the A is over, what do you plan to do about it?
bentnotbroken Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 hello, I am the OW, been with my MM for a little more than 3 years. I was married and living with my husband for the first 1 and 1/2 years of the affair. I left my marriage and have been going through a divorce for the last year. Since April of 2006, I have been faithful to my MM. MM is still living at home, but moved down the basement in May 2007 as a first step in separation from his wife. MM told me that he has not had any physical contact with his wife since he moved down the basement and that they are basically roomates. He has 2 young children. I love him very much but physically and emotionally cannot deal with him living in the same house anymore. I decided not to follow his rules anymore about when I can and can't call etc. He ended our relationship about a week ago because he said financially he is not in a position to leave now. I admit I am bitter, but what I am really struggling with now is that I want to know if I was lied to like he lied to his wife. The question I want answered is if he was really faithful to me for the last 8 months. I feel like I need this answer for my future. I want to know if the man I love looked me in the eye for the last 8 months and lied to me. I want to know if I was manipulated. I asked MM to call or text his wife infront of me and ask her how long it has been since they have slept together. He says he doesn't owe that to me. I guess I think that he does. I think he owes me the truth. I really need this answer to move on and don't know how else to get it other than asking his wife myself. Advice please. Thanks in advance. I suspect he has been lying to you. But he is right he doesn't owe you anything, even the truth. You might assume that sense he lied to his wife, by cheating, he probably lying to you. IMHO
Author penelope12 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Hi Playbrat, I know the A is over, I guess I am hoping that he DIDN'T lie to me so that I don't doubt everything and everyone in my future. I guess in my heart though, I do have my answer, that he did lie. Just really don't want it to be true, because it taints all the good memories. If I don't have the man I love anymore, I at least wanted the memories to be the truth.
smartgirl Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I just posted something on the Infidelity forum that relates to this. My H of almost 30 years, the most honest person in the world I thought, lied to me during his A and for almost a year after. My beloved, idolized father kept a 15 year long affair going, making my mother a pathetic fool, which we discovered when he died unexpectedly. I felt that both of these men were far above average in ethics, honesty, integrity and love. So in answer to your question, yes, he may be lying. He may love you. But a person, or men, are capable of rationalizing all types of behaviors. They get carried away with their roles as breadwinner, caregiver, lover, provider, etc and then they think that they "need" to do certain things for "everyone's own good." Ok, it may actually be to cover their ass and keep all the balls in the air, but they don't see it that way in the desperation of the moment. They may be confused and they say what they need to say to keep their options open and to avoid hurting anyone ---- especially themselves. I would NEVER have believe my H was capable of lying to me the way he did. His OW was sure he would keep his promises to her, even as she listened to him lie to me. Strangely, he didn't actually see it as lying as much as "doing what he needed to do" to keep a lid on things. When you are in an affair, you are not truly rational. You are not making logical decisions, you are making emotional decisions and that may lead you to a place of convenience rather than honesty. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you. But it doesn't mean he doesn't love her either. He was in one place and you are hoping he will move to another. I personally think inertia wins out most often with men where emotions are involved.
PLAYBRAT Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I just posted something on the Infidelity forum that relates to this. My H of almost 30 years, the most honest person in the world I thought, lied to me during his A and for almost a year after. My beloved, idolized father kept a 15 year long affair going, making my mother a pathetic fool, which we discovered when he died unexpectedly. I felt that both of these men were far above average in ethics, honesty, integrity and love. So in answer to your question, yes, he may be lying. He may love you. But a person, or men, are capable of rationalizing all types of behaviors. They get carried away with their roles as breadwinner, caregiver, lover, provider, etc and then they think that they "need" to do certain things for "everyone's own good." Ok, it may actually be to cover their ass and keep all the balls in the air, but they don't see it that way in the desperation of the moment. They may be confused and they say what they need to say to keep their options open and to avoid hurting anyone ---- especially themselves. I would NEVER have believe my H was capable of lying to me the way he did. His OW was sure he would keep his promises to her, even as she listened to him lie to me. Strangely, he didn't actually see it as lying as much as "doing what he needed to do" to keep a lid on things. When you are in an affair, you are not truly rational. You are not making logical decisions, you are making emotional decisions and that may lead you to a place of convenience rather than honesty. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you. But it doesn't mean he doesn't love her either. He was in one place and you are hoping he will move to another. I personally think inertia wins out most often with men where emotions are involved. Very well put SM....I agree totally...
LoveAtLast Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I am not sure why you and MM got together in the first place, but if it was started sexually in the beginning and he has a high sex drive, it is not likely that he did not take advantage of an sexually available woman for 8 months. Men tend to have situation ethics when they get horny lol. ( I guess woman too sometimes) It would take a very strong love and commitment to make a man deny himself like that. Honestly, if he has gone so far as to call it off, let him go. Unless he has a soul felt committed love for you, it is not worth the mess of going through it. Believe me, I am in your situation right now. I essentially divorced my H for a MM (although I am glad I finally did it)...now am waiting for my MM to make his move. If I had any doubts about his love for me and total commitment, I would not go through this. But, true love is worth it. I can't give up true love and happiness for the rest of my life for a few months of loneliness and frustration. For you, if he says he 'doesn't owe it to you' to prove to you his faithfulness, then he probably really didn't care for you like he thought he did. If he did, he would want you to have peace, even if he couldn't be with you. Cry a little, then look in the mirror and tell yourself, you are a strong, beautiful woman. There is someone for YOU out there.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I admit I am bitter, but what I am really struggling with now is that I want to know if I was lied to like he lied to his wife. The question I want answered is if he was really faithful to me for the last 8 months. I asked MM to call or text his wife infront of me and ask her how long it has been since they have slept together. He says he doesn't owe that to me. I really need this answer to move on and don't know how else to get it other than asking his wife myself. Advice please. Thanks in advance. My advice: You don't need this answer to move on...You will never know the truth...Take what you can from the R and leave it in the past...Even if you could know, how would that help you for the future? If you really need an answer simply tell yourself yes he lied to me...He hasn't been sleeping in the basement and he has been having sex with his W...That is the worst case scenario and probably closest to the truth if he ended it with you... I think it's really out there that you would expect him to call his W in front of you and have her tell you no they hadn't had sex in however long...That is not a normal thing to expect your BF/MM to do...I would quite frankly be insulted if someone ever asked me to do that, whether I had anything to hide or not... I think he quite possibly called it off with you because of you calling his house and your request...It's borderline stalkerish... Please, just chalk it up to life experience and go about your life...You deserve much more than he was willing to give you... GEL
Author penelope12 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 Hi GEL, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't want to have him call her so that I could talk to her, I just wanted to hear her reply. I also only call his cell phone. I don't want to involve his W, this is not her fault, she has been lied to for 3 years. I only wanted to know if he had done the same to me. I appreciate your advice.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Hi GEL, I just wanted to clarify that I didn't want to have him call her so that I could talk to her, I just wanted to hear her reply. I also only call his cell phone. I don't want to involve his W, this is not her fault, she has been lied to for 3 years. I only wanted to know if he had done the same to me. I appreciate your advice. There's no way he could do that without her wondering WTH he's doing...Your spouse wouldn't just call you up one day and ask, "Honey, so how many months has it been since we had sex?" See what I mean? I hope that you are able to get past this and make your own closure...In these types of situations that's the only thing you can do...
nextel Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) I have heard so many times women seeking closure, the truth, relief etc etc (myself included). The truth of the matter is this, if it is not sitting right inside your mind, body, heart and soul.....then something is wrong. I don't know how openly you and him dated. I don't know whether or not you did hang out with friends. I dont know if he ever offered to be there for you whatever the time of the day maybe or whether or not you were ever permitted to call him whenever you chose to. I dont know if you ever planned to have a family together or whether or not you spent the holidays or nights together. I dont know the extent of your interaction. These are questions that only you have answers to. All I have to say to you is this and take this kindly as I don't mean to belittle you or your intelligence..... We all have clues, hear little voices inside of us but we refuse to see what is in front of us or listen to the voice inside of us. Seems to me you have resolved to accepting that your A is over, so there is no point in knowing whether or not he was sleeping with his W. And even if he is/was, thats his W. Maybe he lied to you, maybe he did not lie to you. Maybe he loves you , maybe he never did. Maybe he was passing time and trying to wake things up in his home, and maybe he was not. Whatever the case, bump it. Thats life, you live and you learn. At the end of the day, we are each responsible for our own happiness. Good luck. Edited January 21, 2008 by nextel
OpenBook Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Penelope, he probably did lie to you. All men lie to women. That does NOT mean that what he felt for you wasn't real to him. And yes, he was probably having sex with his W while he was seeing you. He's a man. MM's who are cheating on their W's are typically very confused, and they can't make a firm decision to save their lives! He was a very risky bet for you. If I were you, I'd be glad you don't have to deal with that mess anymore. And it is irrelevant whether he "owes" you the truth or not. He doesn't feel compelled to tell you. That (to me) tells a woman everything she needs to know. That is a loud-and-clear message from him, along with his breaking it off with you, that he doesn't have a high enough opinion of you to at least ATTEMPT to treat you well. It's time for you to walk briskly away. Who needs it?!?
Leia Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Of course he lied to you! No men or women in affairs are honest. Little while lies or not, they are still lies.
Meaplus3 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 hello, I am the OW, been with my MM for a little more than 3 years. I was married and living with my husband for the first 1 and 1/2 years of the affair. I left my marriage and have been going through a divorce for the last year. Since April of 2006, I have been faithful to my MM. MM is still living at home, but moved down the basement in May 2007 as a first step in separation from his wife. MM told me that he has not had any physical contact with his wife since he moved down the basement and that they are basically roomates. He has 2 young children. I love him very much but physically and emotionally cannot deal with him living in the same house anymore. I decided not to follow his rules anymore about when I can and can't call etc. He ended our relationship about a week ago because he said financially he is not in a position to leave now. I admit I am bitter, but what I am really struggling with now is that I want to know if I was lied to like he lied to his wife. The question I want answered is if he was really faithful to me for the last 8 months. I feel like I need this answer for my future. I want to know if the man I love looked me in the eye for the last 8 months and lied to me. I want to know if I was manipulated. I asked MM to call or text his wife infront of me and ask her how long it has been since they have slept together. He says he doesn't owe that to me. I guess I think that he does. I think he owes me the truth. I really need this answer to move on and don't know how else to get it other than asking his wife myself. Advice please. Thanks in advance. penelope, Faithful to you for the last 8 month's while still living at his home? My guess would be NO! I'm pretty darn certain that if he was capable of lying to his W for so long then he more than likely has been lying to you. Think about it? If I were you I would not waste any more time on him. you deserve a man that can give his all to you. I Would suggest you move on, the sooner the better. Good Luck. AP:)
imstunned Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Hi Playbrat, I know the A is over, I guess I am hoping that he DIDN'T lie to me so that I don't doubt everything and everyone in my future. I guess in my heart though, I do have my answer, that he did lie. Just really don't want it to be true, because it taints all the good memories. If I don't have the man I love anymore, I at least wanted the memories to be the truth. I was lied to by my ex about everything. I didnt know he was even married until 8 months in. he had a whole fake life for me. Its well and truly messed with my head and broke my heart clean in two. However - though our relationship was enabled by his lies, I try not to allow them to affect my memories. In my eyes my memories and the time WE spent together are the only truth I really have. It is only the TIME we spent together that was real, its just that everything else was a lie. It may sound like a loopy way of thinking about things, but its the only way I can without cracking up. The man I loved truly didnt exist but the time we had toghether did. It dosent really matter if your man lied, if you find out that he lied, or never find the truth. It wont ever affect the time that you spent together. How can it. those moments are locked away in your memory now and nothing should touch them. Truly, If I can think of things this way (and I'm sure everyone here will think I'm barking mad) then you can too. xx
JamesM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I guess I am puzzled how someone can be concerned about a MM being faithful when the whole basis of the affair is one of unfaithfulness. I wonder how you can actually believe that you are so unique that he will lie in front of your face to the woman to whom he promised honesty and fidelity , and yet he will swear that he is telling YOU the truth. I personally feel it is unfair of you to expect him to remain faithful to you while he has already shown that he can lie and be unfaithful to his wife. My point is that affairs are based on lies. To be concerned whether he lied to you when you know he lied to her is quite ironic. His reason for an affair was to avoid the confrontation of fixing his marriage. His goal was not to find another woman with whom he can spend the future. If you had asked this question regarding a man who was single and who dated you, then it is relevant. But IMO, you had a relationship based on secrecy and lies with a man who promised to be faithful to his wife...but wasn't. This means that fidelity and honesty are not part of this picture. Be thankful your affair is over. Now for the future. You cheated, he cheated. You are going to meet new men and date. Will you remain faithful to them even when the marriage (possible) gets rough and difficult? Will you choose men who can be honest to you and be faithful to yo?
frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I admit I am bitter, but what I am really struggling with now is that I want to know if I was lied to like he lied to his wife. The question I want answered is if he was really faithful to me for the last 8 months. I feel like I need this answer for my future. I want to know if the man I love looked me in the eye for the last 8 months and lied to me. I want to know if I was manipulated. I asked MM to call or text his wife infront of me and ask her how long it has been since they have slept together. He says he doesn't owe that to me. I guess I think that he does. I think he owes me the truth. I really need this answer to move on and don't know how else to get it other than asking his wife myself. Advice please. Thanks in advance. I think that it was too much to ask for him to call her in front of you and arrange a conversation so that you could know 'the truth', so I don't think you can take much from that about the truth or lack of it regarding whether they had sex. However, from the way you say he talks to you, I would take a guess that he has been lying to you. As others have said, his manner with your suggests that he does not respect or care very much... do you get that feeling too..? I understand why you feel you need this sorted out in your mind. Of course it is important to know, in retrospect, whether someone could lie to our faces, and how we can be deceived. It is vital to learn this in life, a very sad lesson, but one that is true... people can and will lie to us if they feel they need to. Sometimes there will be NO way of us knowing the real truth in a situation. And part of life's lesson is learning when it is, and when it isn't important to know for certain... When it is better to walk away, when it is OK to trust, and when it isn't. It's a hard road to walk down... we all want to believe that we can not only tell liars apart, but we can safeguard ourselves, and that it is safe to trust. After being involved with a liar, I learnt this: that the person you can trust most in the world is yourself. Be strong enough to believe, people can lie to you... don't blindly ingore your gut feelings. But at the same time know that whatever happens, you can trust this: you can get through whatever life throws at you. Even being involved with an out and out liar. I guess I am puzzled how someone can be concerned about a MM being faithful when the whole basis of the affair is one of unfaithfulness. I wonder how you can actually believe that you are so unique that he will lie in front of your face to the woman to whom he promised honesty and fidelity , and yet he will swear that he is telling YOU the truth. I guess this is down to this fact: in general, people don't make a habit of lying to all comers all of the time. Even someone who lies in one situation will not lie across the board just because it is possible. What would be the reason for that? People lie for reasons, not for the fun of it (although of course there are some people who find lying in itself fun). That said, yes, of course many men will lie in affairs, the reason being to circumnavigate the morals or emotional sensitivities of the women they are lying to.
JamesM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I guess this is down to this fact: in general, people don't make a habit of lying to all comers all of the time. Even someone who lies in one situation will not lie across the board just because it is possible. What would be the reason for that? People lie for reasons, not for the fun of it (although of course there are some people who find lying in itself fun). That said, yes, of course many men will lie in affairs, the reason being to circumnavigate the morals or emotional sensitivities of the women they are lying to. I agree. I guess I wonder how the OW in any affair can "demand" fidelity and honesty as part of the relationship when it is based on infidelity and dishonesty. This is not to be critical of OWs or MMs. But is this a realistic expectation...out of dishonesty and infidelity will come honesty and fidelity?
frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) I agree. I guess I wonder how the OW in any affair can "demand" fidelity and honesty as part of the relationship when it is based on infidelity and dishonesty. This is not to be critical of OWs or MMs. But is this a realistic expectation...out of dishonesty and infidelity will come honesty and fidelity? I don't believe that anyone can demand fidelity and honesty from any other person, neither OW nor wife. Yes, we can hope for it, we can ask for it, and they can promise it, and we can leave them if the can't or won't deliver. But demand it? Time and again we see that this is a futile exercise. Edited January 21, 2008 by frannie adding
torranceshipman Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Cmon...he was living in the same house as his W for the last 8 months, never let you have his landline and ended it with you when you called him at slightly inconvenient times. He wasn't in the basement - he's been living with his W - as H and W ~(ie sharing a bed) - as normal - the whole time. I am sure you already know this in your heart of hearts. I am sure he loves you and his W - but he also lies to you both and in doing so, disrespects you both. So remember the nice memories but this needn't color your future relationships negatively - just make sure that all future relationships involve single guys for a start!! - lets face it, the fact he was married and cheating on his W in the first place when you met him was a pretty good indication he is one of lifes snakes and less able to be trusted than most of the guys you are going to meet in the future! If it really gets you down tell the W cause she also deserves to know what a loser she is married to. I bet she'll be very interested to hear the 'i've been in the basement for 8 months' story too, lol! Less 'husband in the basement' and more 'troll living under the stairs'if you ask me! You deserve a lot better girl - stop wasting your life with this loser.
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